View Full Version : I'm thinking of some new speaker cable....
Now I have sorted out my interconnects, and my amps, I need to join the amps to the speakers with something that is as good as the MC5000 has proven to be.
I currently have the following cables:
QED Silver Anniversary - (Really not keen on this in a single wire config. but worked quite well when bi-amping).
Van damme 2.5mm
Van damme 6mm
Cable Talk 3.1 (the original dark blue stuff).
The amps were my biggest single HiFi expenditure to date, and I want to get the most out of them, so I am hoping that some of the guys that have played with speaker cables can recommend something.
I only need two 1m runs. so I am hoping that the recommendations won't be too expensive. Max budget is £100 per m, fully terminated, but they had better be good at that price!
I have some loan cables coming from Graham Slee - Spatia speaker cables, but forum rules will prevent me from talking about these.
So, what is your favourite speaker cable, and why?
It will be connecting my Proprius mono blocks to my Cyrus CLS70 (for now) and will be used when I eventually upgrade my speakers.
Stratmangler
06-09-2014, 17:14
I could send you a couple of metres of this.
£100 will more than cover the cost.
http://www.doncastercables.com/cables/4/54/Flexibles/PVC-Insulated---Sheathed-Flexible-Cords---Light-Duty/
:sofa:
At the lower end of your budget Van Damme is excellent but the best I've had in my system to date is Talk 3. I've no experience with anything more expensive than that and probably never will tbh...
I have some loan cables coming from Graham Slee - Spatia speaker cables, but forum rules will prevent me from talking about these.
Not so, daftee (unless Graham Slee asked you to review them on his behalf). Read the rules again, *properly* and you’ll see! ;)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?32381-New-ruling-posting-product-reviews
Marco.
brian2957
06-09-2014, 17:57
+1 for Cable Talk 3
As I asked Graham Slee (well, his loan scheme anyway) if I could borrow them, then I see I am free to comment.
At £192 for a 1m stereo set, they really are at the top end of what I am willing to pay.
It's a new set of 2m cables and the speaker links that I have been sent (come on Postie!). I am told that they will need a bit of time to "burn in" (I am still not a believer in this, but that is another story).
In the meantime, I'll get some talk 3 ordered up....
Ninanina
06-09-2014, 19:15
Kevin I can only recommend what I am currently using which are TQ Black speaker cables... I think they are within your budget
I have used loads of other cables and these are my current favourite
I've used NACA5, Chord Odyssey 2, Van Damme 2 x 4mm Hi-Fi, Home Made CAT 5 based cable.. and probably loads of others I can't remember and the TQ Black has beat them hands down... I am sure there is better cable but I havn't tried it so I can only recommend what I've tried
Hope that helps some :)
.. and probably loads of others I can't remember and the TQ Black has beat them hands down... I am sure there is better cable but I havn't tried it so I can only recommend what I've tried
:)
It would be great if we could really do a Which Magazine type test, like they do with washing machines or something, and rank all cables in order from bestest to worstest on a simple to understand, easy to read colour coded chart. But unlike the washing machines cables will perform differently depending on the attributes of the components they connect. Since no-one can at the moment tabulate all the variables then we are left with suck it and see being the only way. Of course you can't try every cable (although Bev is having a go at it ;) ) so you try a few that people recommend instead. Which is what they use. So I recommend Chord Odyssey Two :)
awkwardbydesign
06-09-2014, 19:50
Kevin I can only recommend what I am currently using which are TQ Black speaker cables... I think they are within your budget
I have used loads of other cables and these are my current favourite
I've used NACA5, Chord Odyssey 2, Van Damme 2 x 4mm Hi-Fi, Home Made CAT 5 based cable.. and probably loads of others I can't remember and the TQ Black has beat them hands down... I am sure there is better cable but I havn't tried it so I can only recommend what I've tried
Hope that helps some :)
TQ Ultra Black? Not compared the 2, but the Ultra was an eye opener. So was the price!
I have just been given some VD 6mm Blue and 6mm HiFi cable. The HiFi sounded horrid at first, but within half an hour had improved. I am using it now, it's a bit soft, and it may improve some more, don't really know, but it's OK. The Blue wasn't as bad initially, but is harsher than the HiFi. A friend has a cable burn-in thingy, and I'll see if 48 hours on that makes a difference. He says it will, but I will withhold judgement until I listen for myself.
BTW, plaited CAT 5 made my amp unstable. And some silver plated stranded cable I had was spitty.
Audio Al
06-09-2014, 19:57
:eek::eek::eek::eek:
Arrrrrr
God another cable thread , RUN for the hills :door:
Audio Al connects all his kit with straightened coat hangers.
Don't you, Al?
Audio Al
06-09-2014, 20:05
Audio Al connects all his kit with straightened coat hangers.
Don't you, Al?
Barbed wire ;)
walpurgis
06-09-2014, 20:09
Barbed wire ;)
Screened or not? :)
Ninanina
06-09-2014, 20:12
Screened or not? :)
You lot always make me giggle........ :D:D
Audio Al
06-09-2014, 20:38
No screening :D
brian2957
06-09-2014, 20:52
Plenty screaming though .
I have seen some Chord Signature within budget. I have also seen Supra Ply 3.4(?) being highly regarded.
The problem is that I cannot afford to buy too many cables to see if I like them in my system.
This is where the Spatia comes in nicely, as I can try it at home in my system.
Martyn Miles
06-09-2014, 21:12
Now I have sorted out my interconnects, and my amps, I need to join the amps to the speakers with something that is as good as the MC5000 has proven to be.
I currently have the following cables:
QED Silver Anniversary - (Really not keen on this in a single wire config. but worked quite well when bi-amping).
Van damme 2.5mm
Van damme 6mm
Cable Talk 3.1 (the original dark blue stuff).
The amps were my biggest single HiFi expenditure to date, and I want to get the most out of them, so I am hoping that some of the guys that have played with speaker cables can recommend something.
I only need two 1m runs. so I am hoping that the recommendations won't be too expensive. Max budget is £100 per m, fully terminated, but they had better be good at that price!
I have some loan cables coming from Graham Slee - Spatia speaker cables, but forum rules will prevent me from talking about these.
So, what is your favourite speaker cable, and why?
It will be connecting my Proprius mono blocks to my Cyrus CLS70 (for now) and will be used when I eventually upgrade my speakers.
My favourite speaker cable is QED 79 strand. It works. What else do you need ?
walpurgis
06-09-2014, 21:23
My favourite speaker cable is QED 79 strand. It works. What else do you need ?
I wasn't keen on it myself.
Better choice than 'Silver Anniversary' though!! :eek:
My favourite speaker cable is QED 79 strand. It works. What else do you need ?
Bell wire works too, but after spending about £1300 on amplification and £1000 on speakers, I want something half decent without taking the p***.
My recent activity with interconnects has proven that cable does make a difference, may be less so with speaker cable, and you could argue that any old bit of copper will do the job, but I no longer believe this. If I can get some speaker cable for £50 that sounds superb, that will do me nicely.
walpurgis
06-09-2014, 21:39
Rather inclined to try some of this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121381572598?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
The price seems pretty reasonable (this is unterminated). I've not tried Audioquest speaker cable, but I do have a couple of their interconnects that are good.
I've looked at reviews and they seem very favourable. Well liked by a couple of Klipsch users apparently. If any speaker is going to show up a cable's tendency towards coarseness, they should.
My favourite speaker cable is QED 79 strand. It works. What else do you need ?
Well as I said before it depends on the components it is connecting. It may be ideal in some set ups, it may be awful in others. It may be fine but sub-optimum compared to some other cable you have not tried. That is the trouble with cables.
I'm using some MIT stuff in my main system it seems quite good; took a while to bed in right enough. and some German stuff upstairs on my valve jobbie which I really like but cant remember what its called....Might ave got it from James but have forgotten....memory is getting worse.:lol:
walpurgis
06-09-2014, 22:41
Rather inclined to try some of this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121381572598?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
The price seems pretty reasonable (this is unterminated). I've not tried Audioquest speaker cable, but I do have a couple of their interconnects that are good.
I've looked at reviews and they seem very favourable. Well liked by a couple of Klipsch users apparently. If any speaker is going to show up a cable's tendency towards coarseness, they should.
Just bought six metres. Definitely not the dearest speaker cable I've tried, but looking online, there's not a bad word said about it. I shall report back!
Ninanina
06-09-2014, 23:15
Of course you can't try every cable (although Bev is having a go at it ;) )
Well Martin I've certainly tried a few.....and there are others that I just can't remember
If money was no object I would have TQ Ultra Blacks.... I did have a trial of a pair but at the time I could not justify the cost... but they really are SUPERB... ;)
walpurgis
06-09-2014, 23:19
Wondered when you'd turn up Bev.
