View Full Version : The Interesting Loudspeaker Thread
Two drivers in a little box? Boring. And we hear plenty about the big Tannoy DC and QUAD ESL. But what else is out there, old or new?
I'll kick off with this one - The Frazier Model Eleven:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/FrazierModel112.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/FrazierModel112.jpg.html)
Check out this thread about them on Audiokarma:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=611400
Enormous cabs using a 12 inch, a 15 inch, 4 paper midrange and two piezo tweeters per side. The twelve inch covers the bass frequencies up to 400 Hz. The fifteen is run full range so overlaps the bass and the mids. It would seem the theory us that the 12 inch will give tighter low bass than the fifteen hence the non-intuitive arrangement. Two 2-way crossovers per side which apparently increases power handling and reduces distortion. The tweeters don't need a crossover. Claimed useful response down to 16 Hz! Claimed sensitivity 106 dB! Wouldn't mind giving these a go but it is unlikely that any pairs made it this side of the pond. They cost the bloke on AK just eighty dollars...big and ugly so no-one wants them anymore in their ridiculous 'lifestyle' homes so they go cheap as chips to the true cogniscenti.
walpurgis
14-09-2014, 09:26
The imaging is likely to be odd and anything with cheap Piezo tweeters is a no, no, in my view.:eyebrows:
istari_knight
14-09-2014, 09:27
Those all look like Goodmans drivers to me.
walpurgis
14-09-2014, 09:34
These Technics SB-9500 are more like it!
http://i61.tinypic.com/30a7upy.jpg
istari_knight
14-09-2014, 09:42
So what are they ? 5ft tall ? ;)
The imaging is likely to be odd and anything with cheap Piezo tweeters is a no, no, in my view.:eyebrows:
Piezos always get a bad rap, a little unfairly in my view. In any case in a speaker like that they will not be doing much except adding to the very top end - the fifteen and the mids will be producing 95% of what you hear above the bass frequencies.
The bass driver is an EMT. apparently.
I've used those actual piezo horn loaded tweeters before and can confirm that they are nasty crap.
walpurgis
14-09-2014, 10:15
A pair of these Altec A2 VOTTs would definitely be interesting
http://i61.tinypic.com/2obnl.jpg
With drive units implementation is everything. You can get the bestest, most expensive driver in the world to sound like shit if you don't use it properly. Read the thread on AK the owner was sceptical about them at first but doesn't have too many complaints about them. It is a flagship design, they would not ruin it for the sake of a couple of tweeters.
I think the Soundkaos Wave 40 is an interesting design (in every way):
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/soundkaos/1.html
http://www.soundkaos.com/styled/styled-5/files/waveback.jpg
I heard them recently at the Manchester Cranage Hall show and was quite underwhelmed - definately intended for listening to small ensembles and ant quite a low level IMO - still a very interesting design though.
With drive units implementation is everything. You can get the bestest, most expensive driver in the world to sound like shit if you don't use it properly.
I agree, but no matter what you do to a poor driver you can't make it transcend its inherant limitations. I can't speak for this other chaps experience but when we used them (as he does, connected without crossover) they sounded awful; that is my, first hand, experience.
walpurgis
14-09-2014, 10:46
I tried a couple out of curiosity years ago and they were dreadful. They're commonly seen in cheap 'disco' type speakers and invariably sound awful (scratchy treble with very prominent horn colouration and seemingly not much top extension).
Mmmmm....have to say Yep +1 too
Well my experience with using the Motorola piezos was that they can sound acceptable. What we all consider 'acceptable' will vary, naturally. I thought the lack of a need for a crossover plus the high power handling was worth the trade off given that the design spec of the speaker was that the tweeters should be indestructible. They sounded better than I thought they would, anyway.
I think the Soundkaos Wave 40 is an interesting design (in every way):
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/soundkaos/1.html
http://www.soundkaos.com/styled/styled-5/files/waveback.jpg
I heard them recently at the Manchester Cranage Hall show and was quite underwhelmed - definately intended for listening to small ensembles and ant quite a low level IMO - still a very interesting design though.
A case of fashion leading design methinks. With a baffle shape like that, diffraction is likely to be problematical and audibly so.
Some more reading:
http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
Cubes, cylinder ends and to a lesser extent, ovals, don't make the best baffle shapes for loudspeakers.
