View Full Version : Politicising a hobbyist forum - Good or bad?
Says it all in the title really...
I don't mind the odd political debate from time to time as I find it keeps the old brain cells in good fettle and I have been known to instigate a couple of these myself. However, since the results of the Scottish referendum were announced there has been more than a slight whiff of bitterness and hypocrisy in the air. It's done and dusted, the people have spoken and therefore that is the end of it. What I object to is AoS being used as a springboard for pseudo-political activism of any persuasion, this is not the place for it :rolleyes:
walpurgis
21-09-2014, 12:50
I'm not voting either way. Any topic is fair game in the right place, but I do feel threads not related to Hi-Fi or music or sound reproduction in general, should be confined to the 'Abstract Chat' area. Just my view.
Any topic is fair game in the right place
Except that it has gone beyond this point now Geoff as Marco has stated that he intends to use AoS and its membership to help promote a political agenda. It is this aspect where I feel the line has been crossed. Political debate is all well and good and can in fact be rather enjoyable as long as all parties involved behave themselves accordingly, this is taking things way too far though IMO :rolleyes:
Incidentally, this is nothing personal it's just that I disagree with the methods employed, such as spamming the forum with political comment. Keep it in a single thread by all means and debate the issue, don't beat members over the head with it. In this way members will know which thread to visit/avoid...
The Black Adder
21-09-2014, 13:53
I see it this way, a forum and people can start a discussion or a debate about practically anything so long as it's posted in the correct section and that it's kept friendly, open, honest and fair with your cards placed firmly on the table.
I guess it's all about self discipline in to whether you join in on the debate or not. But fear not, Marco (or anyone else) won't black ball you if you don't take part or even vote against.
Personally, I don't get in to politics on forums very much... in the pub, yes... :) The written word can be misconstrued and with politics having a low melt down threshold for me those two ingredients are a bit of a Molotov. By starting a thread in defense of another thread can also cause just as much bad feeling so let's not go to war.
I see it this way, a forum and people can start a discussion or a debate about practically anything so long as it's posted in the correct section and that it's kept friendly, open, honest and fair with your cards placed firmly on the table.
I guess it's all about self discipline in to whether you join in on the debate or not. But fear not, Marco (or anyone else) won't black ball you if you don't take part or even vote against.
Personally, I don't get in to politics on forums very much... in the pub, yes... :) The written word can be misconstrued and with politics having a low melt down threshold for me those two ingredients are a bit of a Molotov. By starting a thread in defense of another thread can also cause just as much bad feeling so let's not go to war.
There is a lot of wisdom contained in your post Joe and like you I've no wish to see members go to war over this, that would be totally daft and unacceptable. I do think that a poll such as I have posted can highlight what the membership thinks about this current 'hiccup' however, which at the end of the day is what is important.
The Black Adder
21-09-2014, 14:24
Thanks matey... polls are always interesting. :)
Dave, you don’t half get on your high horse unnecessarily sometimes and exaggerate things! :doh:
Anyway, the fact is, there is ONE thread in Blank Canvas about the matter, and the remainder of it in the off-topic section, where such discussions belong, so I’d suggest that’s hardly “spamming the forum” with politics. Furthermore, that’s where the discussions will remain. The subject will not be raised anywhere else. You have my word on that.
The problem is (as has been evidenced by your contributions on the Scottish independence threads), you’d appear to rather just move on, brush any potential fraud/corruption under the carpet, and kid on it doesn’t exist, than ruffle any feathers by exposing it. In that respect, you appear to have your own agenda, as well as being a bit of a drama queen. Sorry, I have to be honest. “Members going to war”, FFS, mate, get a grip….
I’m afraid that (because I strongly believe that fraud has been committed, and that the referendum vote was rigged), I’m the exact opposite: I want to make as much NOISE AND FUSS as possible, and expose it as far as I’m able to, using my influence as a forum owner to draw people’s attention to the matter, in an effort to try and have the issue properly investigated by the relevant authorities.
Quite simply, if my efforts here add more names to the petition (and the numbers of people signing it are growing by the minute), and something good/constructive comes from that, then it’ll all have been worthwhile.
