View Full Version : Heybrook HB3 Mk2
Anyone using or has used a pair of these?
I seem to remember reading that they are difficult to get to sound good/right and need a big squib up their arse to five good results?
The pair that I might consider need the mids re-foaming, but they don't sound too terrible and weigh a bloody ton, so it seems the cabs are well made.
They need a complete overhaul to make them look pretty:D
What is the best stuff to use to remove the remains of the foam surround?
They do like a bit of oomph. I ran mine with an A&R A60 for 20 years without any problems apart from a bit of lightness in the bass which I put down to the roll-off built into the A60 phono stage. Never felt I was getting the best out of them though. Under the right conditions, they can be a bit special.
They were designed mostly using EAR 509s, but you don't have to go that far. I'd love to hear a pair with a decent valve amp, say WD88VA or similar.
As with many of PJCs creations, they're designed to work against the wall, which helps when trying to absorb a couple of fairly uncompromising lumps into your sitting room!
If you'll forgive being diverted to another forum, there's a restoration thread here:
http://www.world-designs.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6472&highlight=heybrook
If you do get them, i've got a pair with RFC upgraded crossovers http://www.referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/services/loudspeaker-services/ but soon after i replaced the xovers one of my midrange voicecoils went ( nothing to do with Pauls workmanship) and as you'll find out they were discontinued long ago, and now they're just sitting there sad lonely and dejected. I've now moved to active speakers so if you want any bits or would like to try the xovers just give me a shout
If you do get them, i've got a pair with RFC upgraded crossovers http://www.referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/services/loudspeaker-services/ but soon after i replaced the xovers one of my midrange voicecoils went ( nothing to do with Pauls workmanship) and as you'll find out they were discontinued long ago, and now they're just sitting there sad lonely and dejected. I've now moved to active speakers so if you want any bits or would like to try the xovers just give me a shout
Hi Martin, I have yet to have a look at the crossover to see what is in there. I have just ordered new foams for the midranges. I will be in touch with you very shortly. Rob.
SEAS still list a data sheet for the MCA11FC, which was a drop-in replacement for the original 11FM, but I can't work out from their website whether they can still supply them. Could be worth an email. I replaced both of my midrange units with 11FCs about 10 years ago and was well pleased.
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=122:seas-vintage-prestige-midranges&catid=25:seas-vintage-drivers&Itemid=427
Beobloke
12-08-2014, 08:04
What is the best stuff to use to remove the remains of the foam surround?
For 95% of foam surrounds - IPA in a spray bottle and a big flat bladed screwdriver or chisel used gently. Wear gloves and protect your work surface and the floor around you for a radius of at least 4 feet as the old foam stuff gets EVERYWHERE and sticks to EVERYTHING, leaving a slimy black blob that can only be removed using more IPA!
For the other 5% - if it's gone hard and crusty it should pick/fall off with very little provocation and no need for any IPA. This is, sadly, rare in my experience.
awkwardbydesign
12-08-2014, 12:52
For 95% of foam surrounds - IPA in a spray bottle and a big flat bladed screwdriver or chisel used gently. Wear gloves and protect your work surface and the floor around you for a radius of at least 4 feet as the old foam stuff gets EVERYWHERE and sticks to EVERYTHING, leaving a slimy black blob that can only be removed using more IPA!
For the other 5% - if it's gone hard and crusty it should pick/fall off with very little provocation and no need for any IPA. This is, sadly, rare in my experience.
Does it have to be IPA? Would meths do?
For 95% of foam surrounds - IPA in a spray bottle and a big flat bladed screwdriver or chisel used gently. Wear gloves and protect your work surface and the floor around you for a radius of at least 4 feet as the old foam stuff gets EVERYWHERE and sticks to EVERYTHING, leaving a slimy black blob that can only be removed using more IPA!
For the other 5% - if it's gone hard and crusty it should pick/fall off with very little provocation and no need for any IPA. This is, sadly, rare in my experience.
