WTD: Bent Audio NOH or TAP preamp with copper cored S&B TX102 transformers

[Colin151]

Looking for a Bent Audio Preamp that uses copper cored S&B TX102 transformers. Not interested in other brands due to wiring issues (the Bent Audio version uses copper wires from the secondaries whereas the others use silver plated copper (which I don't personally like))

If you have a NOH or TAP you might sell please let me know

[Clive]

What about the Bent AVC? It sounds a fraction better than the TX102.

[Colin151]

What about the Bent AVC? It sounds a fraction better than the TX102.
Yes that could be nice and slightly better but I worry about the price! Looks like you have one (from your profile). Might you you be willing to part with it, and if so how much would you want for it?

Cheers,
Colin

[Clive]

Yes that could be nice and slightly better but I worry about the price! Looks like you have one (from your profile). Might you you be willing to part with it, and if so how much would you want for it?

Cheers,
Colin
Hi Colin,

The Bent AVC is not leaving my system. If you bought one it would cost about £1,000 + duty & VAT, then there are a few wires to solder. If you can find an MFA unit second hand I expect it'll cost a good amount more than the Bent AVC. I have a TX102 mkII in a diy box but I will hang onto to it for a likely 2nd system in the near future.

Maybe someone on the diyadio forum might have a TX102 they'd be will to sell.

[Colin151]

Thanks for the info.
The AVC sounds like a good option. Does it sound quite a bit better than the TX102 in your view?

Cheers,
Colin

Hi Colin,

The Bent AVC is not leaving my system. If you bought one it would cost about £1,000 + duty & VAT, then there are a few wires to solder. If you can find an MFA unit second hand I expect it'll cost a good amount more than the Bent AVC. I have a TX102 mkII in a diy box but I will hang onto to it for a likely 2nd system in the near future.

Maybe someone on the diyadio forum might have a TX102 they'd be will to sell.

[Clive]

Thanks for the info.
The AVC sounds like a good option. Does it sound quite a bit better than the TX102 in your view?

Cheers,
Colin
I would say the AVC is a touch smoother, has better treble detail and decay. This however it gets a little difficult to predict as so much depends on the source's ability to drive the TVC. TVCs can make it harder for sources to drive power amps, AVCs actually make it easier. In absolute terms the sonic differences are small. Unless you are hyper-critical I'd let price determine which you get.

[anubisgrau]

AVC is much more source sensitive (from my own experience). you may need to restack the autoformers to optimize performance.

[montesquieu]

Thanks for the info.
The AVC sounds like a good option. Does it sound quite a bit better than the TX102 in your view?

Cheers,
Colin

I'm using the MkII (larger cored, copper) version of the TX102 - it's a factory Music First Audio Mk II (larger bodied than the 'classic', with balanced inputs and outputs and remote control).

It's stunning and actually betters (to my ears) the silver TX102 - I guess that's what you found too Colin?

I've been a dyed in the wool active preamp guy forever and have never previously been convinced by any form of passive. Seems to work fantastically well with tube sources.

[Colin151]

Thanks for the info.
When you say its larger body, do you mean the case of the preamp, or the Trannies themselves?

I spoke to John Chapman of Bent Audio at length about different TX102 versions. He said his personal favourite was the MK3 but many other people like the MK2 version best, as you obviously do. I think the wiring on all S&B factory copper units coming out of the trannies on the secondaries is silver plated copper so yours is likely to be too. If the wires are red or black or white, that's certainly the SPC wiring, and the Music First preamps will definitely have that wiring. I have had two MK1s TX102s and a MK3 like this and found the sound well balanced in general but a bit metallic in the treble (which spoilt it for me). Not tried the MK2.

John Chapman got S&B to custom wind TX102s with different Neotech Magnet wire and also OCC copper cabling he supplied them (instead of the SPC cabling). That cabling is clear, not coloured and is easily identifiable. So the Bent audio TX102 preamps will sound quite a bit different than the others due to totally different wiring and I am attracted to that as it's all copper (I don't usually like silver or SPC cabling)

What was the silver cored TX102 like? I would never get one, but am curious?

