I've gone all retro and I won't be looking back

[lovejoy]

Following on from last year when I had a friends Naim CDi to repair - Having repaired it (replaced the transport), I spent a couple of weeks with it in my system, just to make sure it worked OK before it went back of course and in that time, I spent more time listening to CDs than I've ever done before. Every single disc I played was an absolute joy to listen to and since then I've been looking around for a broken CDi or something along those lines for myself. They're not exactly easy to come across though, so I ended up buying a Naim DAC thinking it might get me somewhere down that road and have been running various transports - both CD and streaming - into the DAC. Great as it is, it's never got me back to that point of sheer enjoyment. When the CDi was in my system, I was having some seriously late nights of CD after CD and loving every minute of it, but that has just not happened since it went back.

So I got reading about the old TDA1541 DACs and all of the players that sported one and in the absence of picking up a cheap CDi, just out of sheer curiosity I picked myself up an old Philips CD-582 for next to nothing last week with the intention of seeing how far I could tweak it and whether, being a TDA1541 player with a CDM4 mechanism, it had any chance of sounding even remotely like a CDi.

Well, things didn't start well because the box it got sent in was battered and the player was half hanging out of its packaging by the time it arrived - no doubt good old Parcel Force had been playing football with it, thanks guys! Nevertheless, no damage done, the transit bolts were in place and when I powered it up, it worked perfectly. I love that retro 80s display - big clear blue LED numbering for track and time. Although the whole feel of the deck is rather plasticky, the tray is nice and solid and the transport controls are super fast and responsive - Unlike any of the BluRay players I've tried as transports.

I honestly hadn't expected much from the stock player and on starting the first CD, it sounded rather thin and distant and my expectations were pretty much spot on, but after an hour of listening it had clearly warmed up and I was not only playing disc after disc, I was listening to things all the way through (a good gauge in my books that I'm really enjoying what I am hearing). By midnight I'd listened to CDs I'd bought in the last year but never played all the way through and by 2am I decided I'd better get off to bed.

What an absolute treat, and all for £30. It sounds so good, I had to take the lid off it over the weekend as I was convinced that someone had to have done some tweaking about inside and the first thing I noticed were some Nichicon Muse caps on the output stage so I though to myself 'ah there we go' but a little research (and the service manual) revealed these to be stock parts, so the player, unbelievably, is in an unmodified state. At the moment ;-).

So how does it sound? Well, if you're familiar with TDA1541 based players I won't need to say a lot, but it's punchy, it's weighty, it's got a massive wide and deep soundstage, it's detailed, it times wonderfully. It's just thoroughly addictive. Is it anywhere near a CDi? Yes it is! It shares many of the CDis traits. Where it falls down is in the HF which can be a little messy and mechanical sounding at times, but I shall be working on that as the nights draw in with some attention to DAC decoupling, power supplies and maybe a better clock, but one thing it has over the Naim is that slight peak in the mids that could make the CDi a little shouty which is completely lacking here.

After these revelations, I feel my listening habits are changing again - Streaming is being relegated to radio duties only, Spotify is being relegated to the car and mobile use and if I want to really enjoy music at home, it'll be a combination of this player and the turntable. All of a sudden, everything feels just right again!

I might just start a bit of a collection of TDA1541 based players!

[walpurgis]

I think CD is a bit of a rude word here really, but I thoroughly enjoy mine. I believe a lot of people regard it as a dead format now, but I see no reason not to keep mine (and the vinyl of course).

[lovejoy]

I know a lot of this is all completely subjective, but it surprises me how much we seem to have gone backwards with digital audio since the late 80s early 90s, but I've owned a fair few CD players in the last 10 years which, going by most opinons and reviews were no slouches - I had a Densen B410, an Audiolab 8200CD and a CDQ and I've owned numerous DACs and gone down numerous streaming avenues, but none of this has even begun to come close to how much I'm enjoying this little Philips.

Is it that in these days of chipsets that decode MP3s, FLACs etc., run at lower rates of power consumption and be so forgiving of poor quality incoming signals that ultimate audio quality has been sacrificed?

