Inspire Hi-Fi Tecno Upgrade Package [Archive]

markx

13-09-2014, 15:37

I am pretty close to ordering the complete Inspire Hi-Fi Tecno upgrade package:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-ULTIMATE-TECHNICS-1200-1210-COMPREHENSIVE-UPGRADE-PACKAGE/291239398257?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140107083358%26meid%3D0865685c6397414d974 7279925a9d9b3%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D2014010708335 8%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D291234247513

Does anyone have experience of their Tech mods? Are there any users of their re-engineered Technics platter out there? How does it compare to the replacement platters offered by MN & Funk? Any thoughts on their approach to re-engineering the platter?

Is there anyone with experience of their off board unregulated DC power supply? It looks to be the same as that which comes with the Monarch turntable.

The complete suite of mods offered by Inspire strike me as sensible and good value for money especially when compared to the competition. They would appear to address all the key areas of weakness in the stock model without going overboard. The design of the PS looks very good as do the bearing mods and upgraded internal regulator mods. The plinth system is also well thought out. At first I wasn't sure about about the look of a wooden plinth on a Technics but I am now warming to the idea.

Any thoughts?

WOStantonCS100

13-09-2014, 16:09

Any thoughts?

Note to self: put a Triplanar MK VII on one of the 1200s :eyebrows:

6L6

13-09-2014, 19:46

That's a lot of money, but perhaps a decent value in the aggregate.

Give it a go, tell us what you think!

Marco

13-09-2014, 20:02

Hi Mark,

Interesting stuff! I have a few thoughts on this, but am busy just now, so if you can bear with me for a bit, I’ll give you my tuppence worth later :)

Marco.

Andrei

13-09-2014, 22:51

markx

14-09-2014, 05:58

I've tried none of their goodies, but apart from one thing they all seem very sensible. The only thing that gives me a twitch is the weight they have added to the platter. Adding weight means adding friction, but I suppose they have modded the bearing to cope with this. Or perhaps they reckon the damping that this affords more than offsets the weight.

Yeah, at first I was a little concerned about the additional weight of the billet 10mm aluminium. However, the relatively heavy stock 5mm rubber matt will not be needed. I suspect the weight of the two items will be similar. From what I can gather the deluxe mat that is included is cork on the underside (stuck to the inside lip of the platter) with the top/record interfacing surface similar to that used for the Achromat - a foamex type material. I suspect this will be fairly light weight.

markx

14-09-2014, 13:59

Hi Mark,

Interesting stuff! I have a few thoughts on this, but am busy just now, so if you can bear with me for a bit, I’ll give you my tuppence worth later :)

Marco.

Hi Marco,

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the Inspire upgrade package when you get a moment.

Thanks

Mark

YNWaN

14-09-2014, 14:11

markx

14-09-2014, 16:37

What gives me pause for thought is their reference to the added weight increasing the flywheel effect as if that is a good thing. A turntable which uses a feedback loop does not need platter inertia to stabilise speed - that is what the feedback loop is for.

Interesting observation. This is beyond my area of expertise. I would welcome any further thoughts on the re-engineered platter. I think we can all agree the stock platter is hollow/lightweight and ringy. I suspect the design has been based to some extent on the Monarch platter.

YNWaN

14-09-2014, 16:46

The Inspire 1200 platters that I have seen have been standard platters that have been post machined to remove the strobe markings and presumably had this aluminium plate bonded to them.

markx

14-09-2014, 17:33

The Inspire 1200 platters that I have seen have been standard platters that have been post machined to remove the strobe markings and presumably had this aluminium plate bonded to them.

Yes, that is correct. I suspect the 'mass' of the re-engineered platter may be based on the Monarch.

Marco

14-09-2014, 22:57

Hi Mark,

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you - just been really busy! Ok, the Inspire Upgrade Package…. My view is that it’s very good value for money and fundamentally addresses many of the weak areas of the stock Technics T/T - and in a way which is a bit different from that of competitors.

Negatives? The supplied 'wood sleeve' is not a proper wooden plinth, and therefore will not impart the sonic characteristics and/or isolation properties, in that respect, of a genuine item. It’s simply a cosmetic covering, albeit the "Sorbo Pod suspension” should provide some effective vibration isolation. How successful that is, however, will depend on the environment the T/T is used in.

I’m not sure the higher-mass platter is a good idea, as my experiments in that area, with the products I’ve purchased which work on that principle, have not been entirely successful. However, if the platter, bearing and PSU have all been designed to work symbiotically with the the T/T’s control circuitry, and crucially whoever has designed it has a fundamental understanding of how that is accurately achieved, then it could work well and provide significant dividends.

Other than the housing itself, there appears to be no reworking/upgrading of the stock bearing - an area which is known as a fundamental weakness of the Technics, certainly in terms of equalling or superseding the quality of that used on genuine high-end turntables, from established hi-fi manufacturers. In that respect, the MN bearing still rules the roost.

However, that said, I’d still be tempted to take a punt on the Inspire package, as you’re getting a lot for your money, especially as the upgraded PSU looks to be a good one, and the whole concept has obviously had a lot of thought put into it. As such, fitted with the right arm and cartridge combo, based on experience with my own judiciously modified SL-1210, I’d expect it to sound superb and compete with some established high-end T/Ts costing many times more.

Perhaps the way to go would be to try the package, and if you like what it does, then fit an MN bearing, as that should simply work in tandem with the existing mods (bearing housing aside) and be a no-brainer upgrade. After that, just kick back and enjoy the music.

I admire Inspire Hi-Fi for the work they’ve put into modifying the Technics, and most importantly, getting it out into the public domain and alerting audiophiles/vinyl lovers to the serious sonic potential these T/Ts have (keeping it at the forefront of people’s minds), and in a way, through effective marketing, that other smaller manufacturers of Technics T/T upgrades haven’t been in a position to do, so well done to them for that.

We must keep the modded Technics alive, despite the efforts of those with a commercial agenda (mainly manufacturers and retailers of certain belt-drive T/Ts) wishing that it would simply die a death…. On AoS, we won’t ever allow that to happen! :nono:

Anyway, good luck if you go for it, although I expect you’ll be delighted. If you do go for the Inspire package, please post your thoughts and supply some nice pics, and if I find myself in the Sussex area, it would be nice to have a listen - enjoy! :cool:

Marco.

markx

15-09-2014, 10:23

Thanks for your input Marco. Yes, I agree the woden plinth is largely a cosmetic upgrade. I suspect the isolation it provides will be no better or worse than the other after market footers out there. The package has clearly been well thought out. I suspect it incorporates many of the design features of the well received Monarch turntable. I don't think the higher mass platter is an issue as there will be no need for the relatively heavy stock 5mm rubber mat. I suspect the total weight of the re-engineered platter + mat will be broadly similar to that of the original platter + stock rubber mat.

I understand your concern with regards the non-reworking of the stock bearing. However, research would seem to suggest opinions on this differ. Both Funk and Inspire believe the bearing to be reasonably ok. Inspire look to improve its performance by upgrading the bearing housing. This is where they perceive the weakness to be. This is identical to the bearing used in the well regarded Monarch turntable. One has to ask, how much performance increase would the well designed MN bearing provide and would it be woth the additional £500 expense?

As you know, I joined the forum primarily to seek advice on how best to modify the Technics. I am coming into some money within the next few weeks. I want to use part of this money to create a fairly decent audio system that I can live with for the long-term. I am happy with my digital front end (Yamaha transport into MF DAC), amplifier (Marantz KI pearl) and speaker choice (Proac D18). It is my analogue front end which I want to improve. I've got a large record collection and I want to do it justice.

I am not a hobbyist equipment modifier (not that there is anything wrong with this). Just someone who wants to improve the performance of his analogue playback. The attraction with the Inspire Tech mods is they collect the turntable, carry out the mods at their premises and return it. It is a one stop shop. Their approach appears to be well thought out and sensible.

I plan to add an SME M2-9 tonearm + Ortofon 2M Bronze. I have arrived at this decision based on user feedback, research and advice. It is simply not possible to demo and trial all the different options available.

I want to stick with a decent MM cart. My feeling is the 2M Bronze should work well. It is renowned for its detail and ability to produce a wide sound stage. These are both areas where the stock Technics lacks in comparison to decent Hi-Fi turntables in my experience. Some criticise the bronze for being modern sounding, having a dry textrual balance and lacking some emotion. However, I would argue my system is fairly musical and if anything errs on the warm side of neutral. For example, my DAC is a lot more detailed than others but works very well in the context of my system.

The other MM carts I have considered are the 2M Black, Audio Technics AT150 MLX, Goldring 1042, Goldring 2500 and Nagoka MP500. The black costs quite a bit more than the bronze. I have read that the AT cart can be tricky matching to some MM phono stages (loading issues). Also, I currently own a AT120e and I am not that impressed - sounding quite thin and unatural in my previous systems. I also own a Linn Adikt cart which I think is based on a Goldring 1042. Not bad but I find it a bit full on, warm and chunky sounding on the technics - not a lot of detail or finesse. The Goldring 2500 is apparently manufactured by Nagoka for Goldring. The Nagoka MP500 looks like an interesting proposition and is available direct from Japan for around the same price as the 2M Bronze.

I wonder if the Nagoka MP500 would be a better choice than the Ortofon 2M Bronze in the context of an SME M2-9 tonearm and my system? I get the impression it is a strong performer in the mid range. It seems to be strongly favoured by Jazz and acoustic listeners. I listen to a very wide range of music (including Jazz & acoustic) and in particular electronica and well produced and mastered dance music. It is very important that I achieve good performance at the frequency extremes. I favour detail and musical involvement.

I would welcome any further thoughts you may have on my cartridge choice options in the context of my proposed system.

