View Full Version : mordaunt-short pageant 2
hi,
i saw these local to me on ebay for £50,i jumped on them!
lovely sound and in fantastic condition,i fear my ditton 15xr's are going in the cupboard!
they even came with the original bill of sale too,£129.90 in 1978.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/michaelcaine22/20140928_205139_LLS.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/michaelcaine22/20140928_205230_LLS.jpg
Trickie_Dickie
28-09-2014, 20:26
Got 2 pairs myself. Paid £150 for the first pair at Laskey's Slough early 80s. Second pair was under £50 last year. Very pleased with them.
laskeys now theres a blast from the past! out of interest what postion did you find best for the toggle switches at the back?
Funny finding this thread today, just finished yesterday recaping my mint pair. They are possibly my favorite speakers among 7 or 8 pairs that I have, they just do everything right to my ears (and room acoustics) even at very low volume! I have both switches usually on the level setting.
These sing easily at 10 times the actual going rate!
hi,
i saw these local to me on ebay for £50,i jumped on them!
lovely sound and in fantastic condition,i fear my ditton 15xr's are going in the cupboard!
they even came with the original bill of sale too,£129.90 in 1978.
]
According to an inflation calculator £129.90 is a staggering £705.42 in today's currency.
walpurgis
29-09-2014, 10:35
According to an inflation calculator £129.90 is a staggering £705.42 in today's currency.
Today, I reckon that would be about right for a very good modern medium compact speaker.
walpurgis
29-09-2014, 10:39
i fear my ditton 15xr's are going in the cupboard!
Not surprising. I've owned both and I know which I'd favour. Everybody should try a pair of Pageant IIs at some time. In the right room and system they can sound sublime.
Today, I reckon that would be about right for a very good modern medium compact speaker.
Kef LS50 (for example) are around £799 so yes, pretty much spot on.
Paul Lange
29-09-2014, 11:22
The old MS speakers are things that I rate highly, the budget models too (not that these are). I bought a pair of the latter MS15s years ago and they were pretty good for a budget speaker. £5.88 on ebay, great for the spare room. Only dumped them because some monsters that shall remain unnamed poked the tweeters out.
istari_knight
29-09-2014, 11:37
I never really got on with any of them, Carnival II was mildly entertaining in a small bedroom system but overall just not to my taste. If they do it for you then ideal :thumbsup:
This may be of interest ?
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/PG_zps875bde47.png
Taken from the last pair I had... I've had a few :rolleyes:
little update,
sent off my crossovers to paul to recap and rewire them,he confirmed all caps were way out of spec so cant wait to try the new ones out.
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj548/jamiecreig123/_MG_9147_zpsd410dac6.jpg
istari_knight
10-01-2015, 14:58
:popcorn:
Just put them in.
Where to start?
ABSOLUTELY BLOODY AMAZING difference,and i thought they sounded good before!
Paul has done fantastic work as far as im concerned,its like a veil has been lifted from them,high end is so much better and clearer.mid end is better as is the bass.i must admit to being skeptical, as in the past i had someone recap my ditton 15xr's, the result sounded flat but these pageants have responded much more then my expectations .
I truly know now why these humble little speakers are highly regarded on AOS.
Great work Paul,thanks so much.
istari_knight
10-01-2015, 16:45
Result :thumbsup:
brian2957
11-01-2015, 14:03
Paul at RFC is the man to go to if you want speaker work done . He made a cracking job of the crossovers in my Rega speakers and he's a true gent into the bargain :)
The Barbarian
13-01-2015, 22:27
Great speakers.. however i would have scrapped the switches & the three legged inductors..fitted plain circular terminal pods in place..
Paul at RFC is the man to go to if you want speaker work done . He made a cracking job of the crossovers in my Rega speakers and he's a true gent into the bargain :)
He's the man, Man :eyebrows:
2 years on from buying the first pair and then selling them when i bought the ditton 66's i dug out my spares and bought a pair of tweeters to make up another pair of pageants.
Ive just recapped the crossovers and id forgotten just how good these little speakers are.
Im listening in the nearfield postion,something i cant do with the 66's due to the room layout.
They use an isophon tweeter and the highly regarded Mordaunt-Short DSB 208 bass/mid driver.