[Firebottle]

Interesting post Rich, I have a Philips CD610, quite an old machine, the second one bought brand new after the first got nicked :steam:

The second one was so much better in soundstage, imaging and openness, quite a surprise.
I bought a Naim CD5i as an upgrade and it is to the Philips credit that it is not that far behind the Naim in performance.
I really should get around to doing some tweaks to the Philips,

:cool: Alan

[Macca]

Yes I agree - it is funny how you get people saying that digital audio has come on in leaps and bounds and that is where all the progress in hi-fi is now being made. What a load of cobblers that is. I'm currently using an early 1990s B&O player with 1541 chip, it has some interesting strengths.

[Gordon Steadman]

Interesting post Rich, I have a Philips CD610, quite an old machine, the second one bought brand new after the first got nicked :steam:

The second one was so much better in soundstage, imaging and openness, quite a surprise.
I bought a Naim CD5i as an upgrade and it is to the Philips credit that it is not that far behind the Naim in performance.
I really should get around to doing some tweaks to the Philips,

:cool: Alan

I have the 608 and it sounds really good. I'd be quite happy to listen to it in the main system if there was nothing else in the house. Given the huge amount of support the Marantz 63 players get, its surprising that the order of preference in this household's four players is:
Pioneer PL7700 (stable platter)
Marantz CD62
Phillips 608
Marantz CD63Si.

CD sounds very good to me. OK the vinyl still has it for serious listening but only by a little. Sometimes that little is just not worth worrying about as - shock horror - there are other things to do in life than just sit and concentrate on the music.

Hopefully there will be more time now I'm sort of officially retired but how I ever found the time when I was younger I don't know.

[Geoff101]

And when you take the top off a more modern CD player costing hundreds (or more!) and find a PC CD rom inside as the transport, it doesn't exactly fill you with pride.

I'm a big fan of the Philips swing arm transport and DACs. I'm currently using a Morgan Audio CDPro-9 which uses the rare CDM9 Pro and not at all rare TDA1543 DAC. Would prefer a 1541 but a decent output stage makes up for it.

Incedentally, I have a small stock of very rare unused TDA1541A-S1 Dacs if anybody ever needs one. Guaranteed genuine unlike most you see for sale as I know where they've been since new!

Geoff

[lovejoy]

Hi Geoff,
I'd certainly be interested. The S1 can be used as a direct drop in replacement for the standard TDA 1541A can it not? But I guess that it will benefit more from some supporting component improvements, but probably a good thing to do along with upgrading the decoupling caps around the DAC.

[Geoff101]

Hi Geoff,
I'd certainly be interested. The S1 can be used as a direct drop in replacement for the standard TDA 1541A can it not? But I guess that it will benefit more from some supporting component improvements, but probably a good thing to do along with upgrading the decoupling caps around the DAC.

Yes, it is a drop in replacement. I've sent you a PM.

[StanleyB]

And when you take the top off a more modern CD player costing hundreds (or more!) and find a PC CD rom inside as the transport, it doesn't exactly fill you with pride.
What make of CD player was that?

[jandl100]

I'm not surprised at your findings about the cheap as chips Philips CD player.

I've found similar things with a Philips CD753 with a TDA1549 chip.
Superb on small to medium scale music - genuine audiophile quality imho - but it lost its mojo to an extent on Big Music. But hey, these things cost £30 or so on eBay these days. And maybe tweaking the PS would help with the big stuff.

As for vintage in general - you'd need an industrial class crowbar to part me from my 1980s Technics SL-P1200 cdp. :lol:

IMHO digital tech has not advanced over the intervening years - in terms of tech-spec, sure - but not in terms of musical delivery. :nono:

[The Black Adder]

Your right though Jerry-o leaps in sound delivery is certainly not the case but and bounds in marketing to sheep is more like it.

[Søren]

Just found this, when i searched for the player. Perhaps it`s something for you? http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-End-Mod-for-Philips-CD582-TDA1541A-/200722894373

[Geoff101]

Quite a few use computer CD or DVD transports. Search for 'DVD' here:
http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/

Some Densen models I think too.

[Thetiminator]

I had an Esoteric player until a few months ago. About a year ago it had to go away for some updates. So I was left sans music for a couple of weeks which is obviously unacceptable.

A mate of mine has an old Wadia (from the late 80's) that he hasn't used in years, so I borrowed it for a bit to keep me going. Although 25 years ago the wadia was the dogs, obviously things have moved forward so much that I knew it would be a case of any music is better than no music. Right?