I should say that I'm not promoting this speaker or the ideas it extols, just that they are interesting. The cabinet is very light weight and built with the idea that it is an instrument in itself - it's attached to the stand via the drive unit mounting and the drive unit is mounted to the stand. The cabinet has very minimal panel damping. It was conceived as a full range single driver speaker but ended up being a two way.
It's an interesting design but it seems a little odd to create what is basically a very bad shape for a baffle then model it to (expensively no doubt) work out the ripples then needed to be added on the baffle front to reduce cancellation or comb-filtering.
I can see the attraction of curved shapes but the whole "instrument" thing is a bit of a worn cliche as for the most part you don't rally want a speaker cabinet to be resonating and a better way if you like to mimic an instrument curve might be in the horizontal plane where it can do some good! Saying that, there are various examples of speakers designed to resonate, including AN, Harbeth, Vienna Acoustics and others. It's down to what they do well that eventually sets them apart but for the most part, I would rate what those examples do well as lying outside of the influence of the significant areas of cabinet resonance.
It's an interesting design but it seems a little odd to create what is basically a very bad shape for a baffle then model it to (expensively no doubt) work out the ripples then needed to be added on the baffle front to reduce cancellation or comb-filtering.
.
Yes £15k euros expensively. Personally I'd rather have the big banger with the crappy piezo tweeters for 80 bucks but that's just me :) Although I think any speaker design that gets the crossover(s) out of the mid band is always of interest.
Yes £15k euros expensively. Personally I'd rather have the big banger with the crappy piezo tweeters for 80 bucks but that's just me :) Although I think any speaker design that gets the crossover(s) out of the mid band is always of interest.
The only crossovers which I have found tend to strangle the music are higher order, particularly 4th order. 1st and 2nd (and even 3rd) order x-overs well designed shouldn't really get in the way. Better to go active I think if anything over 3rd order is required. The compromises and drawbacks otherwise tend to kill the benefits. Getting phase matched between drive units is always a bit of a juggling act, but even that (if close enough) can pale into insignificance compared with other effects of chucking two or more inductors into the signal path for any one given driver. Depends entirely on the driver too. Some may well work best with very simple filtering by design whilst a great many (IME) absolutely need to be used within their sweet spot (band) as running them above or below adds little positive. There are a few midbass units now in production that can be used without additional filter slopes due to the steep natural acoustic slopes but for the most part, their cone break up still requires notch filtering to avoid unwanted distortion (although this doesn't lie directly in the signal path). You can add damping compounds for this but the additional mass this results in can bring its own problems, particularly for larger drivers. These days, there are some naturally well damped materials (woven polypropelyne being just one)
I wouldn't actually want to own or use either of the speakers mentioned so far.
As Paul says, the Soundkaos speakers are very fashionable - I think he meant in terms of the look but if you look at the design trends developing in the single driver market they are very much a mixture of everything that is fashionable in the extreme left field world of speaker design.
I agree that low mass, highly resonant cabinets are a flawed idea.
What I meant was it is better not to be moving from one driver to another in the midband where you are most likely to hear the transition.
I like the idea of the JBL M2. A fifteen up to 800Hz then a compression driver does the rest. If I came into some money these are what I would be looking at, although they are not that expensive in the scheme of things:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/jblm2.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/jblm2.jpg.html)
Some blurb:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M2System/
The only crossovers which I have found tend to strangle the music are higher order, particularly 4th order. 1st and 2nd (and even 3rd) order x-overs well designed shouldn't really get in the way. Better to go active I think if anything over 3rd order is required. The compromises and drawbacks otherwise tend to kill the benefits. Getting phase matched between drive units is always a bit of a juggling act, but even that (if close enough) can pale into insignificance compared with other effects of chucking two or more inductors into the signal path for any one given driver. Depends entirely on the driver too. Some may well work best with very simple filtering by design whilst a great many (IME) absolutely need to be used within their sweet spot (band) as running them above or below adds little positive. There are a few midbass units now in production that can be used without additional filter slopes due to the steep natural acoustic slopes but for the most part, their cone break up still requires notch filtering to avoid unwanted distortion (although this doesn't lie directly in the signal path). You can add damping compounds for this but the additional mass this results in can bring its own problems, particularly for larger drivers. These days, there are some naturally well damped materials (woven polypropelyne being just one)
Drive unit development is very technology led and, for the most part, material technology has led to cones with a greater stiffness. However, there is no free lunch and when such cones do start to break up it is often in a very energetic manner - without high order slopes or quite wide Q notch filters their output is bound to colour the sound (I'm thinking here of some of the SEAS Excel drivers for example). Don't you think?
