PDA

View Full Version : Stan's Fans



The Grand Wazoo
23-07-2009, 22:50
No, this isn't a thread about Stan's new secret Class A Krell stomping power amp that gets so hot that it needs fan cooling.

And I post this here at the risk of the management deciding that 'The Digital Impression' should be renamed to honour the contribution that people witing about Stan's products have made to the bulk of this area of the forum.

Still, I have some things that must be said.

So for you to understand why I bought one of Stan's DAC's I should explain a little of the background.
My home is in N. Lincolnshire, but I work in Lancashire & during the week I stay in digs in Preston. I have a very nice hi-fi at home that I've spent years getting to the point where I feel it's something to be quite proud of because of the way it plays the music I like. It's cost me a fair bit, but it's evolved over a long period of time & I've bought prudently and usually second hand.

I also have a lot of periferal gear in other rooms of the house, making up several different ways of listening to music. This is very important, because I have to have music playing pretty much all the time that I'm not at work (& when I used to work at home, I played it then too). So I'm happy enough listening through what many people would consider to be fairly ropey old gear. I have a small collection of old receivers, for example, that I use frequently, which are good enough that I never feel I'm really missing out on anything important to the spirit of the music I'm playing.

So, for roughly the last year, I've been using a cobbled together system while in Preston, which is made up from various things that have been available to me. Money has been short because of the circumstances that led me to have to take a job away from home, so a new, smaller system, was out of the question.

I started out using just an old DVD player to play CD's & good quality mp3 player with a reasonable (20 gig) storage capacity. These were played through a Marantz receiver into Tannoy Mercury MkII's on some good pedestal stands. That was OK, but then I managed to snaffle a Yamaha CR 1020 receiver, a beautiful piece of old gear that I truly love & sounds great - cost: 70 odd quid from Ebay.

Recently, the idea of moving the family over to Lancashire has become more realistic as my daughter finished her A levels and was looking for an Art college to go to. So we started looking for houses to rent - the idea being that we hang on to our old house to finish it's restoration & in the meantime the market will improve. We found a place close to Lancaster which will suit quite nicely for a while - we start moving in a couple of weeks.

I realised that the layout in this place allows for a whole room for the records, CD's & main hi-fi gear, while the living room only need have the speakers in it. This room will be interesting because it's built of stone & the main walls are not parallel - I'm sure it'll sound great! There's another reception room as well, that will serve as a study & (real) music room - we have guitars, a piano & my daughter is a serious cellist. So this room will also need have a pretty reasonable stereo in it too, because we'll be spending quite a lot of time in it.

This is where Stan comes in!!!

Up to now, all my serious digital sources have been routed through the very flexible DAC in my Accuphase CD player & it worked fine. In our new place, though, it won't be practical to route cables from the extra room all the way to the DP67 so I thought that a stand alone DAC would be the thing. Paying two lots of Council Tax & all the other things that we'll have to face mean that cash is still going to be a little tight for a while, so I needed a cheap solution. And of course as I spend a lot of time on AoS, I couldn't help but notice Stan & his products - there he was, sitting in the corner, winking at me!

So I bought a TC-7520 a couple of weeks ago & have been burning it in for a while. Nowadays, my main weekday source of music is Spotify from my PC (which only streams at approx ~160kbit/s), via a pretty scruffy USB cable to the 7520, down a 15 metre home made interconnect (yes 15, not 1.5!) into the big old, but lovely, Yamaha CR 1020 receiver & Tannoys.

Things are still a little bright, but no brighter than seems to be the flavour at the moment. The bass has really come together over the last couple of days though. Before, there was lots of it but there was no real definition. The most pleasing thing is the amount of detail & stereo information I seem to be getting - things I look for more than most people I suppose.

I was PM'ing with Stan a little while ago & told him that for a good while this evening, I've been sitting on the sofa, not able to do all the things I'm supposed to be doing, because this system has really begun to do things I didn't think possible. I've been able to do some really critical listening and felt that this fairly humble system was really punching above it's weight. So I'm chuffed to bits with the DAC & Stan should be proud of his achievement - it's a truly remarkable product.

When we move to the new house, I'll be trying it out with all sorts of different combinations of gear & I'm actually almost afraid to see how it compares with the built in DAC in my Accuphase CD player!

Cheers Stan

Covenant
24-07-2009, 22:34
So I suppose you haven't tried any of the upgrades to the 7520 yet?
Lots of fun to be had there but you are as well to let the dac burn in for a while.

The Grand Wazoo
25-07-2009, 07:04
So I suppose you haven't tried any of the upgrades to the 7520 yet?
Nope

............but you are as well to let the dac burn in for a while.
Yup

jandl100
25-07-2009, 09:42
Don't be surprised if the Beresford DAC gives your Accuphase a run for its money.