Simples! :)
Marco.
Keep refreshing this page and watch the numbers of those who’ve signed the petition rising!!
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-for-scottish-referendum-vote-count
:eyebrows: :eyebrows:
Marco.
prestonchipfryer
21-09-2014, 14:54
There is no provision in the vote for those of us (like me) who like, as it were, to sit on the fence. :eyebrows:
Dave, you don’t half get on your high horse unnecessarily sometimes and exaggerate things! :doh:
Anyway, the fact is, there is ONE thread in Blank Canvas about the matter, and the remainder of it in the off-topic section, where such discussions belong, so I’d suggest that’s hardly “spamming the forum” with politics. Furthermore, that’s where the discussions will remain. The subject will not be raised anywhere else. You have my word on that.
The problem is (as has been evidenced by your contributions on the Scottish independence threads), you’d appear to rather just move on, brush any potential fraud/corruption under the carpet, and kid on it doesn’t exist, than ruffle any feathers by exposing it. In that respect, you appear to have your own agenda, as well as being a bit of a drama queen. Sorry, I have to be honest. “Members going to war”, FFS, mate, get a grip….
I’m afraid that (because I strongly believe that fraud has been committed, and that the referendum vote was rigged), I’m the exact opposite: I want to make as much NOISE AND FUSS as possible, and expose it as far as I’m able to, in an effort to try and have the issue properly investigated by the relevant authorities.
Quite simply, if my efforts here add more names to the petition (and the numbers of people signing it are growing all the time), and something good/constructive comes from that, then it’ll have all been worthwhile.
Simples! :)
Marco.
Unbelievable.:lol::)
The Grand Wazoo
21-09-2014, 15:29
Good afternoon gents.
Fairly long time, no see for most of us, I think.
This thread is interesting. It's been sparked off as a reaction to Marco's rage at what he calls the establishment abusing their power in order to rig a vote.
Well, perhaps an explanation is in order for this screenshot that I took about 8 minutes ago.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv198/mischab1/Theestablishmentcaughtriggingapoll.jpg
What's going on Marco?
The Barbarian
21-09-2014, 15:34
Hi-Fi is played out. Bores the tears out of me.. Playing ground for braggers..I often wonder why they do not have anything else in their lives!
Good afternoon gents.
Fairly long time, no see for most of us, I think.
This thread is interesting. It's been sparked off as a reaction to Marco's rage at what he calls the establishment abusing their power in order to rig a vote.
Well, perhaps an explanation is in order for this screenshot that I took about 8 minutes ago.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv198/mischab1/Theestablishmentcaughtriggingapoll.jpg
What's going on Marco?
Oops, must’ve hit the send button more than once! :doh:
Sorry about that, you can ignore the other two votes, then :)
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
21-09-2014, 15:43
Well, it shows that three people have voted that politicising a forum is good and that they are all you. It seems a little at odds with your stance on another poll.
The Barbarian
21-09-2014, 15:46
;)
Dunno what happened, Chris. See post above. Welcome back, btw. Is this a fleeting visit or something more permanent? :)
Marco.
The Barbarian
21-09-2014, 15:48
People are Fleeing AOS. Any clues as to why?
Missed opportunity there Marco you should have said you did it deliberately to show how easy it is to rig a vote....
People are Fleeing AOS. Any clues as to why?
Godzilla?
The Barbarian
21-09-2014, 15:51
Try again
Sorry? Like I said, I don’t know what happened. I will see if I can rectify it, though :)
Marco.
Good afternoon gents.
Fairly long time, no see for most of us, I think.
This thread is interesting. It's been sparked off as a reaction to Marco's rage at what he calls the establishment abusing their power in order to rig a vote.
Well, perhaps an explanation is in order for this screenshot that I took about 8 minutes ago.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv198/mischab1/Theestablishmentcaughtriggingapoll.jpg
What's going on Marco?
'Vote early, vote often'.
surely we now need an independent investigation into whether Marco's error was deliberate or not? :-)
anyone want to start a petition?
You could not make this thread up .:lol:
surely we now need an independent investigation into whether Marco's error was deliberate or not? :-)
anyone want to start a petition?
