Turntables

[Martyn Miles]

I have been listening to my £25 AR XA turntable, recently fitted with a Denon DL110 cartridge. They is no two ways about it.
It sounds superb. I have a 30+ years old LP12/Mission 774/Entre MC on my main system.
I swear the AR combination sounds better...

[fiddlemaker]

that doesn't surprise me at all.
As I said in another thread, I think that the LP12 is ridiculously over hyped and overrated.
I owned an LP12/Ittok for many years, and was never really convinced it was any better than the TD150 it replaced.
The Hyperspace/Ace Space arm I have now is simply in a different league.
Tom Fletcher knew what was what.

[NRG]

+1 nor me John, however, I have a friend with the latest top spec LP12 and it is a very very fine deck indeed but the cost !! :stalks:

[Martyn Miles]

that doesn't surprise me at all.
As I said in another thread, I think that the LP12 is ridiculously over hyped and overrated.
I owned an LP12/Ittok for many years, and was never really convinced it was any better than the TD150 it replaced.
The Hyperspace/Ace Space arm I have now is simply in a different league.
Tom Fletcher knew what was what.

I am seriously thinking of selling the Linn and buying another XA. The Entre was recently refurbished by Expert Pickups and there's no reason it wouldn't work in the AR, as proved by the use of the Denon.

[Haselsh1]

I remember back in around 1983 having a side by side demo of a then Linn LP12 and a Logic DM101. Both were fitted with Linn LVV tonearms but I cannot remember which cartridge was used. I do remember however that the DM101 completely trounced the Linn in every respect and so I bought one complete with a Syrinx PU2 tonearm. Now that was a fabulous deck.

[Eagle owl]

that doesn't surprise me at all.
As I said in another thread, I think that the LP12 is ridiculously over hyped and overrated.
I owned an LP12/Ittok for many years, and was never really convinced it was any better than the TD150 it replaced.
The Hyperspace/Ace Space arm I have now is simply in a different league.
Tom Fletcher knew what was what.

Many, many years ago there was a a hi-fi dealership in Eastbourne, 'Jefferies Hi-Fi. On one occasion they hired a large room in the pub opposite and did a blind listening session between a Rega Planar 3 with an S shaped arm plus a good cartridge and a much more expensive Linn setup. In those days I lusted after a Linn turntable etc but couldn't afford it. Anyway, long story short, we listened to a a lot of music on both turntables and then voted on which we thought was the better. The result was roughly 50/50 votes for each. I voted for the Rega setup and eventually bought one. The guys from Jefferies Hi-Fi were surprised by the result because I'm certain they thought the Linn would beat the Rega hands down.

[rubber duck]

I have a 30+ years old LP12/Mission 774/Entre MC on my main system.
I swear the AR combination sounds better...



I owned an LP12/Ittok for many years, and was never really convinced it was any better than the TD150 it replaced.


Was the LP12 properly set up though? I've heard the LP12 sound bloated but also quite sublime in different set ups.

[Ammonite Audio]

I remember back in around 1983 having a side by side demo of a then Linn LP12 and a Logic DM101. Both were fitted with Linn LVV tonearms but I cannot remember which cartridge was used. I do remember however that the DM101 completely trounced the Linn in every respect and so I bought one complete with a Syrinx PU2 tonearm. Now that was a fabulous deck.

A fabulous but deeply flawed and frustrating deck. I have an electronic DM101 now, but back in the early 80s I auditioned the LP12 against the DM101 and Pink Triangle. Only the Linn was decently made and finished and, strangely enough, stood the test of time!

[Haselsh1]

If the Linn LP12 was indeed so perfect how could it ever be improved upon and why was and is there an endless stream of upgrades for it which are supposed to make this 'perfect' deck even better...? The fact is that the Linn LP12 was and is only an average deck of average build quality and that I am afraid, is all it will ever be.