Cheers for that Adam. I would also be interested to know if you could use Meths or maybe White Spirit.
Beobloke
12-08-2014, 15:29
I suspect they might work but I haven't tried them and the advantage with IPA is that it evaporates quickly, and doesn't hang around and stink the place out, so I've always stuck with it.
awkwardbydesign
12-08-2014, 16:30
OK, thanks.
Pretty mint eh
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/saxonsex/DSCF2367_zps8bfb7244.jpg
awkwardbydesign
12-08-2014, 18:59
Eeooh!
tannoy man
15-08-2014, 11:01
I Listened to a Fantastic Demo of These when they were new, the Front end was Dunlop Systemdeck, Mission Arm and Moving Coil Cart with The Lentec Integrated
FAB
I Listened to a Fantastic Demo of These when they were new, the Front end was Dunlop Systemdeck, Mission Arm and Moving Coil Cart with The Lentec Integrated
FAB
Once I have refurbed them I might get some of the same:)
These are good speakers. RE crossovers, I've done a set of these and am working on another set. The boards are rather thin so any attempts to replace the existing inductors with something better (not difficult where these were concerned!) needs to account for the mass as well as physical size of any air or P core replacements of equivalent DCR to the originals, or the boards can easily be cracked. Solder tracks are also woefully thin and lift easily, so you need to take care with any resoldering work. Other than that, they're a well designed and thought out set of speakers, and like most of the early Heybrooks, were designed and built by people who knew a thing or two (although I think that Peter Commeau, one of the original founders may have left Heybrook at the time the HB3s were designed).
walpurgis
15-08-2014, 15:32
Pretty mint eh
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/saxonsex/DSCF2367_zps8bfb7244.jpg
I've cleaned up units looking like that with a patient hour or two using a pair of tweezers. The Plastiflex coating will sometimes come up well with cheap furniture polish, but experiment on a very small area first as it can go opaque depending on the type used.
Tip: if you have a Plastiflex coating that is falling off or crazing or you just want to treat a cone. Try Aleene's Original Tacky Glue mixed with 25% Unibond (white PVA glue) and another 25% water. After experimentation, I've found this works and gives an authentic finish, it may require a couple of coats. Again, test on small areas before going the whole hog. It's water soluble and can be wiped off if not dried. Added coatings increase diaphragm mass slightly reducing sensitivity marginally.
These are good speakers. RE crossovers, I've done a set of these and am working on another set. The boards are rather thin so any attempts to replace the existing inductors with something better (not difficult where these were concerned!) needs to account for the mass as well as physical size of any air or P core replacements of equivalent DCR to the originals, or the boards can easily be cracked. Solder tracks are also woefully thin and lift easily, so you need to take care with any resoldering work. Other than that, they're a well designed and thought out set of speakers, and like most of the early Heybrooks, were designed and built by people who knew a thing or two (although I think that Peter Commeau, one of the original founders may have left Heybrook at the time the HB3s were designed).
That's really helpful. Thanks for that. I have seen your previous crossover rebuild and might do some tinkering once they are up and running.
I've cleaned up units looking like that with a patient hour or two using a pair of tweezers. The Plastiflex coating will sometimes come up well with cheap furniture polish, but experiment on a very small area first as it can go opaque depending on the type used.
Tip: if you have a Plastiflex coating that is falling off or crazing or you just want to treat a cone. Try Aleene's Original Tacky Glue mixed with 25% Unibond (white PVA glue) and another 25% water. After experimentation, I've found this works and gives an authentic finish, it may require a couple of coats. Again, test on small areas before going the whole hog. It's water soluble and can be wiped off if not dried. Added coatings increase diaphragm mass slightly reducing sensitivity marginally.
I have some Aleene's from a previous project. I have removed most of the old surround from the mid-ranges and am awaiting the new ones. I have some Isopropyl Alc on order to get rid of the remaining gunk from the cone. I may give your tip a try.
