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View Full Version : The Ecofan Sound Triode 2000 amplifiers and John Blue JB4 mk2 speakers.



Spectral Morn
23-07-2009, 21:24
Timing in life is everything and quite often its less than ideal, such is the case here. I promised a review of the Ecofan 2A3 valve power amplifier quite some time ago, just after my original 6A3 Ecofan Sound power amplifier and matching pre-amplifier review, and now when I am able to do that I can't do full justice to it as I could have done originally. The missing factor in this case of timing is the absence of the Ecofan Sound, 2 input 6SN7, 6N7 pre-amplifier which I used for the original Ecofan review. This pre-amplifier despite its small stature is a massive sonic performer and obviously designed to match Ecofan power amplifiers. The best I could do to fill the gap was a Balanced Audio Technology(BAT from now on) VK300 se integrated using its pre out stage and later the BAT VK3I pre-amplifier (the later being a better match, perhaps because its an all valve pre and not a hybrid like the VK300 se).

The Ecofan Triode 2000 is a two chassis separate power supply mono valve amplifier rated at about 5 watts per channel, from a few years ago(this is not a current design and as far as I know is out of production). The separate power supply (PSU) is a massive affair relative to the two mono amps. It has two power cord umbilical cables which connect to the power amplifiers via very old fashioned connectors think Leak TL20 valve base sockets and connectors; a green led and traditionally old fashioned Ecofan flip switch brings the amps to life. Build quality is good but simple, as is the case with all the Ecofan sound products I have reviewed so far. The back panel has a single RCA input and an additional output, the function of which I am not sure. Binding posts are simple brass items resembling a threaded brass rod with nut at the end (what it is in fact). Bare wire and spades are the order of the day not banana plugs for connecting your speakers, the transformer outputs are 6 and 8 ohm, with 8 offering the best sound and match for the speakers used.

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The first problem encountered was a flash in the right channel's 2A3 tube on switch on. It would flare up at the top and a loud thud would come out of the right speaker, however no massive flash, bang or wallop would follow and the valve would settle down; with only a little extra hum in that channel compared to the left amplifier. These amplifiers being class A, run very hot as does the power supply so plenty of ventilation was required.

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The system used as before with the other Ecofan Sound products was my upstairs set up, one for continuity and that the Reference 3A Dulcets are the only speakers I have that will work on the end of a low power valve amplifier; at least that has been the case in the past; would that be the case with the Triode 2000 ? The rest of the system used was a AMR CD77, BAT VK300se (as pre), BAT VK3I pre-amplifier. Cabling used was Audience Au24 RCA to RCA between pre and power and CD player, speaker cable XLO Type 6 terminated with spades, this is a single wired cable.

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Music used was Nitin Swhney-Beyond Skin, Yello-Stella, Nightmares on Wax-Car-Boot Soul, Al Di Meola-Tiramisu.
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Before listening began I gave the amplifiers about an hour of warm up, when returning to the listening room the air was toasty, using valve amps in a tiny upstairs room in the summer is not recommended. They say that any true artist should sweet for their art I can assure you I lost plenty of it during the time I listened to these class A amplifiers. The one thing which bothered me a bit was in order to get enough gain, I had to turn the volume pots on the Triode 2000 to full, this sadly raised the noise levels up to the point that I could hear it from my listening chair. This noise was mostly absent when listening to music and only some times could I hear it during quieter passages. A less than ideal start the main thought running through my head was if only I had the Ecofan pre.

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First up was Yello and their album Stella. I listened to the first few tracks Desire, Vicious Games and Oh Yeah, something was wrong. The mid and treble was very good but the lower mid and bass was wrong. This album is normally tonally rich, but instead it was lacking weight and scale, it wasn't bright but it was lacking. Oh Yeah made it very clear that things were really off. This track made famous for its use in the film Secret of my Success, is usually dynamic, punchy and sumptuously sleazy. The vocal element lacked body and thus didn't carry the track as it normally does, if you know this piece of music you will know how vital this voice is to it.