If you have a small room give them a try,they don't fetch much these days,why i dont know??
the ns1000's are going to be recapped soon,whilst this is going on i'll be using my old pageants,listening to them now they still sound good even after the yammy's.
the pageants were recapped some time ago,wadding removed and 5mm steel plate added to the cab walls.
https://i.postimg.cc/SKwp53fG/IMG_2651_1.jpg
mightymonoped
01-10-2018, 19:44
Not surprising. I've owned both and I know which I'd favour. Everybody should try a pair of Pageant IIs at some time. In the right room and system they can sound sublime.
About time the old MS got some of the appreciation they are due I reckon? I really don’t understand why they seem to be so overlooked.
As you say, in the right room and a sympathetic system they are just magical.
In my current flat setup these are giving me everything I need. They get better with every source upgrade so far (and they love EL84s)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181001/caa46a80f29ae42eff8487f3b3424ef3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181001/fe32f86b4a84ebf79aabfd53dec53dd2.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sherwood
01-10-2018, 19:48
hi,
i saw these local to me on ebay for £50,i jumped on them!
lovely sound and in fantastic condition,i fear my ditton 15xr's are going in the cupboard!
they even came with the original bill of sale too,£129.90 in 1978.
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/michaelcaine22/20140928_205139_LLS.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a195/michaelcaine22/20140928_205230_LLS.jpg
I was considering buying these myself around that time. In the end I went for a pair of Rogers LS3/5a's. I still have the receipt for these. Surprisingly, the Rogers were not that much more expensive: 150 quid.
In current terms, the Pageants would be well over a grand!
Geoff
Had a pair when I was at uni in 1979!
They were good.....
nostalgia!
Philberish
04-10-2018, 19:29
Hi all.
Lovely to see MS Pageant 2s getting some praise (and the Signifer a few topics down). Anyway, I was part of the MS design team from 1980 to late 1987. Happy to answer any 80s Mordaunt-Short questions if I can.
Phil
Hi, what model replaced the pageant and signifer?
Lawrence001
05-10-2018, 06:53
There was that semi open frame floorstander I forget the model but it was the top one in the mid to late 80s I think?
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Philberish
05-10-2018, 08:12
The Pageant 2 was replaced by the Pageant 3. Not nearly so well known or respected and a bit of a commercial flop. Much taller and narrower than the P2 and fabric covered apart from a veneered top. MS and KEF discovered at about the same time that customers didn't really like fabric covered speakers. P3 was three-way – DSB208 bass driver, Audax mid and Audax TW74 tweeter. Nothing really replaced the Signifer until System 442 (named after a match ball winning raffle ticket at Tottenham) launched in '86 (I reckon the last Signifer would have been made in about '83).
P
walpurgis
05-10-2018, 08:28
I remember the 442. I saw and heard them at an audio show when they were released. Funny looking things, can't say they left much of an impression, 'cos I don't remember what they sounded like. Celestion also introduced a model named 442 at around the same time (Ditton 442), you don't see many of those about either.
I seem to recall seeing the then new Roksan Darius speaker at the same show. What a horrible thing they were, nearly as grim as the Naim SBL :).
It wasn't all bad back then. The Spendor S100 was a glorious sounding speaker.
Philberish
05-10-2018, 08:52
I remember the 442. I saw and heard them at an audio show when they were released. Funny looking things, can't say they left much of an impression, 'cos I don't remember what they sounded like. Celestion also introduced a model named 442 at around the same time (Ditton 442), you don't see many of those about either.
I seem to recall seeing the then new Roksan Darius speaker at the same show. What a horrible thing they were, nearly as grim as the Naim SBL :).
It wasn't all bad back then. The Spendor S100 was a glorious sounding speaker.
Well we got some pretty good reviews with the 442 but it wasn't an easy sell what with its weight, looks and transit screws. It needed a big room too and that look was decidedly "Marmite" – especially after an expensive London design consultancy got asked to help (I remember a colleague at MS describing the cabinet as looking like a child's coffin. That was nice). A bigger problem though was that the UK sales guy had a back problem and struggled to get 442s out of his car and into dealers. He was much happier demoing MS20s.
Yeah the Darius was an odd one. One of the first with a decoupled tweeter though. And most Spendors are glorious (although the BC1 I always thought was overrated). Spencer Hughes' son Derek is currently doing all the design work at Graham Audio - the new LS3 is a lovely little box. We'll have to disagree on the SBL (you know it had basically the same bass/mid driver as the Pageant 2?), but then I had many good times at Naim so I'm a b it biased in its favour.
P
walpurgis
05-10-2018, 09:04
I went to another show with a friend who was a big Linn/Naim devotee and spent many thousands on their gear. He was keen to hear the SBL's. His only comment after listening to them was "oh dear". And this was from a bloke who was using Linn Saras of all things :D.
