View Full Version : Tannoy Dorset T185
I am considering a pair of these however I don't know an awful lot about them. Geoff (Walpugis) has mentioned that they do indeed possess the Tannoy 'house' sound, however I've done a little research and some say they produce a slightly woolly bass which is generally blamed on the ABR. The cabs appear to be very sturdy items, which is a good thing, and their dimensions would suit my listening room. These will be replacing my trusty B&W DM2's which may help you to understand the sort of sound I am looking for. The examples I am considering are located way down in Deal, Kent so an audition is out of the question, which is why I am sort of in the lap of the gods with this. I'd welcome peoples thoughts and opinions which could help me to determine whether they will be a worthy successor to the B&W's or not. Thank you ;)
As I recall one of the things you liked about the B&W was the top end sparkle from the supertweeter. You aren't going to get that with a Tannoy DC.
walpurgis
25-08-2014, 15:35
The pepperpot Tannoys (which these are) are hardly short of top end "sparkle". I believe these drivers use the same magnet and tweeter assembly as my 3128 units and mine are beautifully extended and airy at the top.
Agreed, Geoff, although I know where Martin’s coming from.
Despite the fact that what you’re saying about the Tannoys is right, I can still hear a marked difference in the high-frequency presentation of my 66s, which have a type of ‘supertweeter’, and that of my Monitor Golds. The former unquestionably have more top-end ’sparkle’.
However, the Tannoys are not obviously lacking in that area - that is until you compare them back-to-back in the same system with speakers that have audibly superior high-frequency extension, which in terms of Celestion 66s versus Tannoy DCs, is something I'm able to do on a daily basis :)
Marco.
The pepperpot Tannoys (which these are) are hardly short of top end "sparkle". I believe these drivers use the same magnet and tweeter assembly as my 3128 units and mine are beautifully extended and airy at the top.
This. It is a fallacy that the DC can't do top end. To 15KHz, most of them (non-pepperpot included) are fine. They just get a little peaky (ie up and down) after that but unless you have the hearing of a bat, that's not going to present itself as an issue. Due to age, there will almost certainly be tweaks (crossovers etc) that can be done to improve the Dorsets but don't expect the taught bass of an HPD unit in a bass reflex or sealed cabinet for example, because the cab/passive radiator design used has a higher group delay than bass reflex and they can sound a little "muddy" in the bass as a result. I'd pretty much say it'd be a sideways move so little point Dave. Better off having a slim cabinet made up for a 12 inch HPD unit if you want to go the Tannoy route and are pushed for footprint space or think Chatsworths or similar (you can DIY a simple cabinet of the correct volume for reasonable money or look out for a set of cabs as they often go very cheap on their own).
I'm going to let this run a bit longer before I comment further *kicks back to watch the show* :popcorn: :D
This. It is a fallacy that the DC can't do top end. To 15KHz, most of them (non-pepperpot included) are fine. They just get a little peaky (ie up and down) after that but unless you have the hearing of a bat, that's not going to present itself as an issue. Due to age, there will almost certainly be tweaks (crossovers etc) that can be done to improve the Dorsets but don't expect the taught bass of an HPD unit in a bass reflex or sealed cabinet for example, because the cab/passive radiator design used has a higher group delay than bass reflex and they can sound a little "muddy" in the bass as a result. I'd pretty much say it'd be a sideways move so little point Dave. Better off having a slim cabinet made up for a 12 inch HPD unit if you want to go the Tannoy route and are pushed for footprint space or think Chatsworths or similar (you can DIY a simple cabinet of the correct volume for reasonable money or look out for a set of cabs as they often go very cheap on their own).
Ah bollocks, here we go then: I am supposed to be calling EmporiumHiFi tomorrow morning as I have offered the Skibo's as part of the deal. Probably won't bother now though as you have confirmed what I've read elsewhere Paul. I reckon at best, once the Skibo's and DM2's have sold, I'll have around five to six hundred squid to my name. Not sure I'm going to get anywhere near close to a pair of 'proper' Tannoys for that, therefore I shall probably look elsewhere for my fix... ;)
I wasn't saying that the Tannoy DC doesn't do top end. I am just saying that if you asked me to name a bright/sparkly/toppy sounding speaker then Tannoy DC would not be one I would immediately think of...
I wasn't saying that the Tannoy DC doesn't do top end. I am just saying that if you asked me to name a bright/sparkly/toppy sounding speaker then Tannoy DC would not be one I would immediately think of...
