Quad ESL's Near Back Wall

[Ninanina]

Is there anyone using any ESL's near to a back wall ??

[daytona600]

Stats with curved panels are Dipoles need space at the back as the radiate sound front & back like a figure of 8 pattern, suppose you could put curtains/diffusers behind
or try 5 degrees off centre speaker placement to reduce room nodes , place them non parallel to the walls or across two corners
symmetrical placement where the speakers are the same distance from walls and corners. This is the worst placement because both speakers will produce the same few resonances and they will be at double the magnitude than if the speakers were placed randomly in the room.

Stats with Flat panels work anywhere

[Ninanina]

Stats with curved panels are Dipoles need space at the back as the radiate sound front & back like a figure of 8 pattern, suppose you could put curtains/diffusers behind
or try 5 degrees off centre speaker placement to reduce room nodes , place them non parallel to the walls or across two corners
symmetrical placement where the speakers are the same distance from walls and corners. This is the worst placement because both speakers will produce the same few resonances and they will be at double the magnitude than if the speakers were placed randomly in the room.

Stats with Flat panels work anywhere

Thanks Scott..

I've had both 57's and 63's before and could only get them to work well away from the back wall... It's an itch I still have that makes me think again about them, but I'm probably barking up the wrong tree

[Barry]

Stats with curved panels are Dipoles need space at the back as the radiate sound front & back like a figure of 8 pattern, suppose you could put curtains/diffusers behind
or try 5 degrees off centre speaker placement to reduce room nodes , place them non parallel to the walls or across two corners
symmetrical placement where the speakers are the same distance from walls and corners. This is the worst placement because both speakers will produce the same few resonances and they will be at double the magnitude than if the speakers were placed randomly in the room.

Stats with Flat panels work anywhere

Not true - all electrostatics are dipoles, curved or not.

Sorry Bev, the Quads need at least 3 foot clearence behind each speaker.

[Audio Al]

Sorry Bev, the Quads need at least 3 foot clearance behind each speaker. :scratch:

My 57's and 63's sound mighty fine and are not 3 foot from the rear wall :D

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Is there anyone using any ESL's near to a back wall ??

Yes, ESL57's I have here are on brackets from the wooden beam above a window, that hold them at ear level, I have tried bringing them further out but this not as good as having them close to the wall where they sound best. Its a rather unique room dimension. If they are moved away from the wall sound becomes lost as there is then a alcove, so close to wall is much better

Cheers / Chris

[Ammonite Audio]

My 57s are necessarily placed closer to the rear wall than normally recommended, but they sound fine, with some broadband absorption placed behind. Although not particularly pretty, a cheapo memory-foam mattress works very well as the necessary broadband absorber, because it has the necessary thickness to work at lowish frequencies. Pillows, duvets and cushions can also be used to good effect.

[Gordon Steadman]

I've used 57s in all sorts of situations and never had the 'accepted wisdom' problems. OK, they may sound their best in open space but they still sound better than anything else I've heard even in the non ideal position.

I have had them a foot from the rear wall but had it lined with books.

[walpurgis]

I've used them in my small listening room, close to the rear wall with very decent results.

They'll be a bit of a culture shock after your Klipsch's though Bev.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Buy a pair from one thing audio, I paid 1300 for a very nice fully restored pair and have never regretted it. Once you have paid you should have nothing to worry about they do an excellent service. I have no links to them but can heartily recommend them. I also find my 57s work better about 2-3 feet from the back wall and about 2 feet from the side walls. Also better 15" off the floor.

[Ammonite Audio]

Buy a pair from one thing audio, I paid 1300 for a very nice fully restored pair and have never regretted it. Once you have paid you should have nothing to worry about they do an excellent service. I have no links to them but can heartily recommend them. I also find my 57s work better about 2-3 feet from the back wall and about 2 feet from the side walls. Also better 15" off the floor.

I will also recommend One Thing Audio without hesitation. There is a school of thought, often expressed on internet forums, that the sainted Peter Walker knew best and anything that deviates from the original design is wrong. One Thing make some important changes to the panels and crossovers that make them much more 'modern' sounding, which is quite a departure from the sound of a pair of tired originals; and One Thing go to great lengths to state that their speaker is not intended to be like the original. We all have different tastes and preferences, but I find the One Thing 57s to give (almost) the best of all worlds, being very nicely balanced in sound, very vibrant and with respectable bass (bearing in mind that dipoles will never 'do' deep bass anyway). One Thing always fit their input protection board, and that means no risk of over-driving the speakers and getting arcing.