You're very predictable. Normally about this time of night. :)
How's yer bike, been out on it today? Weather was OK.
I've probably got enough Rega FSC quattro lying around to send you a 1m stereo pair gratis if you'll reimburse the postage.
Given it costs around 4quid a metre and can be spilt from its lengths if 4 to make 2 stereo pairs this is no great loss.
It will give you something else to compare against.
PM me your address
Ninanina
06-09-2014, 23:33
Wondered when you'd turn up Bev.
You're very predictable. Normally about this time of night. :)
How's yer bike, been out on it today? Weather was OK.
Hi Geoff
Yep i'm a bit of a night owl..
Bike is lovely thanks....
Not been out today. But did do a bit on her... she now has a rather expensive pair of NGK Iridium spark plugs... apparently the little Honda likes these plugs so I thought I'd treat her...
Just been fettling her today and checking a few bits and pieces, air filter, chain lube etc.. just before I purchased her she had a new chain and sprocket set fitted so I will really look after the chain etc..
After trying various chain lubes over the years the best I found was Wurth's 'High Perf Dry Chain Lube', it's very clean and the chain won't be covered in that nasty oil that most use
As far as being predictable, I really hate that... i'll have to change my habits... :D
:D
walpurgis
06-09-2014, 23:49
Hi Geoff
Yep i'm a bit of a night owl..
Bike is lovely thanks....
Not been out today. But did do a bit on her... she now has a rather expensive pair of NGK Iridium spark plugs... apparently the little Honda likes these plugs so I thought I'd treat her...
Just been fettling her today and checking a few bits and pieces, air filter, chain lube etc.. just before I purchased her she had a new chain and sprocket set fitted so I will really look after the chain etc..
After trying various chain lubes over the years the best I found was Wurth's 'High Perf Dry Chain Lube', it's very clean and the chain won't be covered in that nasty oil that most use
As far as being predictable, I really hate that... i'll have to change my habits... :D
:D
You have habits. Dressing as nun eh? :D
Ninanina
06-09-2014, 23:55
You have habits. Dressing as nun eh? :D
Nice one......:eek:
walpurgis
06-09-2014, 23:57
I suppose that was a bit cheeky. :)
My brother is using Wireworld stream, and he has to be more sensitive to the cost of speaker cable as he has a 7.1 system. It is a just a few bucks a meter but sounds absolutely fine. He terminated with audioquest silver spades, but in any event according my notions you should keep in mind the terminations if going down the DIY route.
I've probably got enough Rega FSC quattro lying around to send you a 1m stereo pair gratis if you'll reimburse the postage.
Given it costs around 4quid a metre and can be spilt from its lengths if 4 to make 2 stereo pairs this is no great loss.
It will give you something else to compare against.
PM me your address
Thanks for the offer. You have a PM.
Rather inclined to try some of this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121381572598?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
The price seems pretty reasonable (this is unterminated). I've not tried Audioquest speaker cable, but I do have a couple of their interconnects that are good.
I've looked at reviews and they seem very favourable. Well liked by a couple of Klipsch users apparently. If any speaker is going to show up a cable's tendency towards coarseness, they should.
That looks interesting Geoff.
I'll be interested to hear your opinion of it.
Bell wire works too, but after spending about £1300 on amplification and £1000 on speakers, I want something half decent without taking the p***.
Van Damme 4 or 6mm - Studio Blue or Touring Black. I use the 4mm Tour Black to connect the bass of my speakers and have no issue with it (and the amps and speaker value exceeds £2300).
walpurgis
07-09-2014, 10:32
Thanks for the offer. You have a PM.
That looks interesting Geoff.
I'll be interested to hear your opinion of it.
Well the seller has only a limited quantity Kevin and I can't find it for sale anywhere else on the net. Anyone interested should buy now.
I'm not sure what the original retail price was, but made up terminated cables seem to have been in the hundreds, so could be a bargain.
awkwardbydesign
07-09-2014, 11:49
After trying various chain lubes over the years the best I found was Wurth's 'High Perf Dry Chain Lube', it's very clean and the chain won't be covered in that nasty oil that most use
I've used Profi dry lube for years. Used to get it from Hein Gericke, but online these days. And it smells of coconut. Which is nice. http://www.performancemotorcare.com/acatalog/Profi_Dry_Lube_400ml__1223.html
I bought some Type4 (each conductor made up of 2 twisted solid core pairs) I bought it at an audiojumble for peanuts (same colour sheath and type face as the one on ebay)
Having tried mains twin and earth years ago, I thought that this sounded just as flat as T&E. However it may be that the T&E and the AQ were not putting any spin on what was going through it. I bought some Cable Talk Talk 3 afterwards and that was far more to my liking.
A slight development.
I saw one of my neighbours today, and they handed me a package containing the Spatia cables which they took in for me.
I have plugged them in, and so far they are not massively different. I think I'll give them a few hours of "burn in" time to see if they change.
I am going to ask the Mrs to do a blind test for me between these and the VD 6mm, as they are terminated in the same way, and are easy to swap.
wee tee cee
07-09-2014, 16:39
I close couple my amps with speakers letting me run jumper length speaker cable.Its let me try numerous cables without breaking the bank. I have tried the different van dammes, they are good vfm. Talk 3/rhodium twist are good but didn't work well in my system. The TQ stuff I have tried and kept- blue/black and doubled up black. Both are excellent, all terminated with sewel deadbolts. I run TQ ultra black jumpers re-terminated at the spade end with deadbolts, its the best I have heard so far. I run ICs made up by Brian of this parish to great effect( synergy thing perhaps?).
Chain lube wise I settled on Scotoiler wet lube. Apply to a warm chain after a run to let it penetrate. If the chain is suffering from winter salt a quick clean with gt85 then scotoiler on the rollers and seals. Buy a big bottle and then fill a small bicycle chain lube bottle....much easier to use. I ride a lot in the rain and throughout winter and have found this superior to various waxes and the profi stuff-was sad to see hien gericke go belly up!!!!
Ninanina
07-09-2014, 19:02
I've used Profi dry lube for years. Used to get it from Hein Gericke, but online these days. And it smells of coconut. Which is nice. http://www.performancemotorcare.com/acatalog/Profi_Dry_Lube_400ml__1223.html
Thanks for the tip Richard... a bike that will smell of coconut yummy !!
Ninanina
07-09-2014, 19:08
Chain lube wise I settled on Scotoiler wet lube. Apply to a warm chain after a run to let it penetrate. If the chain is suffering from winter salt a quick clean with gt85 then scotoiler on the rollers and seals. Buy a big bottle and then fill a small bicycle chain lube bottle....much easier to use. I ride a lot in the rain and throughout winter and have found this superior to various waxes and the profi stuff-was sad to see hien gericke go belly up!!!!
Thanks Tony for your lube suggestion. This thread is now a kinda 'dual-thread'... speaker cable and lube... now that couldn't have happened before, could it ?? :D
As long as the oil does not spill into this thread too much, it won't be a problem. ;)
awkwardbydesign
07-09-2014, 20:09
As long as the oil does not spill into this thread too much, it won't be a problem. ;)
Especially if it's dry!
Thanks Tony for your lube suggestion. This thread is now a kinda 'dual-thread'... speaker cable and lube... now that couldn't have happened before, could it ?? :D
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/williams.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/williams.jpg.html)
Ninanina
07-09-2014, 22:11
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq61/gazjamster/williams.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/gazjamster/media/williams.jpg.html)
Love it Gary..... priceless... !! at last someone with a 'chuckle muscle'
wee tee cee
08-09-2014, 11:09
I refuse to go there.....
He's just seen the price of expensive speaker cable. :lol:
I'm quite impressed with the Graham Slee Spatia right now.
Bass has great punch and depth, the midrange sounds spot on, and the higher frequencies are all present and correct.
Just like my VD cable. The difference seems to be that the Spatia has opened up the soundstage/imaging compared to the VD. How can a different strip of copper do this?
I'm going to stick with it for a few more days and change back to the VD.
choirboy
10-09-2014, 10:25
Kevin,
I have a 3m pair of TQ Black ( I also have the bi-wire links if needed) and a pair of 3.5m LAT INTERNATIONAL SS-800 MK II Bi-Wire cables sitting here for sale if you're interested?
Just PM me for prices.
I only need 1m cables, so if your cables are terminated, they will be far too long.
