EMITAPE - how to play it?

[TobesEtc]

Slightly off-topic for this forum/group - but I think someone here will know the answer - what type of tape is this (see picture) and how do I play it or get it converted so I can hear the recording?

Back-story: I was helping my Mum clean out some of Dad's old cupboards (he died a few years ago) and we discovered these two tapes. They date from the mid-late 1950's and were recorded while he was on military service in Cyprus during the islands troubled period. The labels say they are him and some of his army-friends doing a recording to send home. My Mum & I have never heard them and I for one would love to see if it is possible.

Any advice you can give me is greatly appreciated! Thank you....

[Firebottle]

What you need is an R to R, or reel to reel tape machine . There are a few folks on here who love them, be good if one of them were near you :)

:cool: Alan

[The Barbarian]

It's standard 1/4'' Open Reel tape but since it was recorded in the 50's it's gonna be mono.You can get a friend to transfer it to CD-r or there companies that specialise in transfer as they would transfering Video to DVD-r.

[spendorman]

Blimey, I'm not too far, my Akai 4000DS2 has not been used for about 20 years, not sure if it works. It has only 3 3/4 IPS and 7 1/2 IPS and it is Stereo. Those tapes as Andr'e say are likely to be Mono.

Send me a PM.

PS, I think I remember that EMItape was horrible for shedding.

[Idlewithnodrive]

What a fantastic story; a really worthy cause.

I am sure somebody will be able to help as there are a few tapeheads on here :)

[Stratmangler]

PS, I think I remember that EMItape was horrible for shedding.

I thought that the issue of tape shedding was primarily an issue with Ampex tape from the back end of the 60s onwards.
Something to do stopping using whale oil in the binder.
I would have thought stuff from the 50s would be unaffected, as long as the tape has been stored in stable conditions.

[spendorman]

I thought that the issue of tape shedding was primarily an issue with Ampex tape from the back end of the 60s onwards.
Something to do stopping using whale oil in the binder.
I would have thought stuff from the 50s would be unaffected, as long as the tape has been stored in stable conditions.

Yes, I remember the Ampex being a problem, Scotch also could be troublesome. Ampex, Scotch and EMI, cassettes and others did shed a lot. Never had trouble with Maxell, TDK, Philips, and others.

[TobesEtc]

Spendorman - tried to PM you but got message you have exceeded your stored message limit....

Hi,I really appreciate your message. Do you think your machine will play the tape? I'm very happy to drive over to you any time it is convenient? Can leave the tape with you if that is easier?

Thank you!

Toby.

[spendorman]

Sorry, someone just tried to send me a PM, my inbox was full, made some room now.

[The Barbarian]

Blimey, I'm not too far, my Akai 4000DS2 has not been used for about 20 years, not sure if it works. It has only 3 3/4 IPS and 7 1/2 IPS and it is Stereo. Those tapes as Andr'e say are likely to be Mono.



Aye that Akai should be ok as it has trk 1/4 & 3/2 switching.

[spendorman]

Akai 4000 DS Mk II taken out of storage, motor and mechanics work, now to connect it up and try a tape

[spendorman]

Yes, all working, amazing. Just playing a Police album recorded from LP to tape probably in the early 80's, sounds pretty good.

TobesEtc is going to post the tapes to me.

[topoxforddoc]

I would think about baking the tape first before trying to transcribe it. Lots of threads on this. I did this with my late grandad's tapes from the mid 60s on a Revox A77. Print through was a major problem though.

[PaulStewart]

No need to bake emitape, it is only Ampex who changed their binder formula, that had a problem with shedding after storage that requires this treatment. Print thorough on old tapes is common and the way to minimise it is always to store tapes tails out.

[spendorman]

Thank you for this, I had horrible thoughts of damaging these unique tapes.

[TobesEtc]

Thanks Spendorman, I'll have the tapes in the post today. Don't worry about damaging them, I appreciate you trying!

[spendorman]

Well, I've just played some tapes that are possibly older than yours, and those were OK.

Also found tapes from about 1972, of a friend of mine playing Neil Young, on my jumbo acoustic guitar, at my home.

It's quite funny, part way though I hear my late Father coming in and saying "it's too loud"

Dad obviously did not like Neil Young. Dad at that time would have been about a year younger than I am now, boy does that make me feel old.

[Macca]

It's quite funny, part way though I hear my late Father coming in and saying "it's too loud"

Dad obviously did not like Neil Young. Dad at that time would have been about a year younger than I am now, boy does that make me feel old.