Quality! :thumbsup: :D
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
21-09-2014, 18:29
Is this a fleeting visit or something more permanent? :)
No, just looking in to see how my friend Steve's thread about his CD player problems is progressing, saying hello to a few others, y'know.
No worries… As they say, mia casa e tua casa :)
Marco.
Accudazed
21-09-2014, 20:43
Politics and religion are always going to sit uncomfortably on a hifi forum.
Better to leave these often toxic topics to more appropriate forums and organisations.
Much as I love AoS, even I can see that in political terms it has no chance of changing anything. So why get AoS members at each others throats? It's not healthy.
Cheers
Steve
Hi Steve,
I’ll certainly take your points on board, but this is the off-topic section of the forum where (non-hifi related) matters can be discussed, including politics. There is no ban on discussing politics on AoS, simply that if they take place, they are carried out by participants in a friendly and respectful manner. Robust debates on any subject are always welcomed here.
If such discussions are of no interest to you, then the best thing is simply to ignore them and concentrate instead on others that do :)
Marco.
AoS has a tradition of hosting robust but friendly off topic debates. There have been some mammoth threads that have drifted wildly off topic on occasion. This is a community not just a message board and discussing non-hi-fi and music related subjects is a good way for people to become more familiar with each other. If a member, rather than Marco, had started the thread about alleged vote rigging it would have been allowed to stand in the same way. Anyone who is not interested need not read the thread in the same way as those who are not interested in the football need not read that thread.
This is a community not just a message board and discussing non-hi-fi and music related subjects is a good way for people to become more familiar with each other.
*That* is an extremely important point, Martin, and key to the AoS ethos. It’s often in the more emotive off-topic discussions that you find out what ‘makes people tick’... Like you say, that helps us get to know each other better, and so can only strengthen our community :)
The last thing AoS will ever be is some bland ‘bulletin board’, populated by dull, faceless ‘non-entities’, with no real names or locations, hiding behind a computer! :nono:
We like our members to ‘give of themselves’, show their true personalities (as long as they are friendly), and interact with others just as they would do in real life.
Marco.
Keep it the the abstract area and let rip I say...
Hi Steve,
I’ll certainly take your points on board, but this is the off-topic section of the forum where (non-hifi related) matters can be discussed, including politics. There is no ban on discussing politics on AoS, simply that if they take place, they are carried out by participants in a friendly and respectful manner. Robust debates on any subject are always welcomed here.
If such discussions are of no interest to you, then the best thing is simply to ignore them and concentrate instead on others that do :)
Marco.
In theory, practice and theory should be the same. In practice they are not. So the forum has non-hi-fi areas and are meant to be friendly - well and good I say. But this is not what has happened.
People have differing political ideas, which is fine. They can debate that if they wish; passionately within reason but should not take it home with them. As in a court of law, the councils argue, and at times belittle each others arguements, and at the end of day go for a meal with each other.
Let us just agree to respect others rights, after all we live in a democracy.....I think?
.... oh yes, and I aint really political......
losenotaminute
21-09-2014, 22:32
+1
Keep digging Marco, your credibility (like Salmond's) is now in the toilet.
In theory, practice and theory should be the same. In practice they are not. So the forum has non-hi-fi areas and are meant to be friendly - well and good I say. But this is not what has happened.
Andrei, you are free to read what you want, and also ignore what you want. It’s that simple. No forum will ever cater 100% for anyone's interests or sensibilities, so one must take the rough with the smooth :)
Marco.
+1
I think you'll find that Grant's views and mine are largely similar!
Lawrence, may I ask if you're Scottish or English? I know you live in Edinburgh, but that doesn't answer my question.
Marco.
Well I'm pretty vacant. And I don't care.
I would also draw people's attention again to Macca's post 32, as he hits the nail right on the head, and that is precisely why 'controversial topics' will always be allowed to be discussed here.
Marco.
losenotaminute
22-09-2014, 07:11
I think you'll find that Grant's views and mine are largely similar!
Lawrence, may I ask if you're Scottish or English? I know you live in Edinburgh, but that doesn't answer my question.