I first discovered Stan's DACs back when they were at Mk.2. Even then, it was pretty damn obvious that something special was going on. Then along came the Mk.3, and I was hooked.

Every now and then I buy a 'proper' DAC - i.e. one that retails at multi-£k rather than a silly little toy at £100 -£200.

Audio Syntheses DAX Decade (£3.5k), Perpetual Technology 3-boxer (£1.8k), Musical Fidelity TriVista21 and A3.24 DACs (£1500 & £700?), the DAC aboard my old Esoteric AZ-1 digi-amp ... and quite a few more that don't come to mind at the moment ....

For up to quite a few months I think they are better - well, they must be, they cost more and have thick, sexy faceplates. But I always, always, come back to Stan's finest with a sense of musical relief and homecoming. I think that maybe I have learned my lesson now.

The better the digital cable, the better the sound, too. Well worth experimenting with that. I use Missing Link for its sense of natural musical flow, but others work well, too.
Oh, and the PSU as well, Maplins do one that works very well and boosts the sound quality noticably.

Your Accuphase is probably quaking in its boots! :lol:

Covenant
25-07-2009, 15:55
Just out of interest Jerry, which digital cable are you using at the moment? I changed from a Gotham to a Belden and was surprised at the difference. I use Sound Pipe interconnects so was thinking that a digital Sound Pipe would be the nextstep up.

Mike
25-07-2009, 18:07
Anybody want to try one of my digi cables?

Covenant
25-07-2009, 18:09
Yes please-can you give a few details? :)

jandl100
25-07-2009, 19:21
Just out of interest Jerry, which digital cable are you using at the moment? I changed from a Gotham to a Belden and was surprised at the difference. I use Sound Pipe interconnects so was thinking that a digital Sound Pipe would be the nextstep up.

Missing Link 'Dark Art' things, £75 for 0.5m but worth it. I'd expect you'd get a significant jump in sq going from Gotham or Belden (I have tried both of those and agree the Belden is better).

But not that far off the Missing Link is "Silver High Breed" i/c at £27 a pair - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SILVER-HIGH-BREED-Synergy-2i-Interconnects-1m-Pair-EXC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a4Q7 c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a2136Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a200QQ_trksid Zp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4147833496QQitemZ28037 2655254QQptZUKQ5fComputingQ5fCablesConnectorsQ5fRL QQsalenotsupported on eBay and ask the seller if he'll do a single run. It's a bit more 'obvious' and unsophisticated, but still good. It's also a fine analogue i/c - if a bit bright and forward.

I like NVA stuff as a rule, but haven't been impressed with the Sound Pipe line. Worth a try though, perhaps, with NVA's return policy.

Marco
25-07-2009, 19:27
Anybody want to try one of my digi cables?

Are those the ones that you were going to send me to try about three months ago? I'm still waiting!! :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

Gazjam
25-07-2009, 19:37
Just out of interest Jerry, which digital cable are you using at the moment? I changed from a Gotham to a Belden and was surprised at the difference. I use Sound Pipe interconnects so was thinking that a digital Sound Pipe would be the nextstep up.

I upgraded to teh NVA Sound piipe digi cable from the Belden and I found it to be a noticeable step up.

More of everything and more natural, less "etched" sounding.

I got mine as a trade, so even better!

DaveK
25-07-2009, 19:42
Anybody want to try one of my digi cables?

Count me in, if you would be interested in my opinion (cloth ears :) )
Cheers,

Labarum
25-07-2009, 19:44
I upgraded to teh NVA Sound piipe digi cable from the Belden and I found it to be a noticeable step up.

More of everything and more natural, less "etched" sounding.



<sceptical mode on>

Would that be an addition to your wanky wires or your non-wanky wires, Gaz?

<sceptical mode off>

Marco
25-07-2009, 19:48
I upgraded to teh NVA Sound piipe digi cable from the Belden and I found it to be a noticeable step up.

More of everything and more natural, less "etched" sounding.


Hi Gaz,

That's mad! It just goes to show how results vary from system to system with cables... :)

The Belden 1694A sounds anything but "etched" in my system - just extremely uncoloured and completely natural. In my experience, Mark Grant's cables exhibit the least sonic signature I've heard from any cable, but of course I haven't heard them all.

Marco.

Covenant
25-07-2009, 21:34
Missing Link 'Dark Art' things, £75 for 0.5m but worth it. I'd expect you'd get a significant jump in sq going from Gotham or Belden (I have tried both of those and agree the Belden is better).