CageyH

15-09-2014, 10:43

I am surprised that Funk think the standard bearing is ok, as the last I heard they had a new bearing under development.

belloire

15-09-2014, 10:55

Andrei

15-09-2014, 11:27

I would welcome any further thoughts you may have on my cartridge choice options in the context of my proposed system.
The Inspire upgrades, SME M2-9 tonearm, Marantz Pearl and Proacs suggest to me that your system could do justice to a better cartridge. I think you will get better suggestions if you advise what Phono Stage you are / will be using.

markx

15-09-2014, 11:28

I am surprised that Funk think the standard bearing is ok, as the last I heard they had a new bearing under development.

I don't want to misquote Arthur. When I spoke with him he told me the greatest sonic gains are achieved by repacing the platter and the tonearm, much more so than the bearing change. He does acknowledge the bearing can be improved upon. It is Inspire who believe the bearing is generally ok and why they focus their attention on improving the bearing housing. From what I can gather this the is same bearing/housing as used on their well received Monarch turntabe.

Marco

15-09-2014, 11:40

Hi Mark,

I don't want to misquote Arthur. When I spoke with him he told me the greatest sonic gains are achieved by repacing the platter and the tonearm, much more so than the bearing change. He does acknowledge the bearing can be improved upon. It is Inspire who believe the bearing is generally ok and why they focus their attention on improving the bearing housing. From what I can gather this the is same bearing/housing as used on their well received Monarch turntabe.

With respect to Arthur, he doesn’t know what an SL-1200 or 1210 sounds like fitted with a completely re-engineered and fundamentally improved bearing, such as the one from Mike New, and neither do I suspect does Inspire, therefore they possess no practical experience in the matter with which to back up their assertions.

Others and my experience of using an MN bearing on a daily basis, having in our systems compared it back-to-back with a stock bearing, and then upgraded the latter accordingly, have a rather different and more informed opinion on the matter.

One fact worth bearing in mind (no pun intended), is that none of the other companies offering aftermarket modifications to the Technics, other than Mike New, has the required tooling or engineering prowess to design a completely bespoke bearing from scratch, therefore is it any wonder why his competitors, restricted simply to ‘tarting up’ the original design, to varying degrees, are universally dismissive of the benefits of installing a completely bespoke and fundamentally superior bearing (engineered from the ground up to be the best it possibly can)?

Think about it... ;)

I’ll get back to you on the rest of your post later.

Marco.

markx

15-09-2014, 11:45

The Inspire upgrades, SME M2-9 tonearm, Marantz Pearl and Proacs suggest to me that your system could do justice to a better cartridge. I think you will get better suggestions if you advise what Phono Stage you are / will be using.

Innitially, I will be using the phono stage within the KI Pearl which is pretty decent. I may at some stage in the future invest in a separate valve phono stage. I would prefer to stick with decent MM carts at this stage.

synsei

15-09-2014, 11:46

One fact worth bearing in mind (no pun intended) is that none of the other companies offering aftermarket modifications to the Technics, other than Mike New, has the required tooling or engineering prowess to design a completely bespoke bearing from scratch, therefore is it any wonder why his competitors, restricted simply to ‘tarting up’ the original design, to varying degrees, are universally dismissive of the benefits of installing a completely new and fundamentally superior bearing?

Um, are you sure about that and have you examined Inspire's website recently? Now, if I were Inspire's MD I'd take that as a bit of an insult, and a challenge ;)

YNWaN

15-09-2014, 11:48

Well, to be fair, we don't know what experiments, experience or engineering prowess Inspire have, perhaps they have built replacement bearings. Also MN doesn't actually make many of the components he uses (he has written as much, I'm not assuming it) they are made by other companies to his specification; Arthur or Inspire could do likewise if they chose (outsourcing of specialist elements is standard practice).

In terms of engineering prowess, well bearings of this type are hardly rocket science and the engineering content is well known and understood. The MN is undoubtedly a very nicely machined component and well specified, but in terms of design it doesn't break new ground.

Marco

15-09-2014, 11:48

Um, are you sure about that and have you examined Inspire's website recently? Now, if I were Inspire's MD I'd take that as a bit of an insult, and a challenge ;)

Ok, show me where they’ve designed a completely new bearing from scratch, and not simply modified the original and/or housing, and I’ll retract my statement :)

And if you’re right, why would Mark have stated this earlier:

It is Inspire who believe the bearing is generally ok and why they focus their attention on improving the bearing housing...

Why would Inspire say that if they sold their own bespoke bearing for the Technics - seems somewhat counterproductive, no?

Marco.

synsei

15-09-2014, 11:57

Ok, show me where they’ve designed a completely new bearing from scratch, and not simply modified the original and/or housing, and I’ll retract my statement :)

Marco.

I'm coming at this from the same direction as Mark above. Having followed Inspire's progress for a few years now I am not left with the impression that this is an outfit which is devoid of engineering prowess, in fact quite the opposite. This is no slur on Mike but he is not the only talented engineer in the world capable of producing a bespoke bearing for the 12xx. If Funk or Inspire decide at some point to provide such an item then it will be of great benefit to all concerned as it will increase customer choice and perhaps even bring the cost of such items down to a more affordable level eventually.

Marco

15-09-2014, 12:00

Well, to be fair, we don't know what experiments, experience or engineering prowess Inspire have, perhaps they have built replacement bearings.

Perhaps they have, Mark. However, I'd be very doubtful indeed if they’ve tried one of Mike’s, which are known (as evidenced by 100s of satisfied users) to fundamentally improve the performance of the Technics.

Also MN doesn't actually make many of the components he uses (he has written as much, I'm not assuming it) they are made by other companies to his specification; Arthur or Inspire could do likewise if they chose (outsourcing of specialist elements is standard practice).

Then let them do so, and provide evidence to support it, then they’ll be qualified to comment on the matter from a position of authority.

In terms of engineering prowess, well bearings of this type are hardly rocket science and the engineering content is well known and understood. The MN is undoubtedly a very nicely machined component and well specified, but in terms of design it doesn't break new ground.

I didn’t say that it did. What I am saying, based on extensive experience, is that the MN bearing significantly improves on the stock Technics item, and as such in turn fundamentally improves the performance of the SL-1200/1210.

Marco.

Marco

15-09-2014, 12:03

I'm coming at this from the same direction as Mark above. Having followed Inspire's progress for a few years now I am not left with the impression that this is an outfit which is devoid of engineering prowess, in fact quite the opposite. This is no slur on Mike but he is not the only talented engineer in the world capable of producing a bespoke bearing for the 12xx. If Funk or Inspire decide at some point to provide such an item then it will be of great benefit to all concerned as it will increase customer choice and perhaps even bring the cost of such items down to a more affordable level eventually.

Dave, please stop misquoting me and actually read what I’ve written. I never said that they were "devoid of engineering prowess"; what I said was that they haven’t actually produced their own bespoke bearing from scratch (unless you can find me a picture of one for sale), and so until they do, they’re simply not in a position to comment with authority on its efficacy.

Marco.

Macca

15-09-2014, 12:13

T. My feeling is the 2M Bronze should work well. It is renowned for its detail and ability to produce a wide sound stage. These are both areas where the stock Technics lacks in comparison to decent Hi-Fi turntables in my experience. .

Not the first time I have read someone saying this. Not disputing your findings but I have to say if the reproduction 'lacks detail' I donlt see how it can be the deck that is at fault.

As far as the cartridge goes I rate the Nagaoka as superior to the Ortofon, although in the grand scheme of things there is not really much in it.

synsei

15-09-2014, 12:26

markx

15-09-2014, 12:28

i have an inspire plinth on my 1210. whilst i'm sure it doesn't impart any partucular 'sonic signature' on the deck, i'm not sure this is a negative. it does, however, look a lot nice than the standard techie (at least i think so....)

in terms of cartridges, consider the Audio Note IQ2 or 3. they aren't cheap, but are excellent carts, the 3 being one of the best MM's available (again, i think so having heard quite a few, but by no means all) they certainly work nicely on an audio note arm on a techie

Thanks for your input. What are the prices of the AN IQ2 & IQ3? For some strange reason, AN do not seem to publicise their prices. Any idea why this is?

From what I can gather both models are built on behalf of AN by Goldring and based on the 1042?

Both the Ortofon 2M Bronze & Nagoka MP500 can be purchased over the Internet for around £250. I would like to keep my cart spend below £300.

Marco

15-09-2014, 12:31

One fact worth bearing in mind (no pun intended) is that none of the other companies offering aftermarket modifications to the Technics, other than Mike New, has the required tooling or engineering prowess to design a completely bespoke bearing from scratch

:confused:

I didn’t say that they had NO engineering prowess, simply that I suspect that they don’t have the required in-house engineering prowess (although I stand to be corrected). There is a difference! ;)

Marco.

synsei

15-09-2014, 13:23

Hmm, just had a wee power cut... :eyebrows:

I didn’t say that they had NO engineering prowess, simply that I suspect that they don’t have the required in-house engineering prowess (although I stand to be corrected). There is a difference!

Inspire and Funk are two companies which both share a forward thinking attitude and IMO are the two most likely to run with the idea if they consider it to be a viable proposition. The question is, should they waste their efforts on the ever diminishing SL12xx market or perhaps develop their raft of mods for the expanding OEM Techie clone market? It's an interesting question from a business POV ;)

CageyH

15-09-2014, 15:23

Marco,

Arthur is developing his own bearing in house.
Seeing his recent creations, and having experienced his forward/fresh thinking combined with the stock Technics arm, I reckon he has the engineering prowess.

I have asked him to send me one for a play when it is finished, but I think his main stream products are taking priority right now. You never know, it could be better than Mike's superb offering. We'll be in for a treat if it is.

belloire

15-09-2014, 16:31

Thanks for your input. What are the prices of the AN IQ2 & IQ3? For some strange reason, AN do not seem to publicise their prices. Any idea why this is?