Marco.
I'm British, both in my heart and on my passport. I was born in NW England.
If anyone asks me my nationality I would say British and always have, partly out of respect for what Britain achieved as a Union largely through the talent (and blood) of the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish.
I'm British, both in my heart and on my passport. I was born in NW England.
If anyone asks me my nationality I would say British and always have, partly out of respect for what Britain achieved as a Union largely through the talent (and blood) of the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish.
Having a Scottish father and a mother of mixed English/Irish parentage, I can't really describe myself as anything other than British. I'd guess a large percentage of the population of the British Isles feel the same way, given the huge amount of migration between the separate nations over the past couple of centuries.
Gordon Steadman
22-09-2014, 08:00
My ancestry is English, Irish, Scots, Danish, Spanish and French (thankfully avoiding the Welsh:eyebrows:) . Maybe Great Europe is a good idea.
losenotaminute
22-09-2014, 08:03
Having a Scottish father and a mother of mixed English/Irish parentage, I can't really describe myself as anything other than British. I'd guess a large percentage of the population of the British Isles feel the same way, given the huge amount of migration between the separate nations over the past couple of centuries.
My grandfather on my father's side taught himself German when he was young, after he was kicked out of school for being a lost cause. His army duties included translating in WW2, in Belsen cleaning up the mess that extreme nationalism caused.
My grandfather on my father's side taught himself German when he was young, after he was kicked out of school for being a lost cause. His army duties included translating in WW2, in Belsen cleaning up the mess that extreme nationalism caused.
Indeed. Nationalism was the root cause of both WWI and WWII.
I'm British, both in my heart and on my passport. I was born in NW England.
If anyone asks me my nationality I would say British and always have, partly out of respect for what Britain achieved as a Union largely through the talent (and blood) of the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish.
Cool :)
Marco.
Indeed. Nationalism was the root cause of both WWI and WWII.
Contentious! have you swapped that Eng Lit MA for one in Modern History? ;)
I'd agree that nationalism was a factor, a 'root cause' is pushing it a bit, though.
Contentious! have you swapped that Eng Lit MA for one in Modern History? ;)
I'd agree that nationalism was a factor, a 'root cause' is pushing it a bit, though.
Over-stated, perhaps (in a sense most wars are between nations and are thus 'nationalistic') but the 'cause' of WWI was the conflict between Austrian imperialism and Serbian nationalism, with other nations/empires being drawn into the conflict because of treaty obligations.
Dave, you don’t half get on your high horse unnecessarily sometimes and exaggerate things! :doh:
Anyway, the fact is, there is ONE thread in Blank Canvas about the matter, and the remainder of it in the off-topic section, where such discussions belong, so I’d suggest that’s hardly “spamming the forum” with politics. Furthermore, that’s where the discussions will remain. The subject will not be raised anywhere else. You have my word on that.
The problem is (as has been evidenced by your contributions on the Scottish independence threads), you’d appear to rather just move on, brush any potential fraud/corruption under the carpet, and kid on it doesn’t exist, than ruffle any feathers by exposing it. In that respect, you appear to have your own agenda, as well as being a bit of a drama queen. Sorry, I have to be honest. “Members going to war”, FFS, mate, get a grip….
I’m afraid that (because I strongly believe that fraud has been committed, and that the referendum vote was rigged), I’m the exact opposite: I want to make as much NOISE AND FUSS as possible, and expose it as far as I’m able to, using my influence as a forum owner to draw people’s attention to the matter, in an effort to try and have the issue properly investigated by the relevant authorities.
Quite simply, if my efforts here add more names to the petition (and the numbers of people signing it are growing by the minute), and something good/constructive comes from that, then it’ll all have been worthwhile.
Simples! :)
Marco.
I see it this way, a forum and people can start a discussion or a debate about practically anything so long as it's posted in the correct section and that it's kept friendly, open, honest and fair with your cards placed firmly on the table.
I guess it's all about self discipline in to whether you join in on the debate or not. But fear not, Marco (or anyone else) won't black ball you if you don't take part or even vote against.