But not that far off the Missing Link is "Silver High Breed" i/c at £27 a pair - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SILVER-HIGH-BREED-Synergy-2i-Interconnects-1m-Pair-EXC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a4Q7 c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a2136Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a200QQ_trksid Zp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4147833496QQitemZ28037 2655254QQptZUKQ5fComputingQ5fCablesConnectorsQ5fRL QQsalenotsupported on eBay and ask the seller if he'll do a single run. It's a bit more 'obvious' and unsophisticated, but still good. It's also a fine analogue i/c - if a bit bright and forward.

I like NVA stuff as a rule, but haven't been impressed with the Sound Pipe line. Worth a try though, perhaps, with NVA's return policy.
:doh: Why didnt I think of trying my silver high breed interconnects as digital interconnects before flogging them to Gaz?

Gazjam
25-07-2009, 22:16
Hi Gaz,

That's mad! It just goes to show how results vary from system to system with cables... :)

The Belden 1694A sounds anything but "etched" in my system - just extremely uncoloured and completely natural. In my experience, Mark Grant's cables exhibit the least sonic signature I've heard from any cable, but of course I haven't heard them all.

Marco.


The Belden's great, just a bit too "detail orientated" in my system.

Maybe its my tastes changin' duno, I'm more for a realistic less digital sound nowadays.

*Now to sell a kidney and buy that Gyrodeck I always drooled over...

Gazjam
25-07-2009, 22:28
<sceptical mode on>

Would that be an addition to your wanky wires or your non-wanky wires, Gaz?

<sceptical mode off>


I got the NVA for a trade (i.e. no money!) so it fits in the "non wanky" category Id say. :)
I was happy with the Belden by the way, best I'd heard up to that point.

The wanky wire I refer to is a Krystal kables Titan power lead. Seems to carry the leccy well to my amp and Maplin PSU for my Beresford? ;)*


*(Actually it makes an improvement ssshhhhh!)

Marco
26-07-2009, 06:54
Hi Gaz,


The Belden's great, just a bit too "detail orientated" in my system.

Maybe its my tastes changin' duno, I'm more for a realistic less digital sound nowadays.


No worries - what works for you, works for you :)

The Belden doesn't sound "detail orientated" or "digital" in my system... Like I said, it's just very natural in terms of its presentation with no perceived 'sound' whatsoever.

Just a couple of things, matey: did you buy the Belden cable from Mark Grant or somewhere else? And did you try using it both ways round? All cables are directional, including the Belden, so one way round will sound better and more 'correct' than the other...

The Belden doesn't have directional arrows marked on the cable, but in my experience it sounds best when the writing on the cable reads towards the source, rather than the opposite, away from the source, which is more usual :smoking:

Marco.

leo
26-07-2009, 15:10
Hi Gaz,



No worries - what works for you, works for you :)

The Belden doesn't sound "detail orientated" or "digital" in my system... Like I said, it's just very natural in terms of its presentation with no perceived 'sound' whatsoever.

Just a couple of things, matey: did you buy the Belden cable from Mark Grant or somewhere else? And did you try using it both ways round? All cables are directional, including the Belden, so one way round will sound better and more 'correct' than the other...

The Belden doesn't have directional arrows marked on the cable, but in my experience it sounds best when the writing on the cable reads towards the source, rather than the opposite, away from the source, which is more usual :smoking:

Marco.

Totally agree regarding directional, I've found with a few cables the direction can have a big enough effect to make or break the performance.
Considered BS by some (me included at first) until I tried it

The plugs and sockets for SPDIF are very important too especially in a revealing system

Gazjam
26-07-2009, 16:03
Hi Gaz,



No worries - what works for you, works for you :)

The Belden doesn't sound "detail orientated" or "digital" in my system... Like I said, it's just very natural in terms of its presentation with no perceived 'sound' whatsoever.

Just a couple of things, matey: did you buy the Belden cable from Mark Grant or somewhere else? And did you try using it both ways round? All cables are directional, including the Belden, so one way round will sound better and more 'correct' than the other...

The Belden doesn't have directional arrows marked on the cable, but in my experience it sounds best when the writing on the cable reads towards the source, rather than the opposite, away from the source, which is more usual :smoking:

Marco.

Hey Marco,

The Belden, it was a Mark Grant B-Stock 1m jobbie.
If theres writing on any cable I always assume the writing direction suggests the best flow of the cable so use it that way.

Not tried it the other way, will try that. Your systems more hi-res than mine and if it sounds "invisible" there it must be good.

Will try it, thanks for the tip. :)

Marco
26-07-2009, 16:40
Gaz,


If theres writing on any cable I always assume the writing direction suggests the best flow of the cable so use it that way.


As do I - and usually you'd be correct to do so :)

It's just I've found that the Belden digital cable sounds best when connected the other way - at least in my system it does. It might be different in yours; nothing is ever written in stone with these things :smoking:

It's funny because his interconnects (the type before the new ones which are now marked for directionality) sound best when connected with the writing going in the direction of the signal (as normal)...which proves, IMO, that the writing on the cable was put on any old way and had bugger all to do with directionality!

