Bored

[ljubomir]

i have an old LP12,a Nait 3,Linn Mimik cd,Linn keilidh,bi-wired, with Linn kx 4000 cable,its all bit old,I know.I have a big room 8mx4m.Musically its just not that involving,bass is a bit tiring.I listen to varied stuff,soul,dance,rock,no particular genre.I want a bit more oomph and clarity.I play mostly vinyl,cause I luurve it,even though it sometimes sounds like there is a curtain in front of my speakers.
Question-where should I start?
Like most hi-fi bods,I have a loft full of old speakers and amps,etc.But nothing much to write home about and as you can see I haven't spent a fortune,as my way of thinking is you don't have to,maybe I am wrong.I just think a hi-fi dealer,these days, will suggest what they have in stock,without offering you a cheaper and probably better solution
Went to a hi-fi shop the other day and they suggested a naim xs2 or supernait 2,there is no way I have that kind of dosh to blow on a new amp.
Any ideas,where I should make an obvious start?,what I should get.
I know it only takes a minute to bag it and bin it,but I would like to do little by little.
Thanks all.

[Audio Al]

Introduced in 1972, the Sondek LP12 was Linn’s first product. Launched at a time when amplifiers and loudspeakers were seen as being most critical to the performance of any system, the Sondek LP12 showed that extracting more information from the record itself had the biggest effect on the quality of the music system.

For over 40 years, each component has been continuously improved to extract even more information from a vinyl record.

Designed to be completely modular and upgradeable, the Sondek LP12 is available as a separate deck, to which customers can add their preferred sub-chassis, base, motor control, tonearm and cartridge.

It can be customised to any performance level with Linn’s range of turntable separates,

At the heart of the Sondek LP12 is Linn’s patented low-noise, single-point bearing. This advanced yet simple bearing design ensures the smooth motion of the turntable and eliminates noise to ensure that all you hear is the music.

The high mass, perfectly balanced, belt-driven platter maintains speed stability, while the solid wood plinth, suspended sub-chassis and stable arm platform combine to provide freedom from vibration and acoustic feedback.
The combination of these precision-engineered components creates a turntable with an unequalled ability to provide pitch-accurate, faithful reproduction of your cherished vinyl collection.

The LP12 is a well respected TT , have you serviced this unit and fitted a new belt ?

[Audio Al]

Do the Keilidh's include KuStone bases?

What arm and cartridge are you using ?

[ljubomir]

Just had my deck serviced.
The speakers are on the linn stone bases.
Maybe the problem is the linn basik arm and an ortofon red stylus.
I have kids and I did have a better linn stylus,but I came home one day to find them playing with it,it never sounded the same after that,so I thought of damage limitation.
What are your thoughts?.
Thanks very much for your replies.
I want to become more enlightened.

[ljubomir]

When I picked up my turntable,after being serviced I was told the nait 3 was underpowered unable drive the speakers to their full potential.

[Audio Al]

When I picked up my turntable,after being serviced I was told the nait 3 was underpowered unable drive the speakers to their full potential.

Was the arm and Cartridge fitted when it was serviced ? Did they inspect the cart and set the tracking weight ?

If the cart was fitted surely they would have noticed if the cart was damaged ?

[Geoff101]

Aren't Keilidhs only 82db/w? If so then a Nait 3 is going to struggle a bit.

[ljubomir]

Thanks for that reply.
The next question is,what amp should I be looking at that doesn't break the bank.
Really appreciate you advice on this issue.

[ljubomir]

Sorry Al,
In reply to your post,yes the cartridge and tracking are checked and all was done in the service.The damage was done to a previous cartridge hence me getting the ortofon red some time ago.

[walpurgis]

Thanks for that reply.
The next question is,what amp should I be looking at that doesn't break the bank.
Really appreciate you advice on this issue.

Spending how much?

[ljubomir]

I know its a million dollar question.But how much would I need to spend on a moving scale,I didn't want to spend more than £700,really.
Thanks

[ljubomir]

And am happy to buy good second hand equipment.

[MikeMusic]

Good move. Opens up your horizon very nicely.

If you can get to another AoSr in London to hear one or a few working that should help

[walpurgis]

If you're not far from me Peter, pop over some time and have a listen to a variety of amps driving my big Tannoys. I promise you've never heard a system like this one.