From what I can gather both models are built on behalf of AN by Goldring and based on the 1042?

Both the Ortofon 2M Bronze & Nagoka MP500 can be purchased over the Internet for around £250. I would like to keep my cart spend below £300.

not sure of actual prices, but the IQ3 is around £650 - as i mentioned it's top end :)

i'm not sure who makes them, but they are based on the 1042, but not compatible with it. the body is the same in all 3 carts (iq1,2,3) but the cantilever and stylus are different up the range. the good part of this is you can get an iq1 and eventually put an iq3 stylus on it.

not sure why the prices are always 'available on demand', it's and Audio Note thing!

markx

15-09-2014, 16:46

Cheers for that. I am not prepared to go that high for a MM cart. The well regarded Nagoka MP500 & Ortofon 2M Bronze are available at well below half that amount. Much better vfm imo.

markx

15-09-2014, 17:06

Hi Dave,

What do you mean by "the expanding OEM Techie clone market"?

Hmm, just had a wee power cut... :eyebrows:

Inspire and Funk are two companies which both share a forward thinking attitude and IMO are the two most likely to run with the idea if they consider it to be a viable proposition. The question is, should they waste their efforts on the ever diminishing SL12xx market or perhaps develop their raft of mods for the expanding OEM Techie clone market? It's an interesting question from a business POV ;)

Andrei

15-09-2014, 21:32

Hi Mark,

Others and my experience of using an MN bearing on a daily basis, having in our systems compared it back-to-back with a stock bearing, and then upgraded the latter accordingly, have a rather different and more informed opinion on the matter.

Marco.
I had the stock bearing, then replaced it with the MN bearing. As I have said before, it has done nothing for my system. As regards Inspire, for all we know they may have trialed the MN bearing. What we do know is that Inspire's Monarch Turntable, ie without a MN bearing, has won accolades from Ni-Fi News and Hi-Fi World.

Andrei

15-09-2014, 21:36

twotone

15-09-2014, 23:01

I've a Reson Reca MM cart which is based on the 1042, I think, and sounds excellent but personally when it goes toes up I'll be getting a 2mm black or a Nag 300 or 500.

Clive197

16-09-2014, 08:34

I had the stock bearing, then replaced it with the MN bearing. As I have said before, it has done nothing for my system. As regards Inspire, for all we know they may have trialed the MN bearing. What we do know is that Inspire's Monarch Turntable, ie without a MN bearing, has won accolades from Ni-Fi News and Hi-Fi World.

Andrei, are you saying the MNB made no difference to the sound of your Techie? If so, your the only member who having bought one to admit it was not worth the effort.

I was planning to buy one, David at MCRU kindly sent me a copy of the installation instructions which I read numerous times and have now been put-off by the fact that you have to attack the main board with a pair of cutters and a file, something to do with the need to avoid short-circuiting the PCB. I had previously thought the swap just meant a straight drop in. A minor point I know but knowing my luck and ability it's something I'm not confident in doing. Now give me an arm and cartridge to install and I'll happily do it all day long with my eyes closed. Doesn't make sense does it?

Clive

cuddles

16-09-2014, 08:55

Andrei, are you saying the MNB made no difference to the sound of your Techie? If so, your the only member who having bought one to admit it was not worth the effort.

I was planning to buy one, David at MCRU kindly sent me a copy of the installation instructions which I read numerous times and have now been put-off by the fact that you have to attack the main board with a pair of cutters and a file, something to do with the need to avoid short-circuiting the PCB. I had previously thought the swap just meant a straight drop in.

Clive

That's odd - as I recall all I had to do was unscrew the PCB to move it out of the way, take out the old bearing and screw in the Mike New one and replace the PCB. Simple job with an instantly obvious MASSIVE improvement. Don't be put off ;)

Clive197

16-09-2014, 10:38

That's odd - as I recall all I had to do was unscrew the PCB to move it out of the way, take out the old bearing and screw in the Mike New one and replace the PCB. Simple job with an instantly obvious MASSIVE improvement. Don't be put off ;)

Simon, I was purely going by the installation instructions as supplied by David. If it's a straight drop in as you say I would buy it in a heartbeat..

Clive

spikeyfaz

16-09-2014, 11:54

As an owner of a stock Technics, I have considered going for a bearing upgrade but will probably never be able to afford to do so. It has however made me wonder if the turntables that benefited most from such an upgrade are those that had a worn bearing. Would a brand new turntable with a stock bearing really benefit from an upgraded bearing? Just a thought.

Andrei

16-09-2014, 13:26

Yes there is some scary filing to do but no-one has screwed up so for, or at least no-one has admitted screwing up. I think most people who get the MN bearing do get an improvement and some of this is due to the fact that the bearing is new, whereas the existing bearing will be old. But even where a brand new 1200 is used (rare, but possible), the lubricating oil will have sat for years, possibly decades, and naturally enough one is then going from unlubed bearing to a lubed bearing, so again an improvement will result. Presumably advances in oils since the design of the SL1200 would be another advantage of the MNB.

I applaud MCRU for allowing AOS members a free trial. That would be a trial against a used and likely past-service-date of your existing bearing. Another trial you can do is to compare a brand new and relubed technics bearing against your bearing or against the MNB. In this case you can use a more modern oil. Trouble is it will cost at least £25.00 for the bearing. One seller is at https://www.encompassparts.com/item/252202/Panasonic/SFMZQ20-01A/Shaft where the price is US$44.76. If you do go for the MNB you can resell and recoup some of the loss. The advantage of this is that it is easier to do than fitting the MNB, and if it works, it is cheaper.

Just like the platter, external vibration, and the power supply I think the bearing should be addressed. You can start off by taking out your bearing which is a relatively painless operation and inspecting it. This is something that should be done in any event as every year or so it should be serviced. You can lave a look at the thrust pad and the point that makes contact with the thrust pad and look for signs of wear. If it is ok then you can pull it apart, clean it an relube it with a modern synthetic motor oil. Richard Krebs of Krebs Upgrades ( http://www.krebsupgrade.com/index.html ) told me he used Motul 20W60 300V leMans. (Incidentally Time-step are now doing the Krebs upgrades). It seems certain to me that a new bearing, with new oil, and with better oil has to be a decent upgrade. As mentioned I think MCRU doing members a great service in allowing a trial, and if you find that the MNB is better still you can go for it.

Clive197

16-09-2014, 13:50

Andrei, I have read your post carefully and find it a little confusing.

You didn't answer my question. In your case, did you hear a difference after you installed your MNB? You seem to suggest that you did not.

I think that the MNB is well engineered and beautifully made but you appear to me to be suggesting that the improvement (if any) is dependant on the condition of the stock bearing. Have I understood you correctly?

Clive

prestonchipfryer

16-09-2014, 13:53

[QUOTE=Andrei;580723] I think most people who get the MN bearing do get an improvement and some of this is due to the fact that the bearing is new, whereas the existing bearing will be old.

How do you define ''old''? When I had my MN bearing in 2010 my original Technics bearing was less than six months old from brand new. I have also used the Timestep bearing, but this was in my experience WORSE than the standard bearing. I.e.: the platter would not sit properly on the TS bearing and caused the platter to run unevenly. Also the sound quality was obviously inferior in my experience, giving the effect that recordings sounded out of phase, although they were not. The MN bearing, for me, has served to give an obvious sound quality improvement.

Andrei

16-09-2014, 14:09

In your case, did you hear a difference after you installed your MNB? You seem to suggest that you did not.

I think that the MNB is well engineered and beautifully made but you appear to me to be suggesting that the improvement (if any) is dependant on the condition of the stock bearing. Have I understood you correctly?

Clive

Correct, I heard no difference. I put it down to the condition (in terms of wear) and lubrication, or lack thereof of the original. Reports of people servicing their bearings are few and far between - actually I have not seen one.

How do you define ''old''?

I don't. I have seen pics of worn bearings, and as mentioned above I doubt many people ever serviced their bearing, which is a pity as it is not that difficult to do with simple instructions.

Clive197

16-09-2014, 14:50

Clive197

16-09-2014, 14:50

synsei

16-09-2014, 15:34

According to Richard at Inspire, the bearing on my SL1210M5G which was obtained for me by Richard was examined and found to be in perfect condition (as new)
Many of you may remember my mission to obtain some original Technics bearing oil last year which was with help was achieved.
I have since used a few drops on the bearing twice so feel that my stock bearing is in fine fettle. All this suggests that actually I would gain little by purchasing a MNB. The proof would be to buy said bearing and listen (hard to do an A-B comparison). If there is no difference then the faff to myself and MCRU is part of the reason for my hesitation.

Clive

I replaced the standard bearing on the SL1210 I had with a Vantage item and the improvement this brought about was significant. I wasn't able to explore any further than this though as the MNB was way out of my reach price-wise. It's all academic now though as I no longer own a 12xx.

belloire

16-09-2014, 15:43

the bearing in my mk5 had very little use by the time i put Dave's old Vantage bearing in there. the difference was minimal, but there. (at least i think it was.........)

no way i'm spending £450 on a bearing in a £600 turntable for a potential minor upgrade. i can get a lot of records for that!

CageyH

16-09-2014, 15:50

Simon, I was purely going by the installation instructions as supplied by David. If it's a straight drop in as you say I would buy it in a heartbeat..

Clive

I put a layer of insulation tape on top of my bearing to stop any risks of a short.
Filing the tails down seemed a bit of a faff.

synsei

16-09-2014, 16:12

belloire

16-09-2014, 16:16

Well there you go, you say Tomayto, I say Tomato, did you flog it with a birch twig? I found this helped a lot... :ner:

damn it. i knew there would be some magic i was missing!

walpurgis

16-09-2014, 17:15

damn it. i knew there would be some magic i was missing!