[YNWaN]

Everything can be improved and I don't recall Linn ever claiming the LP12 was perfect; I say this as one who doesn't own an LP12 (and never will).

[Macca]

I've heard a few LP12s over the years and never heard one that didn't sound good to me. In the Eighties we youngsters aspired to an LP12 from our Goodmans or Tensai student decks. If we couldn't have a Linn then it had to be Rega. This was because not many other decks got much coverage. Even in letters to the mags all the people writing in would have a Rega or a Linn. A Systemdek was a real left-field choice back then even though the LP12 didn't do much that it couldn't for a lot more money. The LP12 would even be mentioned in the mainstream press on occasion, no wonder it became the de-facto standard of excellence.

[Beobloke]

I've finally got round to playing with a Logic DM101 that I bought back in May. I've been using it for a few weeks now and have to say I'm really impressed with it. Yes the setup is fiddly, the routing of the arm cable around the chassis means that you're only left with about six inches sticking out of the back for connection purposes and the belt REALLY doesn't like staying on the 45rpm pulley but it sounds very nice indeed!


I have an electronic DM101 now,

Brave man. PLEASE remember to keep it unplugged when you're not using it and are not in the room!

[awkwardbydesign]

In the Eighties we youngsters aspired to an LP12 from our Goodmans or Tensai student decks.
In the 80s this less of a youngster aspired to an Oracle Delphi. It took 30 years but I have one now. But I always admired engineering and attractive metalwork. Which doesn't really describe the LP12! Amusingly, to me at least, I had a GL75 at the time, and now I have one in the loft waiting to be turned into a superdeck! Maybe.

[Ammonite Audio]

I've finally got round to playing with a Logic DM101 that I bought back in May. I've been using it for a few weeks now and have to say I'm really impressed with it. Yes the setup is fiddly, the routing of the arm cable around the chassis means that you're only left with about six inches sticking out of the back for connection purposes and the belt REALLY doesn't like staying on the 45rpm pulley but it sounds very nice indeed!



Brave man. PLEASE remember to keep it unplugged when you're not using it and are not in the room!

Don't worry - I know about the design's incandescent tendencies. I might convert it to non-electronic operation, but that would necessitate having a new motor pulley made.

[chris@panteg]

Was the LP12 properly set up though? I've heard the LP12 sound bloated but also quite sublime in different set ups.

Fair comment , I used to have an LP12/Lingo/ekos/troika , it got put away for a few months and when reassembled it had clearly gone out of tune , and sounded no better than a dual 505 mk2 I also had at the time , got it serviced , and it was like night and day difference , though the bass still sounded vague and fruity but that's the old fruitbox .

[NRG]

I remember back in around 1983 having a side by side demo of a then Linn LP12 and a Logic DM101. Both were fitted with Linn LVV tonearms but I cannot remember which cartridge was used. I do remember however that the DM101 completely trounced the Linn in every respect and so I bought one complete with a Syrinx PU2 tonearm. Now that was a fabulous deck.

You're not making things any easier Shaun!! :D

There was one up on Ebay a while back, same as my old one but the seller wouldn't ship to the UK Grrrr.

[Haselsh1]

You're not making things any easier Shaun!! :D

There was one up on Ebay a while back, same as my old one but the seller wouldn't ship to the UK Grrrr.

I loved the way the DM101 would be rock steady when playing vinyl if it was knocked slightly whereas the Linn would bounce all over the place. The difference between these decks was like chalk and cheese but I cannot for the life of me remember which year the demo was. It must've been around 1983 around the time of the 'Last Drop' village hi-fi show.
I also remember that gorgeous gunmetal type of finish that the deck was done in and that huge shiny platter; miles better than the old fruitbox at the time.
Also, I was careful not to state that Linn referred to their deck as perfect; as I recall, it was the press that were responsible for this misconception.

[Mr Kipling]

Think I'm right in saying it had 3 conventional springs like a Linn/Thorens/etc, but also a central one too.