Mind you, I wasn't too sure about his ears. He went on to pair a set of the very first Acoustic Energy AE1's with two Naim 135's and matching pre-amp. You could strip the wallpaper off with the resuliting sound :eek:.
. A bigger problem though was that the UK sales guy had a back problem and struggled to get 442s out of his car and into dealers. He was much happier demoing MS20s.
It's funny how the little things like that which are never anticipated and won't show up on the accountant's spreadsheet can make one hell of a difference.
Philberish
05-10-2018, 10:16
The old MS speakers are things that I rate highly, the budget models too (not that these are). I bought a pair of the latter MS15s years ago and they were pretty good for a budget speaker. £5.88 on ebay, great for the spare room. Only dumped them because some monsters that shall remain unnamed poked the tweeters out.
It's funny how the little things like that which are never anticipated and won't show up on the accountant's spreadsheet can make one hell of a difference.
Yeah, funny now, but as the designer of the damn thing, I don't remember laughter being my response at the time :-)
Yeah, funny now, but as the designer of the damn thing, I don't remember laughter being my response at the time :-)
Lol. IME a reps main task is to make life as easy for himself as possible, selling comes a distant second.
57charles
05-10-2018, 17:05
I remember the 442. I saw and heard them at an audio show when they were released. Funny looking things, can't say they left much of an impression, 'cos I don't remember what they sounded like. Celestion also introduced a model named 442 at around the same time (Ditton 442), you don't see many of those about either.
I seem to recall seeing the then new Roksan Darius speaker at the same show. What a horrible thing they were, nearly as grim as the Naim SBL :).
It wasn't all bad back then. The Spendor S100 was a glorious sounding speaker.
Don't know where Walpurgis gets his info from but I used to sell 442's (and 551's and 662's) from their introduction in 1979 onwards - years before that MS 442.
walpurgis
05-10-2018, 17:22
Don't know where Walpurgis gets his info from but I used to sell 442's (and 551's and 662's) from their introduction in 1979 onwards - years before that MS 442.
So what's a few years in the dim haze of the past? It seemed around the same time to me.
57charles
05-10-2018, 19:19
So what's a few years in the dim haze of the past? It seemed around the same time to me.
I've seen you correct people for a lot less 'insignificance'- Celestion moved on to the 44 series 2 after the 442 for your information.
walpurgis
05-10-2018, 19:28
I've seen you correct people for a lot less 'insignificance'
Care to cite an instance?
57charles
05-10-2018, 19:32
Care to cite an instance?
I'm not prepared to get into a 'slanging match' with you in spite of your best efforts.
walpurgis
05-10-2018, 19:35
You have me a bit baffled.
57charles
05-10-2018, 19:39
You have me a bit baffled.
Whatever.
Well we got some pretty good reviews with the 442 but it wasn't an easy sell what with its weight, looks and transit screws. It needed a big room too and that look was decidedly "Marmite" – especially after an expensive London design consultancy got asked to help (I remember a colleague at MS describing the cabinet as looking like a child's coffin. That was nice). A bigger problem though was that the UK sales guy had a back problem and struggled to get 442s out of his car and into dealers. He was much happier demoing MS20s.
Yeah the Darius was an odd one. One of the first with a decoupled tweeter though. And most Spendors are glorious (although the BC1 I always thought was overrated). Spencer Hughes' son Derek is currently doing all the design work at Graham Audio - the new LS3 is a lovely little box. We'll have to disagree on the SBL (you know it had basically the same bass/mid driver as the Pageant 2?), but then I had many good times at Naim so I'm a b it biased in its favour.
P
I've had two pairs of SBLs, the first I bought new in the late 1980s, I had a Linn/Naim set up then and I loved the sound from them. I went to work for Harbeth in the early 1990s and moved the SBLs on in favour of the then brand new Harbeth HL Compact 7 which I kept for over 20 years. I fancied revisiting the SBL so bought a pair in need of new gaskets which I replaced but just couldn't get them to sound right, lovely top end as the Scanspeak tweeters had mellowed with time but the bass was very weak and no matter what I did or where I placed them I couldn't get on with the sound so I sold them and went back to the Harbeths. Then Jamie decided to sell his Signifers, he bought them over here so I could hear them at home, he was quite happy to take them back but I was sold on them straight away and won't be parting with them. Cheers Sir James :D
Jac Hawk
07-10-2018, 16:36
I must admit I’ve never owned a bad pair of Mordaunt Short speakers, they don’t seem to hold their value as well as their peers and as others have said in the right location with the right kit can punch well above their weight
Emmett123
06-12-2022, 23:26
Would anybody know the values of the inductors on the Pageant 2 crossover. A pair I picked up recently have some burned / melted inductors for the treble in both speakers. Looking at a complete crossover rebuild. I cant find any info on what type inductors are used. The woofer ones seem to be still working fine.
