View Full Version : Tonearm cable ?
Audio Al
19-08-2014, 05:13
Anyone know why tonearm cable is always wispy thin ? :scratch:
Canetoad
19-08-2014, 05:37
So as not to hinder the movement of the arm. The thicker the wire the stiffer it will be, which will increase resistance to movement of the arm.
It's also a relatively small signal that it transmits, so it does not need to be big.
It's also a relatively small signal that it transmits, so it does not need to be big.
Both of the above posts nail in a nutshell really.:)
Audio Al
19-08-2014, 18:19
OK , thanks Gents :D
Better shelve the 60amp cable then :lol:
First thing, your initial premise is incorrect. There are lots and lots of thick, heavy tone arm cables. Two quick examples, Cardas and some Lfd. We could throw in some Kimber or many others. Some are really heavy too.
It's probably a bad idea, not least because such cable can act as a mechanical bridge, sending vibration into the arm. It can also bridge any suspension. Further, you then have a heavy, stiff, mass loading the arm by acting as a siuspended weight. One tone arm cable I know could actually bend the din input socket pins because of the weight.
So, thin light cable must be the best option. Mind you, my current Cardas golden cross tone arm lead is thick and seems to work well. But I am careful to support it.
Thin and flexible is the way to go.
I think the chaps above are referring to the wire inside the arm - not the bit that runs from the arm to the amp.
I think the chaps above are referring to the wire inside the arm - not the bit that runs from the arm to the amp.
Correct Mark.:)
Sorry for misunderstanding, but the issue inside many arms is even clearer. Thick cable can foul,the bearings. Indeed some none standard cable installed into various SME arms caused just this problem. The bearings get obstructed, in addition the thin insulation can get rubbed off, causing intermittent 'shorts'.
I speak from experience. It can quite hard to diagnose such problems, and it is not cheap to solve.
So, as with external tone arm cable , thin and flexible is best. Custom tone arm wiring can cause real problems if not done well.
Btw, SME now use an insulating sheath around the thinner internal wiring , to avoid shorts. In the past, this problem has happened to me several times.
How many SME arms have you owned?
Wakefield Turntables
26-08-2014, 19:58
Btw, SME now use an insulating sheath around the thinner internal wiring , to avoid shorts. In the past, this problem has happened to me several times.
Hmmmm thats weird I have a SME V, a SME 3009 and a SME 3012 sitting in my listening room and I've NEVER had that problem.
PaulStewart
26-08-2014, 21:03
Hmmmm thats weird I have a SME V, a SME 3009 and a SME 3012 sitting in my listening room and I've NEVER had that problem.
+1
How many SME arms have you owned?
That is an embarrassing question. Too many. At the last count eleven Series Fives, three5-12s, a 312s, A 312, a 'factory special ' twelve inch arm not on sale, three series threes, loads of 3009s, four 3012s. Of these, half had factory special wiring, which is where issues can arise. There has never been a 'fault free' product in the real world.
I have also owned, over the last twenty years, two Model 30s and my current 30-12. Also a lot of rival arms, including Triplanar, Graham, VPI and Dynavector. Then there is the spj deck and arm...ad several more. More decks too, although, oddly enough, never a Linn. Two 401s and a 301 .
As I said, embarrassing. But I love analogue, dislike digital,don't drink or smoke . My parter takes the view that at least she knows where I am, and it's not down the pub.
There, well you did ask. One final point, it 's not true that SME products don't suffer problems. But they perhaps suffer less than most . Probably. I could say more, but I won't. Most people have no trouble at all. The few that do get good service. Actually my all -time favourite deck was my old Pink Triangle Anniversary....now that elevated faults to an art, but it was still a great deck....
How have you 'got through' so many SME arms? I count at least 21! :stalks: Do you eat them?
Two of my SME arms are at least forty-five years old and I have never had any problems with the internal wiring.
Why should you have? My current 1967 3012 has good original wiring. Reread what I said, which was that these issues tend to occur with 'special wiring' factory arms. Most of which are series Five, Four or 300 . If you want to disregard what I said.....that's your absolute right.
Why own more than 20 arms. ? ' Because I could' is a fair answer, and because I wanted to.
Too many.
Well! If I do go for an SME I will know where to ask questions :->
awkwardbydesign
27-08-2014, 11:33
Do you sell SME then?
I would hope he has done, or he'll be wading in the things!
Never, ever had an issue with SME arms, old or new.
As to "all thick cables are a bad idea" Really?:scratch:
It depends entirely on how the cable is connected to the deck, whether the connection is to a suspended deck or rigid deck and whether or not any significant vibration actually makes it through to the arm. It is perfectly possible to connect a thicker cable (ie a normal coax) to a record deck without causing any bridging that might result in a negative impact on SQ. There are some decks where you may not want to do this (such as a Gyro) but it doesn't need spelling out as it tends to be obvious where you don't want any mass or bridging interfering with suspension. Whilst tonearm cables themselves have to be thin for pretty obvious reasons, phono leads are generally best with substantial screening and low capacitance, especially where MM cartridges are concerned. This tends to favour thicker leads simply because the conductor spacing is wider, thus lowering capacitance. Thinner cables are not all high capacitance though, as some tonearms use one piece wiring from headshell to phono plugs and because the signal conductors are so small, they can be made lowish capacitance. The point about choice though makes it more popular to have Din connectors or hard wired phono sockets on players to allow a choice of cable which is a good thing as it allows flexibility.
Why should you have? My current 1967 3012 has good original wiring. Reread what I said, which was that these issues tend to occur with 'special wiring' factory arms. Most of which are series Five, Four or 300 . If you want to disregard what I said.....that's your absolute right.
Why own more than 20 arms. ? ' Because I could' is a fair answer, and because I wanted to.
Were the 'special wiring' versions done by SME or by a third party?
Although you have edited your post, you said you had tried so many SME arms, as you wanted to listen for yourself to all the variations and not be influenced by reviewers. So in the end, which version have you settled on (if any)?
Have you applied such rigorous assessment programme to cartridges, electronics and speakers?
Wakefield Turntables
27-08-2014, 18:45
Dont you learn from your mistakes? If you have had so many problems with SME why keep banging your head against the same brick wall and keep buying them, additionally why dont you seek someone like Jonny7 from Audio Origami if you are continually getting issues with "special wiring", your post does not make sense and is contradictatory.
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