That's true Martin. The balance isn't "toppy" as you say.
BTH K10A
25-08-2014, 17:07
Ah bollocks, here we go then: I am supposed to be calling EmporiumHiFi tomorrow morning as I have offered the Skibo's as part of the deal. Probably won't bother now though as you have confirmed what I've read elsewhere Paul. I reckon at best, once the Skibo's and DM2's have sold, I'll have around five to six hundred squid to my name. Not sure I'm going to get anywhere near close to a pair of 'proper' Tannoys for that, therefore I shall probably look elsewhere for my fix... ;)
Dave, if you're prepared to do some diy you might find these interesting. Footprint is not that large. :)
Top JBL sound is IMHO better that Tannoy DC's and I've owned both.
Well over £4k each when new and there's no way you could buy the drivers for the auction price today. Real top quality bullet proof equipment.
They may not be handed though but that's where some of the diy comes in other that a trip to a car paint shop ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281420498666?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Dave, if you're prepared to do some diy you might find these interesting. Footprint is not that large. :)
Top JBL sound is IMHO better that Tannoy DC's and I've owned both.
Well over £4k each when new and there's no way you could buy the drivers for the auction price today. Real top quality bullet proof equipment.
They may not be handed though but that's where some of the diy comes in other that a trip to a car paint shop ;)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281420498666?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Okay picture this: I click your link, look at the photo which appears and immediately think, "Now they are manly speakers", BUT... There are another pair of eyes watching and from the mouth located just below those eyes there issues a proclamation of absolute finality: "NO!!!"
I think I'll pass... :eyebrows:
p.s. I did offer to paint them pink but the look said it all... :lol:
BTH K10A
25-08-2014, 17:44
Okay picture this: I click your link, look at the photo which appears and immediately think, "Now they are manly speakers", BUT... There are another pair of eyes watching and from the mouth located just below those eyes there issues a proclamation of absolute finality: "NO!!!"
I think I'll pass... :eyebrows:
p.s. I did offer to paint them pink but the look said it all... :lol:
Should has ofered to paint them to look like Loiis Vuitton steamer trunks with matching grille cloth :lol:
Suitable cabinets for Tannoy's are going to be just as big :eek:
Should has ofered to paint them to look like Loiis Vuitton steamer trunks with matching grille cloth :lol:
Suitable cabinets for Tannoy's are going to be just as big :eek:
As long as they are no taller than my Skibo's and not a lot wider than my DM2's then I should be able to swing it I reckon, which limits me to ten or twelve inch drivers. I knew I was onto a loser with the JBL's when Jo asked why there were no barrels poking out from the gun emplacements... :lol:
walpurgis
25-08-2014, 19:06
Never mind Dave. I reckon you'd have loved the Dorsets, but save your dosh for some Eatons instead. Last few pairs I saw on eBay went at around £425.
Never mind Dave. I reckon you'd have loved the Dorsets, but save your dosh for some Eatons instead. Last few pairs I saw on eBay went at around £425.
I've since had an even more radical idea Geoff (I'm full of 'em ya know :lol:) although I wouldn't want to say anymore until I've heard back from a certain member as it may yet not happen. T'is all a bit cloak and dagger just now... :D
walpurgis
25-08-2014, 19:41
I've since had an even more radical idea Geoff
Oh dear. Sounds ominous! :eek:
Oh dear. Sounds ominous! :eek:
This is definitely one of those 'sublime to ridiculous' ideas... :eek:
I think I need saving from myself :lol:
If you keep your eyes peeled Dave for a pair of Devons, Chatsworths or Cheviots, you can get these for about your budget. There's several pairs going on Ebay at the minute for around £700. You'd have to bargain a few hundred at some point in time for a crossover doctoring to get them sounding at their best, and some simple cabinet stiffening work plus improved internal damping. That said, any of those should fit the bill. Go 12 inch if you can afford the space. It makes a difference. Just check things like foam surrounds. If they haven't yet been done, they soon will need doing but you can buy kits and do things like this yourself.
I really cannot afford to go to 700 quid Paul, £500 is my top whack and even that would be stretching tensions here at home.
walpurgis
26-08-2014, 09:27
Just spotted these: http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/1-tannoy-dmt-mk1-system-10-dual-concentric-speaker-may-px-rega-turntable/1078216667
In Manchester. Why he's selling them singly I don't know, but he has a pair and at £400 for both that's a bit of a bargain. I've seen them fetch more on eBay.