Well as Birch and Magic have been mentioned, you must hinting It's Magic Mushroom season! (some grow under Birch trees. so I've been told)

twotone

16-09-2014, 17:21

Setting Son

16-09-2014, 18:17

Wasn't there something about an additional baseplate being required for the MN bearing to perform at it's best? Or was that only required with the (too?) heavy older MN platter? Presumably this requires extra expense and fitting aggravation?

I think the comments about Arthur (Funk Firm) are unfair. He knows considerably more than most about all aspects of turntable design. I don't believe the 12xx will be a mystery to him.

synsei

16-09-2014, 18:46

damn it. i knew there would be some magic i was missing!

:lol:

Marco

16-09-2014, 20:46

Hi Lee,

Wasn't there something about an additional baseplate being required for the MN bearing to perform at it's best? Or was that only required with the (too?) heavy older MN platter? Presumably this requires extra expense and fitting aggravation?

No, the bearing baseplate does not necessitate the use of the (high-mass) MN aluminium composite platter, in order to improve the functionality/efficacy of the MN bearing. I fitted the baseplate with the (much lighter) ETP platter, and the sonic improvements weren't subtle.

I think the comments about Arthur (Funk Firm) are unfair. He knows considerably more than most about all aspects of turntable design. I don't believe the 12xx will be a mystery to him.

That's not what I meant. I have the greatest respect for the talents of AK as a turntable designer - there are few people, if any, with his ability, especially to think outside of the box. However, if he's heard an SL-1200 or 1210 fitted with an MN bearing (and therefore knows how much that specific bearing fundamentally improves the performance of the Technics), then I'm a monkey's uncle! ;)

That said, he probably won't need to now, once his own creation in that respect is released :)

There are loads of posts on this thread I must reply to, not least of which is to offer Mark some cartridge recommendations, but I've simply been too busy with various other things. However, I shall rectify that tomorrow!

Marco.

RobbieGong

16-09-2014, 20:56

There is no way in the world I would spend £450 on a bearing and another £600 for a platter for a Technics TT, pure madness IMO.

I would much rather spend the dosh on a new/different TT and arm.

I'm already into the Technics for about £1200.

Tony

Depends on what you want at the end of the day Tony. I and others have both and I can tell you without any shadow of a doubt, the best I have ever heard vinyl replay is in my very humble system, on the end of my Techie. I'm in no doubt that the ETP platter and Mike New bearing combined with external psu and the Micro Seiki MA 202, of which you are now familiar and the 2M Black, are the reason why. There's a level of 'rightness' to the music that is an absolute priceless joy IMO and IME ;)

Marco

16-09-2014, 21:07

There is no way in the world I would spend £450 on a bearing and another £600 for a platter for a Technics TT, pure madness IMO.

Hi Tony,

Why don't I pop round with my Techy next time I'm up visiting the crew in Glasgow? Then you can judge the level of "pure madness" for yourself? ;)

Marco.

twotone

16-09-2014, 21:54

Hi Tony,

Why don't I pop round with my Techy next time I'm up visiting the crew in Glasgow? Then you can judge the level of "pure madness" for yourself? ;)

Marco.

I would love that Marco:cool:

twotone

16-09-2014, 21:57

Depends on what you want at the end of the day Tony. I and others have both and I can tell you without any shadow of a doubt, the best I have ever heard vinyl replay is in my very humble system, on the end of my Techie. I'm in no doubt that the ETP platter and Mike New bearing combined with external psu and the Micro Seiki MA 202, of which you are now familiar and the 2M Black, are the reason why. There's a level of 'rightness' to the music that is an absolute priceless joy IMO and IME ;)

I think that the cart must surely go a long way to help the sound/music Rob? I'm sure the table and arm are important in the grand scheme of things, more so the arm IMO, but at the end of the day there really isn't much in a TT is there?

Tony

Setting Son

16-09-2014, 21:58

I didn't mean that the baseplate necessitates the use of the heavy platter. Rather, was the baseplate required because of the weight of the platter?

Marco

16-09-2014, 22:07

I would love that Marco:cool:

Next time I'm up (probably in a couple of months) I'll give you a shout and we can hook up :)

Marco.

Marco

16-09-2014, 22:23

I didn't mean that the baseplate necessitates the use of the heavy platter. Rather, was the baseplate required because of the weight of the platter?

Nope, its primary function is to improve the efficacy of the bearing. Without the baseplate fitted to the chassis, the bearing (any bearing, MN or the stock Technics one) is only being supported, rather flimsily, on three 'threaded dimples' situated around the edge of a hole cut out of the chassis, designed to house the bottom of the bearing.

It simply 'floats' on top of those (as they do not sit flush on the chassis), secured only by three screws, rather than than being solidly affixed with multiple bolts and then bonded flush onto the chassis with Araldite, as is the case when the baseplate is fitted.

Installing the baseplate, provides a much larger and more solid platform to support the bearing, thus significantly increasing overall rigidity - and the sonic effect of that is significant, in terms of reduced noise, improved bass weight, greater authority, etc.

Here's a pic that illustrates what I mean. You will notice how much more rigid the whole assembly is with the baseplate in place:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/gGuhFU.jpg

Marco.

twotone

16-09-2014, 22:30

Next time I'm up (probably in a couple of months) I'll give you a shout and we can hook up :)

Marco.

:thumbsup:

Canetoad

16-09-2014, 23:58

There is no way in the world I would spend £450 on a bearing and another £600 for a platter for a Technics TT, pure madness IMO.

I would much rather spend the dosh on a new/different TT and arm.

I'm already into the Technics for about £1200.

Tony

My Techie owes me about £1360 and includes a MNB, Jelco arm, Isonoes, hardwood tonearm baseplate, external PSU. I'm not sure I'd want to spend any further on it, especially upgrading the platter, which would cost a fair bit more. I think I'll leave it where it is and put the money into the Lenco GL75 or Garrard 401 tables I have stored away. :)

twotone

17-09-2014, 08:33

My Techie owes me about £1360 and includes a MNB, Jelco arm, Isonoes, hardwood tonearm baseplate, external PSU. I'm not sure I'd want to spend any further on it, especially upgrading the platter, which would cost a fair bit more. I think I'll leave it where it is and put the money into the Lenco GL75 or Garrard 401 tables I have stored away. :)

Well that's the thing isn't it? I mean the upgrade would have to be huge in terms of sound to spend more than a grand from where we both are now and I have never ever heard a massive improvement soundwise with anything I've upgraded too with the exception of the odd set of speakers, the Jez Arkless CA phono mod or the Micro Seiki arm I currently have on the Technics and maybe the current cart I'm using so, for me, spending that amount of money on an upgrade such as the MNB & Platter isn't a gamble I'm prepared to take cause really at the end of the day I don't have £2,500 to spend on a TT.

Tony

Marco

17-09-2014, 10:40

Wakefield Turntables

17-09-2014, 11:31

twotone

17-09-2014, 12:30

Marco

17-09-2014, 12:59

Hi Tony,

Bottom line is can't or don't want to spend money on something that doesn't bring much of an improvement over what I have at the minute.

In my experience hi-fi sound performance from one component to another isn't huge the difference is always subtle never ever a light switching on sort of thing.

No worries, but at least after I’ve visited you’ll have an informed opinion on the matter, based on the practical experience of having listened to the items in question, and on that basis can judge their efficacy.

My pet hate, and I know that this doesn’t apply to you, are folk who, because they can’t afford the items in question, resolutely refuse to believe that they’re any good (as it helps them cope with the fact that they can’t afford them) - and worse - proceed to put others on forums off of them, simply because they can’t have them themselves. That *really* rips my knitting!! :rolleyes:

Anyway, I’ll bring the beers round when I come up. Look forward to it, as we should’ve hooked up ages ago! :cool:

Marco.

belloire

17-09-2014, 13:05

I totally get that, Tony.

However, what about (and I’m not saying that this will definitely happen), when I pop round to your place with my modded Techy, and we compare it side-by-side with yours, and the "massive improvement", to your ears, with mine is obvious, will you then change your opinion about whether the MNB & platter (not to mention the Paul Hynes PSU and all the internal regs) are worth it? :)

Forget about whether you can afford them or not, I’m talking purely about your opinion with regards to their efficacy.

Marco.

this isn't really a comparison that means anything. they're completely different animals. how can you say that the percieved uplift in quality (assuming there is any) is from a particuar part of the jigsaw that is a modded techie?

you have a different arm, cart, bearing, platter, psu on yours. which one is giving the most improvement?

as i mentioned, i can't see anything as an upgrade to my turntable that would give enjoyment surpassing more records. that's just me. the fact i can't borrow a mike new bearing to put in my turntable before having to spend almost as much as the turntable cost really puts me off. (not to mention some of the comments made here, by Mr New. again that's just me.....)

my techie is a mk5 in an inspire plinth with home made offboard psu, Jelco 750D, AOC magnesium headshell with vdh gold leads, van damme silver tonearm cable, vantage bearing, 3mm achromat and an audio technica ART1. it owes me £740. i'd happily compare it to yours and see how much difference the investment you have made makes.

i guarantee i wouldn't be rushing out to buy any upgrades afterwards though.

again, i'll stress this is personal thoughts. i have no problem with anybody spending whatever they want on any piece of kit (i recently spent £60 on 2 capacitors for my phono stage for instance, and there will be more when i have some spare cash)

Setting Son

17-09-2014, 13:16

I'd wait to see what Funk come up with. I'm sure it will be a more elegantly engineered innovative solution.

Marco

17-09-2014, 13:19

Marco

17-09-2014, 13:24

I'd wait to see what Funk come up with. I'm sure it will be a more elegantly engineered innovative solution.

