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View Full Version : No what hi fi review of 7520?



daveyboy
30-07-2009, 08:53
Does anyone know why this is? whf have had a review of the 7510 for ages now, so does this simply mean Stan hasn't given them a unit of the new dac yet? It would be interesting to see how mags perceive the difference between the two dacs.

DSJR
30-07-2009, 08:55
It's too good for WTF and anyway, it's not made/marketed by Cyrus.....

StanleyB
30-07-2009, 10:27
Some people see a WHF review as a curse, or not worth the paper it is printed on. So it is a two edged sword..
HIFI World is doing a review of the TC-7520 in their next issue I think. CNET is also supposed to be doing a review.

STan

NickB
30-07-2009, 13:49
Hi Stan

It is in a group DAC review in the latest edition I think, but unfortunately they call it a 7510 even tho all the pictures show a 7520. You will all be surprised to know that the most expensive (Benchmark DAC-1S) one was the best one !!!!!!!! - apparently.

Russ Andrews Fubar II
Musical Fidelity V-DAC
Bersford TC-7510
Cambridge Audio DacMagic
MGL Symphony DACPre
Stello DA100 Signature
Benchmark DAC-1S

Being the protagonists.

Nick

Covenant
30-07-2009, 14:45
I bet you cant spend £10 on the Benchmark to elevate its performance to another level though.

daveyboy
30-07-2009, 15:40
Lol well it's all about different perspectives, I don't use what hi fi as the definitive guide, however if a product gets good ratings from all the mags, then it's safe to say I take an interest in it.

daveyboy
30-07-2009, 16:10
If you mean whf have reviewed the 7520 but called it 7510, I would say this is incorrect, I have not seen myself, nor seen or heard anyone talk about the whf review of that, even on the whf forums, in fact they are asking when it will be reviewed.

Dave Cawley
30-07-2009, 16:13
You can download it from Hi Fi World (September 2009) issue http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/currentish.html

Dave

NickB
30-07-2009, 16:54
Hi Dave

"You can download it from Hi Fi World (September 2009) issuehttp://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/currentish.html"

That was exactly what I did.

Nick

The Vinyl Adventure
30-07-2009, 18:08
i remember a time when what hifi were bigging up arcam over the equiv priced nad kit (about 10 - 11 years back). i listened to what they were talking about in a shop in town and couldnt belive how wrong i thought they were! that was the day i realised how much different peoples taste in hifi can be... before that i asumed, very nievely, that good hifi was good hifi. that was also the day that my interest in hifi as a hobby increased 10 fold.
as daveyboy says if its good acording to the majority then its worth taking note, otherwise the best review is only your own i recon.

i love my naim 82/180/hicap with my pmcs, and i have heard a lot of other hifi worth a lot more that people swear by that i think sucks! i listened to this one system a month or so back - huge diy valve pre and power amps, gas powered tt, "a thousand pounds of speaker cable" , and some inported chineese electrostatics with separate transmision line bass units. i could see the atraction but i was left wanting so much more while listening to it, it had no guts and seemed to lack timing somehow!
it turned out he had sold a naim 82/180 to fund the valve kit build

it not only makes me wonder about peoples taste, but also differing perseption of sound... if that makes sence?

anyway ... waffle over!!

daveyboy
30-07-2009, 20:23
Thanks for the link but either I am being blind, or there is no link to view the review in question? the url just presents me with a lodown of what appears in the mag.

The Vinyl Adventure
30-07-2009, 21:26
yeah i thought that... is it coz we aint got online subscriptions?

StanleyB
30-07-2009, 21:51
Well, I did say that the TC-7510 is unbeatable in value versus ability. I haven't got a copy of the mag yet, but I understand that the TC-7510 got marked down for being too clinical:scratch:.

Stan

leo
30-07-2009, 22:10
Thanks for the link but either I am being blind, or there is no link to view the review in question? the url just presents me with a lodown of what appears in the mag.

I can't see it either

daveyboy
30-07-2009, 23:09
No specsavers juet yet then :)

daveyboy
01-08-2009, 11:16
Okay I took the old fashioned approach and went into WH Smith to read Hi Fi World. The Beresford was given 4/5 which to me is a perfectly respectable rating, they said it sounded very clear, was ideal for rock because of it's punch and bass and as far as weaknesses is concerned, they considered that it can sound a little clinical at times. The V Dac won the Dac group test not because it is better than the Stelio, but considering it can be bought for 129.00, they felt it offered the best value. The only thing they did mess up on was describing it as the Beresford 7510. Also not sure why the criticisms were thrown at What Hi Fi, after all they gave the Beresford 7510 5 stars.