I think that Peter Commeau, one of the original founders may have left Heybrook at the time the HB3s were designed.
The HB3 was Peter and Stuart's second Heybrook product and was in it's embryonic stages when Heybrook first hit the market with the original HB2 in 1979. Peter stayed with the company through to the early '90s, long after the both had ceased production. I think, but I'm not sure, that his last design was the Quartet.
The HB3 was Peter and Stuart's second Heybrook product and was in it's embryonic stages when Heybrook first hit the market with the original HB2 in 1979. Peter stayed with the company through to the early '90s, long after the both had ceased production. I think, but I'm not sure, that his last design was the Quartet.
Thanks Shane. Must admit, I had though that the Quartet was after Peter's departure, but interesting to learn that the HB3 was from his pen. Should have asked him when I had the chance earlier in the year!
awkwardbydesign
15-08-2014, 20:09
I still have a pair of the 10" SEAS bass units that I bought from Peter in the early 80s, and have cut some mdf to make bass cabinets for them. I have kept to the original HB3 dimensions, as I always liked the character of the bass from them when I built some back in the day. The genuine cabinets came from Wilmslow Audio, and Peter sold me all the other parts needed, including the crossovers! Very helpful was Peter. On paper the bass units are clean up to about 3k, and I have a pair of Shackman electrostatic panels which work down to 500Hz. Allegedly. So I am going to try to force them into unholy matrimony.
But does anyone have the schematic for the HB3s, Mk1 or Mk2? As I may try to make a clone at some point in the future, if the marriage ends in divorce!
I also cloned the HB2s. Wish I could get another pair of those little mid/bass drivers, I really liked them.
walpurgis
15-08-2014, 20:38
Sounds like an interesting combo Richard. The SEAS 10" are nice drivers, you'll have a bit of juggling to do with the sensitivity differences and I believe the Shackmans need a very steep filter.
What were the bass/mid drivers you wanted? I have a brand new boxed pair of Heybrook 8" units somewhere. Don't know if they'd be the same.
(excuse the edit on your post. Somehow I got my initial reply on your posting. Abuse of Mod privileges again :rolleyes:)
The HB2 used a 6" bextrene-coned bass unit from Audax, whereas the HB3 and HB1 both used paper bass units from SEAS and Vifa. Very different...
awkwardbydesign
16-08-2014, 08:08
The HB2 used a 6" bextrene-coned bass unit from Audax, whereas the HB3 and HB1 both used paper bass units from SEAS and Vifa. Very different...
Obviously my memory is failing. Although I did make the HB2s, the mid/bass drivers I was thinking of were the little SEAS 11FGs. http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h224_11f-lg_pdf_1.pdf So I wonder where these came from? I used them in a few different cabinets, including ceramic drain pipes. Hmm. :scratch:
walpurgis
16-08-2014, 19:47
I remember them. Popular with Italian speaker manufacturers at the time if I recall.
337alant
16-08-2014, 20:42
I dont remember the HB3 posted ?
This is the HB3 I remember https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=heybrook+hb3+speakers&tbm=isch&imgil=g33vHGtpNiEwKM%253A%253Bqie0IG2MLO5eZM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.soundsclassic.com%2525 2Fspeakers.html&source=iu&usg=__IJKtmBejd8HbuwzYgcBZ-5b2xjA%3D&sa=X&ei=ksDvU479MK7Q7AaTrYGADw&ved=0CCIQ9QEwAA&biw=1366&bih=602#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=g33vHGtpNiEwKM%253A%3Bqie0IG2MLO5eZM%3Bhttp% 253A%252F%252Fwww.soundsclassic.com%252Flistpix%25 2Fheybrookhb3series11ptypebk.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F% 252Fwww.soundsclassic.com%252Fspeakers.html%3B600% 3B502
heard them several times and loved the Phat bass they had just couldnt afford them at the time so bought the HB2s :doh:
Alan
Obviously my memory is failing. Although I did make the HB2s, the mid/bass drivers I was thinking of were the little SEAS 11FGs. http://www.seas.no/images/stories/vintage/pdfdataheet/h224_11f-lg_pdf_1.pdf So I wonder where these came from? I used them in a few different cabinets, including ceramic drain pipes. Hmm. :scratch:
The 11FG was never used in a production Heybrook speaker but as you can see its a variaton on the 11FM which was the HB3 midrange unit. There were a few pairs of 11FGs knocking around the factory in Wembury though, for experimental purposes. IIRC one pair ended up on the back shelf of the Triumph 1500 I was driving at the time. It was probably a couple of those you got from Peter. Did you ever go out to Wembury?