I'm about to be on holiday for a spell, but you'd be welcome after.

Where in London are you anyway?

[Macca]

What sounds better the LP12 or the CD player? If both are unimpressive then I would look at changing speakers and/or amp. if CD sounds better might be worth getting a new/better cartridge and keeping the kids away from it :)

It is a big room and you have insensitive speakers and a relatively low-powered amp, not a good combination unless you listen near-field. What do you have in the loft? Get it all out, photograph it and sell it on here, that will increase the available budget a bit.

[ljubomir]

Thats a very kind offer I live in Dulwich
The cd player sounds better than the lp12.
But only just.
I do listen further away than the distance between the speakers,also.

[tapid]

Theres been some fab reviews of the tis bury passive pre at not much more than 130 notes, could be a place to start ?

[ljubomir]

Thanks for that advice,how would the tisbury work with my set up?.

[MikeMusic]

Thats a very kind offer I live in Dulwich
The cd player sounds better than the lp12.
But only just.
I do listen further away than the distance between the speakers,also.

Not quite right then IMO

[hifi_dave]

You need to get out and about. Take your speakers and amp along to a friendly dealer and do some swops. In that way you will know what is wrong and how to put it right.

You are welcome here but it might be a bit of a trek for you.

[walpurgis]

Thanks for that advice,how would the tisbury work with my set up?.

I don't see a place in your system for the Tisbury passive pre-amp. The Tisbury is a stepped attenuator device acting basically just as a volume control. It won't sound that much different to a potentiometer type passive. Results from passives are very variable and depend a great deal on what power amp they are used with.

[ljubomir]

Thanks for the advice.
I would love to come and have a listen to your set-up,when you return from your holidays.

Peter

[ljubomir]

In the meantime,I would like some advice on a amplifier upgrade and as previously mentioned,second hand is ok with me.l would at least like try to get the best out of the speakers,maybe I am wrong.Any thoughts boys?.

[Audio Al]

In the meantime,I would like some advice on a amplifier upgrade and as previously mentioned,second hand is ok with me.l would at least like try to get the best out of the speakers,maybe I am wrong.Any thoughts boys?.

Are the speakers working correctly ?

I would pop out the drivers and tweeters and put a meter across them making sure each one meter out to the required spec Ohms wise also check the cones / foams are all good and not deteriorating

[walpurgis]

Creek Destiny 2!

It has everything. The sound, plenty of power, you name it!


Loads of good reviews too. Here's a couple:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/creek-audio-destiny-integrated-amplifier-page-2

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/news/article/creek-destiny-2--pound;1749/9718


You may just pick a used one up with your potential budget.

It's what I'd be after if I wanted another integrated amp.

[ljubomir]

Thanks for the advice,I am going to check my speakers out and I will keep an eye open for a second hand amp.any other thoughts?.
I was also looking at the cost of the tannoy DCT 6 speakers,as they were mentioned earlier in the post,they seem a reasonable price.
I have the bit between my teeth,now.
Amp or speakers,Speakers or Amp.Sell the car and buy both and use London transport.Sell my house and buy a valve amp.I am dazed and confused
Thanks
Peter

[ljubomir]

What you find upstairs,eh.
I read earlier in a post about technics SL 1200s being a good turntable,I have a mk2 and a Nu-mark ,I used these when I was a pretend house Dj,as in I used them in my house.At the time I liked the nu-mark,as you could play it in reverse,thats how weird I am,it was great for dance music and mixing.I never thought of the technics being anything but a turntable for mixing,maybe I am wrong.How good or bad are they,like I have mentioned I have an LP12,I imagine a lot has to do with arm and cartridge.Would be great to know your thoughts though.And thanks all,I am really enjoying myself,even if I am being a pain.Most of my friends,all three of them just don't get obsessions.But I am a furniture/cabinet maker and in my game,its either right or wrong and I work to fine tolerances,where most people would not bother,hence,my obsessiveness.I almost fell asleep reading my own post.zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Audio Al]

Peter , walk before you run , you will save lots of money , Check out each item before jumping in and spending money , The Techy is a super TT :eyebrows:

[ljubomir]

Thanks Al,
I know,your right,I was only thinking about giving the deck a dust off and trying it out,as its gathering dust on its cover,to be honest I forgot I had it, thought it might sound better than the LP12 and then I would be saving money and if not I can sell it and put the money towards my amp.