StanleyB
01-08-2009, 13:48
The only thing they did mess up on was describing it as the Beresford 7510. A
The mistake in mixing up the 7510 with the 7520 calls into question whether other inaccuracies have found their way into the review of the whole article.

daveyboy
01-08-2009, 14:19
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, just seems like an error on their part. The review itself was detailed and concise. The dac group test itself was an interesting read actually.

DSJR
01-08-2009, 15:49
Also not sure why the criticisms were thrown at What Hi Fi, after all they gave the Beresford 7510 5 stars.


Thirty plus years of reading it and twenty five plus years of watching it go down the pan. Furthermore, discussions with some of the "Haymarketeers" have shown me that when a budding journalist wishes to work on What Car, he or she is started at the bottom and WTF is the bottm of the haymarket food chain, below What Gardening (or whatever).

We used to hear all manner of "stories" about the utter incompetence of many mag people, the *gods* at the top of the tree swanning around as if they owned the industry (they probably held the livelyhood of many smaller companies in their hands) and being real "know-it-alls." Ken Kessler used to have a huge camera slung round his neck at shows and to watch him breeze in and out of an exhibitor's room with a far eastern entourage in tow bowing and scraping was something to be seen. Other "gods" would be happy to put a particular item in their reference system as long as the manufacturer paid for "consultancy" work of whatever nature..

Apologies. familiarity and contempt still prevents me from buying many mags these days. one or two per year is quite enough (HFW usually).

daveyboy
01-08-2009, 15:54
Well without becoming embroiled in the particulars, this is why I like to read a consensus, so when all the mags, including what hi fi are giving something notable commendations, then it's safe to say it is a very good product.

DSJR
01-08-2009, 15:57
WTF say one thing and I've read that 'Choice almost always say the opposite. Be warned ;)

break-3
01-08-2009, 17:48
Furthermore, discussions with some of the "Haymarketeers" have shown me that when a budding journalist wishes to work on What Car, he or she is started at the bottom and WTF is the bottm of the haymarket food chain, below What Gardening (or whatever).


Load of old tosh. Happy to expound on that via PM if necessary.

Marco
01-08-2009, 17:51
Hi Simon,

No, please conduct your debate here. I'm very interested in this, as I'm sure many of our other members are :)

Thanks in advance.

Marco.

DSJR
01-08-2009, 21:27
I report what I was told, admittedly some years ago. I don't make this stuff up to make myself something I'm not.

I don't read WTF any more, it's full of TV's and associated guff and said TV's are plastered all over the front cover month after month. As this mag has nothing to do with most of the content discussed on AOS, I'll bow out of this one, as I don't wish to get into yet another boring battle. I think HiFi Dave would back me up on this - and he used to be a prolific reviewer back in the day...

Gazjam
01-08-2009, 21:56
..its not Dave Vivian is it?

leo
02-08-2009, 10:38
I just brought the magazine, shall I post the review on here? thats if I'm allowed ?

The Vinyl Adventure
02-08-2009, 10:59
i have to say, i too am interested in what goes on behind the sceans at these mags! me and a my boss at the shop have noticed that for the most part, with minor exceptions, when it comes to tvs - one year sonys get the best review, then the next year its the pannys, then sony agian... and so on. we have always wondered if there is something driving these desitions more than the actualy quality of the products.
what hifi do seem to have a flavour-of-the-season, every time i pick it up lately they are banging on about cyruss. even when they review something else as being a top of the pile product by the next month they have forgotten about and its back to cyruss again!
it could all be inocent ie mr/mrs editor has just bought a huge cyruss hifi and is very chuffed with it, but im to cinical to belive that to be the case

daveyboy
02-08-2009, 16:48
To be honest with and (apologies for going off track) I think the panny plasmas are superb and as for WHF favouring Sony tv's, recently 2 tv's have been put in the dock for backlight bleed. So I don't buy this idea that they ignore all flaws if the flaw is with x manufacturer. Also of course going back to hi fi, taste is very subjective, let's face it.

break-3
03-08-2009, 18:59
Hi Simon,

No, please conduct your debate here. I'm very interested in this, as I'm sure many of our other members are :)

Thanks in advance.

Marco.

Sorry, I've not had much free time to reply.

