View Full Version : Caiman 2 and Apple's Airport Express
I cannot use my AE with my Bushmaster 2 as the signal 'stutters'. Stan pinpointed this as a likely timing discrepancy between the two.
My question is... Has anyone tried the AE with the new Caiman 2?
Thanks,
Bonky.
bigmarty
15-08-2014, 00:18
Hi Bonky,
Using Apple AE with Caiman MK11 and Bushmaster MK11 without any problems right now using apple remote on the iPad and IPod touch.
Marty :D
Werner Berghofer
15-08-2014, 07:06
Richard,
I cannot use my AE with my Bushmaster 2 as the signal 'stutters'.
what type of Airport Express are you using? And what firmware version?
Werner.
Richard,
what type of Airport Express are you using? And what firmware version?
Werner.
Hi Werner,
I have several AEs around the house. All were bought about six months ago to replace the old versions that no longer worked with the latest OS. All software and firmware versions are up-to-date.
If the AE in question is plugged into the back of my amp rather than via the DAC, all is OK. I used one of Stan's toslink cables to link the AE with the DAC. The DAC appears to be OK with other sources.
I use Airfoil on the mac to transmit around the house.
The AE is linked via Ethernet to the AE extreme and then Ethernet again to the BT router. The router is linked via wireless to the iMac in another room. One plan is to replace that last path with a temporary Ethernet cable to see if that makes any difference.
Any ideas gratefully received!
BW
Bonky/Richard
Hi Werner,
I have several AEs around the house. All were bought about six months ago to replace the old versions that no longer worked with the latest OS. All software and firmware versions are up-to-date.
If the AE in question is plugged into the back of my amp rather than via the DAC, all is OK. I used one of Stan's toslink cables to link the AE with the DAC. The DAC appears to be OK with other sources.
I use Airfoil on the mac to transmit around the house.
The AE is linked via Ethernet to the AE extreme and then Ethernet again to the BT router. The router is linked via wireless to the iMac in another room. One plan is to replace that last path with a temporary Ethernet cable to see if that makes any difference.
Any ideas gratefully received!
BW
Bonky/Richard
My original Airport Express is connected to my Caiman mk1 via toslink and runs under the latest OS absolutely fine. The iMac streams to the AE wirelessly. I don't really know why yours didn't work with the latest OS.
Incidentally, you can choose your sound output device by clicking holding the ALT key while clicking the volume icon in the menu bar. This will show you your AirPlay enabled devices. I'm sure Airfoil has other features but for this simple purpose it's no longer needed.
bigmarty
15-08-2014, 14:17
Hi Bonky,
When I first set up my Airport Express I had drop out problems at first but then tried changing it from 2.4GHz to 5GHz and this seemed to sort out the problem, as I said before I have my Airport Express going into my Caiman MK11 using Toslink and have given the Airport Express the name HIFI so when using Airplay or Airfoil my iMac will list known devices and I choose HIFI and this seems to work.
Marty :D
Werner Berghofer
15-08-2014, 19:21
Richard,
All were bought about six months ago to replace the old versions that no longer worked with the latest OS. All software and firmware versions are up-to-date.
that’s interesting, because in my Apple based household the first generation Airport Express as well as the latest Airport Express models are recognized and supported by all Mac OS X and iOS devices. I think with AirPlay built right into the OS there’s no need anymore for Airfoil.
Did you try to see if it makes a difference when you stream directly via iTunes to this certain Airport Express station? Maybe the problem is related to Airfoil?
Werner.
Richard,
that’s interesting, because in my Apple based household the first generation Airport Express as well as the latest Airport Express models are recognized and supported by all Mac OS X and iOS devices. I think with AirPlay built right into the OS there’s no need anymore for Airfoil.
Did you try to see if it makes a difference when you stream directly via iTunes to this certain Airport Express station? Maybe the problem is related to Airfoil?
Werner.
As insightful as ever Werner; many thanks.