Thanks for the offer though.
choirboy
10-09-2014, 13:32
Yeah they're terminated. Ok no problem.
TQ Ultra Black? Not compared the 2, but the Ultra was an eye opener. So was the price!
I have just been given some VD 6mm Blue and 6mm HiFi cable. The HiFi sounded horrid at first, but within half an hour had improved. I am using it now, it's a bit soft, and it may improve some more, don't really know, but it's OK. The Blue wasn't as bad initially, but is harsher than the HiFi. A friend has a cable burn-in thingy, and I'll see if 48 hours on that makes a difference. He says it will, but I will withhold judgement until I listen for myself.
BTW, plaited CAT 5 made my amp unstable. And some silver plated stranded cable I had was spitty.
I have been using TQ Ultra Black for two years. They are currently £260/m.
I recently changed speakers and reorganised things so that I wanted much shorter cables. For whatever reason, I purchased some solid-core copper cables (£17/m - total cost £107 - 4 strands, biwired). I have been using them for over a month and have done some A/B tests with the TQ Ultra Black, a bit of a pain given the copper cables are unterminated. Can I tell the difference? NO.
That is why I am not in a rush to spend silly money.
The Graham Slee Spatia is sounding good, with a better soundstage than the VD 6mm.
My understanding is that it is a hand finished cable, so most of the money you pay is in the cost of manufacture, plugs and over braid etc. the raw cable itself is quite cheap, as they advertise the wire for speaker rewire.
I have some talk 3 coming, and some Rega cable that Rich is posting me.
One of these, or the VD should be good enough.
Kevin,
I have a 3m pair of TQ Black ( I also have the bi-wire links if needed) and a pair of 3.5m LAT INTERNATIONAL SS-800 MK II Bi-Wire cables sitting here for sale if you're interested?
Just PM me for prices.
Michael, have sent you a pm
Steve
When I bought my Harbeth speakers from Hifi Dave he said he normally recommends Talk3 or TQ (Black - presumably). Possibly Talk3 for valves and TQ for solid state.
When I had a beefy solid state power amp the TQ UB were a big improvement in clarity and openness compared to Chord Odyssey, with valves solid copper does the same job at 7% of the price.
When I bought my Harbeth speakers from Hifi Dave he said he normally recommends Talk3 or TQ (Black - presumably). Possibly Talk3 for valves and TQ for solid state.
When I had a beefy solid state power amp the TQ UB were a big improvement in clarity and openness compared to Chord Odyssey, with valves solid copper does the same job at 7% of the price.
Err...why? The amplifier doesn't care what cable you use providing it doesn't make it go all wobbly and unstable and neither of those would. You can use both with valve or SS. I would add, that with ANY amplifier, solid copper would do it at 7% the cost. If the statements were however that cable A sounds better in the system with a valve amp, or that cable B sounds better in the system with a SS amp, then fair enough ;)
walpurgis
13-09-2014, 10:52
I'm sure there may be exceptions, but my experience is that decent speaker cables have given decent results regardless of what type of amp I'm using.
So, I have had some time to myself today, and more importantly, an empty house.
SO, in my mini cable "test" (as in a test to see if I like it) I had
QED Silver anniversary
Cable Talk 3
Cable Talk 3.1
Rega FSC Quattro
Van Damme 2.5mm tour
Van Damme 6mm Studio
Graham Slee Spatia.
All cables were used with Cardas copper jumpers.
To start off with, I tried the Cable Talk 3, which I stripped the ends and used them straight on the binding posts. This is a new cable, so will probably benefit from a bit of time.
However, first impressions were of excellent detail at the top end and a good mid range. I felt that the bass was a bit recessed. With this cable it was obvious that I was listening to a HiFi with standmount speakers.
At higher volumes, the music started to get a bit cluttered, so once found, I left the volume fixed to see what the others would do. This cable deserves a bit more time to see if the bass can become fuller.
Next, Cable Talk 3.1 (the old dark blue one)
I thought this would be the same as the Talk 3. How wrong could I be? This sounded really harsh in comparison. It's a cable that has been run in, but it just didn't work well, so after less than a track, the listening stopped.
This was replaced by the Rega FSC Quattro
I was really struggling to hear any differences between this and the Talk 3 for the high and midrange.
Where this was different (being second hand) was that the bass was fuller, and better defined.
Then I fitted the QED Silver Anniversary, just to see what it would be like with my new amps.
At the same volume level, it becomes very harsh and bright. Time to stop the record!
After I had listened to the other cables, I popped this back in and a quieter volumes, this cable has good detail and dynamics.
Bass weight is OK, but not the best. I don't feel that I could use this cable for a long listening session as I think it would become very tiring.
Van Damme 2.5mm
Quite neutral sounding with a nice balance to it. There seems to be no bass or treble bias, just an honest cable. Good detail and dynamics with the cable.
It does not major on bass, but this was a 10m run, rather than 1m runs like everything else. I don't want to cut it down yet!
Van Damme 6mm
Similar to the 2.5mm, but the bass just seemed to go lower.
Graham Slee Spatia
This has a nice balance to it, but the biggest difference is that the soundstage becomes more 3D.
It opens up much more, and does not become harsh when I turn the volume up further. There is fantastic resolution, and dynamics.
This is also the most expensive cable I listened to, and when putting the VD 6mm back in, I want to change to the Spatia.
It just has that something extra, that makes the music more realistic.
I'm going to see if I can get a loan of some TQ Black to see what all of the fuss is about, while I put some more hours on the talk 3.
If I had to choose a cable out of the list, than anything but the SA will do me at the moment, which is why I am shying away from the Spatia.
It's about £190 more than the Quattro and Talk 3. Is it worth it? Time will tell....
QED SA also seemed to lack dynamics for some reason, making everything more the same 'perceived' volume. VDH carbon hybrid interconnects could do this too, but they've changed a bit now so this comment probably won't apply.
Chord Odyssey should ONLY be used with rich or slightly thick-toned speakers. It sounds scraggy and harsh with almost anything else I found. Don't know why, but this impression was repeatable on many systems and listening environments. used with the now old Spendor S and SE speakers, it was an answer to a prayer, but since the latest series' of spendors are livelier, it may not work.
Please be aware that Talk (Audio) 3 is NOT the same as Cable Talk 3.1, despite Kevin Edwards being responsible for both. the current Talk 3 tonally is more like the old 4.1 (or fig8 Excel 4 they made for a short while before going under), since the insulation is related I think. The 3.1 was still a high quality 42 strand 2.5mm cable though, but did sound more 'trebly' for want of a better term, the 4.1 using the same copper, but sounding more neutral, if lacking grunt at the VERY bottom notes that only a heavier gauge can give.
Cagey, have you given up completely on NVA speaker cables? They work a treat outside of their systems too and as soon as I'm able (I'm in between jobs again :(), I'm buying my LS5 set! Just a thought as you could send 'em back if not happy.
I have not given up on the NVA products. I have nothing against them.
The only NVA product I have works well.
I tried the Talk 3 again last night, and VFM wise, it's hard to beat.
My only gripe is that it lacks a bit of low end grunt compared to the VD 6mm.
If I tried a 4mm cable, it could be a good compromise.
My other idea was to bi-wire with Talk 3 on treble, and VD 6mm studio on bass.
I'll try the config mentioned above tonight, as I have all of the cables to do this.
Have a listen to braided Cat5 e :)
My other idea was to bi-wire with Talk 3 on treble, and VD 6mm studio on bass.
I'll try the config mentioned above tonight, as I have all of the cables to do this.
As I don't have any Cat5 handy, I have the current Bi-wire config installed. Much to my surprise, it actually sounds pretty good right now. Is the search over? I doubt it. Am I ever happy? Briefly....
I am seriously tempted to try some Exposure speaker cable, as I am led to believe it is pretty good.
Seriously, I've been where you are.
Listen to some braided Cat5e :)
Seriously, I've been where you are.
Listen to some braided Cat5e :)
Hi Gary,
I know where you are coming from but you would be wise not to make blanket statements of this nature. Whilst CAT5 braided works for you and also for me for many years now, they are not the best option for all amplifiers, infact their high capacitance could cause certain solid state amps to break/blow up! Think Naim, Linn and NVA here just as examples.
We both use valve amps for which CAT5 cable works very well, but certainly not in all cases. Also, if you are going to advocate a design, it would be more helpful to point the punter in the direction from which you are coming from. So, for CAT5 speaker cable designs, look at http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html and http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_2_e.html
Greg
...its in my signature Greg :)
Didn't know about the high capacitance with Cat5, good info.