What I meant was it is better not to be moving from one driver to another in the midband where you are most likely to hear the transition.
I like the idea of the JBL M2. A fifteen up to 800Hz then a compression driver does the rest.
Surely 800Hz is in the midrange and if a low order crossover is used there will be significant output well beyond that.
BTH K10A
14-09-2014, 14:07
What I meant was it is better not to be moving from one driver to another in the midband where you are most likely to hear the transition.
I like the idea of the JBL M2. A fifteen up to 800Hz then a compression driver does the rest. If I came into some money these are what I would be looking at, although they are not that expensive in the scheme of things:
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/jblm2.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/jblm2.jpg.html)
Some blurb:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M2System/
The M2 is nice, I've looked into buying a pair but, by design it is a speaker/amp package as the DC compression driver requires the DSP built into the Crown amps.
The Array 1400 has more flexibility and is half the price. ;)
Better still are some nice vintage speakers like:
Westrex Acoustilens
Westrex 2326A
Vitavox CN191
BTH K10A
RCA LM1
or from the USA
JBL C50 SM S8
JBL Hartsfield
RCA LC1
Jensen Imperial
Lancing Iconic
:yay:
Drive unit development is very technology led and, for the most part, material technology has led to cones with a greater stiffness. However, there is no free lunch and when such cones do start to break up it is often in a very energetic manner - without high order slopes or quite wide Q notch filters their output is bound to colour the sound (I'm thinking here of some of the SEAS Excel drivers for example). Don't you think?
I agree entirely Mark. I've experimented with various new (higher end) drive units and tried all without filtering. The results were not usable. Notch filtering improved things a lot, but not as much as going 2nd order plus notch filter. I try and limit designs to 2nd order if at all possible as it means that great quality but less expensive drivers and (ultimately) crossover components costs and complexity are incurred. I agree with Martin that using a driver throughout the mid band is the best idea. Unfortunately so few exist that cover this range really well.
That said, some of the cleanest sounding lower mid and bass responses can be had with these new ultra light and ultra stiff cone designs but ONLY where deep notch filters are applied to kill their inevitable high breakup resonance. Look at the SEAS EXCEL series W18EX for instance. A fabulous driver in its own right but with a real sting in its tale at 5KHz of +15dB breakup resonance. This really needs a 3rd order slope from 2KHz plus a notch filter otherwise just over an octave up, the resonance will start to intrude.
Most people would be surprised that possibly the most sensitive band as far as our hearing goes extends as deep as 250Hz and up to say 3 to 3.5KHz. Few drivers cover this range really well. Most designs are compromised but the magnitude of that compromise can be limited to very acceptable levels with good crossover design. You can get (more or less) a very seamless crossover. One trick I've employed in the past which works really well is to use a reverse F-M curve response although this has to (necessarily) be referenced to a specific SPL for design. I chose around 85dB at the listening position and engineered a slight drop in a lower driver's response below crossover, within the mid band, and did the same for the tweeter, doing the blending some 5dB down across half an octave or so at 85dB. The result was that whilst measurement suggests flat is best, actually having this drop in mid sensitivity, especially across the crossover region, can be very beneficial as we hear it more as a flat response plus it reduces perceived crossover effects. Not easy to get right. The BBC used to use a similar principle with some of their monitor designs, notably with the LS3/5A.
These are the most interesting (and best sounding) speakers I've had in this room. I've had a lot!
http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/84811d1335554987-impulse-blh-h2-2.jpg
Surely 800Hz is in the midrange and if a low order crossover is used there will be significant output well beyond that.
Agreed it is in the midrange but way below the area of most sensitivity. The M2 uses a digital active crossover built into the amps it comes with. I've read all the technical blurb and recall about 10% of it but I'd guess the fifteen is rolled off quite steeply.
Experimenting with the crossover slopes that can be programmed in with my own active crossover has been very instructive. Normally the bass driver rolls out 2nd order at 500Hz. This technically lifts the mid but altering the crossover point to nearer 400Hz and making the crossover steeper significantly cleans up the mid. The overall response isn't quite as flat (though transition at crossover is very linear) but the subjective effect of hearing the output of just one driver is much less coloured.