Wondered what the sub-chassis was made of.

[YNWaN]

I seem to recall the sub-chassis was aluminium plate. The centre spring was added during its life.

[f1eng]

I loved the way the DM101 would be rock steady when playing vinyl if it was knocked slightly whereas the Linn would bounce all over the place. The difference between these decks was like chalk and cheese but I cannot for the life of me remember which year the demo was. It must've been around 1983 around the time of the 'Last Drop' village hi-fi show.
I also remember that gorgeous gunmetal type of finish that the deck was done in and that huge shiny platter; miles better than the old fruitbox at the time.
Also, I was careful not to state that Linn referred to their deck as perfect; as I recall, it was the press that were responsible for this misconception.

All decks with good isolation over the whole audio frequency range respond violently to any knock. It is one of the compromises one has to chose. There is no other way until the laws of physics are repealed...
Either very good isolation with sensitive handling and knock sensitivity, or good hamfistedness resistance but mediocre to poor isolation.

[400v on the anode]

Many years ago I had a Linn LP12 with the Grace 707 arm and my still extant Shure V15III, I thought it sounded pretty good until I cobbled together a Collaro 4T200 motor, Platter and bearing on a piece of chip board with an SME 3009 S2, guess what - the Collaro although suffering with a little rumble beat the Linn hands down, this was my first turntable tinker, the next was the Garrard 401 that I still own and the Linn was sold.

Graham

[Barry]

Many years ago I had a Linn LP12 with the Grace 707 arm and my still extant Shure V15III, I thought it sounded pretty good until I cobbled together a Collaro 4T200 motor, Platter and bearing on a piece of chip board with an SME 3009 S2, guess what - the Collaro although suffering with a little rumble beat the Linn hands down, this was my first turntable tinker, the next was the Garrard 401 that I still own and the Linn was sold.

Graham

Whilst I was waiting for my local hi-fi dealer to obtain a Garrard 401 for me, the shop loaned me an old Collaro 2020 idler wheel driven TT as a temporary measure.

I removed the prehistoric Collaro arm and replaced it with an SME 3009/II, fitted with a Shure M55E. The bearing well and the motor bearings were re-lubricated and the motor suspension was adjusted slightly. So good was the performance that I cancelled the order for the Garrard and lived with the Collaro happily for the next couple of years, before replacing it with a Thorens 124/II.

My only personal experience with the Linn LP12 has been when a friend of mine left all his gear with me to look after whilst he was out of the country. The Linn was fitted with the Grace 707 and an AKG P8ES cartridge. When I compared it to my Thorens 124 / SME / AKG P8ES combination, I heard nothing that would cause me to want to replace the Thorens I had (and still have).

[walpurgis]

Whilst I was waiting for my local hi-fi dealer to obtain a Garrard 401 for me, the shop loaned me an old Collaro 2020 idler wheel driven TT as a temporary measure.

I removed the prehistoric Collaro arm and replaced it with an SME 3009/II, fitted with a Shure M55E. The bearing well and the motor bearings were re-lubricated and the motor suspension was adjusted slightly. So good was the performance that I cancelled the order for the Garrard and lived with the Collaro happily for the next couple of years.

You didn't say Barry, but I have the feeling this may not have been very recently! :)

(I had an old Collaro about 1972 that I tried a couple of arms on. I went back to using my faithful Connoisseur)

[Barry]

You didn't say Barry, but I have the feeling this may not have been very recently! :)

(I had an old Collaro about 1972 that I tried a couple of arms on. I went back to using my faithful Connoisseur)

It was probably around 1970. I was using a Garrard SP25 Mk.II in 1969 and I bought my Thorens 124 in 1971/2.

I'm sure a side-by-side comparison between the Collaro and the Garrard 401 could have showed the latter to be better: the Garrard certainly was better built, but the 'fettled' Collaro was good enough for me until I bought the Thorens.