View Full Version : Best mat for standard 1210 platter
I'm leaning towards the 1210 achromat but it is a rip off for a piece of plastic. Thoughts?
Compared to what you can spend it is not that pricey so I would not call it a rip-off. A lot of people rate it and use it. I've not tried one personally. I use a cork/butyl job with a label recess. I thought it was a distinct improvement on the stock mat and I have swapped back to check that finding more than once. They are about £20 on eBay.
All these things are giving a middle man a living as well as the actual manufacturer, so in retail land, £70 for a squidgy circle of 'plastic' is about right. Seeing as I'm a pauper and tight with it, a cork mat is very cheap and seems to work on top of the stock one, lightening the sonics a little and minimising the heaviness IMO. You don't really need a label recess, as the techie platter is ever-so-slightly dished from near the edge to centre(by 1mm I understand) although the mat should be undercut slightly if the stock one isn't placed underneath as there's a slightly raised bit at the perimeter of the stock platter. I still swear by the Chizwizard cork mats for a tenner on fleabay :)
Another cheap mat is the NAS Spacemat, which currently flogs out at around £20 I think. A very dense spongy substance with no 'skin,' this one deadens disc 'ringing' (tap a playing record with and without it - quite a difference in my experience) and some decks love it.
Have a play with the cheap options to see what you think. If you them feel the need to spend a ton or more on a 'posh' mat, then you'll have some experience to back up your purchase choice :)
Compared to what you can spend it is not that pricey so I would not call it a rip-off. A lot of people rate it and use it. I've not tried one personally. I use a cork/butyl job with a label recess. I thought it was a distinct improvement on the stock mat and I have swapped back to check that finding more than once. They are about £20 on eBay.
I'll repeat - The best part of £100. For a piece of plastic.
All these things are giving a middle man a living as well as the actual manufacturer, so in retail land, £70 for a squidgy circle of 'plastic' is about right. Seeing as I'm a pauper and tight with it, a cork mat is very cheap and seems to work on top of the stock one, lightening the sonics a little and minimising the heaviness IMO. You don't really need a label recess, as the techie platter is ever-so-slightly dished from near the edge to centre(by 1mm I understand) although the mat should be undercut slightly if the stock one isn't placed underneath as there's a slightly raised bit at the perimeter of the stock platter. I still swear by the Chizwizard cork mats for a tenner on fleabay :)
Another cheap mat is the NAS Spacemat, which currently flogs out at around £20 I think. A very dense spongy substance with no 'skin,' this one deadens disc 'ringing' (tap a playing record with and without it - quite a difference in my experience) and some decks love it.
Have a play with the cheap options to see what you think. If you them feel the need to spend a ton or more on a 'posh' mat, then you'll have some experience to back up your purchase choice :)
The cork does seem to be popular but i don't like the look of it! Could the cork be used underneath a felt mat?
Ty, I'm going out on a limb a bit here but I am going to recommend a mat that I have not tried. Have a look at this: http://www.oyaide.com/ENGLISH/AUDIO/products_category/analog/br_one.html
It is new to the market.
First, let me say that the choice of mat is dependent on the platter. In this case you posit the standard platter. The standard platter is only partially damped by the rubber underneath. It is not good in part because the rubber has been imperfectly applied, ie not evenly bonded to the underside of the platter. Also not good because the rubber used is not the optimal damping material. You can see, or rather hear, the difference for yourself by removing the platter and holding it by the magnet assembly and then hit it with a spoon. It acts as a resonating board. The optimal solution is an aftermarket platter or, in my case, a DIY damping solution underneath. However that is easier said than done and most don't want the expense or hassle.
With the above in mind it does seem worthwhile to get serious about an aftermarket mat, especially as the Technics mat is not great. The 'butyl rubber' strikes a chord with me as I have used a commercial butyl (Dynamat) for damping computer cases, my car, and hi-fi gear. It works very well. I already have the achromat and the Origin Live mats, and both are good. But if I was buying a mat now, especially for an undamped platter this is what I would go for.
By way of makeweight, I have used Oyaide products in the past: headshells, headshell leads, and cables (analogue, digital, and tonearm) and find them to be a respectable brand (albeit a bit pricey).