I switched to Nitin Sawhney's excellent album Beyond Skin a newer recording and a slightly louder one. This factor alone some times helps, what I feared was a bad match between either my speakers or the BAT VK300 se. The original Ecofan power amplifier with its own pre had driven my Ref 3a Dulcets quite well, the smaller room helping no doubt, but without this pre I just wasn't sure what the source of the problem was.

I played a few tracks of the Nightmares on wax album Car Boot Soul. This is a very well recorded album of chill out and more up tempo tracks and I jumped straight to Les Nuits and at first it sounded much as I would expect; open, spacey, and dreamily sumptuous with excellent clarity (an Ecofan Sound trade mark) and dynamics. The haunting track moves along driven by a deep bass line and percussion, the decay of cymbal strikes was very good as was the female vocal that comes into the track about half way through. I was also aware of a slight increase in thickness of bass notes, they were almost boomy, but overall the sound was very good indeed. This recording indeed the entire album has a louder level than the Yello album being newer and having a bit more volume (though not to much dynamic compression). After playing Jorge`, this tracks excellent bass was a bit more bloated than normal, but the rest of the reproduction was fantastic.

Like Car Boot Soul, Nitin Sawhney's-Beyond Skin album also is louder than Yello, and again after listening to a number of tracks from it namely Beyond Skin, Letting Go, The Pilgrim and Tides, the lower frequencies were still not right, so a speaker swap was required. Normally this would not have been possible, but on the off chance there might have been issues (with speaker sensitivity)Francis had brought his John Blue JB4 mk2 speakers. At this point I must be honest I have a prejudice towards the John Blue JB4 mk2 speakers, this is not based on hearing them before and not liking them, but on reading a couple of bad reviews and not having yet heard a single driver speaker that I have liked.

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The John Blue's are described thus,“The JB4 Mk2 is John Blue Audio's top-of-the-line full-range bookshelf speakers. Its enclosure is crafted using 24mm thick high-pressure bonded MDF. Thanks to its proprietary internal honeycomb structure, no fiber is needed internally for damping. This allows for an extremely transparent delivery. Innovative enclosure design allows the driver to radiate sound from the enclosure edge and give it a horn effect. Musical and clean, with a tight punchy bottom end, the JB4 Mk2 has an uncanny ability to 'disappear' and easily rivals the LS3/5A.
Each pair of the JB4 Mk2 is fully laminated with a solid cherry wood veneer and hand buffed to achieve a low-sheen, subtle shine. Specifications:Wiring: All internal wiring are done with pure, solid copper. Driver: 4 inch full range driver with special resin cast waveguide, anti-fungus treated paper cone; pioneered and developed by John Blue. Efficiency: 89dB / W / m Impedance: 6 Ohm Max power: 30W Dimensions: H x W x D: 305 x 200 x 270mm: Weight: 9.5kg / each “
Or so the Internet blurb states. As sensitivity was better than the Ref3A's I own (and this design is in its own way as simple as the Dulcets) I thought it was worth trying them....reluctantly though.
Sound levels from them were better, but oh boy was the sound horrible, bright, forward, shout y, lacking in bass, coherence a total disaster, this was near enough the worst sound I have ever had in this room. Having played around with a few single driver speakers before such as the Arousal A1 and a pair of Gem's, I knew that positioning was critical; speaker positioning is always critical, but in my experience(all be it limited experience) more so with single driver speakers. I toed the JB4's in severlywith the axis just crossing in front of my face, the sound improved dramatically, however while this was much better, it was still wrong. The sound was still somewhat in your face, strident and forward, but the frequency suck-out in the upper and lower mid had mostly filled out. I suspect that positioning closer to the rooms corners and back wall might be more ideal but in my upstairs room this is just not possible, so I could not try this. Despite the fact that the sound I was getting was not ideal and issues still existed I continued listening to try and get more of a handle on these problems.

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After awhile I deiced to add a wee bit more toe in, so that I could just see the outside edges of the speakers if I moved my head slightly to the right or left. That final tweak resulted in the whole sound clicking, coherence and imaging snapped into focus and the bass improved. The forwardness and brightness reduced and while still somewhat lively the treble was sweeter. I continued listening and was aware now how much extra noise the JB4 speakers were revealing, it was still clear that things were still not right.