They sound beautiful. My mate has a pair on the end of an EAR 861 power amp and it sounds superb. These have 10" units with tulip waveguides. Very nice.
Gotta sell the Skibo's first Geoff and I won't be in a position to photograph them until Thursday at the earliest :eyebrows:
Hi Dave,
I really cannot afford to go to 700 quid Paul, £500 is my top whack and even that would be stretching tensions here at home.
Surely £500 would get you a decent pair of Celestions, of some description? Probably not 66s, but certainly something still rather nice, slightly further down the food chain :)
With Tannoy DCs, my advice would be to 'do it right’ or don’t bother, and for me (much as Geoff will no doubt disagree), £500 will not get you a proper pair of Tannoy DCs.
Marco.
Hi Dave,
Surely £500 would get you a decent pair of Celestions, of some description? Probably not 66s, but certainly something still rather nice, slightly further down the food chain :)
With Tannoy DCs, my advice would be to 'do it right’ or don’t bother, and for me (much as Geoff will no doubt disagree), £500 will not get you a proper pair of Tannoy DCs.
Marco.
I tend to agree with you here Marco. It's a sad fact of life that just a few years ago you couldn't give some HPD equipped cabinets away and now they're in serious loudspeaker money territory. In many ways, starting off with a budget of around £500 to £600, I'd be looking towards building a kit to tailor a speaker to its surroundings. Hard when you've not heard one, but there are some great kits available in this price range. A little woodwork (gluing up) and soldering required but the sense of achievement can be huge, especially if the right ones are chosen.
Yup, Paul, that would certainly be the best way of Dave obtaining maximum SPPV, however I suspect that he'd be more into the 'fit & forget' option...
Celestion-wise, these look like fun: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Celestion-Ditton-25-/201152620566?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item2ed5a16816
That's a lot of speaker for the money, and based on the drive units used (most of which I'm familiar with) would almost certainly sound superb.. The remaining £250 can thus be spent on music!
Marco.
anubisgrau
26-08-2014, 10:05
my personal problem with the tannoy cabs based on 2528 driver is the sound of a plastic cone. it is nowhere near as organic and natural as paper cones produced before (and after), plus it somehow has a bit of a honk (maybe i'm tripping here). if you listen to a heavily electronically processed music none of this is a big issue, you can live with that, but if you stick with the real sound of the non amplified instruments they are a bit difficult. they can be reconed with paper cones though and that's entirely different sound. i don't think an ABR is their main problem.
my personal problem with the tannoy cabs based on 2528 driver is the sound of a plastic cone. it is nowhere near as organic and natural as paper cones produced before (and after), plus it somehow has a bit of a honk (maybe i'm tripping here).
Exactly my experience. Furthermore, some of them can sound shockingly bright, especially when paired with digital sources (and forward sounding SS amps), where their ruthlessly revealing nature makes them unlistenable with almost anything other than pristine recordings.
Marco.
walpurgis
26-08-2014, 10:24
I did advise Dave that those plastic cones in the Dorset are tonally different. As pointed out they can be fitted with paper pulp cones and then you have a driver similar to that used in the SRM 10. Unfortunately, I believe the only cones available these days, sport the stiff corrugated fabric surrounds and that limits bass extension and it's an expensive exercise. I heard a pair of Chevenings which had had that exact cone assembly installed after the original HPD 295 foam surrounds failed and the bass was rather limited afterwards.
The Ditton 25s are fun, but a bit undefined through the lower mid. You can't really grumble at that price though. They'll certainly shake the house and the treble is first class.
The DMT 10 Tannoys should not be underestimated. I've heard these on a good system a number of times and they really do the business, with no 'plastic cone' colouration. The level of transparency is superb and they image as dual concentrics should.
I did advise Dave that those plastic cones in the Dorset are tonally different. As pointed out they can be fitted with paper pulp cones and then you have a driver similar to that used in the SRM 10. Unfortunately, I believe the only cones available these days, sport the stiff corrugated fabric surrounds and that limits bass extension and it's an expensive exercise. I heard a pair of Chevenings which had had that exact cone assembly installed after the original HPD 295 foam surrounds failed and the bass was rather limited afterwards.
The Ditton 25s are fun, but a bit undefined through the lower mid. You can't really grumble at that price though. They'll certainly shake the house and the treble is first class.