These are the most interesting (and best sounding) speakers I've had in this room. I've had a lot!
http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/84811d1335554987-impulse-blh-h2-2.jpg
H2's are a great design and still sound fab today imho. Can be a little room fussy but if they work for your room, you have a fantastic set of loudspeakers.
Surely 800Hz is in the midrange and if a low order crossover is used there will be significant output well beyond that.
It is and there will be. Whether it's significant depends upon the natural acoustic roll off the drivers exhibit. Tannoys for example have a low crossover (electrically at just over a KHz) and the bass is 2nd order but behaves more acoustically like a 3rd order (or slightly steeper) from around 2KHz. The slope isn't very linear but Tannoy concentrated on creating a large notch at 3kHz as the horn resonance was perceived to be more problematical (which in truth it probably was). I don't really agree that 800Hz is way below the most sensitive area. I've done a lot of measuring and listening and believe me, 800Hz is a VERY sensitive area of hearing. It is typically an area where a hell of a lot of vocals cross for one thing and any lift (with distortion) at this point is immediately noticeable.
I'm suggesting that if you have to crossover a 2-way then crossing over at 800Hz would be better than doing it at 1KHz or 3.5Khz if your drivers will allow it?
Agreed it is in the midrange but way below the area of most sensitivity. The M2 uses a digital active crossover built into the amps it comes with. I've read all the technical blurb and recall about 10% of it but I'd guess the fifteen is rolled off quite steeply.
Yeah, just read the link and it reminded me that I've looked at their smaller model in this range. As you say, they use an active crossover built into the amps (digital I think) and their blurb suggests steep crossover slopes (to me).
Floyddroid
14-09-2014, 15:15
Now ya torquing!
These Technics SB-9500 are more like it!
http://i61.tinypic.com/30a7upy.jpg
walpurgis
14-09-2014, 15:26
A fifteen up to 800Hz then a compression driver does the rest.
Might as well have Monitor Golds then! :)
Might as well have Monitor Golds then! :)
If I ever get some M2 we will have a bake-off, JBL vs Tannoy, clash of the titans - we'll sell it to Sky pay per view :) Not likely to happen but my syndicate has 21 tickets in this weekends lotteries so you never know...
BTH K10A
14-09-2014, 15:32
I'm suggesting that if you have to crossover a 2-way then crossing over at 800Hz would be better than doing it at 1KHz or 3.5Khz if your drivers will allow it?
The M2 is a 3 way speaker, Bass driver + dual diaphragm compression driver (D2) and I think the crossover point is determined by thr D2 driver
2 Way crossed over at between 500 & 650Hz tend to give the best results but then you need a really good driver to cover the upper part of the equation.
I'm suggesting that if you have to crossover a 2-way then crossing over at 800Hz would be better than doing it at 1KHz or 3.5Khz if your drivers will allow it?
The upper frequency, certainly Martin and I do see where you're coming from, but in reality even 800Hz is in a band likely to be very sensitive. The point I'm trying to (badly!) make is that driver choice and crossover design are both critical (as is cabinet design) and that you can have equally audible distortion at 800Hz with some drivers as you can at 2KHz. Better to cross over lower than 800 or higher than around 2 to 2.5KHz if at all possible. Easier with a 3 way than a two way to do this but then it has it's own challenges, not least time alignment.
Many vintage designs use 2 way layouts with large bass drivers. In such cases, the designers usually try to pick the best compromises for crossover frequency and design but can do little to mask the off-axis step response differences such radical layouts result in if crossed over much above 500 Hz. Tannoy manage it by using the curved woofer surface as part of a mid range horn so behaves more like a 3 way. People can get too hung up on the crossover frequencies when things like phase and dispersion/lobing are equally as important when listening.
The latter point I think is more important than getting the crossover above 3khz because its the one aspect which will be clearly audible if drivers haven't been carefully matched. I'd rather have a crossover at 2KHz and run the tweeter as low as it can handle the power to benefit from superior off axis performance (dispersion). This also helps a little to reduce the beaming effect running woofers too high and improves imaging and the size of the listening "sweet spot". Once you get above a certain size, it's impossible to do...that's physics for you. That's why a good many coherent 2 way designs use nothing larger than a 10 inch, preferably an 8 inch woofer.
These are the most interesting (and best sounding) speakers I've had in this room. I've had a lot!
http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/diy-og-utvikling-ha-yttalere-forsterkere-etc/84811d1335554987-impulse-blh-h2-2.jpg
One of the very few folded horn-loaded speaker designs that are any good. I've heard them many times in a friend's system and they are possibly the only horn speakers I could live with.
Stratmangler
14-09-2014, 19:51
Just to get perspective on notes and frequency, the bottom E string on a guitar is roughly 80Hz, the top E is roughly 320Hz, the 12th fret octave is roughly 640Hz and finally, if the guitar has 24 frets the 24th fret octave is 1280Hz.
So try telling me that 800Hz is not in a sensitive area of hearing whilst keeping a straight face :eyebrows:
Just to get perspective on notes and frequency, the bottom E string on a guitar is roughly 80Hz, the top E is roughly 320Hz, the 12th fret octave is roughly 640Hz and finally, if the guitar has 24 frets the 24th fret octave is 1280Hz.
So try telling me that 800Hz is not in a sensitive area of hearing whilst keeping a straight face :eyebrows:
Bottom E on a 4 string bass guitar is approximately 41 Hz
'In an area of hearing' and 'in a sensitive area of hearing' are not the same thing. 'Sensitive' being a sliding scale, of course.
one solution take the Weber Rehde approach
and forget crossovers altogether
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s612/loonieboo1/RK175d_zps8a9551fa.jpg (http://s1308.photobucket.com/user/loonieboo1/media/RK175d_zps8a9551fa.jpg.html)
So what is the deal there? Googling the name only brings up adverts for rendering.
BTH K10A
14-09-2014, 20:21
The frequency range of a guitar has absolutely no bearing on the frequency range the human ear and brain is most perceptive to.
BTH K10A
14-09-2014, 20:27
one solution take the Weber Rehde approach
and forget crossovers altogether
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s612/loonieboo1/RK175d_zps8a9551fa.jpg (http://s1308.photobucket.com/user/loonieboo1/media/RK175d_zps8a9551fa.jpg.html)
The RK 175 is an interesting application although personally I find Harry Olson's solution more elegant.
So what is the deal there? Googling the name only brings up adverts for rendering.
I don't know about his rendering skills but his speaker designs were something special
the name to search is Rehdeko speakers
It's fair to say that Rehdeko speakers polarised opinion.
It's fair to say that Rehdeko speakers polarised opinion.
Yeah usually between those that had heard them and those that hadn't :uhho::eyebrows:
It's fair to say that Rehdeko speakers polarised opinion.
Well I've googled and the outcome is that they were French, all the drivers were made in house and everyone who has heard them hates them but knows someone who loves them. All the potentially interesting links are dead. Anyone out there using some?
Stratmangler
14-09-2014, 20:51
Bottom E on a 4 string bass guitar is approximately 41 Hz
'In an area of hearing' and 'in a sensitive area of hearing' are not the same thing. 'Sensitive' being a sliding scale, of course.
Correct about the low E on a bass, but it's easier to juggle mentally when you knock off 1Hz, and there's no need to be so precise unless you're tuning the bass guitar up.
So 40Hz it is.
I'd suggest that 80Hz to 1280Hz is right slap bang in the middle of most people's most sensitive area of hearing.
Yeah usually between those that had heard them and those that hadn't :uhho::eyebrows:
Well I have heard a pair. Very vivid and dynamic - but very coloured.
Well I've googled and the outcome is that they were French, all the drivers were made in house and everyone who has heard them hates them but knows someone who loves them. All the potentially interesting links are dead. Anyone out there using some?
yeah that pretty much sums them up except I would say that everyone that's heard them loves them but knows someone who hates them,
theres not much on the net and yes its all in French but his son Joel has a blog where he writes about his Fathers speakers.
they are the only box speakers I can listen to for any length of time after 25 years living with Quad elecrostatics
walpurgis
14-09-2014, 21:01
Well I have heard a pair. Very vivid and dynamic - but very coloured.
I've not heard a pair, but that seems to be the general opinion. Rather similar (and true) comments are made about the presentation of Lowthers.
Correct about the low E on a bass, but it's easier to juggle mentally when you knock off 1Hz, and there's no need to be so precise unless you're tuning the bass guitar up.
So 40Hz it is.
I'd suggest that 80Hz to 1280Hz is right slap bang in the middle of most people's most sensitive area of hearing.
Between 2KHz and 5KHz according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
Which is why classical fans always moan about violin reproduction
I've not heard a pair, but that seems to be the general opinion. Rather similar (and true) comments are made about the presentation of Lowthers.
It's a long time since I heard them but they were quicker and more 'alive' than Lowther based speakers sound to me now. They didn't really have the same issues as full range drivers as such, but they did use very lightweight cones with whizers, minimal crossovers and thin plywood cabinets (minimal damping).
Well I have heard a pair. Very vivid and dynamic - but very coloured.
Sorry I wasn't meaning anything by that it was just a joke about the tug of war debates they generate,
having said that I don't agree that they are coloured rather that they are ruthlessly revealing of weakness'
further up the chain.
It's a long time since I heard them but they were quicker and more 'alive' than Lowther based speakers sound to me now. They didn't really have the same issues as full range drivers as such, but they did use very lightweight cones with whizers, minimal crossovers and thin plywood cabinets (minimal damping).
they don't have any crossover components all the drivers are full range
I don't agree that they are coloured rather that they are ruthlessly revealing of weakness'
further up the chain.
That could be said of many interesting speakers. The NS1000M, 44 series JBL, and it is what the owner said about the Fraziers I kicked the thread off with. Maybe we got lazy with the exercise of partnering the loudspeaker properly?
They didn't use a single driver to cover the entire frequency range though, which was more my point - hardly surprising that coloration levels were high though - with no crossover to attenuate out of band behaviour the drivers would be adding loads of cone breakup to the sound An interesting design nevertheless and I would love to hear a pair again.
walpurgis
14-09-2014, 21:29
I'd definitely like to hear them. I remember reading reviews years ago and the description of the sound rather appealed.
That could be said of many interesting speakers. The NS1000M, 44 series JBL, and it is what the owner said about the Fraziers I kicked the thread off with. Maybe we got lazy with the exercise of partnering the loudspeaker properly?
I would not disagree with that ,I haven't heard the Fraziers (would love to) but certainly the Yammies are a very revealing speaker that shine when used with very good equipment .
They didn't use a single driver to cover the entire frequency range though, which was more my point - hardly surprising that coloration levels were high though - with no crossover to attenuate out of band behaviour the drivers would be adding loads of cone breakup to the sound An interesting design nevertheless and I would love to hear a pair again.
yes that's true apart from the RK115 which was a single driver speaker ,
I want to hear a pair of these
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s612/loonieboo1/rehdeko_zps6116af5b.jpg (http://s1308.photobucket.com/user/loonieboo1/media/rehdeko_zps6116af5b.jpg.html)
Stratmangler
14-09-2014, 21:46
Between 2KHz and 5KHz according to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
Which is why classical fans always moan about violin reproduction
The fundamental of the highest note on a violin is around 2.5kHz .
So it's no wonder classical fans don't like many loudspeakers - the violins are almost slap bang in the middle of the crossover region.
I'd definitely like to hear them. I remember reading reviews years ago and the description of the sound rather appealed.
We need an AoS meeting /show ,I would be far more interested in travelling to a venue to hear some of the eclectic, interesting real world systems of the
members of AoS than a load of overpriced bling from the usual suspects at the mainstream shows.
In the meantime Geoff if your ever in E6 feel free to pop in ,:cool:
walpurgis
14-09-2014, 22:00
Appreciate the invitation Paul. :)
An AOS get together in the south east or London area would be good.
I might just have some items of interest to show off.
BTH K10A
14-09-2014, 22:30
No Crossover and quite unlike another speaker in many ways
http://www.jupiteraudio.com/2035/2035.html
Appreciate the invitation Paul. :)
An AOS get together in the south east or London area would be good.
I might just have some items of interest to show off.
I know I've seen the pictures;), I would love to hear your amps , what ever happened to Audio Al's plan ? I guess he's too busy dusting all his stuff :)
No Crossover and quite unlike another speaker in many ways
http://www.jupiteraudio.com/2035/2035.html
are those units the work of Harry F Olson, they certainly look different ,what sort of enclosures were they usually in used in?
walpurgis
14-09-2014, 23:06
I know I've seen the pictures;), I would love to hear your amps
A major system revamp is on the cards. Looks like I'm going to be using some obscure equipment (that I know sounds good) soon.
I would not disagree with that ,I haven't heard the Fraziers (would love to) but certainly the Yammies are a very revealing speaker that shine when used with very good equipment .
yes that's true apart from the RK115 which was a single driver speaker ,
I want to hear a pair of these
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s612/loonieboo1/rehdeko_zps6116af5b.jpg (http://s1308.photobucket.com/user/loonieboo1/media/rehdeko_zps6116af5b.jpg.html)
Looks like the bottom of an old Parker Knoll chair :eyebrows:
Although I'm told they don't sound that wonderful, I always fancied these:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/gif/carfrae.gif http://www.audioevidence.com/images/carfrae_littlehorn_small.jpg
I am more than happy with my KEF 104/2s.
However has anybody heard the new Shaninian Larcs (NOT Arcs, L L L for Larcs!):D
Julian
Oldpinkman
24-09-2014, 15:40
Them looks like Lowther drivers in there Shane. When trying to build the Fidelios I nearly picked up a pair of Beauhorns "2's" - and nearly had to find a divorce lawyer when Mrs S saw a picture of what wriggled away.
Of the "not seen every day" variety, if we want to get together and play with toys, I have (for not too much longer hopefully, unless Arthur wants them on long term loan) the said Lowthers, and for ever I have the Ventricals
I am meeting Andrew Watson next week - co-author of "50 years of innovation" (a history of KEF - where he was chief designer after Andrew Jones left for TAD). He has an interesting new speaker project he plans to launch, and needs a good accountant!, and I should find out more then. (We used to train at the same karate dojo)
And of course, for reference, I have my cling-film specials :cool:
BTH K10A
24-09-2014, 16:55
are those units the work of Harry F Olson, they certainly look different ,what sort of enclosures were they usually in used in?
This is the original cabinet style http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-RCA-LC-1A-Speakers-in-Original-Cabinets-No-Reserve-/141415326541?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20ed02a34d
Them looks like Lowther drivers in there Shane.
Indeed they are. The speakers were products of a short-lived set-up in Totnes called Carfrae Loudspeakers. Not surprised they didn't last....
This is the original cabinet style http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-RCA-LC-1A-Speakers-in-Original-Cabinets-No-Reserve-/141415326541?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20ed02a34d
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/valentine/balloon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)
they are very nice indeed , you have great knowledge on some lovely vintage equipment Mr Gone.:respect:
BTH K10A
25-09-2014, 06:58
Top quality vintage hifi is the only way to go. :D
How about these big bangers? The ADS L2030, I'd never heard of them but apparently they are quite sort after out in the former Colonies. Remind me a bit of the 'M.X. Dominator' from 'Ruthless People':
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/ADS.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/ADS.jpg.html)
http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/steampunk.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/steampunk.jpg.html)
Steampunk anyone?
Here is the blurb:
http://technabob.com/blog/2013/08/18/empire-steampunk-speakers/
Those have just got to be the ugliest speakers I have ever seen! But then beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
G.I.P 225. The ones the dudes are touching in this photo.
Turn the rest of the speakers off, as we asked them to do when there. Play a few tracks. Absolutely mind blowing. Makes you think all other loudspeakers are heading in the WRONG direction.
Shot by yours truly:D
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jJGbqelLHdI/U3t6bPaF6qI/AAAAAAAAAIE/EZQnwD_MOTU/w1061-h597-no/DSC00346
The whole system was of course even better, but the 225 is around 18K Euros. OK they had some extremely expensive driving electronics, but hey. Note the G.I.P website 225 is NOT using the same top end horn. The ones at the show may have used WE drivers.
More pics (https://plus.google.com/photos/110178171641889521518/albums/6015535760401612753/6015535791667167938?authkey=CJPF-ri_rrGEgAE&pid=6015535791667167938&oid=110178171641889521518)here.
I'd rather have the 225 than Vox Olympians by a long stretch. Far more fun I think.
searching for 'G.I.P 225 loudspeaker' brings up jack. Are they vintage or a current design?
Mr Kipling
23-11-2014, 13:54
I would not disagree with that ,I haven't heard the Fraziers (would love to) but certainly the Yammies are a very revealing speaker that shine when used with very good equipment .
yes that's true apart from the RK115 which was a single driver speaker ,
I want to hear a pair of these
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s612/loonieboo1/rehdeko_zps6116af5b.jpg (http://s1308.photobucket.com/user/loonieboo1/media/rehdeko_zps6116af5b.jpg.html)
In the 60s my mother had a 3 piece suite with springs like that. I kid you not!
One for Mr J, I think:
13575
Nelson Pass with his ion cloud speaker.
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