Classic stuff. If I had tapes of my father he would probably be saying similar things on them.
'Turn it down', 'it's a load of rubbish', 'get a hair cut', etc

[spendorman]

Classic stuff. If I had tapes of my father he would probably be saying similar things on them.
'Turn it down', 'it's a load of rubbish', 'get a hair cut', etc

Funny thing, Neil Young was young then, he has aged. People tell me I don't look my age, trouble is sometimes I feel it!

[Macca]

When I was 20 someone criticised me for buying a Neil Young album, saying something like 'it's music for old fogeys'. I saw his point since to me at the time Neil Young was an old codger who was in his forties. That was 26 years ago! I don't feel any different though, and I still play Neil Young albums.

[spendorman]

When I was 20 someone criticised me for buying a Neil Young album, saying something like 'it's music for old fogeys'. I saw his point since to me at the time Neil Young was an old codger who was in his forties. That was 26 years ago! I don't feel any different though, and I still play Neil Young albums.

I'm a fair bit older then!

Find that most of Young's albums are not really of very good audio quality.

[Macca]

He likes to capture a raw, live feel, especially with Crazy Horse. I can dig that. Funny that his most popular album (Harvest) is one of the most polished of his productions, though.

[walpurgis]

When I was 20 someone criticised me for buying a Neil Young album, saying something like 'it's music for old fogeys'. I saw his point since to me at the time Neil Young was an old codger who was in his forties. That was 26 years ago! I don't feel any different though, and I still play Neil Young albums.

So do I, but I'm near his age! :)

Good music, is good music. Regardless of who plays it or how old they are!! :eyebrows:

[spendorman]

Going a bit off topic, I promise that I will return to it when I have received TobesEtc's tapes for transfer.

I fancy uploading my recording of my friend playing Neil young somewhere, perhaps in the hope that my long lost friend will see it.

Any suggestions as to where, YouTube perhaps? And, are there any implications in uploading it?

[Macca]

Neil might see it and ask for a royalty payment but on balance I doubt it. he's too busy with PONO anyway.

[spendorman]

Oh dear, I didn't know, just checked up the news.

[PaulStewart]

Alex,

If you post the track to YouTube, there is an agreement in place that means the songwriter will get paid any publishing royalties that are due. It's an automated system and matches the song to the author, so post away.

Just a thought, if the heads on your machine need degaussing, I'm in Chiswick and still have an old Ferrograph degausser that I have used for about 45 years.

[Barry]

No need to bake emitape, it is only Ampex who changed their binder formula, that had a problem with shedding after storage that requires this treatment. Print thorough on old tapes is common and the way to minimise it is always to store tapes tails out.

Why should that make a difference? The turns of tape are in equally close proximity. :scratch:

[spendorman]

Hi Paul

Thank you, I take it then that I'm OK to do this on youtube. Many people do versions of famous musicians.

Good point about the degaussing, somewhere I have a BIB Demagnetiser. I suppose that it might be close to 30 years since I used it. So thank you again.

I suspect that the heads are OK in that respect as I have played a Police recording that was pretty high quality, extended clear treble, and it has not been altered after playing.

[PaulStewart]

Why should that make a difference? The turns of tape are in equally close proximity. :scratch:

'Cos if you store the tape "Tails out" the print signal will have to pass through the backing layer to make a print and the strongest print through will be post print not pre print and will bemasked by the actual recording. The AES published loads on this back in the day check this link out, it's from a tech briefing I must of read first about in '94 when 3M launched 900 series tape, it explains it well. http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/3mtape/printthrough.pdf

Cheers

[vinylspinner]

That is good info Paul, thank you for the link.

Nigel

[spendorman]

I put one of the tracks of my friend, many years ago playing Neil Young on my guitar up on Youtube, possibly not one of the best tracks that he did.

http://youtu.be/SmGlW9ypMl0

If it is not relevant here, please moderators please feel free to move/ change it.

[PaulStewart]

I put one of the tracks of my friend, many years ago playing Neil Young on my guitar up on Youtube, possibly not one of the best tracks that he did.

http://youtu.be/SmGlW9ypMl0

If it is not relevant here, please moderators please feel free to move/ change it.

Hey Alex,

What did you use to transcribe to digital?