awkwardbydesign
17-08-2014, 07:34
The 11FG was never used in a production Heybrook speaker but as you can see its a variaton on the 11FM which was the HB3 midrange unit. There were a few pairs of 11FGs knocking around the factory in Wembury though, for experimental purposes. IIRC one pair ended up on the back shelf of the Triumph 1500 I was driving at the time. It was probably a couple of those you got from Peter. Did you ever go out to Wembury?
I never went to Wembury, all my dealings with Peter were on the phone. I wonder if he sold me the 11FGs, or if I got them from Henry's on Edgware Road (my shop of choice at the time). Oh well, it doesn't matter, as I can't get any anyway! I think I even used them in a version of the Daline. http://www.tech-diy.com/Loudspeakers/Daline/Daline.pdf
Refurbed mid-ranges.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/saxonsex/DSCF2370_zps727b8370.jpg
Hell of a lot neater than whoever did mine, very nice, neat job
Refurbed mid-ranges.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/saxonsex/DSCF2370_zps727b8370.jpg
Martyn Miles
31-08-2014, 17:29
Does it have to be IPA? Would meths do?
IPA. Isn't that Indian Pale Ale ?
There is some very fine Greene King IPA on offer at Sainsburys at the mo for £1squid a bott. 4.2grav, so not piss poor.
Just for the record I used Aleene's glue on the re-furbed mid-ranges. Keep a look out for the full story on the re-furb.
walpurgis
31-08-2014, 18:09
Nice job you've done there Rob. Very smart!
Did you re-coat the cones?
Nice job you've done there Rob. Very smart!
Did you re-coat the cones?
No, they cleaned up really well with IsoP. I have to say I didn't think that I would get all the muck off as well as I did. There is obviously still quite a lot of dope on the cones as they are tacky to the touch.
The mid-ranges came out of the box from SEAS tacky. It always amazes me that thirty years on they still are!
They're tacky because they're coated in a damping compound in order that they achieve low break up resonance and give a smooth as possible response at the upper end of their range. If this is removed, distortion will be increased as damping effects decrease. Just thought it was worth noting.
They're tacky because they're coated in a damping compound in order that they achieve low break up resonance and give a smooth as possible response at the upper end of their range. If this is removed, distortion will be increased as damping effects decrease. Just thought it was worth noting.
Cheers. I know that you rebuilt some HB3 crossovers. Do you have a schematic that would show how I could split the bass off as I might go the active route for the bass.
Cheers. I know that you rebuilt some HB3 crossovers. Do you have a schematic that would show how I could split the bass off as I might go the active route for the bass.
I'll have a look through my documentation but it shouldn't be hard to deduce the bass filter from the crossover since it is pretty well laid out.
Right Rob;
I've dug up my notes and the bass filter uses the following components:
Inductor: 3.43 mH at a whopping 0.72R
The shunt capacitors should be around 32uF. Originals were 50V rated 25 UF electrolytics with an old poly 6u8 in parallel (tolerance around 10% from memory). These were changed for a 100V 'lytic 25uF and a Solen 6u8 (measured to within 2%). That kept the ESR the same as the originals. If going active, you will have to play around with values a little as ESR for the same values will differ and electrical damping may be different as the passive set up also acts to dampen back emf to the amp.
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