The DMT 10 Tannoys should not be underestimated. I've heard these on a good system a number of times and they really do the business, with no 'plastic cone' colouration. The level of transparency is superb and they image as dual concentrics should.
Good points Geoff. At Dave's budget, the only affordable Tannoys really might be the DMT 10s. Imagery I think is mis-quoted RE DC speakers. They can be listened to close up and personal (hence their use in studios) without phase shift courtesy of the DC design but in terms of throwing a big image, their off axis performance is compromised compared to many other two way designs. Still good though. I think that Dave may yet have another little project he'd like to explore though ;)
Hi Dave,
Surely £500 would get you a decent pair of Celestions, of some description? Probably not 66s, but certainly something still rather nice, slightly further down the food chain :)
With Tannoy DCs, my advice would be to 'do it right’ or don’t bother, and for me (much as Geoff will no doubt disagree), £500 will not get you a proper pair of Tannoy DCs.
Marco.
I know what you would call a 'proper' pair of DC's Marco.
Leaving aside the costs involved for essential servicing to keep these things in tip top condition:
1: I don't have the available budget
2: Big Tannoy's would not be a practical proposition for this room.
3: Jo will not stomach having huge boxes in here even if '2:' wasn't an issue.
Ditton 44's were one of the many casualties of this rooms fooked up acoustics (to my great surprise) therefore I won't be revisiting those. I am not a fan either of the Ditton 33 nor the 22. They may sound spot on but I could not live with their look. I apologise if that offends some members sensibilities but it is a factor none-the-less. I would never be happy with them so there's no point to me buying a pair. So, what does that leave? Ditton 15XR's maybe? No. As good as they are I'd expect the Dorset's to substantially out-perform them so in essence it would be a retrograde step. I did like the County MKII's which I once owned but again, this would be a retrograde step. Have I missed anything? ;)
The Ditton 25s are fun, but a bit undefined through the lower mid. You can't really grumble at that price though. They'll certainly shake the house and the treble is first class.
Exactly, although “undefined through the lower mid” is perhaps subjective and/or system dependent. For £250, though, they’ll certainly provide plenty of ‘bang for your buck’ and give Dave a taste of the bigger vintage Celestions.
However, he’d have to find a way of collecting them in London… Perhaps someone here, who lives in the big smoke and travels up Dave’s way sometimes could collect them for him for the cost of their fuel? Anyway, we’d have to see first if Dave was interested.
The DMT 10 Tannoys should not be underestimated. I've heard these on a good system a number of times and they really do the business, with no 'plastic cone' colouration. The level of
transparency is superb and they image as dual concentrics should.
I’ve no experience of them, but they do look rather bulky and also an awkward shape to house… For example, simply sitting them on the floor looks like they’d be too low for the tweeters to be positioned at ear height, and so some stands would be required, thus adding to the cost and overall ‘hassle factor’.
Marco.
So, what does that leave? Ditton 15XR's maybe? No. As good as they are I'd expect the Dorset's to substantially out-perform them so in essence it would be a retrograde step. I did like the County MKII's which I once owned but again, this would be a retrograde step. Have I missed anything? ;)
Yes, the 25s (linked to on ebay), as they’re a different proposition to all the other Celestions you’ve heard…. Given the size and driver line-up, I suspect they’d give a goodly dose of the performance of 66s for a fraction of the price!
Marco.
walpurgis
26-08-2014, 10:53
Yes, the DMT 10s require stands (shortish ones). Not having dimensions to hand I'd estimate they are around 25" tall and 15" wide, by 11" deep, so not too difficult to find space for. Don't let the compact dimensions fool you though, they have a very punchy and surprisingly deep bottom end.
I’m sure that’s the case, however, Dave would have to think very carefully of the space required to comfortably house such (fairly bulky) speakers, perched on top of stands, as the overall ‘footprint’ would be substantial, and I’m led to believe that his room isn’t overly large and is also used for other things than hi-fi shenanigans! ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
26-08-2014, 11:07
Well if space is 'the final fronteer' These give a good taste of Tannoy magic in a very compact box: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tannoy-Saturn-S8LR-Loudspeakers-with-original-boxes-and-manual-/121418712131?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item1c451e8443
They are pretty similar to the excellent System 800 model and use what is basically the same driver with a different shaped basket and a differently styled box. Very sweet sounding speaker, obviously does not have the wallop of the big'uns, but not bad at all.