You are correct. If music is played via iTunes with AirPlay all is well. The problem appears to be with using AirFoil. I have emailed the developers to inform them of this 'issue'.
I use Airfoil because I like using Audirvana rather than iTunes.
My forthcoming experiment with the ethernet cable may prove to be both unnecessary and expensive.
Perhaps deep down I was trying to justify the buying of a Caiman2 DAC to replace my BM2!!
Thanks again to you and all who have contributed.
BW
Richard/Bonky
Werner Berghofer
16-08-2014, 07:45
Richard,
I use Airfoil because I like using Audirvana rather than iTunes.
I see. Do as follows:
In Audio/MIDI Setup select the corresponding AirPlay “receiver” which you intent to stream your music to. Set bit depth and sampling rate to 16 bit and 44.1 kHz, because this is the maximum currently supported by the Airport Express hardware. (So then why use Audirvana instead of plain ol’ iTunes, but that’s a different thread.)
In System Preferences/Sound, select the destined Airport Express as receiving “sound port” for AirPlay output. To prevent unwelcome surprises, turn off any alert or notification sounds, since these sounds of course also will be sent via AirPlay to your HiFi system.
Launch Audirvana and set the sound output to “local” or “Computer”. (Don’t know if this is possible or how it is called, since I’m not that deeply familiar with this application.) Click “play” and hear if everything works flawlessly.
However, as I already mentioned: You might decide if you really hear a difference between playback via iTunes and Audirvana, since 16 bit/44.1 kHz is the maximum supported by the current models of Airport Express. I’m a very picky and attentive listener, and I don’t notice any difference in sound reproduction quality when compairing iTunes with the various audiophile players available streaming to one or more of the three Airport Express stations in my home. Preferences regarding the user interface of any of these programs don’t bother me, since iTunes on the playback computer is controlled by Apple’s “Remote” application on the iPhone or iPad.
Sometimes audiophile software players might be preferrable for playback (of non-Red Book resolution files?) to a locally connected DAC/amplifier chain, but when streaming wirelessly to Airport Express or similar devices I really don’t see any advantage. More than 100 percent bit perfect simply are not possible, and Airport Express has been offering this feature for Red Book audio playback since its very first days.
Werner.
Thanks Werner,
That's great; much better...
It worked well for about 30 mins and now has just started 'stammering' a little now (small drop-outs). I'm listening to a downloaded Bowie file so it may be that. I'll try with some music I've copied from my own CDs..
It's just a pity that I can only stream to one AE at a time. I hope the AirFoil developers can find a fix.
Thanks again for you knowledge and help.
BW
Richard
It's just a pity that I can only stream to one AE at a time. I hope the AirFoil developers can find a fix.
Take a look at the Porthole (http://www.getporthole.com) app.
Thanks Webby, I will.
I've tried more tracks - even ones I have ripped from CDs - and the 'stammering'/drop-outs is/are still there - but not as bad as before.
I have also tried it on another Mac - this time an i5 PowerBook, and the hesitancy is still there. I will now wait for the 'thunderbolt-to-ethernet' connector to arrive before I revert back - unless of course porthole comes up trumps!
A shame I can't use this issue as an excuse for a new DAC...
This issue in this configuration, remember, is without using AirFoil.
BW
Bonky
Werner Berghofer
16-08-2014, 16:55
Richard,
That's great; much better...
you could try to “downgrade” the firmware of the Airport Express to version 7.6.1 (7.6.4 is the latest). I remember an issue with the latest Airport Express models, where only the digital output was effected by random drop-outs. For strange reasons, this problem was not present if the Airport Express was connected analogue via the 3.5 mm RCA outputs to an amplifier.
Werner.
Richard,
you could try to “downgrade” the firmware of the Airport Express to version 7.6.1 (7.6.4 is the latest). I remember an issue with the latest Airport Express models, where only the digital output was effected by random drop-outs. For strange reasons, this problem was not present if the Airport Express was connected analogue via the 3.5 mm RCA outputs to an amplifier.