Hey thanks Andrei - you've given me lots of advice in the past too so I'm very grateful. I would probably try using dynamat underneath at some point. That oyaide mat you've recommended looks good and not too expensive - but it looks like its meant to work with the MJ-12 and not directly onto the technics platter?
Ty, I'm going out on a limb a bit here but I am going to recommend a mat that I have not tried. Have a look at this: http://www.oyaide.com/ENGLISH/AUDIO/products_category/analog/br_one.html
It is new to the market.
First, let me say that the choice of mat is dependent on the platter. In this case you posit the standard platter. The standard platter is only partially damped by the rubber underneath. It is not good in part because the rubber has been imperfectly applied, ie not evenly bonded to the underside of the platter. Also not good because the rubber used is not the optimal damping material. You can see, or rather hear, the difference for yourself by removing the platter and holding it by the magnet assembly and then hit it with a spoon. It acts as a resonating board. The optimal solution is an aftermarket platter or, in my case, a DIY damping solution underneath. However that is easier said than done and most don't want the expense or hassle.
With the above in mind it does seem worthwhile to get serious about an aftermarket mat, especially as the Technics mat is not great. The 'butyl rubber' strikes a chord with me as I have used a commercial butyl (Dynamat) for damping computer cases, my car, and hi-fi gear. It works very well. I already have the achromat and the Origin Live mats, and both are good. But if I was buying a mat now, especially for an undamped platter this is what I would go for.
By way of makeweight, I have used Oyaide products in the past: headshells, headshell leads, and cables (analogue, digital, and tonearm) and find them to be a respectable brand (albeit a bit pricey).
Hey thanks Andrei - you've given me lots of advice in the past too so I'm very grateful. I would probably try using dynamat underneath at some point. That oyaide mat you've recommended looks good and not too expensive - but it looks like its meant to work with the MJ-12 and not directly onto the technics platter?
That oyaide mat you've recommended looks good and not too expensive - but it looks like its meant to work with the MJ-12 and not directly onto the technics platter?
Hmmmm. They do say: "Then we have started to produce its option item which enhances the performance of MJ-12." The MJ-12 was very slightly curved but was meant to be flattened by a weight, so I think the BR-ONE should be flat. If it is flat then I see no problem with using it. Under the heading 'Features' it is all in Japanese, which is all Greek to me, so not much to be gleaned there. It seems safe enough but someone said "I know not 'seems' " - Hamlet?
As an aside I always wonder if this whole 'ringing platter' thing is a total red herring. Fair enough it gongs if you hit it with a spoon but that is not something I tend to do whilst playing records. You sit a mat on it you sit a record on that, it rotates at a sedate pace, the stylus traces the grooves, what is happening there to excite any resonance or ringing? I would say absolutley nothing.
I don't think there is a "best" mat for a standard platter.
It's all down to personal preference at the end of the day.
You need to try a few in your own system and see which you prefer.
MikeMusic
22-09-2014, 08:40
I think the Achromat is great VFM
I moved on but only by spending more on an Oyaide, better sound for more dough
Wakefield Turntables
22-09-2014, 10:54
I've tried the following disregarded mats on my 1210 :-
Self made
Felt
Sorbothane
Medium density EVA
High density EVA
Various Eurethanes
Cork
Rubber
Commercial
The original 1210 mat
A Garrard 301 mat
Achromat 1210 5mm version
Resomat
The one which lastest the longest and I used for a hell of long time was Achromat. The one which won overall and now resides on my deck is THE RESOMAT.
For £30 I heartily recommend it.
Does it work well with a standard platter?
Wakefield Turntables
22-09-2014, 11:05
Does it work well with a standard platter?
Yeah pretty well i used the resomat on my mates 1210. I did a thread a few weeks ago where I restored a garage find 1210. I gave him a cork mat but used my resomat whilst it sat in my room. I dont think you would go wrong with the resomat and I think you stand a very good chance of getting your money back if you sell it on.
I have the Funk Achromat and the Resomat. Both get used on my Funk platter.
I find it difficult to choose between the two, as I like what they both do.