It's a good job I'm sad enough (or thorough, depending on how you choose to look at it :eyebrows:) to always listen to cables both ways before deciding on which way to finally use them :cool:

Anyway, try it and see what happens.

Marco.

Gazjam
26-07-2009, 17:35
Top tip, thanks for that.

(oh wise old sage)

Marco
26-07-2009, 17:44
No worries. What happened then? :)

Marco.

SteveW
26-07-2009, 17:45
Paying two lots of Council Tax & all the other things that we'll have to face mean that cash is still going to be a little tight for a while, so I needed a cheap solution.

Just a thought...don't know if the rules have changed...best ask your local MP for some advice here.. :doh:... But, when we lived abroad I remember that our property here was only liable for 50% of council tax as it wasn't our main residence.
This might well be the same for one of your properties.. could save yourself some dosh?

jandl100
27-07-2009, 07:19
Must admit that I, too, find the Belden too bright and upfront. Maybe it just suits Marco's headbanging inclinations! ;)

(No pussyfooting around with 'detail oriented' from me :lol: - the dang things are bright! I must be in one of my absolutist moods at the moment :)).

Marco
27-07-2009, 07:25
LOL. Bright my arse - the Belden is just highlighting the fact that your system is broken, with a capital 'B'! Fecked it is, my boy :lol: :eyebrows:

No "pussyfooting around" from me, either ;)

More seriously, did you try using it both ways round?

Marco.

Labarum
27-07-2009, 07:29
Ahhhhhhhhhhh - cables! On the analogue side they just act like tone controls, although those old tone controls did their job better; and in the digital domain, I don't know what they do.

Mike
27-07-2009, 07:56
Yes please-can you give a few details? :)

Hi Jerry, PM me with your address and I'll pop it in the post.


Are those the ones that you were going to send me to try about three months ago? I'm still waiting!! :eyebrows: ;)

Nope, I was going to send you an analogue pair but forgot about it, sorry. I'll get right on it! ;)

Actually, you try could one as a digi cable to see what it's like. It should be shit, but you never know! :lol:


Count me in, if you would be interested in my opinion (cloth ears :) )
Cheers,

Sure, just ask Jerry to forward it on to you once he's done with it.

Cheers...

Marco
27-07-2009, 08:00
Nope, I was going to send you an analogue pair but forgot about it, sorry. I'll get right on it!


Ah, no worries, Mikey... I look forward to trying them when they arrive :)

I've already tried your digital cable, I think, and found it to be pretty good :cool:

Marco.

Gazjam
27-07-2009, 08:45
Just a thought...don't know if the rules have changed...best ask your local MP for some advice here.. :doh:... But, when we lived abroad I remember that our property here was only liable for 50% of council tax as it wasn't our main residence.
This might well be the same for one of your properties.. could save yourself some dosh?

Whoa...

that was a bit random. :)

Marco
27-07-2009, 09:07
Oi, Gaz, have you tried the Belden the other way round yet? Come on, we're all dying to know! :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

Gazjam
27-07-2009, 12:22
Hi Marco.

Yup tried it, thanks. :)

Marco
27-07-2009, 12:27
And ????

Bloody hell, it's like getting blood out a stone!!! :lol:

C'mon, 'fess up!

Marco.

Gazjam
27-07-2009, 12:56
:)

You know what?

I think your right Marco.
Swapped cable over last night from NVA to the backwards Belden and it was an obvious change in the "type" of sound I was getting.

First impressions listening to some Phillip Glass/ Vangelis stuff it was obvious there was a lot less bass than the NVA. I mean...Wheres the bass gone? kind of less.
Flicked on some Chemical Brothers (D E E P Bass) and yup, the bottom end was missing.

What WAS better though, and this is significant, was that the sound was SMOOTHER and more open than the NVA...

I had previously found the Belden a bit too bright and digital sounding. Not this. It was actually easier to "hear through" the recording than it was before, which suggests to me more transparency and less getting in the way of the signal my Squeezebox was putting out.

Hmnn, INTERESTING I thought.
"I'll leave it running overnight see what happens in the morning.

The bass is back. Not as deep as I remember the NVA having, but its back.
Its certainly not showing any of the "glare" I felt I had before, its sounding smoother now, but just as (actually more..) clearer than it was before.

Any bass shortcomings COULD be down to my choice of OpAmp in my 7520 (4562 with MCL6/6 mod) as I thought it had less bass than the 4032...so dont take what I said as gospel.

Perhaps the Beldens standing less in the way of connecting my transport to my Dac, hence showing up the bass lightness I thought I heard when changing Op Amps?
Who knows, but its possible.