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I changed the pre-amplifier over to the BAT VK3i pre which has a lot more gain than the VK300se, this extra output voltage allowed me to reduce the volume settings on the Triode 2000s by half and thus reduce the audibility of the noise that had been annoyingly obvious before, though not as obvious when using the Ref3A speakers.

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Because of the extreme set up angle of the JB4's the soundstage was not as wide for the most part as it is with the Dulcets, however depth and height of image and focus were very good; no doubt an advantaged conferred by the JB4's single driver.

I played Nightmares on Wax again and the track Argha Noah. The sound had power, bass, delicacy, good soundstaging, in fact the imaging was pin point as mentioned earlier one of the benefits of a point source design. The following track Fire in the middle was also very good, this realitve success had me reaching for Nitin Sawhney again, which had been a flop earlier, would this still be the case now ?

Well not totally, but the vocal on Broken Skin sounded a bit thin and lacking in body as did the next tracks vocals, Letting Go, which also showed this oddity on the female voice, there still seemed to be a frequencies suck out. The male singer on the track Home Lands was also not right, compared to how it normally is. Vocals were a paper cut out of themselves rather than their normal solid reality. This problem/colouration rendered vocals with a nasal quality, this was not so obvious on electronic instruments, but with the piano on Tides and real human voices it was, and to my ears was totally unacceptable. It may be the case that positioned ideally, that the John Blue speakers are a very good example of their type, but not for me and this room so I put the Ref 3A speakers back into action, hopeful that decision with the BAT pre-amplifier in the set up now, would mean that I could finally hear the EcoFan Sound amplifiers properly, after all they are the main focus of this review.

With the Dulcets back in play, the full extent of the problems with JB4 mk2's were revealed. Firstly the addition of the BAT pre, now meant that the Ecofan Triode 2000's didn't sound strained, bass was a smidge looser than normal, or as I recall even with the previous single chassis Ecofan power amplifier, but other than that the sound was now fully Ecofan, great clarity, purity, delicacy and presence and with the trade mark “thereness”, which Murray's designs have all so far had. All of these elements were also accompanied by excellent detail retrieval, soundstaging, imaging and music flowed from the speakers, something this set up had struggled to do with the JB4's.

Revisiting all the music I had already listened to, I was also forced to come to the conclusion, that while the sound was now almost all the way there, that perhaps, and again the absence of the matching Ecofan pre raises questions, the Ref 3A speakers are less of a good match with the Triode 2000's than the previously successful Ecofan 6A3; all be it that matching was also not 100% right either.

Just before finishing the listening session I also played my favorite Al Di Meola album Tiramisu, this was pure magic, the ebb and flow of the music, with its Latin tinged, mixture of Jazz and Rock had me tapping my feet and bobbing my head along. So good was it that I listened to most of the stand out tracks all the way through, including, Beijing Demons, Song to the Pharaoh Kings and Maruba.

As a final track I revisited Yello and Oh Yeah, the voice had its sleazy weight back and sounded very good, the slightly reduced volume level didn't cause any issues at all and I stopped the disc with a smile on my face.

Originally this write up was only to be about the Ecofan Sound Triode 2000 2A3 mono amplifiers, and the fact that it also became about the John Blue JB4 mk2's, pre-amplifier and power amplifier matching only goes to show that system/room/amplifier synergy is one of the most important aspects of putting an audio system together get any part wrong and you are on a hiding to know where. There is more to be had with the Triode 2000's with perhaps an Ecofan pre and speakers that suit the lower power of the 2A3 valve as implemented in this design, of that I am sure, I know that this review was less than ideal, so it is hard for me to be sure that with a more optimal set up I would prefer these amps to the previous 6A3 Ecofan amplifier, but until I can revisit those items, I feel that the previous power amplifier suited this system and my ears better. There is no doubt that the Triode 2000 is a Murray Dick design, all the sonic signatures are there and if you come across it, you should crab a listen, as you should any Ecofan Sound product ultimately you wont be disappointed but system matching in all things is critical.