Err...why? The amplifier doesn't care what cable you use providing it doesn't make it go all wobbly and unstable and neither of those would. You can use both with valve or SS. I would add, that with ANY amplifier, solid copper would do it at 7% the cost. If the statements were however that cable A sounds better in the system with a valve amp, or that cable B sounds better in the system with a SS amp, then fair enough ;)
I must admit that I didn't ask Dave why he might have recommended both TQ and Talk3 given the difference in price. I've never tried solid copper in a SS amp (although my son uses BR Twist which is another bargain product). All I know is that the Harbeths sound truly wonderful with the solid copper cable, but then my system is aimed more at classical, jazz and vocals than heavy rock. At 15mm diameter, the cable itself is less obtrusive than TQ Ultra Black, which is handy.
I tried some cables from a bloke who wouldn't take no for an answer (Osborn Loudspeakers), think they are CAT5 and biwired, cost £140, and also sounded perfectly good. I noticed more of a difference when I has a SS amp, TQ UB were a big improvement on Chord Odyssey. Coming to the conclusion that there is a lot of foo about speaker cables.
I have to say I am nervous about using Cat5 cable.
It does not suit all amps, so I would need to check with the manufacturer before I tried it.
I am tempted to try Chord Signature (mk1) or VDH The Wind mk2.
Both just about within budget for the lengths I need.
walpurgis
17-09-2014, 08:49
Rather inclined to try some of this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121381572598?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
The price seems pretty reasonable (this is unterminated). I've not tried Audioquest speaker cable, but I do have a couple of their interconnects that are good.
I've looked at reviews and they seem very favourable. Well liked by a couple of Klipsch users apparently. If any speaker is going to show up a cable's tendency towards coarseness, they should.
This cable has arrived. Unfortunately I'm about to go on holiday for a while and won't have time to try it for a week or two. On return, I'll fit plugs and give it a whirl. I'm optimistic and will report back.
Beobloke
17-09-2014, 12:15
I have to say I am nervous about using Cat5 cable.
I must say, I've never heard of anyone advocating CAT5 cable for loudspeaker connection before, and the very idea of it throws me somewhat!
Firstly, as mentioned, its high capacitance could well cause problems for some amplifiers so is a very bad idea. Secondly, all the CAT5 cable I've ever seen looks suspiciously similar to old bell wire, which has long been a swear word in loudspeaker connection terms!
Ali Tait
17-09-2014, 12:40
Given that it is used with amps that are not upset by it, it can sound very good indeed.
I must say, I've never heard of anyone advocating CAT5 cable for loudspeaker connection before, and the very idea of it throws me somewhat!
Firstly, as mentioned, its high capacitance could well cause problems for some amplifiers so is a very bad idea. Secondly, all the CAT5 cable I've ever seen looks suspiciously similar to old bell wire, which has long been a swear word in loudspeaker connection terms!
Hi Adam, Yes, high capacitance is a problem for some amps as I have indicated. However, certain amps such as those that are valve based don't have a problem with this. In these cases it is anything other than a bad idea. No doubt with your commercial reviewers head on, you've not considered these alternatives. Using a CAT5 design is nothing like the original Bell wire options. Please click on the links in my previous post to understand where I and others are coming from. I am talking a six cable braid each cable containing eight individually insulated copper conductors. Multiplied by six to give 48 individually insulated conductors per speaker cable run. These can be divided in variations depending on speaker demand, so more for the bass and less for the treble if that meets your need, or simply divide with 24 wires per input and return. That becomes a pretty thick copper cable input regardless of what the cable is supplying.
so, my conclusion is, based on a foundation where I will never ever again be conned into buying or using a commercially produced Hi-Fi cable, what you can build for yourself will be cheap and ultimately give you the best performance. A few years back when Peter Comeau was launching WAD, and was demo'ing his speakers at the Bristol show, you visited the room. Peter turned up with cables priced at £2,500 a pair. He used my CD, TT and amp system to feed his speakers. On set up, the commercial cables sounded crap. When I introduced my CAT5 DIY options, sound became excellently balanced and presentable, and you heard that and at the time commented very positively!
Seriously, unless you explore the recipes on TNT, you'll probably not get an understanding on what this is all about, but I will say again in the hope of influencing others here, commercially produced cables are an absolute rip off. Never ever buy them. Learn how to build your own which might simply be stripping the insulation and hooking to the amp and speaker terminals. Obviously, more complicated options are open, but it's a way to go for starters and punters are fools if they don't explore this option. Then again, it's all up to them. If punters want to continue paying through the nose exorbitant prices for commercial products that cost a pittance to make, so be it. In my view, that is a sad outcome.
Hi Adam, Yes, high capacitance is a problem for some amps as I have indicated. However, certain amps such as those that are valve based don't have a problem with this. In these cases it is anything other than a bad idea. No doubt with your commercial reviewers head on, you've not considered these alternatives. Using a CAT5 design is nothing like the original Bell wire options. Please click on the links in my previous post to understand where I and others are coming from. I am talking a six cable braid each cable containing eight individually insulated copper conductors. Multiplied by six to give 48 individually insulated conductors per speaker cable run. These can be divided in variations depending on speaker demand, so more for the bass and less for the treble if that meets your need, or simply divide with 24 wires per input and return. That becomes a pretty thick copper cable input regardless of what the cable is supplying.
so, my conclusion is, based on a foundation where I will never ever again be conned into buying or using a commercially produced Hi-Fi cable, what you can build for yourself will be cheap and ultimately give you the best performance. A few years back when Peter Comeau was launching WAD, and was demo'ing his speakers at the Bristol show, you visited the room. Peter turned up with cables priced at £2,500 a pair. He used my CD, TT and amp system to feed his speakers. On set up, the commercial cables sounded crap. When I introduced my CAT5 DIY options, sound became excellently balanced and presentable, and you heard that and at the time commented very positively!
Seriously, unless you explore the recipes on TNT, you'll probably not get an understanding on what this is all about, but I will say again in the hope of influencing others here, commercially produced cables are an absolute rip off. Never ever buy them. Learn how to build your own which might simple be stripping the insulation and hooking to the amp and speaker terminals. Obviously, more complicated options are open, but it's a way to go for starters.
I can only agree.
I think I got ripped off on speaker cables. Won't say what they cost. I bought some CAT5 cables, 3m biwired for £140, which was probably mostly the plugs and labour cost. Work very well with my valve amp. Now using copper cables that cost £100.
Having looked at the specification for the Chord Signature cable, and having seen a video on youtube about finishing the cable, I noticed that it looks very much like Belden RG8U coax cable. So, I have ordered some RG8U to see how that performs. Hopefully it will be here by the weekend.
Beobloke
18-09-2014, 12:02
No doubt with your commercial reviewers head on, you've not considered these alternatives.
Er, no, actually I dismiss alternatives such as CAT5 with my "Electronic Engineer" head on. ;). Most people who know me know that I am fairly agnostic when it comes to cables and my requirements for speaker cables are as follows:
(1) Has the correct connectors on each end
(2) Long enough to reach between the required pieces of equipment
(3) Well made and sturdy enough to withstand repeated connection/disconnection for reviewing purposes
(4) Electrically fit for purpose in ALL situations.
CAT5 does not meet requirement number 4 so I wouldn't even bother with it. The idea that I might have to stop and think whether a cable I wish to use might damage an amplifier I'm testing is verging on laughable.
As to making my own cables and exploring different 'recipes' - been there; done that. Frankly, I have better things to do with my time, particularly when there are more than a handful of commercially-made items at sensible prices that do the job perfectly well.
awkwardbydesign
18-09-2014, 12:41
Hi Adam, Yes, high capacitance is a problem for some amps as I have indicated. However, certain amps such as those that are valve based don't have a problem with this. .
Er, no. My Velleman K4000 EL34 power amp became unstable using the TNT plaited CAT5 cables.
I noticed more of a difference when I has a SS amp, TQ UB were a big improvement on Chord Odyssey. Coming to the conclusion that there is a lot of foo about speaker cables.
if you're not using thicker toned speakers, ANYTHING with reasonable gauge is an improvement on Odyssey, and I know this stuff extremely well and sold and used it myself for a few years!
Dave,
Do you have experience of the Chord Signature cable?
Does "perfectly well" exist really though? ;)
Er, no, actually I dismiss alternatives such as CAT5 with my "Electronic Engineer" head on. ;). Most people who know me know that I am fairly agnostic when it comes to cables and my requirements for speaker cables are as follows:
(1) Has the correct connectors on each end
(2) Long enough to reach between the required pieces of equipment
(3) Well made and sturdy enough to withstand repeated connection/disconnection for reviewing purposes
(4) Electrically fit for purpose in ALL situations.