Anyways, usual sanity check procedures will apply, going to keep the belden in for a week then swap back the NVA and give my immediate impressions.

My Dacs getting a heart transplant soon, and I'll test then if the Belden's a "more open window" compared to the NVA.

I thought I'd finished fannying around with cables (got my fit 'n forget interconnect and speaker cable) but thanks to Marco, the Digi cables up in the air again.:doh:

"Cheers" mate!

Actually, ta for the top tip, wouldn't have thought of swapping the cable over.

I *DID* do that with the NVA and found it was better one way over the other....I had kinda discounted the Belden I guess.


*EDIT*
I'm finding now the bass is definately improving. I'm finding myself less inclined to flick between songs than I remember doing...maybe down to better timing or clarity? Dunno but its all good.

Marco
27-07-2009, 13:21
Nice one, Gaz, and thanks for being so honest :)

Sorry to 'upset' things, but I felt that it was important to point out my experience with the Belden just in case it helped you come to the right conclusion, which looks like what has happened :cool:

The effects of cables will always vary from system to system, but (extensive) experience suggests that the Belden 1694A is one of the most transparent digital cables on the market. The same can also be said for Mark Grant's analogue interconnects.

If you haven't tried those, you should do, as they synergise very nicely with the Belden digital cable.

Keep us posted on developments, matey.

Marco.

Gazjam
27-07-2009, 13:57
I've got the Belden interconnects....the Canare LV61S ones?

Again, I'd heard better than these cables but they WERE good.
Just a bit MEH if I remember right.

After the Belden cable swaparound though, I'm thinking I haven't tried them back to front. ;)

Marco
27-07-2009, 15:52
Hi Gaz,

No, mate, I mean his own branded designs that he's just produced. They are quite superb and better than any other cables I've ever used. I think he's currently waiting on more stock, but you can PM him for details :)

Certainly try the cables you have both ways round, though, like you did with the digital ones.

Marco.

Gazjam
27-07-2009, 18:14
I checked marks website, only see the canard ones Marco.

Got a link to the new ones?
I'm going to ask mark if I can have a loaner pair just to compare against my Hitatchi's.
If they are better Id be up for posting a full online review (slut that I am)!

Marco
27-07-2009, 18:21
They're not on his website, Gaz. You'll have to PM him to find out if he's got any available for you to try. Mention that it's the ones he sent me last time with his name on the cable :)

Amongst other things he's developed better crimping techniques, resulting in truly fantastic cables, which simply relay the signal given with the absolute minimal of 'adulteration'. I NEVER use cables as tone controls!

Marco.

Mike
27-07-2009, 23:08
Amongst other things he's developed better crimping techniques

:nocomment:

Marco
28-07-2009, 06:11
LOL. Why no comment? Tell us what you think :)

I can tell you that crimping (correctly done) makes quite a difference! ;)

Marco.

jandl100
28-07-2009, 09:22
Ah - OK - turn the Belden digi round? I'll give that a try.

... I realise now why you didn't post this on a certain other forum! :lol:

Marco
28-07-2009, 10:03
Why not, Jerry, there's nowt to lose... It might make bugger all difference in your system or it could be worse or better - one can never truly predict these things :smoking:

Remember to let it burn-in for a while the way you're using it now before you come to a definitive conclusion, just like Gaz did :)

Marco.

Marco
28-07-2009, 10:50
... I realise now why you didn't post this on a certain other forum! :lol:


OMG... Nothing against Wigwam, but reading all that never-ending subjectivist/objectivist point-scoring bollocks brings home with a big thud why we started up AOS (to get away from all that shit)!! :mental:

Marco.

Mike
28-07-2009, 11:17
LOL. Why no comment? Tell us what you think :)

I can tell you that crimping (correctly done) makes quite a difference! ;)

Marco.

Nothing at all wrong with crimping! :)

It's the technique bit that doesn't really make sense. You just squeeze the crimping tool and, err, thats it! ;)

Gazjam
28-07-2009, 11:21
Ah - OK - turn the Belden digi round? I'll give that a try.

... I realise now why you didn't post this on a certain other forum! :lol:


I dont find its as bad as it used to be, James seems to be clamping (or crimping ;)) down on all that crap.

The old cable wars still come up now and again, but hey - who cares right? :)

its all good.


Oh, getting my Beresford "Caimanised", should be back by end of week.
Should be good.

Think I'll try putting the plug fuses in backwards, see how that goes.


What do you think Marco? ;) (I'll try anything once, sometimes twice)

StanleyB
28-07-2009, 12:39
Think I'll try putting the plug fuses in backwards, see how that goes.


What do you think Marco? ;) (I'll try anything once, sometimes twice)
I'll stick to 'plug to socket' if you don't mind...