Personally, I don't get in to politics on forums very much... in the pub, yes... :) The written word can be misconstrued and with politics having a low melt down threshold for me those two ingredients are a bit of a Molotov. By starting a thread in defense of another thread can also cause just as much bad feeling so let's not go to war.
Marco, I simply expressed my agreement with what Joe has written above in his post, as can be plainly seen. Drama queen indeed... :lol: Play the ball not the man, eh?
I have no agenda BTW, although if I did it would probably err towards independence actually simply because of my ancestry. My gripe is with the tactics and the application of such during BOTH campaigns, neither of which have come out of this referendum covered in glory as a result. Mr Salmond obviously realised his tactics were suspect otherwise he would not have stood down from both his post as First Minister and as leader of the SNP, I also believe Alistair Darling should follow his lead btw.
The point of THIS thread is to determine whether members think airing potentially divisive and inflammatory political issues such as this are warranted on a hobbyist forum, no more, no less...
p.s. Have you deleted my justification for posting this thread from my blog or have you moved it elsewhere?
p.s. Have you deleted my justification for posting this thread from my blog or have you moved it elsewhere?
Surely not censorship?? Isn't that similar to discounting some votes (from the opposition) in a referendum?
Dave.
Marco has probably moved it to one of the 'referendum' threads, at least I hope he has ;)
p.s. Have you deleted my justification for posting this thread from my blog or have you moved it elsewhere?
It’s now post 2 here, as I didn’t want your rather fine system thread, in the Gallery, soiled with that ‘nonsense'! ;)
Marco.
Good afternoon gents.
Fairly long time, no see for most of us, I think.
This thread is interesting. It's been sparked off as a reaction to Marco's rage at what he calls the establishment abusing their power in order to rig a vote.
Well, perhaps an explanation is in order for this screenshot that I took about 8 minutes ago.
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv198/mischab1/Theestablishmentcaughtriggingapoll.jpg
What's going on Marco?
Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to be a PITA from all accounts, is this sorted now? Was there a fire drill? ;)
It’s now post 2 here, as I didn’t want your rather fine system thread, in the Gallery, soiled with that ‘nonsense'! ;)
Marco.
No problem, I suspected as much. Please tell me next time though as I nearly called The Daily Record... :D
Sometimes it is absolutely necessary to be a PITA from all accounts, is this sorted now? Was there a fire drill? ;)
Lol…Still don’t really know what happened. At the time, the forum was running painfully slow (for me anyway, as I don’t think my Mac laptop likes AOL), so when I jabbed at the voting button in my impatience for the page to load, it must’ve sent the info multiple times, instead of just once! :doh:
Marco.
No problem, I suspected as much. Please tell me next time though as I nearly called The Daily Record... :D
If you do, ask for ‘auld Annie’. Her and I go back a long way! :eyebrows:
Marco.
I feel PFM works well in the way it handles politics. There's some strange stuff spouted there but it's not the owner's hobby horse and any moderation is about keeping on topic or preventing court cases. The arguments get quite heated but somehow it's ok as everyone knows peoples' positions and lives with it. That situation is a million miles away from what's been happening here. When the forum owner tries to use the forum as a political instrument it ceases to be a forum. Locking a thread to prevent comments being made when he's out is too controlling. Marco, seriously....reign back on this, you're risking destroying your forum by going off on a bit of a bender. I say "your" forum but bear in mind all members are stakeholders in the forum and should be listened to.
I feel PFM works well in the way it handles politics. There's some strange stuff spouted there but it's not the owner's hobby horse and any moderation is about keeping on topic or preventing court cases. The arguments get quite heated but somehow it's ok as everyone knows peoples' positions and lives with it. That situation is a million miles away from what's been happening here. When the forum owner tries to use the forum as a political instrument it ceases to be a forum. Locking a thread to prevent comments being made when he's out is too controlling. Marco, seriously....reign back on this, you're risking destroying your forum by going off on a bit of a bender. I say "your" forum but bear in mind all members are stakeholders in the forum and should be listened to.
Well, quite. One wonders what, if anything, the forum moderators think of this.