CAT5 does not meet requirement number 4 so I wouldn't even bother with it. The idea that I might have to stop and think whether a cable I wish to use might damage an amplifier I'm testing is verging on laughable.
As to making my own cables and exploring different 'recipes' - been there; done that. Frankly, I have better things to do with my time, particularly when there are more than a handful of commercially-made items at sensible prices that do the job perfectly well.
brian2957
18-09-2014, 17:10
Having looked at the specification for the Chord Signature cable, and having seen a video on youtube about finishing the cable, I noticed that it looks very much like Belden RG8U coax cable. So, I have ordered some RG8U to see how that performs. Hopefully it will be here by the weekend.
Got a link to the RG8U cable Kevin . I can only find RG6U .
I ordered mine from Farnell.fr
brian2957
18-09-2014, 17:56
Thanks Kevin . What makes you think it's RG8U rather than RG6U BTW .
Thanks Kevin . What makes you think it's RG8U rather than RG6U BTW .
This:
http://fr.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?CMP=i-ddd7-00001003&sku=1218665
Some here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CABLE-COAX-9913F7-PER-M-MPN-9913F7-BELDEN-/271527835622?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&hash=item3f3851f7e6
brian2957
18-09-2014, 18:09
OK . The French site you link to won't let me in and the UK site is minimum 100m lengths :rolleyes:
brian2957
18-09-2014, 18:11
Some here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CABLE-COAX-9913F7-PER-M-MPN-9913F7-BELDEN-/271527835622?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Suppl ies_ET&hash=item3f3851f7e6
That's the one , thanks Kevin :) Yes it does look suspiciously like the cable in the video .
Have a look at the number of conductors and overall diameter etc. ;)
The one on eBay does not seem to have the copper screen though, but why would you need a screen on a speaker cable?
brian2957
18-09-2014, 19:11
True . You don't see many screened speaker cables at all.
Oddly, I've encountered a number of screened speaker cables recently - still not a standard thing though (but then why would it be).
My search is over. :cool:
All I need to do now is terminate the cable properly.
I have spent the evening spinning tunes with the BELDEN 9913F7 (or RG-8U as it's also known) doing the duty between the amps and speakers.
It's cost me €40 to do this, as I only use 2 x 1m pairs and it is probably the best €40 I have ever spent on HiFi. The cable has so much depth and musicality that I just can't stop playing tunes.
I currently have it connected up with just bare copper going into the binding plugs at both amp and speaker end, but plan to fit Z plugs soon. I may also fit an over braid to tart it up a bit to keep the Mrs happy.
Even though she does not appreciate the finer points of HiFi, she asked what I had done to the system, and how much I had spent this time. When I told her €40, she didn't believe me! :doh:
I am a happy bunny, and I am looking forwards to the weekend now! I hope it rains....
http://youtu.be/RykPvYOVHaI
This looks very familiar.
nbaptista
20-09-2014, 14:36
But isn´t the Belden a coaxial cable?
Yes. And what does the Chord look like?
BilliumB
20-09-2014, 17:36
Did you just connect the inner core, simply leaving the screen floating?
BilliumB
20-09-2014, 17:58
I see that the 'pipemaster' solder tool used by plumbers is readily available on the net. What sort of soldering iron are you planning to use, or are you using screw tightened connectors?
A 50w Maplins temperature controlled soldering iron is more than up to the job.
I have already terminated one end with Z plugs. I am just waiting for another delivery before I can finish it off.
BilliumB
20-09-2014, 18:43
And did you connect just the inner core only?
Yes, almost exactly like the video. It's a pretty substantial inner core.
BilliumB
20-09-2014, 21:47
How would you say it sounds compared to the Van Damme 6mm - I'm currently using a 6m pair of these (the HiFi version)? Cheers. Bill
I have the VD 6mm studio version. I'm not much of a HiFi reviewer, but I'll have a go.
It seems to have more definition, even in the bass. It sounds less harsh, more musical as if some distortion has been removed , but the biggest difference seems to be a better, clearer soundstage. It's hard to describe the difference, but when I first put these cables in to my system, it gave me the "wow" factor. Everything seemed clearer, and was very well balanced. Cymbals, for example, sound incredibly real.
Brian (who discovered the MS Audio RCA plugs) has ordered some of this cable, so if you wait a bit, I hope he will post his impressions of it in this thread. I can't be sure that this is the exact cable used in the Chord Signature, but the spec is exactly the same. Have a look at some of the reviews for the Mk1 signature. You will see that this cable does the business. It was reviewed at £160/metre, and it still won awards. Mine has cost me about 1/10th of that. Being coaxial, it's really easy to prepare for termination, especially if you have a coax stripping tool. I have even found some 10mm aluminium HT lead separators to make it look like the Chord offering if you wanted to go this route.
Let's just say that since this was plugged in, my 6mm VD Studio cable has found it's way into the spares box. I have tried it again recently, but the Belden is now my preferred cable.
The Black Adder
21-09-2014, 08:00
the 6mm VD blue is 'THE BEST' speaker cable I've owned.... end of, full stop... :)
IMHO, this is better. :ner:
:eek:
The Black Adder
21-09-2014, 09:19
yeah but I've got a bigger bag of crisps than you and my dad is a fireman. ;)
It's 10 AWG, so the difference in copper in marginal. It just seems to be clearer and more defined.
The VD 6mm is not too shabby, and realistically we are not talking massive differences, just subtle ones which are allowing me to enjoy my music more without having to spend silly money on a bit of copper.
The Black Adder
21-09-2014, 14:01
I agree... it's whatever works for you, Kevin. I will also be giving it a shot, might as well... The only thing that stops me trying expensive cables these days is the fact that they are expensive... The differences between is simply not worth the outlay. Marketing for me now simply gets ignored as it's usually utter pish.
But, the only other cable I really do like is the Van Den Hul The Wind MKII Hybrid... that is lovely stuff but expensive.
I have just done a bit of a back comparison between the VD and the Belden.
My preference is still the Belden RG-8U. It seems to have a much wider sound stage. It's just more open and expansive. It sounds more like you are listening to a real performance than a recording.
As mentioned earlier, it's also very tonally balanced across the spectrum, it just sounds so right in my system.
Have you finished your crisps yet? ;)
But, the only other cable I really do like is the Van Den Hul The Wind MKII Hybrid... that is lovely stuff but expensive.
That was one of the other options I was considering. It was just a bit more expensive than what I have ended up with,.
The Black Adder
21-09-2014, 14:19
Munch, Munch, Munch! :)
I use VDH Wind MKII Non my crossover cables (short runs) and it's lovely stuff. I've had it for years after Marco recommended it for use with Tannoys along side the internal VDH cabling to the driver which is also superb stuff and cheap. :)
Ninanina
21-09-2014, 18:05
Kevin... to save me reading all through this long thread can you list the cables you tried? thanks ;)
I have been trying to stay at the budget end of the market.
QED Silver Anniversary - (Really not keen on this in a single wire config. but worked quite well when bi-amping/wiring).
Van damme 2.5mm
Van damme 6mm
Cable Talk 3.1 (the original dark blue stuff).
Talk 3
Rega FSC Quattro
Graham Slee Spatia (Didn't work well due to what I believe was an impedance issue in my system).
Belden 9913F7 (RG-8U)
Not a massive list.
Ninanina
21-09-2014, 19:08
I have been trying to stay at the budget end of the market.
QED Silver Anniversary - (Really not keen on this in a single wire config. but worked quite well when bi-amping/wiring).
Van damme 2.5mm
Van damme 6mm
Cable Talk 3.1 (the original dark blue stuff).
Talk 3
Rega FSC Quattro
Graham Slee Spatia (Didn't work well due to what I believe was an impedance issue in my system).
Belden 9913F7 (RG-8U)
Not a massive list.
So was the Belden 9913F7 (RG-8U) the winner for you Kevin ?
At the moment, yes. It sounds great in my system. Although it is probably not exactly the correct cable that Chord uses, at £11/m, it's only cost me £22 to wire up my speakers.
I may have one other cable coming soon, but more on that if the manufacturer agrees to my request.
Ninanina
21-09-2014, 19:13
One other thing Kevin can you tell me how much you spent on this trial exercise in total ?
Spent on top of what I already had?
£22 + p+p for the Belden (£27)
£8 + p&p for the talk (£12)
£6 for the Rega
€10 P&P for the Spatia.
Hardly expensive.