STan

trailer
28-07-2009, 16:58
OMG... Nothing against Wigwam, but reading all that never-ending subjectivist/objectivist point-scoring bollocks brings home with a big thud why we started up AOS (to get away from all that shit)!! :mental:

Marco.

That's the reason I rarely venture in there now. There's a thread on the Naim HDX which was up to 1000 posts generally dissing it and no one had actually heard it. Far out.

Gazjam
28-07-2009, 17:28
I'm getting a roasting in there right now, for mentioning the Belden cable. :)
Lots of LOLs and pictures of deformed people, you know - the usual.

Heard the same stuff time and time again :mental:

Nowt more from me on the subject over there.
too much schadenfreude.

Marco
28-07-2009, 22:53
Hi Gaz,

Worry not... The most important thing is that you've heard a marked improvement in your system with your own ears - that's all that matters :)

I'd be intrigued to know what Jerry's found from swapping the Belden round the other way :cool:

Marco.

Gazjam
29-07-2009, 00:44
Hi Gaz,

Worry not... The most important thing is that you've heard a marked improvement in your system with your own ears - that's all that matters :)

I'd be intrigued to know what Jerry's found from swapping the Belden round the other way :cool:

Marco.


naa...no worries at all. :)

I posted it over there to see if it would get any kind of reasoned debate.
Silly bugger, what was I thinking? :doh:

The Grand Wazoo
30-07-2009, 22:10
Well, I know the forum is subject to a certain amount of wonky thread-ism, but I never imagined that my ode to Stan would turn into a discussion of cable directionality!

Back to the DAC for a mo', if you please. Tonight, for the first time I started getting the sense that the soundstage has opened up way beyond the boundaries of the speakers.

On some recordings, I'm getting some sounds from about 24" to the left & right of each speaker & the height of the image is growing too. This is really making me grin a lot because I hold these things as being very important qualities of a decent system. That's why, despite admiring some aspects of the presentation provided by Linn/Naim gear, I never felt moved to buy any - if you took friend Ivor's thoughts on soundstages to their logical conclusion, you would wonder why he sold speakers in pairs!! (Though I didn't hand over any cash for them, my copybook was blotted by an LVX for a short while & a CDI for a long while!).

The sense of the recording environment's acoustics are also really begining to become more apparent too.

All of this detail is making me froth at the mouth in anticipation of hearing what it will do as a headphone amp because my Grado SR325's (120 miles away at the moment) major in picking out the fine details of a recording almost to a fault.

I imagine I'll be selling my HFN/RR Headcase with upgraded pot (to a Sfernice) fairly soon...........if anyone's interested.

DaveK
30-07-2009, 22:25
I imagine I'll be selling my HFN/RR Headcase with upgraded pot (to a Sfernice) fairly soon...........if anyone's interested.

Which is what, exactly? :scratch::scratch::scratch:
Cheers,

leo
30-07-2009, 22:34
Which is what, exactly? :scratch::scratch::scratch:
Cheers,

Is it one of those long black square things? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/ugliest-headphone-amp-planet-155990/

DaveK
30-07-2009, 22:52
Is it one of those long black square things? http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/ugliest-headphone-amp-planet-155990/

Thanks Leo - just lost interest :lol: - I'll stick with my mod'd 7520 ;) - sorry Chris :).
Cheers,

The Grand Wazoo
30-07-2009, 22:56
Which is what, exactly?


Is it one of those long black square things? [url]

That's the kiddy!

It's actually a very good headphone amp. I think it may be a Tim de P design.

The website you linked to actually over-egged the aesthetics pudding a bit! The HFN/RR products were linked to the Moth company & the casing is the same as the one they built the Moth power amps into. It's a black Ash outer casing. The one in the photos has a power switch added that was not standard - it's better sounding when left on all the time. It's designed to hook into the tape loop of your amp, but I use it plugged straight into the output of my pre-amp with no return interconnects into the tape-in.

The Sfernice was a big upgrade & I replaced the volume knob with something a little less obvious !!

The Grand Wazoo
30-07-2009, 23:21
A little more on the Headcase:

The thread that was posted to develops into this -

1)..........it was designed by Tim de Paravicini and the circuit is apparently closely based on the Musical Fidelity A1 amplifier which Tim also developed.


2)...........Communication with the designer - Tim De Paravicini (I guess I remembered correctly then)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few words from the designer of this amp, Tim De Paravicini:

Me: I recently bought a Hi-Fi news "headcase" HFN-009 headphone amplifier which I believe you designed?

Tim: Correct.

Me: I totally stripped the board and have replaced the carbon film resistors with metal film types and replaced the original capacitors with low ESR types, it sounds pretty damned good but I'm sure there's a bit more performance to be squeezed out of it and wonder if you, 20 years after designing it, have any little tips or tweaks up your sleeve which I could apply to the headcase? The volco positioned adjacent to the phono sockets is a very good idea and I wish more designers would implement this idea, it keeps the PSU separate from the amp proper and the connecting rod just adds a touch of peculiarity to the amp.