(I'm quite tempted myself)
I think that Dave may yet have another little project he'd like to explore though ;)
Okay, time to come clean. Although I have not come to a concrete decision as yet about which direction I'd like to go in I just cannot ignore the (baby) elephants in the room, which are the Mission 760i's. These are the first small Missions I've owned and despite their humble origins and dimensions they out-perform every other speaker I've ever had in here and by a substantial margin, I am not kidding. Perhaps it is because the room is small and neither my 306 nor the Missions have to work too hard to fill it with wonderfully dynamic music, but dynamic it is and exciting too. Sure I am missing the bass extension of both the Skibo's and the DM2's but somehow that just doesn't matter, bass isn't everything, ask any LS3/5A owner. For whatever reason these tiny little boxes just 'do it' for me so I have asked Paul to come up with a plan, within my proposed budget, to relieve them of their cheapo cabinets and cloth them in something a little bit special.
One thing this thread has highlighted is that questions posed about Tannoy's are likely to generate a thousand and one different answers :lol:
Okay, time to come clean. Although I have not come to a concrete decision as yet about which direction I'd like to go in I just cannot ignore the (baby) elephants in the room, which are the Mission 760i's. These are the first small Missions I've owned and despite their humble origins and dimensions they out-perform every other speaker I've ever had in here and by a substantial margin, I am not kidding. Perhaps it is because the room is small and neither my 306 nor the Missions have to work too hard to fill it with wonderfully dynamic music, but dynamic it is and exciting too. Sure I am missing the bass extension of both the Skibo's and the DM2's but somehow that just doesn't matter, bass isn't everything, ask any LS3/5A owner. For whatever reason these tiny little boxes just 'do it' for me so I have asked Paul to come up with a plan, within my proposed budget, to relieve them of their cheapo cabinets and cloth them in something a little bit special.
Interesting plan, which I’m sure will reap significant rewards, so good luck with it! :thumbsup:
Marco.
Interesting plan, which I’m sure will reap significant rewards, so good luck with it! :thumbsup:
Marco.
It's weird really, I've had the 760's in my near-field system for around a week and a half now and they continue to surprise me. How Mission produced such a fabulous sounding speaker for so little money is really quite astonishing. I paid 40 quid for them on a whim and wasn't expecting all that much if I'm being honest. Originally destined for a wee kitchen system, out of curiosity I tried them in the 'big rig' and subsequently my jaw hit the floor. For such tiny boxes they produce a very big sound, and it's clean sound too. The old axiom about hearing things one hasn't before is completely relevant here. They don't excite the room and what bass there is is drum-skin tight and foot-tappingly infectious. Their mid range performance is uncannily 'accurate' and stuffed full to the brim with natural ambience. Imaging is pin-sharp too in a soundstage which seems to extend off into the ether in all directions. Quite remarkable really. If I have one criticism of them it is that they can be rather unforgiving of poor quality recordings however I can live with that... ;)
Must say the 760i seems an unlikely speaker to have a love affair with. My memory of them is that they were a bit 'clattery' but I suppose that could have been the rest of the system since it wasn't mine.
Still, if there are improvments to be had I am sure Paul will wring them out.
I have a pair here and they're the only budget type speakers I've ever kept on. They were bought when new by my father-in-law, I was given them years ago and they've stayed ever since as a back up speaker. They only clatter off the end stops if driven too hard. Keep them within their limits and they're wonderful little speakers and better imho than the later and more expensive missions which replaced them once they sold out to China.
Drivers are nothing special but as a whole, its a bookshelf speaker that has never really been beaten on a budget, not even by the mighty little Wharfedale Diamond.
They need a less resonant cabinet, a properly designed port (same tuning though) and a few crossover upgrades but can be made to sound rather remarkable, bass limitations to one side.
One of the little gems that too many wrote off as being "too budget to be any good"
istari_knight
26-08-2014, 15:50
An interesting idea indeed ! The 780SE were very capable too.
Spares are plentiful & cheap too so no worries on that front, unlike the B&W/Coles.
An interesting idea indeed ! The 780SE were very capable too.
Spares are plentiful & cheap too so no worries on that front, unlike the B&W/Coles.
Indeed James. I had a pair of 780 SE's back in the mid 80's and they were surprisingly powerful. The only fault with the pair I had was that the treble was a bit muted (more than likely an issue with them) and the weren't as well integrated as the 760i's.