Agreed Clive, this is my stance on the situation too. I have suggested to Marco that he create a Facebook page for the purpose thus enabling him to reach his intended audience without dragging the rest of the membership through the mud. I haven't heard from him on this one as yet.
Agreed Clive, this is my stance on the situation too. I have suggested to Marco that he create a Facebook page for the purpose thus enabling him to reach his intended audience without dragging the rest of the membership through the mud. I haven't heard from him on this one as yet.
I also think that it is very important that every member cast his or her vote on this thread for the reasons stated here...
Ali Tait
25-09-2014, 07:44
As long as it's not a rigged vote.. :lol:
As long as it's not a rigged vote.. :lol:
Oh, the irony... :D
I feel PFM works well in the way it handles politics. There's some strange stuff spouted there but it's not the owner's hobby horse and any moderation is about keeping on topic or preventing court cases. The arguments get quite heated but somehow it's ok as everyone knows peoples' positions and lives with it. That situation is a million miles away from what's been happening here. When the forum owner tries to use the forum as a political instrument it ceases to be a forum. Locking a thread to prevent comments being made when he's out is too controlling. Marco, seriously....reign back on this, you're risking destroying your forum by going off on a bit of a bender. I say "your" forum but bear in mind all members are stakeholders in the forum and should be listened to.
Clive, let’s get realistic: we’re talking about ONE thread (as the others in Abstract Chat relating to similar matters will drop off the page soon), supporting one specific political matter that I wish to keep alive only until the results of the signed petitions are sent to the respective authorities for investigation, where we will see what action, if any, is taken, and then that’ll be an end to the matter, and the ‘contentious' thread in question will die a similar death.
I have no intention of keeping this matter alive forever!
So what’s the big problem here - while it’s there, why can’t folk just bypass/ignore the thread concerned, if they aren’t interested/don’t agree with its content, just as they would do with any other other? What’s so ‘special’ about this one? And I would appreciate a proper answer to this.
The thread is open for anyone who wishes to contribute constructively in relation to the thread topic, so there’s no problem there. The only thing being stopped is input from people who are hell bent on continuing a pointless circular argument, where there isn’t going to be any winner. Therefore, the Government Corruption thread is simply being moderated in line with the ‘thread crapping’ clause applied to every other thread on the forum, during the appropriate circumstances.
The fact that some of you don’t agree with the content of the thread in question is not sufficient reason to remove or close it, lest we set a precedent in future for the same thing to happen anytime a few members don’t like the contents of a particular thread, which of course would be ridiculous. That would be the worst kind of censorship possible, so where do we draw the line?
In terms of the thread being locked in my absence, that was simply to avoid people taking advantage of that fact and using the opportunity to reignite the circular argument that was stopped, which is something that as a moderator (as well as owner of this forum), I am within my rights to do. If I could trust people to behave, and adhere to the warning I’d issued in that respect, then the thread would’ve been left open.
However, unfortunately that doesn’t appear to be the case, as this morning I had to remove posts from people who clearly cannot read…! :rolleyes:
I thought long and hard last night before going to bed whether I should lock the thread or not. I decided to leave it open, assuming that members would be mature enough to observe what I’d asked, but of course was proven wrong in that respect, when this morning I had to remove thread crapping posts, made in the early hours of the morning, so when I go out later today, the thread will once again be locked, as quite clearly, people can’t be trusted.
In summary, as everyone knows, I always listen to feedback from members, and act on it if I think it’s the right thing to do, but on the other hand I won’t be bullied into submission on this matter, simply because one thread exists here that doesn’t meet with certain people’s approval.
Marco.
I never read the pfm threads on political issues and very rarely read anything from the 'off topic' section (usually it is by accident if I do read anything). It's not that I don't care about politics and social issues, I certainly do - I just don't care what people who contribute to a hi-fi forum have to say about it (sounds harsh, but that's the bottom line).
Personally, I am 100% against the politicising of a forum such as this.
Marco, yes it's one thread but not all threads are created equal. There seem to be a number of people not comfortable with being guilty by association of what frankly is looking like views with a paranoid element. This isn't about something that doesn't matter too much, eg hifi...it's about something far more important. That's why sex, religion and politics are best avoided if you want a friendly forum.