The Quads are very amplifier dependent, though. I use mine with a Lyngdorf Class D amplifier and the pairing is sublime. Whatever horrible loads that the speakers present to the amp, it shrugs them off with ease. Contrast that with my Sony TA-F770ES, which sounds worse than dire with the Quads. I suspect that Bev's OTO would be fine, as long as she doesn't expect to get a great volume of sound. As noted above, they do benefit from being lifted up a bit, and the One Thing Rupert stands are a not-too-expensive way of achieving this.

The two pieces of equipment in my audio collection that I will never part with are my Thorens TD-124 and the Quad 57s. Everyone needs to own a pair of Quad 57s at some time, preferably a well-restored pair that are working correctly.

[Gordon Steadman]

One Thing rebuilt mine ten years ago and they still sound wonderful. Can certainly recommend them. Whether you like the sound of their updated ones or the originals is down to your ears of course. Mine are as original except for the clamp board. I have heard talk that it spoils the sound but I tend to put that in the same bin as all the other obsessive's comments. Given the possibility of arcing the panels through overdriving, it seems a sensible addition.

[Ammonite Audio]

One Thing's panels have a different construction and frequency response to the originals and (I believe) they change some of the crossover component values too. The 'fresher' sound that they produce is very much to my liking.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I use my 57's with a Croft (preamp) / Radford (power amp) combo to very good effect. They even do rock music but I mainly listen to jazz and classical on them.

[Ninanina]

I've used them in my small listening room, close to the rear wall with very decent results.

They'll be a bit of a culture shock after your Klipsch's though Bev.

Hi Geoff
I know the sound of the ESL's very well indeed and wish I'd never sold my perfect pair of 57's, :doh::doh: and while I absolutely love my Klipsch I did say that one day, when I have the correct house room, I would have another ESL at some point... OR a pair of Klipschorns...but the big Klipsch are a bit expensive.. I can get a new pair for about £3k 'ish. However I cannot believe the crazy cheap prices of 63's at the moment

There isn't going to be any change in my house room anytime soon so I am just thinking how I could get a set of ESL's to work with what I have NOW...

It would be a complete change of system (apart from my source) as there is no way my Audio Note Oto is ever going to drive a set of ESL's

I have a funny feeling that probably the best amp for the ESL's might well be a Quad 405-2 with 44 Pre ..... unless anyone can tell me what they are using to drive theirs? even though I am really a valve nut through and through....

As a 'by-the-by' I care for someone who is quite unwell which has completely changed the way I look at life.... I now say "if I want something then get it now before it's too late" .... It's very strange how life experiences changes the way you look at life.... hope that made some sense ;) It explains WHY I purchased the rather expensive SLIC interconnect.... I liked it and said "I'll buy it" tomorrow might never come.... I know that's a bit deep and I'm sorry about that but it certainly focuses the mind ..... believe me... !!!

If I do go the ESL route I wouldn't sell my AN Oto amp straight away as I love the amp and would obviously make sure the ESL worked in my room first....

So IF I could put some damping material behind a set of 63's (not pretty but necessary I think!) do those that use them think that'd work ?? or will I just annoy my neighbour with their 'rear firing' ? :(

I also wonder if i'd miss not having the Oto in the system, as I do love what this amp does,....or could much cheaper amps ie. the 405, 44 etc etc, WITH ESL's, be a match, or maybe even be superior, that I'd not miss the AN ??

I hope some of that made sense

Any help and/or opinions are VERY welcome as this would represent a MASSIVE change in my system..... I just do love the ESL sound, and I am prepared to change the system to accommodate them ...:D

[Barry]

My experience is with the original Quad 57s. I have used these for the last forty years with a variety of amplification.

Most of it has been of Quad manufacture (2 x II valve, 303, 2 x 50E and 405-1 and 405-2 solid state), though I have also used an Electrocompaniet 25W SS amp and a Radford STA15/III valve amp. Preamplifiers have been the Quad 22 valve and Quad 33 and 44 SS designs.

I now use a pair of Mark Levinson ML-2 amplifiers. These are 25W pure class A monoblocks and are fed by a Mark Levinson ML 25/26 or ML 28 preamp.

If you want to use valve amplification, I would recommend either a Radford STA15/III or STA 25/III (or the 'Renaissance' version) fed by a Croft preamp. Don't bother with the SC22 preamp, it is easily out-performed by the Croft.

[spendorman]

As with all speakers, the room has an effect and each room is different, if the ESL's sound OK near a wall, fine. As for amps, how about a well serviced Quad 303? There is a synergy with these and the ESL57. Some details here:

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/57and303/interact.html

I must check out my two pairs of 57's, been in a spare room for about 20 years, should really double stack them. I have a Radford STA25 III, and remember that working the 57's quite nicely.