[chelsea]

I'd look at changing the speakers first

[ljubomir]

What speakers would you suggest.
Thanks for the advice.
Peter

[walpurgis]

I'd look at changing the speakers first

If Peter is looking at Tannoy DC6T speakers, I'd suggest changing the amp at the same time. I can just imagine what the Nait 3 will sound like through them. It won't be a good combination, as the Tannoys reveal amplifier 'characteristics' (flaws?) rather well. A smooth, transparent and powerful amp would be nice, which is why I suggested the Creek.

Resurrecting the SL-1200 sounds a good move. It has great potential and a few tweaks should have it singing.

[chelsea]

Ah missed the tannoy bit.
I agree,change the amp as well if you got to the tannoys

[ljubomir]

Thanks Geoff,
Probably won't pick up a second hand Creek,are they about £1700,new?.
I was reading a report on NVA amps that sound promising,do you rate those?.Or am I just confusing the issue.
Good news about the SL 1200,thanks once again.

[walpurgis]

I've only tried one NVA amp and that was the smallish integrated (can't recall the model number). I have to say that to me it sounded rather like a Nait. Not an amp I'd choose myself.

If you don't want to spend as much as the cost of a used Destiny 2 (probably around £800/900), I'd suggest a second hand Sugden A21a, it'll give you some of the best sounding Class A amplification around, but it will need sensitive speakers. Mind you, the previously mentioned Tannoy DC6T should work OK at 89db sensitivity and match nicely soundwise.

Here's a DC6T review: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/floor-standing-speakers/floor-standing-speakers-reviews/tannoy-revolution-dc6t-floor-standing-speakers.html

[southall-1998]

NVA amplification is utterly revealing and transparent.

S.

[ljubomir]

You guys are Great!.The speakers seem like a good buy
Thanks for all your time
Peter

[Macca]

What you find upstairs,eh.
I read earlier in a post about technics SL 1200s being a good turntable,I have a mk2 and a Nu-mark ,I used these when I was a pretend house Dj,as in I used them in my house.At the time I liked the nu-mark,as you could play it in reverse,thats how weird I am,it was great for dance music and mixing.I never thought of the technics being anything but a turntable for mixing,maybe I am wrong.How good or bad are they,like I have mentioned I have an LP12,I imagine a lot has to do with arm and cartridge.Would be great to know your thoughts though.And thanks all,I am really enjoying myself,even if I am being a pain.Most of my friends,all three of them just don't get obsessions.But I am a furniture/cabinet maker and in my game,its either right or wrong and I work to fine tolerances,where most people would not bother,hence,my obsessiveness.I almost fell asleep reading my own post.zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

You are a cabinet maker? Then build your own speakers - plenty of kits and plans out there you will end up with something that would cost thousands to buy ready made for just hundreds. Plenty of people here who are experienced enough to offer advise and assistance if you need it, too.

As far as the Technics goes, replace the stock mat and the stock headshell and stick a decent MM cart on it and you will have a good counterpoint to your LP12. Or sell it, should fetch £200 to £300 depending on cosmetic condition.

[hifi_dave]

Don't buy anything until you've sorted out what is wrong with your present set up.

[Elephantears]

If you are in Dulwich then I could pop over with some more powerful amps one evening to see if the under-powered Nait 3 is the issue. For example, I have an Onix 24/601, which is of the same era as a lot of your equipment and fits with the style. The 601 is similar to a NAP 250 in design and power, so should fit well with your speakers. If that didn't sound any better you should be able to rule out the amps as the source of your discontent.

[ljubomir]

Thats really very kind of you Andrew.And yes!I would like to take you up on your offer.
Many thanks

Peter

[Elephantears]

Ok Peter, just send me a pm with your phone number and I'll be in touch soon.

[m10]

My thoughts when reading this thread were that if there are speakers up in the loft, then it may be worth trying some of them out. If the Keilidhs bass presentation is too hard for your current tastes, you might have something with a slightly more relaxed presentation that - allowing you to enjoy more of your music with no cash outlay - will give you space and time to try other options further up the chain (and other new speakers like the Tannoys).

[ljubomir]

Thanks Malcolm,
Bass presentation,could be a lot better,I wouldn't say its too hard.

[ljubomir]

Thanks,
I will keep that in mind.
Peter