Werner.
Werner, that's exactly what I've found. Airfoil exacerbates the problem but perhaps Stan was right - it's a timing issue between the AE and the Bushmaster. That's why I was wondering if the problem was resolved with the new Caiman2.
Anyone?
BW
Bonky
StanleyB
17-08-2014, 09:59
No amount of tampering with the Caiman is going to overcome the drop outs from airfoil. If a byte is not in the data stream from PC to DAC, the DAC can't recreate it. You guys asked for bit perfect handling, which is what I did my best to stuff the CII with.
The Caiman was also designed for lossless high quality data playback. I wouldn't be tempted to use it mainly for 16/44.1 wireless streaming. The far cheaper BMII would be the ideal platform in that case.
It's just a pity that I can only stream to one AE at a time. I hope the AirFoil developers can find a fix.
...is that the case with all apple AE implementations? One can't stream to parallel devices...?
Werner Berghofer
18-08-2014, 07:44
Will,
...is that the case with all apple AE implementations? One can't stream to parallel devices...?
no, iTunes is able to stream one tune to one or more AirPlay devices parallel. The limitations mentioned here are caused by the different audio playback software and the software used to wirelessly stream audio Richard prefers to use.
http://www.berghofer.com/photos/wp/2014/multiple_airplay.jpg
iTunes itself is not limited to stream to only one remote device, but it’s not possible to stream for example track A to “living room” and “bedroom” and track B to “headphone listening chair” at the same time from only one computer. One track can be broadcast to one, more or all AirPlay devices present in the same WLAN, but two or more computers can stream different tunes to different AirPlay destinations.
Werner.
Will,
no, iTunes is able to stream one tune to one or more AirPlay devices parallel. The limitations mentioned here are caused by the different audio playback software and the software used to wirelessly stream audio data Richard/Bonky prefers to use.
iTunes itself is not limited to stream to only one remote device, but it’s not possible to stream for example track A to “living room” and “bedroom” and track B to “headphone listening chair” at the same time from only one computer. One track can be broadcast to one or all AirPlay devices present in the same WLAN, but two or more computers can stream different tunes to different AirPlay destinations.
Werner.
Cheers for that Werner, as a Squeezebox user I'm used to LMS's 'parallel' streaming capabilities, but have limited knowledge of AE...
My friend is an apple user, and is looking into streaming capabilities, so this is useful info...:)
Will
Worth adding that iOS devices can not stream to multiple devices, or at least not from any app local to that device. You can stream to multiple devices from an iOS device by using the Remote app, but then you are just remote controlling iTunes on your Mac/pc.
...snip...
but then you are just remote controlling iTunes on your Mac/pc.
True, but with the added benefit of increased SQ! ;) Particularly if the 'puter and the AE's/ATV's share the same LAN (wired)
At least in my area of the woods! ;)
True, but with the added benefit of increased SQ! ;) Particularly if the 'puter and the AE's/ATV's share the same LAN (wired)
At least in my area of the woods! ;)
I guess that depends what format you've got on your phone.
I guess that depends what format you've got on your phone.
Er, no...
(Comparison made with identical AiFF files, on both the phone/pad and on the computer.)
Er, no...
(Comparison made with identical AiFF files, on both the phone/pad and on the computer.)
Really? That's odd. Anything streamed through the AE is converted to ALAC. Not sure why there'd be a sq difference.
Really? That's odd. Anything streamed through the AE is converted to ALAC. Not sure why there'd be a sq difference.
I cant say for sure, but i suspect the processing capability within a phone is less than with a computer. Besides, you eliminate the transformation to and from the WLAN protocols. I fully agree all streams are converted to ALAC 16/44.1 when streaming to an AE or AirPlay reciever. (Apple TV displays 16/48 output, but im not sure if the stream is resampled within the ATV or if the stream is different to begin with)
Give it a try? Think you'll like what you hear?
Atb Mike
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