[spendorman]

Hi Paul
Original recording was done on Teleton STC 106 cassette deck in the early 70's, copied to reel to reel, Akai 4000 DS MkII in the early 80's. That same Akai was fed into the sound card of my PC, recorded to the PC using SuperMp3recorder. To get it on to you tube converted to WMV with Windows Movie Maker.

[PaulStewart]

Alex,

Just for a laugh, if you send me the Mp3 I might be able to get the hiss down a bit using CEDAR or Alpinesoft.

[spendorman]

That would be interesting, will do, but I need an email address. Thanks

[PaulStewart]

Alex you have a PM

[Barry]

'Cos if you store the tape "Tails out" the print signal will have to pass through the backing layer to make a print and the strongest print through will be post print not pre print and will bemasked by the actual recording. The AES published loads on this back in the day check this link out, it's from a tech briefing I must of read first about in '94 when 3M launched 900 series tape, it explains it well. http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/3mtape/printthrough.pdf

Cheers

I understand the difference between pre-echo (or pre-print) and post-print and agree the latter will tend to be masked by the actual recording, but the printing signal still has to pass through the backing layer regardless of how the tape is stored.

[PaulStewart]

I understand the difference between pre-echo (or pre-print) and post-print and agree the latter will tend to be masked by the actual recording, but the printing signal still has to pass through the backing layer regardless of how the tape is stored.

Did you read the tech briefing? It's all very clear and has been standard recording studio practice, to my certain knowledge for over 45 years.

[Barry]

Did you read the tech briefing? It's all very clear and has been standard recording studio practice, to my certain knowledge for over 45 years.

Yes I did, twice and I still don't understand the bit about the thickness of the oxide layer. I do understand the idea of post-print being masked by the recorded signal - and I think that is the sole reason for the practice.

[PaulStewart]

Yes I did, twice and I still don't understand the bit about the thickness of the oxide layer. I do understand the idea of post-print being masked by the recorded signal - and I think that is the sole reason for the practice.

OK so the entire recording industry, the tape manufacturers, who spent millions reserching backing layers and oxides/pure metals are wrong and you're right, well done. Do you happen to know the meaning of life and how to make a perpetual motion machine too? :laugh:

[spendorman]

I have received TobesEtc tapes.

They are on 3" spools and appear to he half track recorded at 3 3/4" IPS. This is fortunate as this is the slowest speed on my machine. My long gone Philips portable used 3" spools at 1 7/8 IPS.

I fed the output of the Akai 4000 DS II in to the input of my ancient Terratec sound card, and recorded the audio with Supermp3recorder. I chose 128 Kbps as it would provide good enough quality and a file size small enough to email (one side of a tape at a time).

The tapes appear to be in good condition and the audio quite clear.

[Barry]

OK so the entire recording industry, the tape manufacturers, who spent millions reserching backing layers and oxides/pure metals are wrong and you're right, well done. Do you happen to know the meaning of life and how to make a perpetual motion machine too? :laugh:

Did I say they were wrong? The reason for storing tapes 'tails out' to allow the print through to be masked by the recorded signal is reason enough. If you look at Figure 3, the separation between the tape layers is the same for pre-print as it is for post-print.

[TobesEtc]

Spendorman, thank you so much. Now listening to my Dad and his army mates mucking about, 11 years before I was born! Thank you all so much, this is what forums are all about. Spendorman, I owe you!

[spendorman]

TobesEtc

For the benefit of the other forum members, can you describe the audio quality in any way. Any print though noticeable, noise etc? We would never expect it to be Hi Fi!

[TobesEtc]

The audio quality - given it was done 57 years ago by four National Sericemen at a military barracks in Cyprus - is frankly brilliant. You'd think it was recorded recently. Little hiss or crackle, any issues with fidelity could be the 128-rate as much as the tape. No noticeable leaking of sound through from the tape. Basically, I'm amazed how good it is!

If anyone is really that interested, you are welcome to hear it - but it's just four guys talking about what they'd been up to while not on duty, wanting to get out of the army (they were on National Service, so are actually counting the days) and having a laugh.

[spendorman]

Thanks TobyEtc, yes, I thought it good. I wonder what machine it was recorded on, must have been quite good. Being 3" spools, quite possibly a portable. I think I remember someone saying on the tape that there was a green light that indicated the recording level, possibly an EM35 or similar.

http://www.hupse.eu/radio/tubes/EM35.htm

[spendorman]

The recorder in 1957 might have been something like this:

http://www.pimall.com/nais/pivintage/stuzzirecorder.html

I have no connection with that item.