Chord Signature is £160/m, so lets look at it a different way, how much did I save? ;)
PaulStewart
21-09-2014, 19:46
As I will detail elsewhere, we just did a full rewire on the studio/edit suites to facilitate the production of my radio show. The upshot is that the whole studio is now cabled in Van Damme cables..... Except the small passive monitors in edit one and the larger passives in edit two. We tried Various Van Damme's the Blue in various sizes, and the shotgun stuff and it was all good, with me slightly erring favour of the blue and others the shotgun. But when we swopped back to the Black Rhodium twist, supplied by MCRU at a very good price, it was the most detailed and dynamic. For information both sets of passives are driven by Yamaha P2075s.
At home on the main system, I still use Silversound for the speakers as I'm yet to sound anything this transparent, it lets the full beguiling, lyrical sound of the system reach the speakers. However the current equivalent is probably outside Kevin's budget
BilliumB
21-09-2014, 20:39
Are you happy with the Belden, or do you feel you'll continue searching?
Ninanina
21-09-2014, 23:17
Spent on top of what I already had?
£22 + p+p for the Belden (£27)
£8 + p&p for the talk (£12)
£6 for the Rega
€10 P&P for the Spatia.
Hardly expensive.
Chord Signature is £160/m, so lets look at it a different way, how much did I save? ;)
I make that £50...... that is an absolute bargain to find a cable that suits you, and your system...!!
Just ignore the Chord cable... I had a rather expensive Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cable that to be honest was very bad indeed...
Hope that helps some !!
Are you happy with the Belden, or do you feel you'll continue searching?
There is one other cable coming (hopefully), but I think I will be sticking with the Belden.
I am still tempted to try the VDH The Wind Mk2 as well though. To do this I would need to find a loan set. I am not buying it to try, as it is relatively expensive.
icehockeyboy
22-09-2014, 12:05
Fwiw, I had TQ Black, and now use Van Damme 6mm Blue.
Make from that whatever you will. :)
Fwiw, I had TQ Black, and now use Van Damme 6mm Blue.
Make from that whatever you will. :)
That tells me that TQ black may not work in all systems.
It also tells me that you have not tried the Belden coaxial cable.;)
I don't know if it will work in all systems, but it's certainly putting my VD 6mm blue to shame.
I guess that speaker cable is one of those things where one cable won't suit everybody.
The Black Adder
22-09-2014, 14:19
I guess that speaker cable is one of those things where one cable won't suit everybody.
bang on :)
Wakefield Turntables
22-09-2014, 15:12
the 6mm VD blue is 'THE BEST' speaker cable I've owned.... end of, full stop... :)
Joe, why did you plump for 6mm, dont they do greater diameters?
No, they don't - but 6mm is massive. I'm using 4mm Van Damme black tour to my bass drivers and it's pretty massive stuff.
Wakefield Turntables
22-09-2014, 22:13
DAMM YOU ALL! I just bought 6M of 6mm van damme blue for my Tannoys, £45 later and a few single malts lets hope its a good buy!
DAMM YOU ALL! I just bought 6M of 6mm van damme blue for my Tannoys, £45 later and a few single malts lets hope its a good buy!
I can't see what should be wrong with it: lower loop resistance, lower inductance. What's not to like?
The clos d in soundstage compared to other cables? :eyebrows:
I think I have another convert. ;)
brian2957
23-09-2014, 16:29
Yup , thanks to Kevin I made a set of these cables up this morning and they're now in my system burning in :sofa::uhho:
I was using Cable Talk 3 and the Belden coax just blows them into the weeds . Just more of everything including more detail. I will post more in a few days when the cables have settled in .
Wakefield Turntables
23-09-2014, 20:13
I can't see what should be wrong with it: lower loop resistance, lower inductance. What's not to like?
I was looking for something better than the black Rhodium twist Im using with my MG's at the mo'. I may even get some of the belden coax and have a play with that.
brian2957
23-09-2014, 20:19
The Belden coax cable is fantastic VFM Andrew . Sounds excellent and getting better with use .
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1218665&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-SKU-MDC&mckv=sjfjMwFdF|pcrid|19875691328|kword|%2Bbelden%2 0%2B9913f7|match|b|plid|&gclid=CNrhhPGe7sACFSuWtAodOSEATQ
It's helping me rediscover my music collection, but it's not helping me sleep!
For me, it's like I have done a major upgrade. As Brian says, there is just more if everything. It's really letting my speakers breathe. For the first time in over 10 years, they are actually performing well.
If this was the cable that Chord used, it retailed at £160/m. You can get it from £9/m from Farnell. What is there not to like about that? In my experience, it also blows the 6mm VD blue into the weeds as well, but YMMV.
brian2957
23-09-2014, 20:30
Check this link Kevin http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1218665&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-SKU-MDC&mckv=sjfjMwFdF|pcrid|19875691328|kword|%2Bbelden%2 0%2B9913f7|match|b|plid|&gclid=CNrhhPGe7sACFSuWtAodOSEATQ
This is where I got mine .
Wakefield Turntables
24-09-2014, 11:55
My 6mm van damme blue studio version arrived today :D Will try it out and then maybe the coax.
brian2957
24-09-2014, 12:06
:popcorn: Keep us posted Andrew cheers .
Just ignore the Chord cable... I had a rather expensive Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cable that to be honest was very bad indeed...
!!
I use Chord Odyssey 2 and find it to be excellent.
Which just shows the dangers of trying to classify cables on some sort of 'league table' that goes from best at the top to worst at the bottom. It aint that simple folks! - much as we might wish that it were.
brian2957
24-09-2014, 12:08
Good post Martin and so true . :)
Now Brian will tell you, I'm rather fond of Cable Talk Talk 3 as it sounds superior to other cables I've had installed in the system and so to hear that the Belden stuff is a significant improvement has set my ears a-twitching :)
In my system, the Belden knocked the Talk 3 for six....
Wakefield Turntables
24-09-2014, 14:44
:popcorn: Keep us posted Andrew cheers .
Ok they are going in tonight, I have stripped them back and will simply use bare wire, no fancy connectors here!
Ali Tait
24-09-2014, 15:02
Re the Belden, are you chaps using two runs per channel, like a figure of 8 cable?
Yes, two runs of cable per speaker.
Nothing like a fig. 8 as my cables are spaced apart as much as possible.
I only have 1m runs to deal with.
brian2957
24-09-2014, 15:12
Me too 2 x 2m cables per speaker with the shield disconnected at both ends .
Ali Tait
24-09-2014, 15:15
Cheers.
brian2957
24-09-2014, 15:40
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=1218665&CMP=KNC-GUK-FUK-GEN-SKU-MDC&mckv=sjfjMwFdF|pcrid|19875691328|kword|%2Bbelden%2 0%2B9913f7|match|b|plid|&gclid=CNrhhPGe7sACFSuWtAodOSEATQ
I think this is the cheapest Ali .
Wakefield Turntables
24-09-2014, 17:57
Van Damme 6mm Blue Studio Edition fitted, bloody hell these cables are very chunky. I've only just managed to get them into the back of my Radford and external RFC X-O's! I think I might need some banana plugs or spades :(
The Belden is slightly smaller. ;)
I have just finished over-braiding my cables so that they look slightly less DIY. I even went as far as to put a small band of heat shrink underneath the braid so that I could identify one end from the other for when someone tells me they sound better in a certain direction.
What I could really do with is some glue lined 3:1 heat shrink to do a tidy Job.
I still can't get over how good these sound. I am hearing detail I never knew was there before. There is such pace, detail, depth and control in the bass that I am no longer thinking of replacing my speakers. The midrange is beguiling. There is such clarity and separation that it is easy to pick out any instrument you like. The soundstage is wide open, and there seems to be so much space around the instruments that it sounds like I have had a major upgrade in my system. The treble is sweet and detailed, and hardly ever gets harsh, unless you have a bad recording.
All this from my lowly source components. A Pioneer PD-S703, running through an Arcam Alpha 8R amp as a pre-amp, which feeds my wonderful Graham Slee Proprius. Everything is connected up with the Klotz MC5000 cables. I have simply never heard my system sound so good.
The finishing touches to the cables will be the glue lined heat shrink, and a couple of silver aluminium HT lead clamps to act as cable separators. After that, it's time to start thinking about a DAC or a proper pre-amp.
This is getting very interesting indeed, when the Skibo's sell I shall invest in some methinks :)
BilliumB
24-09-2014, 19:25
Am I right in assuming you are using the 7 strand version of the Belden cable? Farnell seem to offer the 7 strand by the metre and the more expensive 19 strand by the 30m roll (it also has the Belden 9913F7 number).