Well, Clive I’m sorry, but I simply don’t agree that the thread in question comes into the same category. A friendly forum should be one where ALL views that are legal and within the rules should be welcomed, with contentious issues allowed to be discussed, and if necessary, moderated accordingly. That’s *exactly* what’s happening now on the Government Corruption thread.
If anyone else but me had been the OP, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
All I can see here is an over-reation from a small section of people who don’t agree with my stance on the matter of vote rigging/corruption, and in that respect simply want to apply censorship. Sorry, mate, but that’s not on.
Marco.
Now, I would appreciate an answer to this, as it appears to be the crux of the issue:
So what’s the big problem here - while it’s there, why can’t folk just bypass/ignore the thread concerned, if they aren’t interested/don’t agree with its content, just as they would do with any other other?
Marco.
Well, Clive I’m sorry, but I simply don’t agree that the thread in question comes into the same category. A friendly forum should be one where ALL views that are legal should be welcomed, with contentious issues allowed to be discussed, and if necessary, moderated accordingly. That’s *exactly* what’s happening now on the Government Corruption thread.
If anyone else but me had been the OP, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Would anyone else have the power to lock a thread while they popped out in case someone posted something they didn't like?
anyone but you couldn't have threatened a ban because you didn't like the argument or locked it whilst you went out
actions like that make it personal and have in my view damaged both your reputation and credibility. looking at responses over the two threads I don't believe I'm the only one to feel it. Still its your ball to take home.
anyone but you couldn't have threatened a ban because you didn't like the argument or locked it whilst you went out
Mark, it’s not a question of 'not liking' an argument.
There is a time when the protagonists in a debate simply don’t see eye to eye, and are never going to agree in a month of Sundays, and worse, when things are starting to get personal, so in that respect a decision has to be taken as to when ‘enough is enough’ (and that is taken either by myself or a moderator), or do you think that people should just be allowed to argue with each other until infinity, regardless of the consequences??
The fact is, if any other thread had been closed for the same reasons, other than the one in question, no-one would've batted an eyelid!
It’s that fact that the subject matter on the thread concerned doesn’t meet with the approval of certain people’s political sensibilities. *That* is the problem - and I’m sorry I simply don’t think it’s a good enough reason to apply censorship, no matter if some of you are stamping your feet up and down in consternation, because censorship is precisely what it boils down to, and that’s a very slippery road to go down.
Marco.
Does anyone other than fellow admin team members think this whole 'political corruption' series of threads has been well handled? If so please post here to say so and support the embattled ........ - insert your own word here 'cos I can't think of an appropriate and acceptable one.
Dave.
Mark, it’s not a question of not liking an argument. However, there is a time when the protagonists in a debate simply don’t see eye to eye, and are never going to agree in a month of Sundays, and worse, when things are starting to get personal, so in that respect a decision has to be taken as to when ‘enough is enough’ (and that is done either by myself or a moderator), or do you think that people should just be allowed to argue with each other until infinity??.
The point is not about simply locking a thread - that happens on all forums for all sorts of reasons. The problem is you locking a thread, then re-opening it when you feel like it, and deleting anything that doesn't suit your own position, as well as threatening bans left right and centre. It seems that you're the only one who can't see this as problematical, which in itself speaks volumes.
walpurgis
25-09-2014, 09:02
So what’s the big problem here - while it’s there, why can’t folk just bypass/ignore the thread concerned, if they aren’t interested/don’t agree with its content, just as they would do with any other other? What’s so ‘special’ about this one? Marco.
Exactly!
The same applies if Marco's temporary 'locking' of a thread bothers you. Walk on by and look at something else. Like it or not, despite the generally democratic stance of AOS, it is Marco's baby and he is free to administer the site to his liking. We should abide by that.
That’s because, Joe, that’s fundamentally not what’s happening. Furthermore, there was only one person threatened with a ban, and he has a history of not knowing when to back off and simply ‘agree to disagree’.