Tim: Not peculiar, Just very logical!

Me: Checked the DC offset at the output and it was pretty large (267mV & -78mV respectively) so I decided to fit 1000uF output caps in series with the output to null any offset present on the output. I also fitted an extra 4400uF capacitance to the PSU section which made a slight improvement especially to the dynamics and general "drive" of the amp.

Tim: As to offset, this is due to the opamp. Do not put output caps in, as this does effect the sound. 20 mV is more than good enough. See next comment.

Me: I'm not too sure if it's a good idea to remove the 120 ohm output resistors and replace them with zero ohm links, what do you think? I know 120 ohm was industry standard 20 years ago but many amp designers seems to think zero impedance is the best way to go, your comments appreciated.

Tim: The 120 Ohm is there for a good reason. This is so that virtually all dynamic headphones with impedances from 8 to 600 Ohm have similar volume levels and to prevent serious overdriving of low impedance types with serious hearing loss and damage to the drivers. Also the amplifier operating on about plus minus 10 volt (if memory serves me) does not have the current ability to drive full voltage into 8 Ohms of about 12 watts. The 120 Ohm limits the power to a few tens of milliwatts. Do you see my point?

Me: Could you possibly tell me what function the TL082 opamp undertakes and if there are any better modern chips I could use in its place? I have literally hundreds of assorted dual chips but won't roll them in just for the sake of it unless I'm doing the amp any justice.

Tim: The TL082 was cost effective, likewise the carbon film resistors. If the unit had been another £100, would you have purchased it? I doubt it. The OPA2134 would be best in current times. did not exist 20 years ago. This is history you know. Hindsight is wonderful. Once I have completed a design I move on to the next thing, In all my 40 plus years there are lots of product out there. Everybody thinks they know more than me but reinventing the wheel is tough. I don't have a copy of the circuit, sorry about that.

Sincerely yours, Tim de Paravicini.

What a nice man! I hope this information will be of use to any fellow Headcase owners out there.

Mike.


3).........And then there's this:

Sounds incredible too, best I have ever heard bar none this is a definite keeper.

4)...........And this............

If you see one of these on ebay guys.... GRAB IT. "Headcase HF009"

EDIT: This is the first headphone amp that has made me want to dance Honestly, it's just totally out of it

Chippy_boy
24-08-2009, 18:47
Totally agree regarding directional, I've found with a few cables the direction can have a big enough effect to make or break the performance.
Considered BS by some (me included at first) until I tried it


I don't doubt your sincerity in saying that, but I do seriously question whether it's correct.

I would defy anyone to be able to tell which way round a cable was in a proper, scientifically conducted double-blind test.

There's no physics that can support such a wacky idea and I really don't think audiophiles have stumbled upon some as yet undiscovered physical phenomenon. Turning a cable around and saying "ooh that does sound better" just doesn't cut it as a proof!

Sorry, I just don't believe it.

Cheers anyway :-)

Chippy
BSc Hons (Physics)

trailer
24-08-2009, 19:03
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-21395.html

For your perusal

trailer

Phd (Google)

Marco
24-08-2009, 19:03
Hi Chippy,

What's your real first name and where are you from?

Could you please pop into the Welcome area and introduce yourself and your system to the membership. This is something we ask of all our new members :)

Cheers!

Marco.

Steve Toy
25-08-2009, 00:14
Chippy boy,

Read the ethos (and weep.)

This is a subjectivist forum. That means trust your ears and report back. Notice a certain consistency of findings.

Now, you've observed the phenonena, or if you haven't, look to your setup, observing the physics of microphony along the way.

From this point you are free to lend us a theoretical reasoning to back your observations.

This is how science is meant to work.

It begins and ends with an enquiring mind - explore the question - how does that happen?

Are you a true scientist with an enquiring mind coupled to discerning ears or are you are technical jobsworth?

During your degree, did you grapple with the concept of empiricism?

SteveW
25-08-2009, 13:28
To paraphrase Stan Boardman... Steve bombed the Chippy.

Chippy_boy
26-08-2009, 10:47
Chippy boy,

Read the ethos (and weep.)

This is a subjectivist forum. That means trust your ears and report back. Notice a certain consistency of findings.

Now, you've observed the phenonena, or if you haven't, look to your setup, observing the physics of microphony along the way.

From this point you are free to lend us a theoretical reasoning to back your observations.

This is how science is meant to work.

It begins and ends with an enquiring mind - explore the question - how does that happen?

Are you a true scientist with an enquiring mind coupled to discerning ears or are you are technical jobsworth?