I also had a pair of 750se's but overall, the 760i was the one I preferred and which gave better VFM.
walpurgis
26-08-2014, 18:52
The 780SE were very capable too.
I was going to mention those. I had a pair as my second speakers for years, bloody marvellous little things.
Magna Audio
26-08-2014, 19:31
Dorsets were my first taste of Tannoy.
Once hooked it escalated to 15" big cabs and on to more horn loaded all the way to 5 way:)
Go, go, go..
Dave, why not take a punt on these and see how they compare with your Missions:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33423-Tannoy-DC-1000-Speakers
Could be a giggle! ;)
Marco.
walpurgis
29-08-2014, 10:40
Dave, why not take a punt on these and see how they compare with your Missions:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?33423-Tannoy-DC-1000-Speakers
Could be a giggle! ;)
Marco.
Funny you should mention those Marco. The same thought crossed my mind when I saw the 'bump' yesterday.
I expect Dave's finding himself with too many options at the moment. Been there myself. Decisions, decisions...........
Anyway, the DC1000s are a hoot. Bit of colouration, but not bad and they are really dynamic and punchy little speakers with excellent imaging. They go wickedly loud too. The only cheap speakers I found as much fun as my Mission 780 SEs.
Yeah, I agree. Just thought it would be a giggle doing a comparison with his Missions, especially as the Tannoys are for sale at a pocket money price! :)
Marco.
I have it on good authority that Mayfair T225s are the ones to go for. Although, it seems that the Tannoy ship may have already sailed for Dave….
Marco.
walpurgis
30-08-2014, 10:02
The Tannoy Mayfair and Dorset are basically similar. The Mayfair having a 'posh' cabinet and the Dorset being much plainer. The sizes are similar and the drivers identical.
Anybody being unhappy with using an ABR can take it out and put a reinforced blank in the aperture. The DC driver should work well enough in what becomes a sealed box and sound cleaner in the bass or a port can be included in the blanking panel for reflex experimentation. Not done it on this speaker, but I have tried the same with ABR KEFs, it works. In my opinion a KEF Cadenza sounds better ported than with the ABR.
The Tannoy Mayfair and Dorset are basically similar. The Mayfair having a 'posh' cabinet and the Dorset being much plainer. The sizes are similar and the drivers identical.
Anybody being unhappy with using an ABR can take it out and put a reinforced blank in the aperture. The DC driver should work well enough in what becomes a sealed box and sound cleaner in the bass or a port can be included in the blanking panel for reflex experimentation. Not done it on this speaker, but I have tried the same with ABR KEFs, it works. In my opinion a KEF Cadenza sounds better ported than with the ABR.
Except that by doing that (doing away with ABR and putting a blanking plate in) you lower the system sensitivity and change the tuning so I wouldn't recommend this. The cabs have been sized with ABR in mind. If changing them at all, a port sized for low maximum velocity (<7m/s) is possibly the better compromise. I agree RE porting. Done well (and few budget speakers are) it can sound better than an ABR design. I'd be tempted to run a few sims on cab size for the port options given the TS data for the drivers...better chance of getting it right that way.
walpurgis
30-08-2014, 11:09
Except that by doing that (doing away with ABR and putting a blanking plate in) you lower the system sensitivity and change the tuning so I wouldn't recommend this. The cabs have been sized with ABR in mind. If changing them at all, a port sized for low maximum velocity (<7m/s) is possibly the better compromise. I agree RE porting. Done well (and few budget speakers are) it can sound better than an ABR design. I'd be tempted to run a few sims on cab size for the port options given the TS data for the drivers...better chance of getting it right that way.
All true. But a bit of reversible experimentation does no harm.
We are currently reviewing our options. Paul has come up with an exciting plan which would take the 760's to the next level however he has also balanced that by recommending a few existing options. This is a decision myself and Jo both want and need to get absolutely correct if we are to avoid climbing aboard the speaker merry-go-round once again, however nothing is going to happen until the Skibo's are sold and of course Sod's Law has intervened at exactly the wrong moment. I am currently going through one of the most painful flare ups in my condition I have experienced for a very long time so photographing the Skibo's is out of the question just now.
Truly I am gutted the DM2's have to go but go they must. The 760i's are little gems however they do not possess the DM2's remarkable ability to make just about any music sound special regardless of the quality of the recording and so my listening habits have changed as a consequence. The jury is still out on whether this is a good thing or not, only time will tell and we have all the time in the world.