I am still recovering from selling my SJS Arcadia model 1 active preamp a couple of years ago. Wish I had not sold that. A TX102 preamp is comparable for sure but has a different tone and a more "passive sound". The SJS was a little more lightweight sounding, but I did really like the sound as it had a little dose of tube magic there (but not over the top like many valve preamps). I remember you had and sold a Model 2. Rare preamps indeed! Supposed to be comparable to Kondos.


I'm using the MkII (larger cored, copper) version of the TX102 - it's a factory Music First Audio Mk II (larger bodied than the 'classic', with balanced inputs and outputs and remote control).

It's stunning and actually betters (to my ears) the silver TX102 - I guess that's what you found too Colin?

I've been a dyed in the wool active preamp guy forever and have never previously been convinced by any form of passive. Seems to work fantastically well with tube sources.

[Colin151]

AVC is much more source sensitive (from my own experience). you may need to restack the autoformers to optimize performance.

Thanks for the info. Hmmm what do you mean by "Restack"?!

[Colin151]

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I am hyper sensitive and hyper-critical! I like your description of the sound of the AVC. The treble with the TX102's I've had (all S&B standard units with the SPC wiring) was a little metallic and there is a slight loss of treble detail. Hard to tell if that's the TVC itself or the cabling. If the AVC has better treble detail and decay that sounds very attractive to me. I think you can buy the trannies direct, but its still quite pricey with the import charges etc.


I would say the AVC is a touch smoother, has better treble detail and decay. This however it gets a little difficult to predict as so much depends on the source's ability to drive the TVC. TVCs can make it harder for sources to drive power amps, AVCs actually make it easier. In absolute terms the sonic differences are small. Unless you are hyper-critical I'd let price determine which you get.

[montesquieu]

Nothing metallic in the treble on my MkII but I must admit I'm not aware of the distinctions you mention. I just preferred the copper over the silver wired as it seems more natural somehow - it's all very subtle though.

Yes I do regret selling my SJS Arcadia Model 2. My mistake was sending it to Definitive rather than back to Simon for tweaking (I didn't know him then) - it came back different all right, but I think Simon would have done a better job taking it up a notch, given it was his design. You live and learn.



Thanks for the info.
When you say its larger body, do you mean the case of the preamp, or the Trannies themselves?

I spoke to John Chapman of Bent Audio at length about different TX102 versions. He said his personal favourite was the MK3 but many other people like the MK2 version best, as you obviously do. I think the wiring on all S&B factory copper units coming out of the trannies on the secondaries is silver plated copper so yours is likely to be too. If the wires are red or black or white, that's certainly the SPC wiring, and the Music First preamps will definitely have that wiring. I have had two MK1s TX102s and a MK3 like this and found the sound well balanced in general but a bit metallic in the treble (which spoilt it for me). Not tried the MK2.

John Chapman got S&B to custom wind TX102s with different Neotech Magnet wire and also OCC copper cabling he supplied them (instead of the SPC cabling). That cabling is clear, not coloured and is easily identifiable. So the Bent audio TX102 preamps will sound quite a bit different than the others due to totally different wiring and I am attracted to that as it's all copper (I don't usually like silver or SPC cabling)

What was the silver cored TX102 like? I would never get one, but am curious?

I am still recovering from selling my SJS Arcadia model 1 active preamp a couple of years ago. Wish I had not sold that. A TX102 preamp is comparable for sure but has a different tone and a more "passive sound". The SJS was a little more lightweight sounding, but I did really like the sound as it had a little dose of tube magic there (but not over the top like many valve preamps). I remember you had and sold a Model 2. Rare preamps indeed! Supposed to be comparable to Kondos.

[Colin151]

Thanks for the info on the preamp with TX102 MK2s. Will have to try one sometime though the Slagle AVC transformers sound like they could also be good. Maybe OK price if you do DIY too.

Sorry to hear your Arcadia came back from Definitive not to your liking. I guess some of it is tastes, but I think it probably would have been a better to get Simon to upgrade it instead. Seriously the standard Model 1 sounded pretty amazing to me. I was happy just the way it sounded and probably would not have touched it. Funnily enough the Model 2 used all silver wiring I believe. Not sure if the wiring in the Model 1 was straight copper or silver plated copper.

BTW what power amp do you use the MF with?


