View Full Version : Which turntable to upgrade
ekymetal
28-09-2014, 23:13
Hi all
I have these 4 turntables,and am wondering which one to spend some money on.
And what you think would be an affordable upgrade.
All are in original condition.
Please bear in mind i have house payments and a 19 yo daughter at uni.
I posted this in a local forum,and all i got was there crap sell them all and buy something better.
This was not much help,i know some of you on here have amazing setups,but this is out of my reach.
I am hoping with all your years of experience, you have some advise as what to do next.
The luxman i have had for over 20 years so its special to me.
I will post some pictures of them.
Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.
Thanks and cheers
Scott
The turntables are as follows
Luxman PD277
Thorens TD160
Thorens TD166
AR XB
13269132701327113272
Keep the Luxman. Get a good cartridge, mat, and try sorbothane feet. That's the one I'd keep.
I've had a Thorens 166, it's a very nice deck, with a very average arm.
I'm not much of a fan of the AR.
If you really wanted the most sizzle for the cash outlay, sell the other 3, and spend that on a really top-flight cartridge.
Firebottle
29-09-2014, 06:20
That Luxman is by far the best looking, without knowing the characteristics I'd keep that one on looks alone :stalks:
:cool: Alan
Hi Scott
This is what I would do:
First you want to find out which platter has the best speed.
A DIY strobe will assist in this. You can download a strobe for a smartphone and use that in conjunction with a DIY mat. Even better there are smartphone apps that will tell you the frequency the source is producing and using that in conjunction with a test record can give you a good indication of speed accuracy (and wow & flutter).
Second, try to gauge the quality of the bearing.
Have a very close listen - ie your ear an inch away from the bearing - You have the TT switched on and rotating but not playing anything. If you hear a rumble you discard that one. Likewise try to have a feel of the bearing by rotating it with your fingers. If you feel coarseness then again that would be one to discard. In a similar vein you may be able to visually inspect the bearing by taking things apart.
Third, just play a few tracks that you are very familiar with, some simple music, say solo piano. Do this with each of the TTs in turn. Maybe do a shootout between A&B, pick a winner. Then A&C, pick a winner. Then B&C ... you get the idea.
Then do the same with a track that has some serious bass - get Jennifer Warne's album The Hunter and play 'Way Down Deep'.
Hopefully your ear will give you a preference.
Fourth, there are still other variables of course, such as the relative quality of the belts, vibration isolation, (different) cartridges having different synergy with particular tonearms and the like. You just have to make allowance and exercise your judgment as best you can.
With a lot of work and a bit of luck your empirical test results, albeit not particularly scientific, will all point in the same direction. Hint: At all stages use 19 year old ears if you can - they are better than yours!
Hope that helps.
Wakefield Turntables
29-09-2014, 08:29
Do you have an emotional attachment to any of them? If not sell them.
Does one sound better than the others? If so keep that and use the money you make from selling the others and upgrade it.
The Luxman is a good deck. Has a dc motor and a separate motor for the auto arm function. Has pitch control etc. Were quite highly rated as well, think the arm requires a high comliance cart but is maybe the nicest deck youve got and only really needs a cart. The 160 is the one that you could do most with, depending on what you want to do.
Gordon Steadman
29-09-2014, 10:10
Luxman:)
Do you have an emotional attachment to any of them? If not sell them.
+1. Unless there exists such an attachment and/or you really like one of them specifically, then sell all three and put the money towards one high-quality T/T.
My advice would be to go for a good vintage idler or direct-drive T/T (say, Lenco/Garrard or Technics/Pioneer that in reality will significantly outperform all three of your current T/Ts, which sonically, are ‘ok but nothing special’, including the Luxman, albeit it does look nice.
Quality should always be more important than quantity, so scale down your collection and max-out on the former! :)
Marco.
Paul Lange
29-09-2014, 11:28
Its hard to say but does the Luxman have better build quality than the others? I suspect that it might.
Gordon Steadman
29-09-2014, 12:04
Its hard to say but does the Luxman have better build quality than the others? I suspect that it might.
Possibly but it looks by far the best and thats what matter after all:eyebrows:
Beobloke
29-09-2014, 12:08
Listen to all four.
Keep the one you like the sound of most.
Mr Kipling
29-09-2014, 19:11
Listen to all four.
Keep all four.
Buy a fifth.
Sell all four and all of your records:eek:
trio leo
30-09-2014, 09:48
I too would go for the Luxman, excellent build quality, sounds very good with the right arm and cartridge, lastly, it looks well.
enjoy your music :)
Al
trio leo
30-09-2014, 09:51
Twotone said "sell all four and your records" :steam:
can we send that big orange ball from the Prisoner to get him?
Al
Yeah, that was a strange one, Tony…. What gives, dude? :scratch:
Marco.
The Luxmans were a mugs eyeful and not always very solid under the bling top plates.... Some were though, but the Japs were very good at making a pigs ear look fantastic, so be warned. They do look good though :)
The TD166 is nowhere near as good as the 160 if it was fitted with the plastic inner hub. Get rid!
The TD160 is nice and the massy headshell will work with some good modern cartridges these days. The Denon DL110 should be good to go I reckon. The earthing and exit cables should be looked at though, as the deck is earthed via the signal screens, which isn't ideal IMO. A new beefy rubber mat is mandatory IMO as this fleshes out the sonics. The existing mat isn't very good in terms of vinyl support. The TD160 Super mat sometimes comes up and I remember the Avon mat being good for this deck too. We also sold loads of the Dumpa 'squidgy' mat but I have to say I didn't care overmuch for these.
The AR should be KEPT!!!!!!!!!!!!! This one spawned all the springy belt drives out there, I believe belts are available and a low mass mat should transform it further IMO. The arm looks to be a dogs dinner, but all the design and bearing compromises it has actually made for a very stable carrier of 1.25g trackers like Shure 'ED' models (you need to be careful when dressing the exposed arm wires) as the arm friction added a form of damping to the proceedings; It sounded amazing with the ADC XLM II I remember. A lovely and highly 'neutral' sounding turntable if the arm and cartridge are set up right and potentially the best of all four!
As for getting something better, you're going to have to look far higher and possibly to a vintage technics (top range models only), PL71 and Sony 6750 for example. I still haven't done anything with my own TD160 despite a 'Super' plinth and mat, so can't tell you if it can sound as good or better than a TD125 for example (mk2 TD125's had slop in the main bearing quite often, but a viscous sticky oil can deal with that and engine re-assembly lube has been suggested as a benign choice, although I've always used UK sourced EP80 or EP90 with no long term issues due to additives).
Beobloke
30-09-2014, 11:53
Listen to all four.
Keep all four.
Buy a fifth.
:lol:
You're quite right of course. Ignore my ridiculous advice above!
Yeah, that was a strange one, Tony…. What gives, dude? :scratch:
Marco.
I think he was just ensuring that the o/p received the full spectrum of advice ;)
Perhaps, Martin, but I also noticed that Tony offered his turntable recently to someone in the classifieds section, looking for a Techy, indicating that he’s fallen out of love with vinyl and/or the Techy, or perhaps both…..
Marco.
Well, it does happen on occasion...if I didn't have so much vinyl and if some of it wasn't personal to me I would probably get rid too.
Sure, but it just seemed a bit sudden. Anyway, we’ll find out what the score is when Tony responds :)
Marco.
Yeah, that was a strange one, Tony…. What gives, dude? :scratch:
Marco.
T'was only a joke Marco, chill dude:D
Perhaps, Martin, but I also noticed that Tony offered his turntable recently to someone in the classifieds section, looking for a Techy, indicating that he’s fallen out of love with vinyl and/or the Techy, or perhaps both…..
Marco.
Aux contraire mon amis, just fancy a change, sometimes with me it's a pure impulse.
I bought a new (sh) amp on Friday and flogged my Brio R last night so now thinking about either flogging the new amp which is an XTZ A100D3 integrated (weighs a bleeding ton) and buying something else or flogging my speakers (JR149s) which sound okay but with the new amp you really need to crank up the volume to hear the speaks and I'm frightened I overload them?
Also quite fancy a 'new-ish' nice looking and sounding TT but not a belt drive, quite fancy a Garrard of some description but I hate the 'home made' plinths most of them are in.
Apols for going off topic OP.
I think he was just ensuring that the o/p received the full spectrum of advice ;)
Indeed Martin, I'm quite the contrary cnut sometimes:eek:
Let's be honest though, vinyl and vinyl replay ain't a cheap pastime is it?
Aux contraire mon amis, just fancy a change, sometimes with me it's a pure impulse.
Also quite fancy a 'new-ish' nice looking and sounding TT but not a belt drive, quite fancy a Garrard of some description but I hate the 'home made' plinths most of them are in.
Lol - that’s where we’re very different then, dude. The only stuff I buy on impulse are cables or ancillary items (and music). Any other changes to my system are very carefully planned and thoroughly researched (hence why I make few mistakes and stick with the same kit for years). I’d probably be more inclined to lose a limb than sell my beloved Techy or vinyl collection! :eek:
Besides, if you move yer Tecko on, how are we going to carry out the T/T comparison we’ve scheduled when I pop up to Glasgow in a few weeks? ;)
Marco.
Lol - that’s where we’re very different then, dude. The only stuff I buy on impulse are cables or ancillary items (and music). Any other changes to my system are very carefully planned and thoroughly researched (hence why I make few mistakes and stick with the same kit for years). I’d probably be more inclined to lose a limb than sell my beloved Techy or vinyl collection! :eek:
Besides, if you move yer Tecko on, how are we going to carry out the T/T comparison we’ve scheduled when I pop up to Glasgow in a few weeks? ;)
No worries Marco, can't see me getting back the dosh that I've spent on the Techie anytime soon so it ain't going anywhere soon plus it really does sound fantastic to my ears and I doubt I would get anything better for the dough however I would like something a bit more ascetic looking being completely honest.
Mr Kipling
02-10-2014, 22:35
I've often wondered what the thinking behind the headshell on the AR was - unless it was cost. The last incarnation was the "fishtail" on the 77XB and totally lacked the rigidity of the original. It's said (even by AR employees) that the later versions of the original deck aren't as good as the original. I'd put this down simply to the headshell, which I'd say is the weakest part of the arm, which I'd say is better than it may look. Years ago I replaced the headshell on an XA with an ADC LMG one to very good effect.
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