The John Blue speakers are not on this showing for me, however they worked much better than any other set of single driver speakers I have heard in my home, but whether it was the room, positioning, stands or some other factor at play my gut feeling is even set up as optimally as possible I don't think these are for me, they may though be for you, so get a listen and see what you think.

Thanks go to Francis for the loan of the Triode 2000 amplifiers and John Blue speakers.

Regards D S D L

Edit No part of this review can be reproduced without written permission...content is copyrighted to...NK

aquapiranha
24-07-2009, 09:44
Another fantastic review Neil. You don't half get to play with some lovely kit!

Steve

Spectral Morn
24-07-2009, 11:45
Another fantastic review Neil. You don't half get to play with some lovely kit!

Steve

Thanks Steve.


I am lucky/blessed to have made some good friends while in the trade, most of them being ex-customers, such as Francis; who knows a lot about valves and has himself had a chance to play around with the Ecofan Sound products(as well as owning some). He has very kindly allowed me to hear them in my own systems and write about them. Once again thank you Francis for the loans of your gear.


Regards D S D L

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
24-07-2009, 15:50
Hi Neil

As usual, very well written. Enjoyed it greatly.

I would rather read your reviews than most of the mags anyday.

keep this sort of thing coming.

Andy - SDDW

Marco
24-07-2009, 16:05
Quality as usual, Daphne. The contents of your reviews are almost as desirable as those of your wardrobe! :lol: :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

Giant Haystacks
25-07-2009, 02:27
dear dalek i have ecofan pre and 6a3 coming your way shortly for long loan to you ,and other goodies also on reels ,it is definately hard to get the single driver right one of the worst sounds i heard was at a showin dublin with single driver and i had read hifi plus go on about this mans equiptment non stop . you reviews are unbiased and try very hard thanks dalek il bring a few records to as you could do with a few more

John
25-07-2009, 05:31
Great review I love the way you write Neil

Spectral Morn
25-07-2009, 06:49
dear dalek i have ecofan pre and 6a3 coming your way shortly for long loan to you ,and other goodies also on reels ,it is definately hard to get the single driver right one of the worst sounds i heard was at a showin dublin with single driver and i had read hifi plus go on about this mans equiptment non stop . you reviews are unbiased and try very hard thanks dalek il bring a few records to as you could do with a few more

Hi Francis


Sounds good, I am not in today, Saturday, but during the weeks fine. The presence of the pre with the Triode 2000's would be of great help.


Hi John

Thank you, I do my best.

Hi Andy

Thank you very much for your kind words.

Hi Marco

What lies behind your wee white door puts my modest collection to shame....;):lol::lol::lol::lol:.


Regards D S D L

Jack Williams
30-07-2009, 08:36
Thanks for the kind remarks on the Millennium model. Getting the Ecofan Line amp on it should be interesting. It was originally thought of as not needing a preamp at all. The other output on the back is for a bass amp, with 6db adjustable (underneath) crossover. I don't think anyone uses it though.I will be more active on the site from here on in. Keep up the good work guys!

Spectral Morn
30-07-2009, 09:30
Thanks for the kind remarks on the Millennium model. Getting the Ecofan Line amp on it should be interesting. It was originally thought of as not needing a preamp at all. The other output on the back is for a bass amp, with 6db adjustable (underneath) crossover. I don't think anyone uses it though.I will be more active on the site from here on in. Keep up the good work guys!


No problem JW, having you more active will be a good thing :).

I wanted to keep the review system as similar as I could (to the 6A3 write up) so hence not using the Triode 2000 without a pre-amplifier. I will try them without a pre.


Regards D S D L

Jack Williams
01-08-2009, 07:14
I was surprised the Triode 2000 amp didn't do such a good job on the JB4s as Francis reckoned the Triode 6A3 amp worked well on them at...... Although while similar amps, there are some differences in the way the octal valves react in this direct coupled circuit from the miniature ones, and that might make all the difference. I got better bass, and a "bigger sound" from the octal ones.

Jack Williams
17-11-2012, 23:02
On the other thread: "Exclusive Review Of Eco-fan Sound Pre and power amps" there are a bunch of links to a good variety of music, happy listening! http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1599&page=21