Yes, it's the 7 strand cable.
brian2957
24-09-2014, 21:33
The Belden is slightly smaller. ;)
I have just finished over-braiding my cables so that they look slightly less DIY. I even went as far as to put a small band of heat shrink underneath the braid so that I could identify one end from the other for when someone tells me they sound better in a certain direction.
What I could really do with is some glue lined 3:1 heat shrink to do a tidy Job.
I still can't get over how good these sound. I am hearing detail I never knew was there before. There is such pace, detail, depth and control in the bass that I am no longer thinking of replacing my speakers. The midrange is beguiling. There is such clarity and separation that it is easy to pick out any instrument you like. The soundstage is wide open, and there seems to be so much space around the instruments that it sounds like I have had a major upgrade in my system. The treble is sweet and detailed, and hardly ever gets harsh, unless you have a bad recording.
All this from my lowly source components. A Pioneer PD-S703, running through an Arcam Alpha 8R amp as a pre-amp, which feeds my wonderful Graham Slee Proprius. Everything is connected up with the Klotz MC5000 cables. I have simply never heard my system sound so good.
The finishing touches to the cables will be the glue lined heat shrink, and a couple of silver aluminium HT lead clamps to act as cable separators. After that, it's time to start thinking about a DAC or a proper pre-amp.
I couldn't have put it better myself Kevin . This cable is very good indeed . Tracks on albums which were previously unlisteneable now make sense and sound very good. This cable has been a bit of a find again so well done mate . My system is also wired up completely with Klotz MC5000 and the Belden coax and it's the best sounds I've ever had .
And the best bit is, total spend on these cables will be less than £50 for me - by the time I have finished tarting them up.
Looking forward to you bringing your set over Brian for me to hear.
Maybe one for the board meeting?
Ali Tait
25-09-2014, 17:46
Good call, like to hear these too. Only problem is, I'd need 8 three metre lengths!
Wakefield Turntables
25-09-2014, 18:15
:popcorn: Keep us posted Andrew cheers .
Brian,
The new VanDamme blue has been in 2 days and is already a massive improvement over the black rhodium twist that I was using. I've always said my big Tannoy's cant do complex prog and really intricate heavy metal, and they still can't!!! But, they do it a lot better than they used to!!!! I'm finding that jazz, classical, are sounding sublime and the soundstage seems a lot more cohesive. I honestly cant complain for <£50. I'm also finding the Tannoys have improved with the hidden microdetails in recordings. The VannDamme has made a big improvement and my valve setup is beginning to catch up my reference SS system. :D I may well try the Belden at some point next week and maybe get an even bigger jump in the sonic delights of my Tannoys.
Good call, like to hear these too. Only problem is, I'd need 8 three metre lengths!
The joys of bi-amping?
Have a listen to Brian's cables first, as you may decide it's really worth it.
brian2957
25-09-2014, 18:25
Good call, like to hear these too. Only problem is, I'd need 8 three metre lengths!
Is that per side Ali :eek:
Ali Tait
25-09-2014, 18:30
The joys of running an active system, four runs for each channel.
Daft question, but if it is an active system, why do you need speaker cable?
My amps sit on the end of a 2m and 5m run of Klotz MC5000 coming from my "pre-amp".
I just use 1m of cable to connect the speaker to the amp.
Wakefield Turntables
25-09-2014, 18:44
Daft question, but if it is an active system, why do you need speaker cable?
My amps sit on the end of a 2m and 5m run of Klotz MC5000 coming from my "pre-amp".
I just use 1m of cable to connect the speaker to the amp.
Yeah you should only need a set of IC's. Thats all I have in my fully active SS system. :scratch:
Ali Tait
25-09-2014, 18:53
Yep, that would work if I used four monoblocks, but seeing as I can't cut the two stereo amps in half, I need to use 3m cable runs.
brian2957
25-09-2014, 19:59
Brian,
The new VanDamme blue has been in 2 days and is already a massive improvement over the black rhodium twist that I was using. I've always said my big Tannoy's cant do complex prog and really intricate heavy metal, and they still can't!!! But, they do it a lot better than they used to!!!! I'm finding that jazz, classical, are sounding sublime and the soundstage seems a lot more cohesive. I honestly cant complain for <£50. I'm also finding the Tannoys have improved with the hidden microdetails in recordings. The VannDamme has made a big improvement and my valve setup is beginning to catch up my reference SS system. :D I may well try the Belden at some point next week and maybe get an even bigger jump in the sonic delights of my Tannoys.
Thanks Andrew very interesting . It's always very satisfying when you get a nice upgrade for a reasonable amount of money :)
Yep, that would work if I used four monoblocks, but seeing as I can't cut the two stereo amps in half, I need to use 3m cable runs.
I could lend you my chainsaw Ali.... :sofa: :D
Ali Tait
25-09-2014, 20:30
Cheers mate!
Wakefield Turntables
25-09-2014, 21:07
Thought this might be of some use to Van Damme cable users
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ_2CdWr-sI
Yep, that would work if I used four monoblocks, but seeing as I can't cut the two stereo amps in half, I need to use 3m cable runs.
To help my understanding, what you actually have is a traditional system?
Stereo amps feeding speakers via speaker cable, rather than active speakers where the amps are built in?
What speaker cable are you currently using?
Ali Tait
26-09-2014, 05:18
Almost correct, it is an active system, but using two different stereo amps, one on 200hz and below duties, the other covering 200hz and up. These are fed from a miniDSP active crossover unit. No crossover on the baffles.
Sovereign
26-09-2014, 09:45
Ali,
are you going to try the Beldin cable? If your still using TQ cables it would be good to hear your thoughts on the Beldins.
Ali Tait
26-09-2014, 14:07
I may, however it would be a few quid for a shot in the dark!
Could just try on the mid/treble, still four runs though..
Wait until you can hear Brian's cables. ;)
If somebody wants to send me some TQ Black, I'll tell you which I prefer. :ner:
Belden ordered on Tuesday, at home today and plugged.
I'll probably need some serious listening before I can make an opinion (my current cables are Belden too coming from Blue Jean Cables). So far, I think that the coaxial brings more weight to music but not necessarily an additional clarity. Maybe a better bass extension too.
Do you have the Belden 5T00UP 10 AWG based Blue Jeans Speaker Cable?
As it's a 10AWG based cable, I would expect the differences to be subtle, but one that I noticed immediately was the bass extension/clarity.
You did use two runs of RG-8/U per speaker?
Belden ordered on Tuesday, at home today and plugged.
I'll probably need some serious listening before I can make an opinion (my current cables are Belden too coming from Blue Jean Cables). So far, I think that the coaxial brings more weight to music but not necessarily an additional clarity. Maybe a better bass extension too.
Any thoughts on this Didier?
BilliumB
30-09-2014, 23:41
I notice that in the Chord video (post #92) it's clearly stated that the direction in which the Signature cable is used is "critical" to the quality of the sound from the cable. So, I have a couple of questions.
Have you noticed any sound quality differences due to cable direction with the Belden version?
Do you run the pair of cables from the amp to a single speaker both in the same 'cable direction' ie in parallel, or are they run in an 'out and return loop', with the cable 'direction' running from the amp (red terminal) to the speaker and back to the amp (black terminal) again?
Cheers. Bill
I have both cables going in the same direction, so that the text on the jacket reads from the amp to the speaker.
I am not a believer in the theory that turning it round will change the sound. It's a piece of copper and the screen is not used. If you try the different directions, please let me know if you notice a difference.
brian2957
01-10-2014, 07:37
That's exactly the way I use it too and it sounds excellent . I haven't had the inclination to turn it round either . Too busy listening to the music :)
BilliumB
01-10-2014, 07:49
I've not got any yet - will need 24m and the Farnell website says they only have 22m in stock.
As to the directionality of the cable, on the video at your post #92 (around minute 6:50) Nigel Finn the Chord Technical Director says that "... the Signature speaker cable sounds distinctly better in one direction than it does the other and it is absolutely critical that customers fit this cable in the right direction ..."
It might be worth some experimentation!
Cheers. Bill
brian2957
01-10-2014, 07:59
I agree Bill and I probably will try this at some point . I usually do things like this when I think my system doesn't sound quite right . So maybe a while before I go down that particular route .
I'll try it tonight and report back. It won't take long to swap my cables.
24m? That's quite a leap of faith if you don't like it, and getting close to be cheaper to ordering a reel of the stuff?
BilliumB
01-10-2014, 08:37
So Brian, are you finding that the Belden cable makes a very significant difference?