[Ninanina]

Alex I did run the 57's with a 33 / 303 combination to great affect

[spendorman]

Alex I did run the 57's with a 33 / 303 combination to great affect

The 33 as you probably know might have been the weakest link. It's was years before I realized how good the 303 amps are, ditching the 33. Not saying that the 33 is really bad, I still have one, but other pre-amps, or no pr-amp can be better.

[Ninanina]

I somehow think that ESL's and my Klipsch probably have something in common...... I think they are both very fast...for different reasons though...

Of course, the ESL has a very lightweight Mylar film but the Klipsch have tiny diaphrams (projected by horn's) and I think they are similar in some ways....

I might be talking a load of c**p though... but that's my thoughts about both speakers

Would I miss what the Klipsch do?? that is quite possible as I love them to bits.... but who knows until I try ....

[spendorman]

Not familiar with your Klipsch's, I'm assuming that they are not Klipschorn's, my friend's father was Technical Manager for Vitavox, and in his front room was a full size Klipschorn. Well, it had transient response, efficiency, bass that could make the walls shake with only a few watts input, but, speakers such as the Quad ESL's, LS3/5a's. Spendor BC1's had more natural midrange and treble.

[Ninanina]

Not familiar with your Klipsch's, I'm assuming that they are not Klipschorn's, my friend's father was Technical Manager for Vitavox, and in his front room was a full size Klipschorn. Well, it had transient response, efficiency, bass that could make the walls shake with only a few watts input, but, speakers such as the Quad ESL's, LS3/5a's. Spendor BC1's had more natural midrange and treble.

Alex I would describe my Klipsch Heresys as 'little Klipschorn's'.... they do the dynamics as do the mighty K'horn's but without the bass.. in fact the bass is probably the thing lacking from the Heresy's but that suits me perfect as I think it's bass that upsets neighbours the most as it carries the most through walls

Having said that the BEST speaker I have EVER heard was a pair of Klipsch La Scalas which are close to the K'horns in so many ways.... quite a superb speaker... I heard them with a very old 300b amp that was literally falling to bits but the sound, in a huge warehouse setting, was quite amazing....!! :drool::drool:

I did try to fit the La Scalas into my front room of the time but they just didn't fit .....

[Ninanina]

I own a lovely pair of LS 3/5a's and while I DID think they were quite superb, everytime I plumbed them back into the system (while I had a more powerful amp, of course!!) I found them quite boring.... at one time I would have said they were the best speaker in the world but after so much equipment has passed by me I think they are quite lacking in every way..... funny how your perceptions change so drastically isn't it ??

[walpurgis]

Well I tried (borrowed) a couple of pairs of the little buggers with decent SS amps and valves and was never impressed enough to want them. At the time my little Cura CA5's were miles better.

[spendorman]

Well, sit a good pair of LS3/5a's (Chartwell 15 Ohm in my case) on top of some Quad ESL63's, as I did over 20 years ago, and compare. The balance of sound is quite similar. Pretty good for such a small speaker.

Still have my Chartwells, but I prefer using LS3/6's.

[Ninanina]

Well I tried (borrowed) a couple of pairs of the little buggers with decent SS amps and valves and was never impressed enough to want them. At the time my little Cura CA5's were miles better.

Yeah I've gone through soo much equipment since the LS 3/5a's and to be honest i've bettered them most times..... HOWEVER I still have them and I just never wanted to part with them... I THINK that is because at one point I really did rate them and I can't get that out of my head.. I was using a perfect amp for them at the time too.... a Rogers E-40....which was, strangely enough, made by Audio Note for Rogers.... it was the perfect partner for the LS 3/5a's

I sent the amp back as it had a bad hum and then stopped using the 3/5a's at the same time and not used them since

[Ninanina]

Well, sit a good pair of LS3/5a's (Chartwell 15 Ohm in my case) on top of some Quad ESL63's, as I did over 20 years ago, and compare. The balance of sound is quite similar. Pretty good for such a small speaker.

Still have my Chartwells, but I prefer using LS3/6's.

Alex are the LS 3/6's similar sounding to the BC1 ? they seem to have similar hardware ' ish...

[spendorman]

Alex are the LS 3/6's similar sounding to the BC1 ? they seem to have similar hardware ' ish...

Well, I rebuilt my LS3/6's recently, the details are on the Yahoo Spendor Group, yes they are quite similar, I have BC1's as well. I prefer the rebuilt LS3'6's, have better controlled bass, better mids, the units integrate better than BC1's, and the power handling is better. The LS3/6's have replacement bass units, Dalesford, similar to units used in the Rogers Export Monitor, which is a development of the LS3/6. For the rebuild I did have some very useful input from the son of one of the engineers that worked on several BBC Monitors.