We’ll see. I don’t know how many he’ll sell though, or how much they will cost. One of the reasons the MN bearing is popular is because the designer sells them directly to a large Technics T/T user base on this forum, although latterly MCRU have been handling distribution. Arthur currently doesn’t enjoy that privilege (although that matter could be easily rectified).

So, what’s not elegantly engineered about the MN bearing?

Marco.

Clive197

17-09-2014, 13:58

............My pet hate, and I know that this doesn’t apply to you, are folk who, because they can’t afford the items in question, resolutely refuse to believe that they’re any good (as it helps them cope with the fact that they can’t afford them) - and worse - proceed to put others on forums off of them, simply because they can’t have them themselves. That *really* rips my knitting!! :rolleyes:

Marco.

I've seen, touched and heard the MNB. I can afford the MNB and may still purchase said item if I can get passed the confidence I need to fit the bl..dy thing. However it is very hard to arrange for an A/B comparison, which is the only way to get a definitive answer to how it compares to the stock bearing. Memory is a funny thing, when a new piece of equipment goes into a system, the perception is it's better/different/worse but that is not definitive, it can't be, unless you do a A/B comparison, your having a (maybe) guess. Even experienced professionals would be hard pushed to remember the exact nature of the sound much passed a couple of minutes.

Clive

Marco

17-09-2014, 16:05

Hi Clive,

I don’t disagree, but sometimes in hi-fi you just have to go with your gut and take a punt on something. The more you deliberate about it, the more indecisive you become, and the more nothing ever happens! ;)

After my own MN bearing was fitted, the sonic improvements were of the ‘no-brainer’ variety, so didn’t need much analysing or effective ‘aural memory’, in order to be certain that it had fundamentally upgraded my T/T - an effect that was enhanced even further with the addition of the bearing baseplate :)

Marco.

Clive197

17-09-2014, 16:21

Hi Clive,

I don’t disagree, but sometimes in hi-fi you just have to go with your gut and take a punt on something. The more you deliberate about it, the more indecisive you become, and the more nothing ever happens!....

Marco.

Oh believe me I've done that a few times. The last time was when I bought the OL Encounter Mk3A arm from 'phonomac'.

Clive

Marco

17-09-2014, 16:28

Cool… Then it’s probably time to do the same thing with the MN bearing ;)

Honestly, I doubt you’ll regret it.

Marco.

twotone

17-09-2014, 16:50

That’s fine, Darren. I don’t disagree with a word you’ve written.

However, the bottom line is at least Tony will have actually heard a Technics T/T, fitted with the above items, so as far as I’m concerned that entitles him to a valid opinion on them, unlike those who simply dismiss their efficacy, yet have zero relevant practical experience of the items concerned, which of course makes their opinion on them next to worthless.

Anyway, to even things up a little, we can fit Tony’s cartridge onto my T/T - that will at least remove one variable. Other than the tonearm then, as both T/Ts will be heard through the same system, we’ll essentially be listening to the differences between how we’ve modified our respective T/Ts. That’s got to be reasonably informative.

Tony, remind me, which arm and cartridge are you using? :)

Marco.

Micro Seiki MA-202 with HA-202 headshell and Reson Reca MM cart.

Don't get me wrong here I think the Technics deck is by far the best sounding deck I've personally owned and it sounds bloody amazing with what's on it at the minute (Abbey Road first press) which is probably why I have decided that is as far as I go with it but I'm really interested to hear a super-charged deck with all of the bits.

As Darren said above there is really no comparision between my deck and yours Marco or, probably, indeed my system but I am really looking forward to plugging your deck into my system, mainly cause I really want to hear a top top TT set up but also to hear what my system is really like with one in it.

Tony

Marco

17-09-2014, 17:24

Micro Seiki MA-202 with HA-202 headshell and Reson Reca MM cart.

Ah yes, I absolutely LOVE that arm, so can’t wait to hear it! I honestly wouldn’t expect there to be a hill of beans in it between that and my Ortofon.

Don't get me wrong here I think the Technics deck is by far the best sounding deck I've personally owned and it sounds bloody amazing with what's on it at the minute (Abbey Road first press) which is probably why I have decided that is as far as I go with it but I'm really interested to hear a super-charged deck with all of the bits.

I’m similarly looking forward to hearing your kit. In my experience, something useful is always learned from these exercises.

As Darren said above there is really no comparision between my deck and yours Marco or, probably, indeed my system but I am really looking forward to plugging your deck into my system, mainly cause I really want to hear a top top TT set up but also to hear what my system is really like with one in it.

We’ll try the Reson on my T/T and see what happens - that’ll be interesting, Do you have the ability to use MC cartridges - what’s your phono stage? It would be interesting strapping the SPU Royal to your Micro-Seiki! :eyebrows:

Marco.

twotone

17-09-2014, 17:40

Ah yes, I absolutely LOVE that arm, so can’t wait to hear it! I honestly wouldn’t expect there to be a hill of beans in it between that and my Ortofon.

I’m similarly looking forward to hearing your kit. In my experience, something useful is always learned from these exercises.

We’ll try the Reson on my T/T and see what happens - that’ll be interesting, Do you have the ability to use MC cartridges - what’s your phono stage? It would be interesting strapping the SPU Royal to your Micro-Seiki! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Hi Marco, no MC function mate, the phono stage is one of Alan's, a Firebottle MK1 MM phono with a (100 ohmn I think) resistor fitted for the cart.

Marco

17-09-2014, 17:45

That makes it even more interesting, as I liked the Firebottle stage I heard at NEBO 4, so it’ll be good to hear one again. S’ok, for MC duties, I’ll bring my head amp! ;)

Marco.

twotone

17-09-2014, 18:15

That makes it even more interesting, as I liked the Firebottle stage I heard at NEBO 4, so it’ll be good to hear one again. S’ok, for MC duties, I’ll bring my head amp! ;)

Marco.

:cool:

Setting Son

18-09-2014, 14:23

So, what’s not elegantly engineered about the MN bearing?

Marco.

Having to modify the PCB to fit it for a start.

Clive197

19-09-2014, 09:00

Having to modify the PCB to fit it for a start.

Ooh-Ah, that's were I come unstuck:rolleyes:

Clive

Marco

19-09-2014, 10:53

Having to modify the PCB to fit it for a start.

That’s not inelegant, in my view, but rather simply a practicality (which I accept is inconvenient for some), due to the MN bearing having been engineered to be as good as it possibly can within the limitations of the T/Ts design.

I’d rather that performance wasn’t sacrificed for convenience.

Marco.

Marco

19-09-2014, 10:56

Ooh-Ah, that's were I come unstuck:rolleyes:

Surely there must be someone on the forum, able to do the job, local to you who would fit the bearing for you? Have you tried asking? :)

Marco.

Ammonite Audio

19-09-2014, 11:01

Having to modify the PCB to fit it for a start.

Snipping short some protruding wires is hardly a major modification; certainly not one that precludes going back to a standard bearing in the (unlikely) event that you're unhappy with it. A simple matter of carefully following the instructions, that's all.

Marco

19-09-2014, 11:04

Indeed, Hugo, but I can understand why some wouldn’t want to do it. I didn’t - I got Dave Cawley to fit mine.

Marco.

belloire

19-09-2014, 11:51

i think Lee is right. there's nothing elegant about an upgrade that doesn't actually fit in the item it's designed for, no matter how good the item is?

Setting Son

19-09-2014, 11:57

This seems to have turned into an MN apologists thread.

Marco

19-09-2014, 12:10

Or people, like you, with a negative agenda ;)

Marco.

Setting Son

19-09-2014, 12:12

Sorry, could you qualify that accusation?

Marco

19-09-2014, 12:14

i think Lee is right. there's nothing elegant about an upgrade that doesn't actually fit in the item it's designed for, no matter how good the item is?

For goodness sake, all that matters is that with a little effort, it does fit (after all the T/T wasn’t originally designed to take it, so naturally a little effort is required to house it), and most importantly, when done, significantly improves the performance of the T/T!

Stop trying to make out there’s a problem when there is none.

Marco.

Marco

19-09-2014, 12:15

Sorry, could you qualify that accusation?

Your attitude to date on this thread, which I perceive is rather anti-Mike New. If that’s not your intention, then fair enough, but it’s how you're coming across, especially by using condescending and confrontational language, such as “apologists”. No more of that, please.

Marco.

RobbieGong

19-09-2014, 12:21

i think Lee is right. there's nothing elegant about an upgrade that doesn't actually fit in the item it's designed for, no matter how good the item is?

Elegant doesnt really matter here IMO and IME. Having fitted one to my own Techie I can tell you that the MN bearing doesnt go directly in without some amendment to accomade it, simply because it is a more substantial bearing. We are not talking butchering the Techie to accomodate the bearing but basic snipping away of things like sharp solder strands under the pcb which would otherwise get in the way and cause fouling. Nothing looks hacked up or messy once you are done unless you are clueless and or as subtle as a house brick with tools. :eek: :) and more to the point the little accomodating required is most definately worth it.

Setting Son

19-09-2014, 12:27

Your attitude to date on this thread, which I perceive is rather anti-Mike New. If that’s not your intention, then fair enough, but it’s how your coming across, especially by using condescending and confrontational language, such as “apologists”. No more of that, please.

Marco.

I haven't mentioned Mike New just his products. Obviously open discussion of these is not allowed here unless it's to sing their praises. Who really has an agenda, I wonder.

Stratmangler

19-09-2014, 12:44

Elegant doesnt really matter here IMO and IME. Having fitted one to my own Techie I can tell you that the MN bearing doesnt go directly in without some amendment to accomade it, simply because it is a more substantial bearing. We are not talking butchering the Techie to accomodate the bearing but basic snipping away of things like sharp solder strands under the pcb which would otherwise get in the way and cause fouling. Nothing looks hacked up or messy once you are done unless you are clueless and or as subtle as a house brick with tools. :eek: :) and more to the point the little accomodating required is most definately worth it.