Firstly, let me say that I don't work for WHF and never have, but I do work alongside them. I'm not going to defend their brand direction, either.

However, to claim that WHF is the bottom of the Haymarket 'food chain' is ridiculous; its status within the company is certainly below What Car (the company's flagship), but above the majority of other titles, and within the industry it's considered one of the biggest consumer electronics titles to work on.

None of the current staff have more than a passing interest in cars, bar one – and he'd freely admit that he doesn't know enough about them to make a career out of it. They are all, however, passionate about AV kit in one form or another, and wouldn't have been hired otherwise. I don't know of a single motoring journalist who's started out at a title as large and prestigious as WHF.

In journalism, you either start out at the mag you love, getting in through work experience and hard graft, or you work up through some of the tiniest, most tedious publications until you have enough experience under your belt that somewhere like WHF, What Car, Empire, Mojo or whatever will look at you to find out if you also have the knowledge and passion for that particular publication.

With regard to anyone disagreeing with WHF's opinions on certain kit, I'd be amazed if there weren't disagreement. What we hear and see are utterly subjective, and even though WHF has some of the most well-appointed test rooms in the UK (and spend an immense amount of time in them), we all experience different things.

Someone recently wrote that they wished WHF published names after reviews, so they could work out each reviewer's tastes, but I know the team often seek a consensus of opinion – most reviews reflect the experiences of several members of staff.

Again, this doesn't mean I think they're always right, but they believe what they write and that's as good as can be asked of any reviewer.

While I'm at it (and I know this hasn't been mentioned here), I'd quickly like to address any ridiculous conspiracy theories that reviews are paid for. In any major publishing company, such as Haymarket, IPC, Future or Bauer, editorial integrity is paramount – to the point that most ad guys don't even get to see finished editorial until the finished mag comes into the office. In most cases advertising and editorial staff aren't even on the same floor. Besides, there's always a natural (maybe healthy) distrust between the two parties. I'll leave it at that, as this is already the longest post I've ever written. Time for... :cool:

Beechwoods
03-08-2009, 19:05
Thank you, Simon, for a bit of an inside view on things. Enjoy your beer! :)

DSJR
03-08-2009, 21:41
Sorry, I've not had much free time to reply.

While I'm at it (and I know this hasn't been mentioned here), I'd quickly like to address any ridiculous conspiracy theories that reviews are paid for. In any major publishing company, such as Haymarket, IPC, Future or Bauer, editorial integrity is paramount – to the point that most ad guys don't even get to see finished editorial until the finished mag comes into the office. In most cases advertising and editorial staff aren't even on the same floor. Besides, there's always a natural (maybe healthy) distrust between the two parties. I'll leave it at that, as this is already the longest post I've ever written. Time for... :cool:

Reviews may not be paid for today, but in the eighties it was a very different kettle of fish, one popular independant publication being bankrolled, at least in part, by one of the "in crowd" of the UK audio scene. I know of other reviewers who owned next to nothing of their own, their reference systems being loan items which were regularly replaced with the next best new item fromm that manufacturer (to be fair, stalwarts such as Paul Messanger almost certainly bought his Linn/Naim gear).

I've still heard of product being "reviewed" in sealed unopened boxes and subjective comments totally at odds with what the dealers found. At least in the eighties, many reviewers worked part-time dealing with customers in HiFi shops (Jimmy Hughes, Alvin Gold, Chris Frankland at least to my knowledge) and even Ken Kessler had his own audio business once. martin Colloms spent a lot of time in and around London dealers back then, comparing notes and sometimes showing off and helping to promote his designs for some of the manufacturers he worked for, a trademark being turning up the tweeter to take attention away from a somewhat coloured midrange that couldn't be sorted at the time....

Since so few WTF readers seem to visit real world specialist dealers these days, I suppose it's a moot point anyway. let Sevenoaks and Richer Sounds deal with 'em ;)

break-3
04-08-2009, 05:57
What annoys me is that you're talking about how things were decades ago. You're merely perpetuating a view of UK journalism that hasn't been true for at least ten years (except in isolated cases). There's nothing wrong with debunking past crimes, but you shouldn't assume that things don't change. To just throw these kinds of comments out there as if it explains a current situation is irresponsible.

freddiecas
16-08-2009, 16:48
well I've been reading the mags on and off for 30 years and the impressions of DSJR certainly strike a chord here, and the description of all these competent and professional Haymarket reviewers very hard to believe from some of the things you read in the finished product! :lol: