Ortofon 2M Bronze with either Jelco SA750D or SME M2-9 tonearm

[markx]

Hi all,

I have decided to go with either a Jelco SA750D or SME M2-9 tonearm as the replacement for the stock arm on my Technics.

I plan to fit an Ortofon 2M Bronze and run it into a Pure Sound P10 phono stage.

Which arm would you go for? Would the cart be a good match for both arms in your opinion? I was originally led to believe the Jelco was a relatively high-mass tonearm and I was concerned it would not be a good match for the 2M Bronze. However, according to the latest spec from Jelco this is not the case. it has an effective mass of 13.5g with the supplied headshell. This would make it a lower mid-mass arm. The SME M2-9 looks fine on paper.

Which arm would you go for in this context and why?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.


Thanks

Mark

[Ammonite Audio]

The Jelco allows you to use damping, so it has potentially greater compatibility with higher compliance MM cartridges than its mass might at first glance indicate. It looks the part and can sound very good, if not in the same league as the Arm1. I can't comment on the SME's comparative performance, but I would love to get my hands on the M2-9 (or even better the M2-9R). In pure value terms, the Jelco has to be a good bet.

If you're going for the Jelco, factor in some more money for a decent headshell (like an Oyaide which is way better than the Jelco/Sumiko ones) and understand that its mounting collar is not very well designed and can seriously hinder consistent setup, which is why I developed my own improved version. Even with that additional expenditure, the Jelco is still good value and is a nice thing to look at and to handle.

[NRG]

The M2-9 also has fluid damping with an optional add on part. If it where me I'd lean towards the M2 as its lower effective mass would maybe suit the 2M a little better...

[CageyH]

You can put fluid damping on a standard arm too.
The new improved version Isokinetic(?) looks good, as you need a decent tone arm cable with the Jelco.
For SME advice, I would talk to Dave Cawley as mentioned elsewhere.

[markx]

You can put fluid damping on a standard arm too.
The new improved version Isokinetic(?) looks good, as you need a decent tone arm cable with the Jelco.
For SME advice, I would talk to Dave Cawley as mentioned elsewhere.

I have spoken with Dave. He recommends the 309 as the best option for the Technics. However, I do not like its look - too space agey, futuristic looking. I prefer the retro look of the M2-9 and the J shaped M2-9R in particular.

[markx]

I am leaning towards the SME M-9. It can be had for around £700 including tonearm cable. I prefer the look of M-9R J shaped arm but it costs £440 more. The Jelco does look like good value but when you factor in the collar, tonearm cable and upgade headshell not so much. I have to say I am not convinced of the sound per pound benifits of very fancy and expensive headshells and wires. However, I could be wrong. You guys have a lot more experience of high-end analogue than I do. The SME-9 would appear to include a very good headshell as standard.

Beobloke, who I understand is an experienced Hi-Fi reviewer and also a contributor to this forum had this to say about the Jelco 750, SME M-9 and SME-309 on another forum:

Jelco SA-750D
Cracking arm. Those who dismiss it as another S-shaped old clunker are missing out as it is very well designed and works with a variety of cartridges - intriguingly the best I have ever heard a Goldring 2500 sound was in the Jelco. You can add extra counterwights and heavier headshells for optimum cartridge matching and it can be oil-damped if you so desire. Very flexible, very well made.

SME M2-9/M2-10
These seem to attract a lot of flack for some reason, mostly with comments that they're just a thinly disguised 3009 with a straight armtube, which is complete twaddle. For a gorgeous silky smooth treble and a wonderful velvelty midrange you can't beat them at the price IMHO, but the bass is their weak point - it's not lacking, nor is it boomy and horrible, it's just a little bit imprecise and ponderous compared to some similar arms at the price. Stick one on a deck like a 301, SP10 or something else with a bit of grunt, though, and the effect is ameliorated nicely. Again, I'm a big fan and, obviously, their build quality and general pleasure of use is unmatched.

SME 309
Now we're talking. Does around 70% of what the V does at half the price. Build quality is...well, it's an SME - say no more. It takes a little more time to set up than a V as adjustments are made through screws rather than thumbwheels and the counterweight is uncalibrated but the standard of engineering and the instructions mean that it's still a pleasure to do. Sound-wise, it's grunty, detailed, dynamic and crisp which ticks all my boxes. The one I have is on a Gyro SE as we speak and the combination is fabulous.

Make sure you audition carefully - if you're the sort of person who thinks the SME V is cold, clinical and horrible, you probably won't like the 309 but will likely enjoy the M2-9. Equally, the SA-750D is a great all-rounder that does a lot well and very little badly but in my opinion the SMEs are another step forwards.

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He would seem to suggest the failings of the M2-9 are largely overcome by matching it to a turntable with a bit of grunt. The 1210 would surely fall into this category. He describes the arm as having a silky smooth treble and velvety mid-range. These are very appealing sound characteristics and areas where the stock Technics most definitely fails. In stock form the table completely lacks finesse imo. Unlike some, I do not think the stock Technics sounds very good at all from a Hi-Fi perspective especially in its MK2 guise. However, as we all know it has a very good foundation.

Obviously, this is just one mans view of the three arms. There are other positive reviews and user feedback out there, including on this forum. As well as one or two dissenters (as you find with most Hi-Fi products) but they seem to be viewing it in the context of a rather ostentatious looking Musical Fidelity turntable which it was bundled with at the time.

Some claim it is a modern reinterpretation of the SME3009 which was often paired with the Technics SL-1500 and which apparently had very good synergy.

I like the retro look of the arm. SME have an excellent reputation. I think it is the one I am going to go for.

I have decided on the 2M Bronze as it is apparently tonally neutral, detailed and clean sounding. Detail is one of the main areas where the stock Technics lacks imo. There seem to be many happy SME arm/2M black users out there. The 2M bronze is one step down from the black. Some criticise the bronze for having a dry textural balance and lacking some emotion. I hope to overcome these failings to some extent by matching it to a decent valve phono stage. It sounds pretty good on a stock Technics in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfSoHT-OL_I

From what I can gather decent vinyl replay is all about getting the right intermix between tonearm, cartridge and phono stage. Hopefully I can achieve this in a cost effective fashion with the above components. I am not looking to achieve world class analogue playback just something that will allow me to enjoy my record collection more so than I do currently.


Thanks

Mark

[Andrei]

Stick one on a deck like a 301, SP10 or something else with a bit of grunt, though, and the effect is ameliorated nicely.
The 1200 really does have grunt. I still get heads shaking in disbelief at the bass my 1210 produces.

[Marco]

The M2-9 is a superb tonearm, and deserves much wider recognition, but the uninitiated will insist on dismissing it and using a 309 instead! :doh:

Keep 309s, IVs and Vs for Michell and SME turntables, where they work superbly well (and also on Oracles). However, on most other T/Ts, IME, better sonic results are obtained with the use of other tonearms.

In terms of the M2-9, its partnership with the Technics SL-1200/1210 is a match made in heaven… More people should be using that combination, simply because the resulting musical satisfaction is significant :exactly:

Marco.

[markx]

Thanks for your input Marco.

Does anyone else have direct experience of the SME M2-9 with a Technics or of the SME M2-9 in general?

Would the 2M Bronze (used with a valve phono stage) be a good choice of MM cartridge? Are there any other MM's out there at or around the £300 mark that would better it?

[anubisgrau]

Can M2-10 go on 1210?

[twotone]

I've a Reson Reca going into a Firebottle mk1 valve phono stage and a Micro Seiki Ma-202 tonearm, sounds excellent to me.


Thanks for your input Marco.

Does anyone else have direct experience of the SME M2-9 with a Technics or of the SME M2-9 in general?

Would the 2M Bronze (used with a valve phono stage) be a good choice of MM cartridge? Are there any other MM's out there at or around the £300 mark that would better it?

[paskinn]

The M2-9 is a superb tonearm, and deserves much wider recognition, but the uninitiated will insist on dismissing it and using a 309 instead! :doh:

Keep 309s, IVs and Vs for Michell and SME turntables, where they work superbly well (and also on Oracles). However, on most other T/Ts, IME, better sonic results are obtained with the use of other tonearms.

In terms of the M2-9, its partnership with the Technics SL-1200/1210 is a match made in heaven… More people should be using that combination, simply because the resulting musical satisfaction is significant :exactly:

Marco.

Good sense here. I have owned a lot of SME arms over the years...and I do mean a lot. I have come to vie the model ranges as alternatives rather than 'better' or 'worse'. Of course something like the 5 or 5-12 offer great features and a lot of technology. All the 300 range do. However, to my ears, the somewhat more 'relaxed' and easy going sound of (say) the M 9 can be very attractive. And the m10 works in the standard arm board. Indeed the m12r is a favourite of mine....and I have the v-12 and 312s to compare it with.
One other point...servicing. You can ring the Steyning factory and get first rate support in minutes,complete with all spares. Try that with any Japanese arm. Overall, SME are probably the best range of arms in the world...all made here, in the UK by a firm with a sixty-year record of unrivalled quality and design. Sometimes, we donot see what is right under our noses.

[prestonchipfryer]

I have used a M2-9 with a 2M Black with excellent results on my SL1210. The M2-9 is very well made, like all SME arms, and is a doddle to set up.