Thanks for posting this Rob - saves me doing it.
The "modifications" that seem to be causing such a kerfuffle are in reality very simple to do, and does not involve the whole circuit board, just the area where the shoulder of the bearing come close to the PCB.
It really is just a matter of tidying up protruding legs of components that are soldered through the board, and shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes. That such a fuss is being made about it is a bit pathetic IMO - it's not rocket science.

belloire

19-09-2014, 12:48

i'm not making a fuss about the mods required to fit the MNB as i'll not be buying one. i just said that making something that doesn't actually fit where it's intended to go isn't an 'elegant solution'

nothing more.

Stratmangler

19-09-2014, 12:55

The point is it does fit!

belloire

19-09-2014, 13:10

so why do you need to modify the board?

Stratmangler

19-09-2014, 13:40

You don't modify the board!
You do trim some of the excessively long component legs where they'll come into contact with the new bearing.
Once trimmed there's plenty of clearance space.
The board has to come off the deck in order to access the original bearing for replacement anyway, so while it's off it's a trivial thing to trim off excess beneath the board.

Seeing as how you're not going to be buying one of these bearings why are you bothering to even make comment?
Methinks the Lady protesteth too much!

Setting Son

19-09-2014, 14:07

Sheesh, some people really do need purchase justification.

Stratmangler

19-09-2014, 14:20

Sheesh, some people really do need purchase justification.

I hope you're not including me in that!
I don't need or seek any peer justification!

I am somewhat bewildered by the "can't do" attitude of some folks, but on the flip side of that if I don't get results I don't get paid.
No safety net.
Not everyone is in the same boat.

belloire

19-09-2014, 14:38

I hope you're not including me in that!
I don't need or seek any peer justification!

I am somewhat bewildered by the "can't do" attitude of some folks, but on the flip side of that if I don't get results I don't get paid.
No safety net.
Not everyone is in the same boat.

didn't you just call me a girl for not agreeing? regardless of you're competence or confidence, having to doing anything to the board means it doesn't fit as standard. there are no if's or but's on that.

my problem with the mike new bearing is nothing to do with this issue, and in this case i most certainly 'can do', rather that fact it pretty much doubles the cost of my turntable whilst offering a potentially small upgrade, as i mentioned i'd rather buy records.......

this started as a thread about the benefits of the Inspire Mods package, that somewhere along the line has somehow managed to become a 'the Mike New bearing and piece of metal to attach it with' is the greatest feat of engineering since the Great Pyramid of Giza.

not everyone wants it, regardless of how good it might/might not be.

perhaps we should get back onto the Inspire kit?

Stratmangler

19-09-2014, 15:16

didn't you just call me a girl for not agreeing?

Did I?
I think not!
I was quoting Shakespeare.
I thought there was much ado about nothing (oh, there I go again).

regardless of you're competence or confidence, having to doing anything to the board means it doesn't fit as standard. there are no if's or but's on that.

my problem with the mike new bearing is nothing to do with this issue, and in this case i most certainly 'can do', rather that fact it pretty much doubles the cost of my turntable whilst offering a potentially small upgrade, as i mentioned i'd rather buy records.......

this started as a thread about the benefits of the Inspire Mods package, that somewhere along the line has somehow managed to become a 'the Mike New bearing and piece of metal to attach it with' is the greatest feat of engineering since the Great Pyramid of Giza.

not everyone wants it, regardless of how good it might/might not be.

perhaps we should get back onto the Inspire kit?

My take on the MNB is that it made a subtle improvement on what I had before.

A much more cost effective modification IMO is to take the standard bearing out, place an "O" ring in the well underneath and refit everything back together.
The O ring is very good at supporting the stock bearing and dampening vibration too.
This is what I ran before.

Now if you go directly from stock bearing with no tweaks to MNB it would seem that the huge stepup in quality is entirely down to the MNB.
My tinkerings tell me otherwise.
It is possible to get excellent results simply by supporting the bottom of the bearing with a rubber ring.

The MNB doesn't need the O ring, and it is subtly better than a tweaked stock bearing IMO/IME.
It might be even better with a bearing support plate - who knows?
All I know is that for the moment I don't care about it and I ain't going to be following this path anytime soon.

The MNB is not a cheap bit of kit I admit, but it is a very well made bit of kit!
Would I go back to a stock bearing?
No!

I agree that maybe it's time that we get back on topic :cool:

twotone

19-09-2014, 15:16

prestonchipfryer

19-09-2014, 15:17

Indeed, Hugo, but I can understand why some wouldn’t want to do it. I didn’t - I got Dave Cawley to fit mine.

Marco.

:eek:

Indeed as was mine. Fantastic value for musical pleasure. ;)

Stratmangler

19-09-2014, 15:18

For £450 it should fit without 'hacking bits off a PCB'.

:rfl:

twotone

19-09-2014, 15:19

:rfl:

Don't know what your laughing at unless you like throwing money about.

Stratmangler

19-09-2014, 15:22

Don't know what your laughing at unless you like throwing money about.

"Hacking bits off the board" - I've never heard anything funnier!

Clive197

19-09-2014, 17:07

Interesting that Marco got somebody else to install said bearing. Issue is not with the snipping off of component tails but with the filing down of the solder joints, very easy to overdo if not careful. If any of you say this is not necessary, may I respectfully advise you read the instructions, which clearly and in red advise said action. David at MCRU kindly sent a installation review to me along with the installation instruction. Review stated that the filling must be done or the bearing will short out as they did on the reviewers model. The filling down is where confidence escapes me.

If some kind soul, who knows what they are doing wants to come to my home in NW London to fit said item, I will supply coffee and biscuits and will be ever so grateful.

Clive

Stratmangler

19-09-2014, 17:12

but with the filing down of the solder joints, very easy to overdo if not careful

Filing down the solder joints?
There's no need to do that if you use appropriate cutters.
I'm pleased to have not been given the installation instructions if that's what all the fuss is about.

I'm more than happy to come and install it for you as long as you pay for the fuel and running expenses ;)

Marco

19-09-2014, 17:24

I haven't mentioned Mike New just his products. Obviously open discussion of these is not allowed here unless it's to sing their praises. Who really has an agenda, I wonder.

Not at all, but I have to question *your* purpose on this thread, as clearly you have no interest in using any of the products being discussed here, and the tone of your posts is irritating and unnecessarily confrontational (your most recent post 104 is on similar lines), as I don’t take kindly to being referred to, rather rudely, as an ‘apologist'.

Therefore, improve your attitude from now on or you won’t be here for much longer to do otherwise.

Marco.

Clive197

19-09-2014, 17:24

Filing down the solder joints?
There's no need to do that if you use appropriate cutters.
I'm pleased to have not been given the installation instructions if that's what all the fuss is about.

I'm more than happy to come and install it for you as long as you pay for the fuel and running expenses ;)

Thank you very much for the kind offer but I was thinking of somebody a little more local.

Clive

Marco

19-09-2014, 17:30

The point is it does fit!

Exactly - and that is precisely the whole point! Now, as has been correctly suggested, let’s return the discussion to the original thread topic. Oh, and that’s not a request, incidentally! ;)

Marco.

P.S Glad you’re sorted now, Clive :)

Stratmangler

19-09-2014, 17:32

Thank you very much for the kind offer but I was thinking of somebody a little more local.

Clive

I work all over the country, but unfortunately I don't know whereabouts until few days before.
I'm going down to Oxford on Tuesday, but I'll be back home the same evening (early start/late finish).
If I have any stopover jobs near NW Lundun I'd be happy to oblige - after all it's about 10 minutes of a job to fit the MNB.

Setting Son

19-09-2014, 17:52

Not at all, but I have to question *your* purpose on this thread, as clearly you have no interest in using any of the products being discussed here, and the tone of your posts is irritating and unnecessarily confrontational (your most recent post 104 is on similar lines), as I don’t take kindly to being referred to, rather rudely, as an ‘apologist'.

Therefore, improve your attitude from now on or you won’t be here for much longer to do otherwise.

Marco.

Agree with your take on everything or be banned, is that it? Do whatever makes you feel like the big man.

Marco

19-09-2014, 18:00

That’s not what I’m saying at all. I don’t give a shit if you agree with me or not.

What I do care about, and indeed INSIST upon, is you putting your point across in a way that’s respectful to the opposing views of others, instead of simply being irritating and rude. You can express your opinion without being impudent.

If you’re unable to do that, then you’re not welcome here. Simples.

Marco.

Setting Son

19-09-2014, 18:15

It was you who accused me of having an agenda because I questioned the implementation of the MNB.

Marco

19-09-2014, 18:22

Lee, I’m not debating this matter with you any further. You referred to others and I as “apologists”, and have been continually irritating throughout this thread. I accused you of having an agenda AFTER you referred to people as “apologists". Then you accused others of needing “purchase justification”.

Why use such antagonistic language to put your point across? I think that’s ample evidence of your agenda, which quite clearly, is anti-Mike New.

Your behaviour has done nothing whatsoever to convince me that you don’t have an agenda, so prove me wrong. AoS is a friendly forum, so we don't address each other in a way that is liable to cause offence, nor do we tolerate rudeness.

Therefore, do what you’ve been asked to do or leave. Any further 'back chat' will result in it being removed and the issuing of a week’s ban.

Marco.

Setting Son

19-09-2014, 18:32

Hehe, listen to yourself. 'Impudence', 'back chat' etc. Go ahead and 'ground' me for a week or for good, I really couldn't give a fuck about what you think or how you rule your little empire.

Marco

19-09-2014, 18:37

Lovely language… Ah well, looks like I was right.

When you’re a member of this forum, you comply with the rules, the same as on any other forum. Furthermore, every forum has an owner, and you respect the fact that when a warning is issued, the forum owner’s word is final. That’s how it is. It’s got nothing to do with there being an “empire”. As you’re clearly unwilling to behave, then you are unwelcome here.