Read my previous posts on this thread, as all is explained in there. At the end of the day, the moderators and I are entitled to lock/delete/reopen any thread here when we consider that such action is necessary - and the membership simply have to abide by that decision whether they like it or not.
I don’t see you giving Tony Lonorgan such grief on pfm when his team and him do precisely the same thing! ;)
Marco.
Exactly!
The same applies if Marco's temporary 'locking' of a thread bothers you. Walk on by and look at something else. Like it or not, despite the generally democratic stance of AOS, it is Marco's baby and he is free to administer the site to his liking. We should abide by that.
So the moderators will always agree with Marco because the site's 'his baby'? Thanks for the clarification.
And what do Markus, Joe, et al, do on pfm, in respect of Tony L?
The fact is, at the end of the day someone has to make the decisions here, and ultimately that person is me, the same as applies with the owner of any other forum. The fact that we allow members to voice their opinions here so vociferously, and challenge decisions made, and listen to our members, up to a reasonable point, is a privilege, not an automatic right - so please don’t abuse that privilege.
No other forum, in that respect, allows its members such latitude.
Marco.
Exactly!
The same applies if Marco's temporary 'locking' of a thread bothers you. Walk on by and look at something else. Like it or not, despite the generally democratic stance of AOS, it is Marco's baby and he is free to administer the site to his liking. We should abide by that.
the irony of you effectively telling us we post in a dictatorship whilst in a thread about political corruption.
Marco if you really want this to be seen as fair and equal (even if its only an illusion) you really need to step back from moderating these threads and let someone else do so in line with forum rules.
Otherwise you're just casting yourself in the same light as those you denigrate. Like or not that damages your credibility which does not help with the arguments you are attempting to make.
On another matter I also object to your consistent implication that an Englishman can't have the best interests of the Scots in mind.
the irony of you effectively telling us we post in a dictatorship whilst in a thread about political corruption.
That’s just bollocks. Are you unable to understand the fact that ultimately you have to respect the wishes of the moderators and owner on ANY forum? That is not dictatorship. It is simple plain reality!!
Marco.
Marco, as forum owner and leader you set the ethos for the forum. Your stance has therefore politicised the forum.
Now, I still haven’t received a satisfactory answer to this question:
So what’s the big problem here - while it’s there, why can’t folk just bypass/ignore the thread concerned, if they aren’t interested/don’t agree with its content, just as they would do with any other other?
Is the answer because that’s too easy? ;)
Marco.
I think I'll just ignore/bypass the forum.
Marco, as forum owner and leader you set the ethos for the forum. Your stance has therefore politicised the forum.
Again gross exaggeration. How can the contents of ONE thread (which in reality will only exist for a short time) ‘politicise’ the forum?
Marco.
Read my comment about being guilty by association and add in my one above. Think of the forum as a club with are ethos you are in charge of.
Anyway....I've said my bit now.
I think I'll just ignore/bypass the forum.
Be my guest, because the only reason you come here is to try and wind people up (be an irritant), which is precisely how you behave on any other forum you frequent, apart from your favourite one, pfm. I note how you’ve conveniently ignored my question in relation to Tony L.
Marco.
Read my comment about being guilty by association and add in my one above. Think of the forum as a club with are ethos you are in charge of.
So you’re advocating censorship, then? Where do we draw the line in future, in terms of deciding which topics should be allowed to be discussed or not?
Anyway....I've said my bit now.
And it’s reaching the point now where I’ve said mine, and have allowed folks to have their say without it reaching the stage of taking them taking piss! ;)
Marco.
The fact is, at the end of the day someone has to make the decisions here, and ultimately that person is me, the same as applies with the owner of any other forum. The fact that we allow members to voice their opinions here so vociferously and challenge decisions made, and listen to our members, up to a reasonable point, is a privilege, not an automatic right - so please don’t abuse that privilege.
No other forum, in that respect, allows its members such latitude.
Right, enough is enough, we’re going round in circles here, so I’m invoking the circular argument clause and bringing this one to an end.
I would ask that all members read the above and absorb it, or in future, in line with ALL other forums on the Internet, the ability to critique AoS and the decisions made by its owner and moderators will not be available to you.
Marco.
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