BilliumB
01-10-2014, 08:52
Keith, that will be really interesting. As to the price of cable I need 6m from amp to speakers, so 24m in total. When I looked at the Farnell website, I couldn't find the 7 core Belden on a 30.5m roll, only the 19 core at £156.76 which works out at over £5 per metre, whereas the 7 core is available cut to length at £4.36 per metre. The 19 core would probably sound different as well. Certainly the cable in the video looks to have something closer to 7 cores.
brian2957
01-10-2014, 09:29
So Brian, are you finding that the Belden cable makes a very s
ignificant difference?
There's a strong possibility they are the best I've had in my system Bill and I've had a few .
I have just tried it the other way round. It's marginal, but it seemed very slightly less focused.
This may of course just be expectation bias setting in, so try it and see....?
BilliumB
01-10-2014, 16:30
Have you tried running the cables to each speaker in a 'loop' configuration - so in effect you turn just one in each speaker cable pair around so that each pair has one cable running each way. You will then of course have to try these 'opposed' sets of cables in both directions to see if there is an effect! Cheers. Bill
No, and seeing that they didn't change much the other way round, and are sounding good back in the original configuration, I really can't be bothered to find out.:eek:
LittleTone
07-10-2014, 22:47
Hi guys,
Interesting thread.
As I'm currently runnning with Talk 3, comments on here suggest that the Belden cable is a real improvement. Anyone like to
divulge their thoughts when they compared them.
PLEASE take great care in making the end connections, as messing this up will defeat what you're after ;)
I thought that Brian and Myself already had?
Basically, more of everything - deeper bass extension, clarity and soundstage.
LittleTone
08-10-2014, 10:05
Thanks for your comments guys; look like I need to invest in some Belden cable.
Dave ...... Could you please elaborate and advise. I would have gone for screw on banana plugs as I already have them.
Following on from Dave's comments, here is what I did to terminate my cables.
I prepared the ends using a coax cable stripper, similar to the ones used for TV aeriel cables.
I then trimmed the tinned copper shield back to the point where the outer insulation was cut.
This left the centre cores proud of the insulation/foil screen. Over this I fitted some heatshrink to ensure that there would be no contact between the centre core and either of the shields.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5602/15350091520_c583060652_z_d.jpg
The centre core was then soldered into a Z-plug, which was then partially heatshrunk.
I echo the request for more information on the end connections.
I'm quite cack-handed/incapable when it comes to DIY stuff, so whilst I'm really interested in this stuff, I'm worried about not getting the best from it. Kevin's description of what he did is way beyond my abilities. But, putting banana plugs on sounds like something I could do.
The Barbarian
14-10-2014, 18:01
I did an A/B comparison between my Rhodium LOK Banana Plugs & just bare wire, could not hear a single bit of difference.
Did you do it via ABX blind testing? ;)
Marco.
brian2957
14-10-2014, 18:28
I echo the request for more information on the end connections.
I'm quite cack-handed/incapable when it comes to DIY stuff, so whilst I'm really interested in this stuff, I'm worried about not getting the best from it. Kevin's description of what he did is way beyond my abilities. But, putting banana plugs on sounds like something I could do.
Peter , get yourself some of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOSO-8-X-Gold-Plated-Screw-Banana-Plug-Connector-4mm-Speaker-Wire-Cable-H8-/200795413525?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cable_Termin ations&hash=item2ec056dc15
and a good fitting screwdriver and give them a good tighten . I prefer a good solid screw fixing rather than soldering .
Don't cover up the screwheads and give them a check every 6 months or so . Job done :)
Brilliant. Thanks. I shall store that away for when I get my system set up again. I will be in need of more interconnects (and, yes, I have taken note of yours!) and started thinking about other things I could do to improve things - speaker cable was one and the Belden cable sounds interesting. Cool. Lots of stuff to get on with.
Well, I can now have an opinion on the Belden.
It was not easy to make one before because my change of amps. Now the Allnic has been in my place for a full week. In spite of the usual opinion on multi-strand cables and their bad match with SET amplifiers, I must admit that the Belden is better than my previous 5000UTp and Neotech 3003.
Wide bandwith, nice highs and as powerful as possible bass on 90db speakers and 10w.
Good buy, so.
Peter , get yourself some of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOSO-8-X-Gold-Plated-Screw-Banana-Plug-Connector-4mm-Speaker-Wire-Cable-H8-/200795413525?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cable_Termin ations&hash=item2ec056dc15
and a good fitting screwdriver and give them a good tighten . I prefer a good solid screw fixing rather than soldering .
Don't cover up the screwheads and give them a check every 6 months or so . Job done :)
are these banana plugs broad enough for the Belden?
Peter , get yourself some of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOSO-8-X-Gold-Plated-Screw-Banana-Plug-Connector-4mm-Speaker-Wire-Cable-H8-/200795413525?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cable_Termin ations&hash=item2ec056dc15
and a good fitting screwdriver and give them a good tighten . I prefer a good solid screw fixing rather than soldering .
Don't cover up the screwheads and give them a check every 6 months or so . Job done :)
Just a word of caution regarding these Voso plugs: I terminated my Sharkwire cables with these, which is not a chunky cable, and after a couple of months the sprung section failed and came away from the shank securing it to the plug. This surprised me because during this period I had only unplugged them the once so excessive use wasn't a factor...
brian2957
14-10-2014, 20:11
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TALK-CABLES-Z-Banana-Plugs-pair-/251138446661?pt=US_Audio_Cable_Plugs_Jacks&hash=item3a79049545
These are the ones I use , but they're very expensive . The VOSO plugs should do the trick . At least they're cheap and easy to replace if they fail.
are these banana plugs broad enough for the Belden?
They look to be pretty much identical to the Nakamichi ones I use.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34475-Weighty-Speaker-Cable-for-Rega-RS1-Advice-Very-Much-Welcomed!/page4 ....post 38 for eg.
Mark Grant
14-10-2014, 20:13
Peter , get yourself some of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOSO-8-X-Gold-Plated-Screw-Banana-Plug-Connector-4mm-Speaker-Wire-Cable-H8-/200795413525?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cable_Termin ations&hash=item2ec056dc15
and a good fitting screwdriver and give them a good tighten . I prefer a good solid screw fixing rather than soldering .
Don't cover up the screwheads and give them a check every 6 months or so . Job done :)
The picture says Digital :)
There are probably better makes with screws on ebay but will cost a little bit more.
Deltron do some sturdy ones without the springy bit that works loose.
brian2957
14-10-2014, 20:14
Thanks for the information Mark .:)
Thanks, also. The general principle of using banana plugs, and the general type, is helpful.
BilliumB
14-11-2014, 15:44
How are you guys finding the Belden speaker cable now you've been using it for a few weeks?
Cheers. Bill
I'm still happy with it.
Like any cable, it's not for every system.
Mr Kipling
15-11-2014, 23:19
I use bell wire, for my bell-end.
I have noticed,however, the top-end does tend to ring a bit.
I tried mains cable, but it hertz me to say it's not in current use.
What would be the advantage of cross-connecting the speaker cables as described in this article?http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/Belden-89259-Speaker-Cables/
awkwardbydesign
06-12-2014, 08:32
What would be the advantage of cross-connecting the speaker cables as described in this article?http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/Belden-89259-Speaker-Cables/
Low inductance, and combining the (claimed) advantages of solid core and stranded cables. http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ubyte2e.html BTW, I agree with TNT's claim of good midrange with solid core. My old Vecteur CV-30 is very natural sounding.
A change in amplification and speakers means I need to revisit this thread.
I will be going from a KIN to my Frugels. Steve at Electric Beach rates solid core cables with these speakers, so I am thinking of trying to make a set of the TNT U-BYTE cables out of some low loss sat cable, but without the flexible lead out wires. I just need to find a decent base cable available locally, but it should work out quite cheap to do.
wee tee cee
04-11-2015, 11:06
The best match I found for the Frugels was TQ Black. I preferred it to wiring directly as Steve had left direct links to enable me to close couple the amps.
My son prefers TQ Blue as its a bit softer to tame his slightly bright DAC.
any update on this thread? have users gone on to something better i wonder?
I'll be moving from my Cat5 to some DH Labs stuff.
icehockeyboy
31-05-2016, 12:13
any update on this thread? have users gone on to something better i wonder?
I've gone from TQ Black, to VD Blue 6mm, to Cable Talk 3.1.
Silly low price, same great quality.
Got talk 3 and 3.1. Think i prefer the older 3
I'll be moving from my Cat5 to some DH Labs stuff.
Scratch that, bagged some TQ Ultra Black...flippin' Nora!
No TQ fanboy here, preferred the Cable Talk 3 to the Black and thought my previous Cat5 stuff bettered them both.
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