Nothing metallic in the treble on my MkII but I must admit I'm not aware of the distinctions you mention. I just preferred the copper over the silver wired as it seems more natural somehow - it's all very subtle though.

Yes I do regret selling my SJS Arcadia Model 2. My mistake was sending it to Definitive rather than back to Simon for tweaking (I didn't know him then) - it came back different all right, but I think Simon would have done a better job taking it up a notch, given it was his design. You live and learn.

[montesquieu]

BTW what power amp do you use the MF with?

Acquired in anticipation of a Radford STA100 which is currently being attended to by Valvebloke in his venture as Ampregen, with some help from Radford Revival (who have provided some new output transformers tweaked for 6ohm speakers rather than the 100v line/8-16 ohm setup of the original which was primarily intended for studio work). Should be ideal with the Tannoy Canterburys. The HPDs in my current setup need rather more poke than the old Golds I had been using for years, and I wanted to stick with valves if possible rather than go down the SS route.

[Colin151]

The Radford STA100 looks like a great amp. That's pretty powerful. The HPD drivers need more power than the older monitor gold drivers as they are less sensitive. I once heard a pair of Lancasters (probably the lowliest monitor gold speaker) driven by a 10 watt Leak stereo 20 and it sounded fantastic. Good combo that.

Its also great you could get the Radford transformers tweaked for lower impedance speakers. Though speakers like my Magnepans are too low impedance and low sensitivity for an amp like that. I have been looking for an old Lumley valve amp to drive them (which have massive transformers and can drive 2 ohm loads) so I can also stick with valves, but no luck finding anything yet.


Acquired in anticipation of a Radford STA100 which is currently being attended to by Valvebloke in his venture as Ampregen, with some help from Radford Revival (who have provided some new output transformers tweaked for 6ohm speakers rather than the 100v line/8-16 ohm setup of the original which was primarily intended for studio work). Should be ideal with the Tannoy Canterburys. The HPDs in my current setup need rather more poke than the old Golds I had been using for years, and I wanted to stick with valves if possible rather than go down the SS route.

[Volante]

Colin,

Have you considered s/h Innersound now Sanders Sound amps to drive your maggies or are you wedded to valves - they are very stable with difficult loads. I use a pair of Magtechs with my old Innersound Kachina stats.
see www.sanderssoundsystems.com

I am also a fan of Bent preamps -have both the NOH (copper I think) and the slagle tranny based TAP-X and can't say I notice a huge difference.You are welcome to borrow one/both if you like. I am in SW London. IM me if you would like to do so.

[Colin151]

Really sorry didn't see you post until now. Thanks for offer to borrow a tranny preamp. Would love to take you up on that sometime. You are also welcome to come and hear my Maggies sometime. I have two pairs at the moment. 3.3Rs and MGIIIa.

I would love to get a tube amp capable of driving them but the only option is something like the Lumleys I have a wanted ad for. They are stable into a 2 ohm load and can even drive a lot of the Apogees no problem. Not many valve amps have output transformers of that calibre. Lowered powered valve amps with less heavy duty output transformers (which most are) are no good for Maggies not even for biamping where the power requirements to are less. The Audio Reasearchs could work but those are not supposed to sound as good as Lumleys from what I have read and heard. Macintosh's maybe but they are pricey. The Michaaelson and Austin TVA1 is another used option that would work but not quite as good sounding as Lumleys and they also have a habit of catching fire!

The Sanders amps look good but they are a bit pricey and that's a bit more power than I actually need. Around 300 or so watts into 4 ohms is ok for single amp drive. If I was going solid state I'd probably want a near Class A amp, not AB. The Usher 1.5 looks like quite a good option (they turn up secondhand quite cheap) or I could use a lowered powered class A amp like a Classe on the mid/tweeter in biamping, and my NAD 208 on the bass.

Will send you a pm re the Preamps.

Colin,

Have you considered s/h Innersound now Sanders Sound amps to drive your maggies or are you wedded to valves - they are very stable with difficult loads. I use a pair of Magtechs with my old Innersound Kachina stats.
see www.sanderssoundsystems.com

I am also a fan of Bent preamps -have both the NOH (copper I think) and the slagle tranny based TAP-X and can't say I notice a huge difference.You are welcome to borrow one/both if you like. I am in SW London. IM me if you would like to do so.