Wakefield Turntables
22-09-2014, 12:19
I have the Funk Achromat and the Resomat. Both get used on my Funk platter.
I find it difficult to choose between the two, as I like what they both do.
Count yourself lucky! At least your not on an eternal quest for the "next best thing".
I think the Achromat is great VFM
I moved on but only by spending more on an Oyaide, better sound for more dough
The Oyaide sounds great and looks cool too- this is what l use on my Techie.
As an aside I always wonder if this whole 'ringing platter' thing is a total red herring. Fair enough it gongs if you hit it with a spoon but that is not something I tend to do whilst playing records. You sit a mat on it you sit a record on that, it rotates at a sedate pace, the stylus traces the grooves, what is happening there to excite any resonance or ringing? I would say absolutley nothing.
Noise comes from the bearing - this is metal on metal with some lubricant. The bearing is connected to the platter. Also the stylus makes noise in the vinyl, which is connected to the platter. Both of these are small and could not be heard by the ear. But they are magnified - I forget the number - some 11,000 times. Now it is audible. This is why people spend up large on after-market platters. I recall Marco et al actually preferring the Mike New platter to the Funk platter in a shootout. But if you don't go the platter route I consider you can ameliorate matter with a good mat.
I think the bearing noise is more significant, and maybe that is why the resomat is a good option.
I've tried the following disregarded mats on my 1210 :-
The one which lastest the longest and I used for a hell of long time was Achromat. The one which won overall and now resides on my deck is THE RESOMAT.
For £30 I heartily recommend it.
I take it you cannot use a weight with the Resomat?
Wakefield Turntables
22-09-2014, 21:44
I take it you cannot use a weight with the Resomat?
YEP! No weight, never been a big fan anyway. I'm waiting for a fellow AOSer to come up with a new design for me.
YEP! No weight, never been a big fan anyway. I'm waiting for a fellow AOSer to come up with a new design for me.
Many do just fine without a weight. I am using the Michell clamp at the moment, because if I do not then the record slips on the achromat when I use a dust-brush.
Wakefield Turntables
22-09-2014, 22:15
Many do just fine without a weight. I am using the Michell clamp at the moment, because if I do not then the record slips on the achromat when I use a dust-brush.
I sometimes use a Michell with my 301.
destroysall
23-09-2014, 00:38
While I am not a Technics SL-1200/1210 owner, I have always fancied the Auditorium 23 Hommage Mat. I'm not sure how interchangeable these mats are either, but they seem to be quite universal. Can't inform you of a price though. A dealer in California by the name of Pitch Perfect Audio does a great job showcasing the product with their pictures. Beautiful, I must say.
http://pitchperfectaudio.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/a23-hommage-mat-on-versalex.jpg
Chris.
Clive197
23-09-2014, 09:38
Many do just fine without a weight. I am using the Michell clamp at the moment, because if I do not then the record slips on the achromat when I use a dust-brush.
Andrei, why don't you use a little double sided sticky tape, or even some Vaseline. Then you won't need the clamp if you don't want to.
While I am not a Technics SL-1200/1210 owner, I have always fancied the Auditorium 23 Hommage Mat. I'm not sure how interchangeable these mats are either, but they seem to be quite universal. Can't inform you of a price though. A dealer in California by the name of Pitch Perfect Audio does a great job showcasing the product with their pictures. Beautiful, I must say.
http://pitchperfectaudio.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/a23-hommage-mat-on-versalex.jpg
Chris.
Looks like a Notts Analogue Space Mat - £20 or so..
P.S. The techie bearing is extremely low noise if used right..
Beobloke
23-09-2014, 13:36
P.S. The techie bearing is extremely low noise if used right..
Out of interest, how would you use one wrongly?
Out of interest, how would you use one wrongly?
Two things that I can think of.
First is by putting too much weight on it. An aftermarket platter, mat, and record clamp, can all be overweight. The bearing has friction at the business end, ie contact with the thrust pad, and excessive weight will mean increase in friction.
Second; using it unlubricated. I forget exactly how many hours use is recommended before re-oiling. One can go one better by opening the 1200 from the top, take out the bearing, and clean the thrust pad and place a drop of oil on it.