The LS3'6's work very nicely on the Radford STA25 III. I have not tried the Quad 303 with them as yet.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Hi Geoff
I know the sound of the ESL's very well indeed and wish I'd never sold my perfect pair of 57's, :doh::doh: and while I absolutely love my Klipsch I did say that one day, when I have the correct house room, I would have another ESL at some point... OR a pair of Klipschorns...but the big Klipsch are a bit expensive.. I can get a new pair for about £3k 'ish. However I cannot believe the crazy cheap prices of 63's at the moment

There isn't going to be any change in my house room anytime soon so I am just thinking how I could get a set of ESL's to work with what I have NOW...

It would be a complete change of system (apart from my source) as there is no way my Audio Note Oto is ever going to drive a set of ESL's

I have a funny feeling that probably the best amp for the ESL's might well be a Quad 405-2 with 44 Pre ..... unless anyone can tell me what they are using to drive theirs? even though I am really a valve nut through and through....

As a 'by-the-by' I care for someone who is quite unwell which has completely changed the way I look at life.... I now say "if I want something then get it now before it's too late" .... It's very strange how life experiences changes the way you look at life.... hope that made some sense ;) It explains WHY I purchased the rather expensive SLIC interconnect.... I liked it and said "I'll buy it" tomorrow might never come.... I know that's a bit deep and I'm sorry about that but it certainly focuses the mind ..... believe me... !!!

If I do go the ESL route I wouldn't sell my AN Oto amp straight away as I love the amp and would obviously make sure the ESL worked in my room first....

So IF I could put some damping material behind a set of 63's (not pretty but necessary I think!) do those that use them think that'd work ?? or will I just annoy my neighbour with their 'rear firing' ? :(

I also wonder if i'd miss not having the Oto in the system, as I do love what this amp does,....or could much cheaper amps ie. the 405, 44 etc etc, WITH ESL's, be a match, or maybe even be superior, that I'd not miss the AN ??

I hope some of that made sense

Any help and/or opinions are VERY welcome as this would represent a MASSIVE change in my system..... I just do love the ESL sound, and I am prepared to change the system to accommodate them ...:D

Regarding power amplifiers for the ESL57, the requirements are not to overdrive them, but also to drive them an awkward scenario as a result of their impedance. Regarding preamps you need a LDR based pre as otherwise you will always color the sound, and never get to hear what the ESL can do, the benefit too here is you are attenuating not amplifying your source component assisting the first requirement. The perfect combo to my ears is an LDR based preamp and one of quads current dumping models, the 405 requiring the input Keith Snook mod at the very least so be prepared for modifications. The 306 is excellent. If you want to use a 303 these are great too and a really good match to the ESL57. You need to hear a 303 vs a 306 with a LDR based preamp as there are merits in each with the ESL57. the 306 is the better choice today I think

Other than Quads lower powered amps you could look at Naim 140 or valve based designs to 30w

Cheers / Chris

[walpurgis]

Have you considered maybe a pair of Martin Logan electrostatics Bev? They still have the typical E/S sound.

They're easier to accomodate and can sound wonderful in the right system and most models have active bass subwoofers making them easy to match to your power amp. Prices are likely to be similar or maybe slightly higher than the Quads for good examples.

[irb]

Is there anyone using any ESL's near to a back wall ??

Several years ago I used 57s in a small room where they had to be up against the back wall. It did affect the sound quite severely - muddy and thickened in the lower frequencies - but they still sounded lovely. They sounded best with Quad II power amps. I could never get them to sound right with anything else.

[Audio Al]

They sounded best with Quad II power amps

:D:eyebrows: Oh YES ;)

[Gordon Steadman]

As far as what amp to drive 57s with, I have used MF A100, Quad 306, 405, 50Ds, Leak Stereo 20 and Firebottle OTL. All have sounded great. The last three were very close with Alan's OTL just having it at the frequency extremes. I have always used a passive pre-amp.

For the last few weeks I've had the Leak back in the system and, together with the Creek passive, it sounds wonderful.

[wee tee cee]

I run 63s with a pair of temple mono blocks and a tisbury audio passive pre.....marvelous combo IMHO. The 63s need a bit of space behind them about 3ft in my room and raising them up about a foot on spendor castor stands with a smidgeon of toe in helps.
Saving up my pocket money at the moment to get one thing audio to work theyre majik.

Note to self....dont go on holiday with two berringer amps wired up leaving a 20 year old son with a penchant for radiohead and loud parties!!!!

[dowser]

57s vs 63s - after 18 months of swapping I kept the 63s.

One of the reasons was that 63s were more location flexible - I currently have them around 2 feet from rear wall, but not parallel to wall (I fire them across the triangle of the room); they sound excellent. Good luck!