Ok, folks, let’s get the thread back on topic!

Marco.

belloire

19-09-2014, 19:29

Lovely language… Ah well, looks like I was right.

When you’re a member here, you comply with the rules, the same as on any other forum. Furthermore, every forum has an owner, and you respect the fact that the owner’s word is final. That’s how it is. As you’re clearly unwilling to behave, then you are unwelcome here.

Ok, folks, let’s get the thread back on topic!

Marco.

This is exactly the issue. This is a thread about the inspire upgrades, and you were the one that brought the mn bearing into it, and you were the one that pretty much said inspire don't have the skills to make a 're-engineered' bearing like mike.

I rarely read any section of the forum apart from the analogue section, and particularly the techie bit. Some amazing folk on here, with great advice and skills. However, more and more it's becoming a mike new love in.

I can't understand why though. He makes a bearing, which by all accounts is very good, if expensive, a ridiculously heavy metal platter, a much more sensible delrin platter and a bit of drilled metal to stop the chassis bending under the weight of the crazy platter. Not a great deal in real terms.... Yet you seem to be disparaging to those who have other, rival, equipment in the field. How you can say Arthur of pt and funk fame hasn't the skills to make a ground up bearing is beyond me. Do you know nothing of turntable history?

There was no need to mention the mn bearing on this thread at all, but you couldn't stop yourself could you? And now anybody that disagrees is out. Crazy!

I'll never buy a mike new product myself. Not because of the price, I can afford it if I want to, but because of the arrogance of the man himself.

There really is nothing new that can be added to the SL1200 that has not already been done.
Staggering!

I realise it's your forum, and your rules, but I think you need to stop yourself before the techipedia is renamed mike new corner.

Stop, look and think.

synsei

19-09-2014, 19:43

Marco

19-09-2014, 19:45

Unless he apologies for his outburst, yes. It would’ve only have been for a week, until he unleashed the invective.

Darren, you and I are obviously on a very different page, so I think we should simply agree to disagree and move on, as I don’t have the energy to argue with you.

Now, I insist that this thread gets back on topic - and by that I mean talking about hi-fi, not personalities! Any further posts of that nature will be removed without further notice.

Marco.

synsei

19-09-2014, 20:17

Having now read back through this exchange I have to agree with Darren, you over-reacted big time IMHO and frankly I am not surprised you are copping some flack for it. May I ask if Lee's ban is permanent?

Hehe, listen to yourself. 'Impudence', 'back chat' etc. Go ahead and 'ground' me for a week or for good, I really couldn't give a fuck about what you think or how you rule your little empire.

It would seem that I missed this post unfortunately which puts a different complexion on things... :eyebrows: My apologies Marco... ;)

Addressing some of Darren's points, it would be foolish to dismiss the expertise of Funk and Inspire even though they don't currently supply an upgraded bearing for the Techie. I'd bet my hat (if I had one) that both these outfits (and others no doubt) are more than able to produce such an item, the question is whether it is financially viable for them to do so. In Inspire's case probably not as they already have an award winning and successful product based on the SL12xx on their books and very nice it is too. It would appear that AK is busy developing his own product so we will just have to wait and see, knowing Arthur it is likely to be an elegant and somewhat 'off piste' iteration ;)

Marco

19-09-2014, 20:36

It would seem that I missed this post unfortunately which puts a different complexion on things... :eyebrows: My apologies Marco... ;)

Thank you, Dave. No way am I putting up with that sort of abuse, when all I was insisting on were some manners. No other forum owner would’ve tolerated that.

...it would be foolish to dismiss the expertise of Funk and Inspire even though they don't currently supply an upgraded bearing for the Techie. I'd bet my hat (if I had one) that both these outfits (and others no doubt) are more than able to produce such an item…

I completely agree.

The point I was making before (if you scroll back and read the earlier posts on this thread) is that, sonically, contrary to the belief of some, it is very much worthwhile producing an engineered-from-the-ground-up bearing for the Technics SL-1200/1210, as the stock item is ok, but built to a price, and so let’s not forget that Mike New was the first to put his hand in his pocket and do just that.

Many 100s of satisfied owners worldwide currently enjoy using his bearings, which have significantly improved the performance of their T/Ts, and so HIS is the one to beat, regardless of the ability, or otherwise, of Funk or Inspire to produce something of equal efficacy or better.

The fact is, they need to PROVE that. Therefore, let them do it and then have their designs tested, on otherwise identical Technics T/Ts, one of which is fitted with an MN bearing (perhaps the likes of Hi-Fi Choice could take this on?) and I for one would welcome reading the results! :)

Don’t get me wrong, consumer choice is good. However, when Inspire or Funk have sold 100s of bearings worldwide to satisfied Technics T/T users, as Mike New has done, then that’s when they will provide his product with genuine competition. Until then, it's simply pie in the sky.

Marco.

KC Jones

19-09-2014, 22:32

Gosh,
I don’t visit this site too often these days (nothing personal, just busy) maybe once a week to catch up with ‘analogue art’, ‘artist’s palette’ and ‘for sale.’ And there always seems to be a row going on?

Anyway, as a technics user and not a particular lover of MN or some gezer called Marco? I would imagine the MN bearing has a constant manufactured spec. Mine fitted perfect with no trimming of over soldered protruding wires required, which says to me, it is the Technics 1210 that varies in production over the years and is at fault, not the bearing

Marco

19-09-2014, 22:37

Gosh,
I don’t visit this site too often these days (nothing personal, just busy) maybe once a week to catch up with ‘analogue art’, ‘artist’s palette’ and ‘for sale.’ And there always seems to be a row going on?

Hardly. Would you care to produce some evidence of that, in the form of quotes, from the respective areas of the forum you’ve mentioned, other than the disagreement here earlier?

Anyway, as a technics user and not a particular lover of MN or some gezer called Marco?

Erm, excuse me, what exactly are you trying to say?

Marco.

KC Jones

19-09-2014, 23:00

Marco

'MN Lover, Marco geezer' It was written in wit.
I just didn't want to be accused of any pandering to MN or site owners!
It was also in support of NM bearings.

I was just reading last week an oldish thread or two about slic cables, then read this one tonight..LOL.
Nothing more. Nothing nasty meant, just humour. I'm off to bed, night.

PS - What's a troll?

Marco

19-09-2014, 23:15

Hi Kevin,

Don’t worry about it. Just a bit touchy tonight, after the shenanigans earlier with SS, and the meaning behind your post was a little ambiguous.

Thanks for your input. I do agree with the point you’re making (shown below), nighty night! :)

I would imagine the MN bearing has a constant manufactured spec. Mine fitted perfect with no trimming of over soldered protruding wires required, which says to me, it is the Technics 1210 that varies in production over the years and is at fault, not the bearing...

Yup!

Marco.

KC Jones

19-09-2014, 23:19

No worries Marco, I shall word thing better in future.
Cheers.

Marco

20-09-2014, 14:08

Having considered the matter, I don’t think I can let some of these comments go unchallenged...

This is exactly the issue. This is a thread about the inspire upgrades, and you were the one that brought the mn bearing into it, and you were the one that pretty much said inspire don't have the skills to make a 're-engineered' bearing like mike.

Darren, it stands to reason that the MN bearing is likely to be discussed on ANY thread about Technics T/T upgrades (as it is frequently mentioned here as being one of the most fundamental improvements), so there’s nothing unusual there, particularly as I was asked a direct question by Setting Son about the base plate, which brought the subject of the MN bearing back up, and then things, erm, ‘kicked off’ from there.

As for your other point, see my post (above) to Synsei. Furthermore, if you read my original reply here to the OP, and the advice I offered him, you’ll see that it wasn't exactly 'anti-Inspire’!

I rarely read any section of the forum apart from the analogue section, and particularly the techie bit. Some amazing folk on here, with great advice and skills. However, more and more it's becoming a mike new love in.

Rather than being factual, I would say that’s simply your perception; a situation very easy to arrive at when, as a non-MN bearing user, you’re not involved personally in the discussions.

It’s rather like the oft-made accusation of AoS simply being a ‘Techy fanboy’s paradise’, when in reality there are umpteen discussions, about all manner of different T/Ts, all over Analogue Art and also in other parts of the forum. Therefore, the state of your mindset can often cloud actual reality.

If or when Funk and/or Inspire introduce their own bespoke bearings for the Technics, and they sell in significant quantities to users worldwide, such as the MN bearing has done, then there might exist a similar “love in” for them, which of course you would be free to join ;)

I can't understand why though. He makes a bearing, which by all accounts is very good, if expensive, a ridiculously heavy metal platter, a much more sensible delrin platter and a bit of drilled metal to stop the chassis bending under the weight of the crazy platter.

Unless you’re being deliberately obtuse, you should know that is not the primary function of the base plate, as I explained earlier to SS. Please scroll back, read the relevant post, and then remember what the main purpose of the base plate is in future.

There was no need to mention the mn bearing on this thread at all, but you couldn't stop yourself could you? And now anybody that disagrees is out. Crazy!

I’ve already explained why discussion of the MN bearing was legitimately brought up. As for people disagreeing, I have no problem with that, providing it is done without rancour, and without obvious rudeness and disdain shown towards one’s ‘opponent’. Unfortunately Setting Son was guilty of precisely the opposite, which is why he was pulled up about it and subsequently dealt with.

I'll never buy a mike new product myself. Not because of the price, I can afford it if I want to, but because of the arrogance of the man himself.

The quote you’ve taken completely out of context does not necessarily mean that Mike is arrogant.