That’s cool, Dave. Take your time and get it right. Also, hope you get better soon! :)
Marco.
I find myself listening to far more orchestral music than I used to which is interesting in itself considering the Missions are so wee. They convey a full orchestra with a scale which absolutely defies their diminutive size. Go figure... :scratch:
If you are a classical music fan who is stuck for space, on a tight budget and have decent sounding source components and amplification then I heartily commend the Mission 760i's to you. Do not let their tiny frames put you off, in every other respect these speakers present orchestral music in its true form. I haven't enjoyed listening to classical music so much since I was at school on the excellent system which inhabited our music room, and that is high praise indeed.
spendorman
30-08-2014, 12:33
We are currently reviewing our options. Paul has come up with an exciting plan which would take the 760's to the next level however he has also balanced that by recommending a few existing options. This is a decision myself and Jo both want and need to get absolutely correct if we are to avoid climbing aboard the speaker merry-go-round once again, however nothing is going to happen until the Skibo's are sold and of course Sod's Law has intervened at exactly the wrong moment. I am currently going through one of the most painful flare ups in my condition I have experienced for a very long time so photographing the Skibo's is out of the question just now.
Truly I am gutted the DM2's have to go but go they must. The 760i's are little gems however they do not possess the DM2's remarkable ability to make just about any music sound special regardless of the quality of the recording and so my listening habits have changed as a consequence. The jury is still out on whether this is a good thing or not, only time will tell and we have all the time in the world.
It seems that you like the DM2's, but they have to go, because of size? If so, how about the DM4? Good as they are, I find the mid of the DM2 slightly recessed, DM4's in my view are better in this respect, not the bass extension of the DM2, but not bad for their smaller size.
It seems that you like the DM2's, but they have to go, because of size? If so, how about the DM4? Good as they are, I find the mid of the DM2 slightly recessed, DM4's in my view are better in this respect, not the bass extension of the DM2, but not bad for their smaller size.
Great idea Alex except that the DM4's also contain a Coles tweeter and I have it on good authority that its days are numbered, plus I am a cack-handed sod who kills them far too regularly for my wallet to sustain :eyebrows:
spendorman
30-08-2014, 12:48
Great idea Alex except that the DM4's also contain a Coles tweeter and I have it on good authority that its days are numbered, plus I am a cack-handed sod who kills them far too regularly for my wallet to sustain :eyebrows:
The Coles 4004G is still available from Coles as far as I know. Not abused, they last a long time. I have some that I bought in 1968, still perfect. Anyway, one can easily substitute other tweeters for that use. I have done so with good success. In fact, the earliest DM2's used a Heyco/ Peerless tweeter in place of the Coles 4001G.
spendorman
30-08-2014, 12:52
Early DM2
http://img.xooimage.com/files69/4/7/a/dm2-2d31824.jpg
Harbeth's P3esr should be an excellent option but I doubt very much I will find a pair within my budget.
spendorman
30-08-2014, 12:57
Harbeth's P3esr should be an excellent option but I doubt very much I will find a pair within my budget.
Not too sure about that, I have Chartwell LS3/5a's 15 Ohm, very good, but still a small speaker compared to DM2/ DM4. P3esr is small too, probably similar to the Chartwells.
Alex, as I mentioned earlier in the thread the 760's have demonstrated conclusively that I need smaller speakers in this room to achieve a balanced sound. The Coles failures are my own doing, I readily admit, and yes they are still currently available from Falcon Acoustics and are indeed still being manufactured by Coles. The issue is that there is just one guy who makes them and he has been working for Coles since the ark and is due to retire. I have heard from the next best thing to the horses mouth that once he retires production will cease.
spendorman
30-08-2014, 13:11
Alex, as I mentioned earlier in the thread the 760's have demonstrated conclusively that I need smaller speakers in this room to achieve a balanced sound. The Coles failures are my own doing, I readily admit, and yes they are still currently available from Falcon Acoustics and are indeed still being manufactured by Coles. The issue is that there is just one guy who makes them and he has been working for Coles since the ark and is due to retire. I have heard from the next best thing to the horses mouth that once he retires production will cease.
Are the DM4's too big then? Even if production of the 4001G stops, a DM4 minus the Coles is still a usable speaker. It sounds not too bad without the Coles supertweeter, or a different unit can be used.