Philberish
07-12-2022, 07:29
Hi Emmett,
I was a design engineer at MS in the early 80s and, sadly, I can remember the Pageant 2 inductor values. The HF is 0.225mH and the LF is 1.5mH with a switched tap for 1.0mH. I knew there must be a reason why I’ve remembered that all these years. Maybe I’ll be able to forget now.
Hope you get the Pageants back up and running (careful with those Isophon tweeters - they’re a bit delicate and irreplaceable).
Cheers
Phil
walpurgis
07-12-2022, 07:33
Would anybody know the values of the inductors on the Pageant 2 crossover. A pair I picked up recently have some burned / melted inductors for the treble in both speakers. Looking at a complete crossover rebuild. I cant find any info on what type inductors are used. The woofer ones seem to be still working fine.
I have never seen melted inductors. Are you sure they are inductors you are looking at? I've seen failed or overheated resistors and capacitors, do you have a photo?
The crossovers shouldn't be difficult to repair or replace as suitable components should be available. They are decent speakers and certainly worth the effort.
karma1967
07-12-2022, 10:32
i have a spare pair of x-overs if you need them?
https://i.imgur.com/4qEnz1L.jpg
walpurgis
07-12-2022, 10:52
In case anybody is not sure which components are which in Jamie's photos.
The black top left items are wire-wound resistors, the red is an inductor, the green is a tapped inductor and the Elcaps are the capacitors.
I'd replace the Elcaps as a matter of course as they are old and they can be replaced cheaply with Alcap items or something fancier if desired.
The inductors and resistors are probably fine.
karma1967
07-12-2022, 11:22
there are loads of threads about the pagaents,lots have replaced the caps as i did.
i never did the inductors but knowing how much new larger inductors improved my ns1000's i reckon they would be on my to do list if i ever revisted the pagaents again.
Emmett123
07-12-2022, 21:49
https://scontent.fbhd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318022685_1236819400515141_7663109910587654592_n.j pg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=jmw7D5B5_DcAX-YptoG&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhd1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDsQpvW_2CZBG_Re5gtzyOk723rdyAdWjBrP6BdnHCt CA&oe=63950C0A
https://scontent.fbhd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318143312_1236818347181913_1394865007188662584_n.j pg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ve4CpkN74NIAX_HOMX7&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhd1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAsbu2ZK7CoVHsfHavinFHXdOz2GWOEkhFUUmjCKlx1 tQ&oe=63960FFB
https://scontent.fbhd1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318505100_1236818017181946_8312463948945842573_n.j pg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WpqqIke6kcoAX8Dtv2b&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhd1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBQyrs3Bri8zUgGcGeXdDNbJEBTmqxc3KUx1iid0Duw tQ&oe=6395D35F
Thanks for the replies. The inductors are scorched for sure. It looks like the plastic tape wrap melted from overheating of the resistors? In both speakers too. Even some scorch damage on the wooly filling.
Lawrence001
07-12-2022, 23:11
Yes as Geoff said a resistor will go before an inductor. Looks like the blown resistor damaged the inductor
walpurgis
08-12-2022, 08:36
Very odd that both speakers have had the same issue. I wonder if somebody has been putting huge amounts of power through them?
willbewill
08-12-2022, 09:23
Maybe someone thought they were active speakers and powered them from the mains
walpurgis
08-12-2022, 11:48
Maybe someone thought they were active speakers and powered them from the mains
I have actually seen the results when some dimwit tried that. A pair of new Harbeths with melted coils! :eek:
Lawrence001
11-12-2022, 09:31
Surely you'd realise that speaker inputs aren't designed to be plugged into a mains cable??
Surely you'd realise that speaker inputs aren't designed to be plugged into a mains cable??
you'd be surprised what people will do. even educated ones.:doh:
Very odd that both speakers have had the same issue. I wonder if somebody has been putting huge amounts of power through them?
more likely that they have just been run continuously for a long period of time, otherwise the drivers would be toast.
I've seen that on old speakers a few times, burning marks on the wadding and the crossover board. The heat has to go somewhere.
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