Err wrong. The 25 year old wadia blew my Esoteric into the weeds. It was simply so much better in every area.

Unfortunately it's a four box affair and the dac only accepts TNT glass so it's not practical for me which is a shame, as it is, without a doubt the best CD player I ever heard.

[Thetiminator]

Quite a few use computer CD or DVD transports. Search for 'DVD' here:
http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/

Some Densen models I think too.

Most high end units I've auditioned have used CD-ROM drives.....

[Reffc]

I've also been down the route of expensive players, from The Droplet, Accuphase, some higher end MFs a few years back, but currently use a £40 Technics bought from Ebay. It sounds great. The Droplet was possibly the most enjoyable player I've ever owned, and although it wasn't accurate sounding, that did it no harm at all. It's a little like one's eyes being opened by some really decent vintage cartridges (Decca, Nagoaka etc). Have things moved on? Yes, of course, but it doesn't mean that older tech wasn't any good because there's a wealth of bargains to be had where CDPs are concerned...just be careful to pick wisely as a lot of older transports may no longer be available!

[Thetiminator]

Hi Paul
The cable is sounding superb....looking good too ;)

[Andrei]

Maybe we will see another thread: "I've gone all retro and I won't be looking forward"?

[Reffc]

Maybe we will see another thread: "I've gone all retro and I won't be looking forward"?

We'd need to start it at the end and each post would lead back to the beginning:eyebrows:





Hi Paul
The cable is sounding superb....looking good too :thumbsup:

[lovejoy]

Just found this, when i searched for the player. Perhaps it`s something for you? http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-End-Mod-for-Philips-CD582-TDA1541A-/200722894373

Thanks for that, I'd stumbled across that myself. The seller has quite a few different options on offer. Some serious reading around to do, but I've got a lot of CDs to catch up on at the moment it seems ;-)

[loonytunes]

I certainly know what you mean when it comes to musical retro tech. I have some fantastic old DACs that sing, the Arcam Black Box 1 which houses two TDA1541A DACs, and a DAC Magic 2i (improved) back in the day which sport the TDA1549 DACs.

They are very musical DACs and it's hard to get engrossed in modern DACs... until now... until I found out very recently that the little Arcam irDAC has musicality in spades!

I've tried many DACs at home and subsequently returned them - including expensive DACs like the Wyred4Sound variant. Nothing has come close to the "musicality" offered by that diminutive little irDAC (not rDAC but the latest irDAC)! I certainly did not return this one! I put my money where my mouth is!

In order to evaluate it properly your need to have it powered up and running for 3 days at least to allow break in - and not just for a couple of hours cold out of the box. This DACs sings like an old ladder DAC, and then some. It really does weave some musical magic.

[The Barbarian]

I have three CD player at hand all vintage. A Technics 'SLP-770' {Approx 1987} Technics 'SLP-1000' {Approx 1987} Modified Mission 'DAD-7000R' {Approx 1985} The '7000' uses TD1540 DAC's.. However i modded to machine to Non oversampling.

[mr sneff]

I have three CD player at hand all vintage. A Technics 'SLP-770' {Approx 1987} Technics 'SLP-1000' {Approx 1987} Modified Mission 'DAD-7000R' {Approx 1985} The '7000' uses TD1540 DAC's.. However i modded to machine to Non oversampling.

I thought CDs were banned at your gaff, Andre :scratch:

[The Barbarian]

Don't use em Dave. I do have some for the bonus tracks but other than that if the wife wants to use them when im out fine.

[DiveDeepDog]

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5579/14985696187_8f400bf646_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oQeBoc)IMG_1581 (https://flic.kr/p/oQeBoc) by levs the diver (https://www.flickr.com/people/49381909@N08/), on Flickr


I think this uses 2 x 1540 chips?

It's on par with my JK Ciunas, makes you wonder what they've been up to?

[lovejoy]

I used to have one of those. Built like a tank. I was always annoyed by the fact that you couldn't skip back through tracks though. It was a pretty good sounding player though as I remember.

[The Barbarian]

I bought both the Mission 'DAD7000' & the Meridian 'MCD Pro' when they came out. They were both very expensive if i remember back. Back then i had loads of dosh at hand, unfortunately these days im poor