If he believes that, I quote: “there really is nothing new that can be added to the SL1200 that has not already been done”, then that's his honest opinion (one, no doubt based on considerable experience), which he’s entitled to. It’s also an opinion I share. Perhaps you could offer a counter-argument, outlining what exactly is left to do that hasn’t already been done?

Furthermore, in terms of the accusation of arrogance, he’s far from alone, as Arthur K stropped off of this forum, simply because Martin T made negative (but 100% honest and constructive) comments about a new Funk platter for the Technics, which he sent Martin to test and review on AoS. Quite simply, AK couldn’t take the entirely justified criticism of his product from Martin, almost as if he thought ‘how dare he’, and so ran off in a huff...

Therefore, trust me, Mike’s not the only audio designer who’s prone to the odd bout of ‘Prima Donna-syndrome’ or egotism!

I realise it's your forum, and your rules, but I think you need to stop yourself before the techipedia is renamed mike new corner.

Stop, look and think.

Another gross exaggeration of the facts, which is also more than a little condescending. I’d argue that it is YOU who should take off the blinkers and read things properly, by following your own advice above! :)

Marco.

Clive197

22-09-2014, 14:12

Yeah Ha, I've done it, it works, Mike's bearing is in. Does it sound better? The jury is still out but 1st impressions are favourable.
Thank you to David at MCRU for his support. Bl..dy Hell where have those cymbals come from. Listening to Jeff Beck Live At Ronnie Scott's. If I've told you once, I've told you a hundred times, Tal Wilkenfield can sure play that Bass.

Clive

Marco

22-09-2014, 15:21

Nice one, Clive. I love it when a plan (and the AoS community) comes together! :hifive:

Keep us posted of your thoughts, as the MN bearing beds in and you become more accustomed to the new and improved sound. Enjoy rediscovering your record collection! :)

Marco.

prestonchipfryer

22-09-2014, 15:30

Marco

22-09-2014, 15:47

…despite the pathetic (and unsuccessful) efforts of some folk to pooh-pooh it ;)

Marco.

RobbieGong

22-09-2014, 16:55

Nice one Clive, Glad you are loving the postitive effect. You've a nice deck there and a lovely arm. I'm surprised you didnt bite sooner re: the MN bearing. Do you have an external psu fitted ? I honestly think you'll be amazed at how good and right it will all sound, with an ETP platter fittted too. :) (Maybe this should be continued in the MN bearing section ?)

Clive197

22-09-2014, 17:53

I think this thread is about upgrades for the Teccie. So to answer your question. I don't have an external PSU for two reasons. I'm not going to play with electricity. The furthest I've gone with that is to make up my own power leads which did not involve a soldering iron. If you had seen my soldering you would put your hands over your eyes while shaking your head. Secondly and probably more importantly is I have absolutely no where to put it. My rack is 400x500mm and has 5 shelves with 14 bits of kit sitting on it, including said Teccie.

Clive

Andrei

22-09-2014, 20:47

…despite the pathetic (and unsuccessful) efforts of some folk to pooh-pooh it ;)

Marco.
Who? But in any event it is not a matter within your knowledge, as you cannot know who has chosen not to purchase, nor for what reason - where success or otherwise is a matter of (relative) quantity, or proportion. Contrast that to an all or nothing outcome, eg Scottish Independence where being unsuccessful is 100% despite a proportion of voters for it.

Marco

22-09-2014, 21:07

Who?

Setting Son, who has since been banned for his disgraceful outburst (see post 123).

Marco.

ChrisKemp

03-10-2014, 22:58

I've read the intire thread and frankly I'm a little shocked by some remarks!

The reason why I keep reading and writing on AoS is because it's a friendly forum. Hope it will stay that way:)

And it's the same with just about any upgrade you make in a system. Some hear a better sound quality others don't. It does'nt always mean that the upgrade is not giving the expected resoult. It could also mean that the rest of your system is not up to it. It simply isn't good enough. Or it can be your hearing. You just don't have good enough hearing.

I'd say that the MNB is maybe not what it adds. It is more what it lets you hear. A more quiet background makes for a blacker background. Like a good quality plasma screen or the new OLED screens, with incredible black level. With better blacks, the total picture is jus so much better. You see everything clearer with better blacks.

That is how I think the MNB works. It gives better blacks and the music comes forward much more natural.

And the talk about the MNB does not fit and one has to cut and modify the pcb. Well, if you call cutting off some long solder points on the rear with a simple nail clipper difficult, well maybe the upgrade thing is not for you. If you can cut your own finger nails, well then you can fit the bearing.

My M5G original bearing was in good shape. But the difference between the MNB was easy to hear. It's a fantastic upgrade and after about 100 hours even better!

ChrisKemp

03-10-2014, 23:20

And just a reminder that what we are discussing here, is just a fantastic turntable and not global politics. This hobby or passion called hifi is suppose to bring us joy and happiness:) So here is a pic of my beautiful 1210M5G (only changed out the DL-103R for the Ortofon 2M Black). Look and enjoy and lets be happy:)

http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13304&stc=1&d=1412377873.jpg

Stratmangler

03-10-2014, 23:37

This hobby or passion called hifi is suppose to bring us joy and happiness:)

Amen!

Stratmangler

03-10-2014, 23:39

inspirehifi

13-10-2014, 15:16

Hi all

This thread has been brought to my attention by one of my employees. Whilst I have not read through the whole thread, I would like to clarify a couple of points.

Marco has done a good job in highlighting a few of the Tecno Package benefits. However, he stated our technics plinth system was not a proper wooden plinth. Just to be clear, the plinths are solid wood in various choices with an MDF base with a solid wood surround. Our Technics Plinth System has a 5 star award from Hi Fi Choice.

Regarding the bearing modification. We do use CNC facilities, which we use for many of our products. When we prototyped various bearings for the technics we found the absolute best method was to replace the entire brass open housed bearing with a new sealed unit phospher bronze bearing re-inserted within the original bearing holder. We found this was a more worthwhile upgrade to the bearing, and as usual we take costing very seriously. E.g. We could machine something like the Mike New bearing but this would be an added cost to the package and we consider our phospher bronze bearing addresses all the issues at much less cost.

I thank Marco and everybody else on the thread for their input. If anyone would like any further information, please call us on 01246 472222 or email robert@inspirehifi.co.uk

Andrei

13-10-2014, 19:28

Robert,
As you can see there is a large subforum on the 1200 / 1210 so input from Inspire is very welcome. What I like about the Inspire package is that it appears to address, not just one or two things, but everything: Power/Motor, Bearing, Plinth, Platter, Arm, Isolation, not to mention simply good looks. Given my own costs in addressing all these issues as a benchmark, it does appear that the Inspire path is cost-effective. I do have a query though: why was aluminium chosen for underneath the platter?
In the meantime, thank you for taking the trouble to comment.

6L6

14-10-2014, 00:21

I do have a query though: why was aluminium chosen for underneath the platter?

I will guess and think it's attached with an adhesive that is still a little bit flexible when cured, and it's constrained layer damping.

Marco

14-10-2014, 10:22

Hi Robert,

Nice to hear from you, and thanks for your input :)

However, he stated our technics plinth system was not a proper wooden plinth. Just to be clear, the plinths are solid wood in various choices with an MDF base with a solid wood surround. Our Technics Plinth System has a 5 star award from Hi Fi Choice.

Indeed, although what I meant was that the plinth is not an integral part of the T/Ts design, but rather a (solid wooden) ‘box’ within which the Technics, in its stock plinth, sits inside. However, I do consider that your overall 'Technics Plinth System’, apart from being visually attractive, would also be sonically effective.

A bespoke, designed-from-the-ground-up solid wood plinth, housing the SL-1200/1210 motor unit and control electronics, is another matter, and perhaps something you might consider in future?

Regarding the bearing modification. We do use CNC facilities, which we use for many of our products. When we prototyped various bearings for the technics we found the absolute best method was to replace the entire brass open housed bearing with a new sealed unit phospher bronze bearing re-inserted within the original bearing holder. We found this was a more worthwhile upgrade to the bearing, and as usual we take costing very seriously.

Thanks for the clarification. I have no doubt that your modifications to the Technics bearing are highly effective, and thus offer a significant sonic upgrade over the stock item. However, just as your plinth for the Technics differs from how an integral solid-wood plinth (as mentioned above) would behave, so does your bearing, in comparison with a bespoke, engineered-from-the-ground-up item, such as Mike New produces.

Of course, whether that means one sounds/performs better than the other, is largely down to subjective tastes, and also perhaps how well-implemented are whatever modifications have been carried out to a particular Technics turntable. I’m sure you’d agree that in reference to any T/T modifications, the sum of the parts, in terms of its effect, is more important than that of any individual part, hence why we talk about ‘synergy’.

E.g. We could machine something like the Mike New bearing but this would be an added cost to the package and we consider our phospher bronze bearing addresses all the issues at much less cost.

Precisely. At the end of the day, it comes down to cost, and the viability of increasing that cost to potential customers.

As for the claim that your "phospher bronze bearing addresses all the issues”, I guess that’s something which would require assessing, say, by comparing two identical Technics T/Ts, one fitted with your bearing, and the other an MN one. That’s really the only way of ascertaining whether what you claim is true.

In that respect, could you just confirm one thing for me please… Have you ever examined a Mike New bearing up close or listened to an SL-1200 or 1210 fitted with one? I’m simply curious, and for the record, it would be good to know.

As an aside, I should say that I consider the Inspire modifications to the Technics, and what you’ve achieved in that respect with the Monarch, to be superb, very well thought out and no doubt highly effective. Therefore, you should be congratulated for that, especially in helping keep direct-drive alive in the high-end T/T market. I genuinely believe that it offers fundamental and worthwhile advantages over that provided by the belt-drive turntables most commonly seen today.

Perhaps at some point I could come down to the factory for a listen to the Monarch, as its design has always intrigued me. Keep up the good work! :cool:

Marco.