During your degree, did you grapple with the concept of empiricism?

Hello Steve,

You could say all of the above about ghosts, ufo's, telepathy, soothsaying etc.

I would argue I *do* have a very enquiring mind. I could play devils advocate and suggest maybe others here do not.

If the perceived wisdom - as seems to be the case on this forum - is that cables and cable directionality make a difference, the un-enquiring mind goes along with that, *especially* if he or she believes they hear similar.

The enquiring mind however, says I am not so sure. Could there be other explanations, placebo or otherise? If any effect is real and noticeable, can we test it by doing blind tests? These are not the thoughts of someone with a closed mind - quite the contrary. I would love to see scientific tests (and I should stress, I dont mean measurements: I mean people sitting in rooms and being played music with different cables and being asked to identify which is which etc.) that conclusively proved this stuff.

It really puzzles me as to why such a contentious subject does not seem to have such empirical evidence (to use your term!) to conclusively support it. No more than there is conclusive evidence for UFO's. And whilst I would argue we are still in the realms of relying on the word of people who swear they have seen a ghost, there's bound to be skepticism, isn't there.

I hope you don't mind my standing my ground. I regard this as healthy (and enjoyable) argument and debate, hopefully leading to a better understanding. I trust that is what these forums are all about!

Chippy_boy
26-08-2009, 10:47
To paraphrase Stan Boardman... Steve bombed the Chippy.

I think not mate.

trailer
26-08-2009, 11:00
Hello Steve,

You could say all of the above about ghosts, ufo's, telepathy, soothsaying etc.

I would argue I *do* have a very enquiring mind. I could play devils advocate and suggest maybe others here do not.

If the perceived wisdom - as seems to be the case on this forum - is that cables and cable directionality make a difference, the un-enquiring mind goes along with that, *especially* if he or she believes they hear similar.

The enquiring mind however, says I am not so sure. Could there be other explanations, placebo or otherise? If any effect is real and noticeable, can we test it by doing blind tests? These are not the thoughts of someone with a closed mind - quite the contrary. I would love to see scientific tests (and I should stress, I dont mean measurements: I mean people sitting in rooms and being played music with different cables and being asked to identify which is which etc.) that conclusively proved this stuff.

It really puzzles me as to why such a contentious subject does not seem to have such empirical evidence (to use your term!) to conclusively support it. No more than there is conclusive evidence for UFO's. And whilst I would argue we are still in the realms of relying on the word of people who swear they have seen a ghost, there's bound to be skepticism, isn't there.

I hope you don't mind my standing my ground. I regard this as healthy (and enjoyable) argument and debate, hopefully leading to a better understanding. I trust that is what these forums are all about!

You've missed the BSc Hons (Physics) off of your signature.

StanleyB
26-08-2009, 11:10
You guys should stop being so pedantic. It negatively affects the image of my DAC and the kind of people I mix with on forums.

Stan

Joe
26-08-2009, 11:49
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-21395.html

For your perusal

trailer

Phd (Google)

And, indeed

http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22779

for your further perusalment

Chippy_boy
26-08-2009, 12:26
You've missed the BSc Hons (Physics) off of your signature.

Sorry, I don't understand your point?

@Stan - how so Stan? Are you kidding or being serious. Your fine product is completely untarnished in my eyes!

Chippy_boy
26-08-2009, 13:17
To the OP of this thread, my sincere apologies for wading so far off topic. Don't know what came over me.

As this is the Stan's fans thread, I would like to once more proclaim my unreserved enthusiasm for my new Caiman DAC. It's a truly marvellous bit of kit, which every way around I attach the cables :lolsign:

leo
29-08-2009, 07:37
I don't doubt your sincerity in saying that, but I do seriously question whether it's correct.

I would defy anyone to be able to tell which way round a cable was in a proper, scientifically conducted double-blind test.

There's no physics that can support such a wacky idea and I really don't think audiophiles have stumbled upon some as yet undiscovered physical phenomenon. Turning a cable around and saying "ooh that does sound better" just doesn't cut it as a proof!

Sorry, I just don't believe it.

Cheers anyway :-)

Chippy




BSc Hons (Physics)

Just back off hol so sorry for late response

I used to dismiss such things like this but now learned to keep an open mind and only comment on claimed snake oil tweaks if I've tried it myself ;) Being a free thing I decided to try it with a pair of Belden CT-100 based IC's I use, believe what you like but the difference was enough to now make me take the extra few minutes of comparing any new cables added to the system.

BTW, the only thing I can think of is if its the way the shielding has been braided , if this is true or not, I don't give a shit tbh:lol:

Chippy_boy
29-08-2009, 16:09
I used to dismiss such things like this but now learned to keep an open mind and only comment on claimed snake oil tweaks if I've tried it myself ;)

Yeah, me too!