A combination of the above is more likely to make an audible difference.
I suppose it could be also said that DJ's misuse the bearing by pushing the platter down at the edge, but I think that is splitting hairs.
Two things that I can think of.
First is by putting too much weight on it. An aftermarket platter, mat, and record clamp, can all be overweight. The bearing has friction at the business end, ie contact with the thrust pad, and excessive weight will mean increase in friction.
Second; using it unlubricated. I forget exactly how many hours use is recommended before re-oiling. One can go one better by opening the 1200 from the top, take out the bearing, and clean the thrust pad and place a drop of oil on it.
A combination of the above is more likely to make an audible difference.
I suppose it could be also said that DJ's misuse the bearing by pushing the platter down at the edge, but I think that is splitting hairs.
Some great advice here thank you and I have already removed the bearing to service. Is the thrust pad the very bottom part of the bearing housing - and is actually detachable via two screws? Where do I actually apply oil apart from on the thrust pad? With the bearing in hand and turning the spindle manually do you know how easy it should rotate? Mine seems like there is a bit of tension when I twist - it certainly won't do a full rotation with a strong flick (if that makes any sense
Some great advice here thank you and I have already removed the bearing to service. Is the thrust pad the very bottom part of the bearing housing - and is actually detachable via two screws? Where do I actually apply oil apart from on the thrust pad? With the bearing in hand and turning the spindle manually do you know how easy it should rotate? Mine seems like there is a bit of tension when I twist - it certainly won't do a full rotation with a strong flick (if that makes any sense
What you describe makes sense. It should move quite freely.
The thrustpad is detachable as you mention via two screws, but there is no need to undo it. Where to place the oil? Only on the parts that make contact - so only two. One is a single drop of oil on the small black circle where the shaft makes contact. The other is the shaft inside the cylindrical housing. A couple of drops of oil on the top - actually at the point where the shaft enters the housing - and it will slowly works its way down as you play. You can help it a bit I suppose by giving it a bit of a jiggle.
What you describe makes sense. It should move quite freely.
The thrustpad is detachable as you mention via two screws, but there is no need to undo it. Where to place the oil? Only on the parts that make contact - so only two. One is a single drop of oil on the small black circle where the shaft makes contact. The other is the shaft inside the cylindrical housing. A couple of drops of oil on the top - actually at the point where the shaft enters the housing - and it will slowly works its way down as you play. You can help it a bit I suppose by giving it a bit of a jiggle.
As always Andrei you come through for me! Thank you mate.
What you describe makes sense. It should move quite freely.
The thrustpad is detachable as you mention via two screws, but there is no need to undo it. Where to place the oil? Only on the parts that make contact - so only two. One is a single drop of oil on the small black circle where the shaft makes contact. The other is the shaft inside the cylindrical housing. A couple of drops of oil on the top - actually at the point where the shaft enters the housing - and it will slowly works its way down as you play. You can help it a bit I suppose by giving it a bit of a jiggle.
Just reading your reply again Andrei - does my description sound right? - That a strong flick to rotate won't produce a full turn?
As always Andrei you come through for me! Thank you mate.
I have received more help on this forum than I have given, so no probs - just bear in mind that there is often more than one way of doing things.
Just reading your reply again Andrei - does my description sound right? - That a strong flick to rotate won't produce a full turn?
The short answer is that is normal. My instinct tells me that the more freely it rotates the better, but someone suggested a bit of drag could even be beneficial. In fact I have the Mike New bearing as well, and it has a lot more drag. The servo / motor seems to cope with that, as judged by my hearing and the strobe dots which are steady.
I have received more help on this forum than I have given, so no probs - just bear in mind that there is often more than one way of doing things.
The short answer is that is normal. My instinct tells me that the more freely it rotates the better, but someone suggested a bit of drag could even be beneficial. In fact I have the Mike New bearing as well, and it has a lot more drag. The servo / motor seems to cope with that, as judged by my hearing and the strobe dots which are steady.
With that then Andrei, I am ready to start the modification and should be done by the end of the weekend. I'll look to post my initial impression and pictures.
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