From memory, and I would need to check, the DM4 runs the HF1300 up to it's upper high frequency limit. The DM2 limits the extension of the HF1300.
I have both Spendor BC1 and Rogers LS3/6, both use the HF1300, the BC1 uses a Coles 4001G above it, the LS3/6 uses Celestion HF2000 above it's HF1300, I don't think anyone could hear any difference in top end.
All speakers are a compromise Dave. Best advice is to stick with ones which allow you to really enjoy your music regardless of budget. Don't feel that you have to or need to spend loads. If the Missions do it for you, then surely that's a great thing as spares are readily available and cheap! If you can, get a listen to the 780SE's which are also little gems as they have a little more in the bass power department than the 760's but are still missing the lower Octave. That's the thing with most little speakers...you will miss the bottom Octave (or two in some cases) but they do so much else so well. Imaging and good midrange. That tweeter can be improved upon too IF ever needed.
It's not the cost of the drivers though. Some budget drivers, with reasonable response mated to a good cabinet and crossover design will always sound better than using expensive drivers with a poor crossover and cabinet design. Mission got it right with the 760i.
As mentioned when we chatted, have a long think as the route you're going down opens up other options including slim floor standers and other stand mounts. There'll always be "better" out there, but what matters for you is picking something that you really enjoy and can live with long term irrespective of what might be "better".
All speakers are a compromise Dave. Best advice is to stick with ones which allow you to really enjoy your music regardless of budget. Don't feel that you have to or need to spend loads. If the Missions do it for you, then surely that's a great thing as spares are readily available and cheap! If you can, get a listen to the 780SE's which are also little gems as they have a little more in the bass power department than the 760's but are still missing the lower Octave. That's the thing with most little speakers...you will miss the bottom Octave (or two in some cases) but they do so much else so well. Imaging and good midrange. That tweeter can be improved upon too IF ever needed.
It's not the cost of the drivers though. Some budget drivers, with reasonable response mated to a good cabinet and crossover design will always sound better than using expensive drivers with a poor crossover and cabinet design. Mission got it right with the 760i.
As mentioned when we chatted, have a long think as the route you're going down opens up other options including slim floor standers and other stand mounts. There'll always be "better" out there, but what matters for you is picking something that you really enjoy and can live with long term irrespective of what might be "better".
Admittedly your upgrade and cabinet proposal for the Missions is incredibly tempting however I need to cover all the bases before coming to a decision. As we discussed on the phone I am happy to lose the bottom octave if the overall sound floats my boat and the 760's are so nearly there in that respect. Like you I suspect that the cabinets may be responsible for their slight shortfall in refinement on certain material. Do you think it might be wise to play with the existing cabs for now to see what can be achieved? I'm thinking sound deadening material applied to the inside walls of the cabs to reduce resonance, this at least would give me some small indication of what to expect from a redesigned enclosure.
Gordon Steadman
30-08-2014, 14:23
Are the DM4's too big then? Even if production of the 4001G stops, a DM4 minus the Coles is still a usable speaker. It sounds not too bad without the Coles supertweeter, or a different unit can be used.
From memory, and I would need to check, the DM4 runs the HF1300 up to it's upper high frequency limit. The DM2 limits the extension of the HF1300.
I have both Spendor BC1 and Rogers LS3/6, both use the HF1300, the BC1 uses a Coles 4001G above it, the LS3/6 uses Celestion HF2000 above it's HF1300, I don't think anyone could hear any difference in top end.
I use a Kef T27 above the HF1300 and it sounds fine. At least I think it does, my hearing doesn't go that far these days so I'm probably only hearing the Celestion anyway:)
spendorman
30-08-2014, 15:07
I use a Kef T27 above the HF1300 and it sounds fine. At least I think it does, my hearing doesn't go that far these days so I'm probably only hearing the Celestion anyway:)
Yes, T27 was used as well, believe in Rogers Export Monitors, Colloms Mini Monitor and many more.
The Barbarian
31-08-2014, 11:18
The Tannoy Mayfair and Dorset are basically similar. The Mayfair having a 'posh' cabinet and the Dorset being much plainer. The sizes are similar and the drivers identical.
I can assure thee Geoff they are not the same regardless of both using the same units. I know ive lived with both.. The 'Dorset' has a single Presence control on the rear, The 'Mayfair' has a Presence & also an additional Treble control on top under smoked pannel which is all nice & neat.. The only downside is im a paper cone fan.
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