View Full Version : Valve amps & X-rays - we're all gonna DIE!!!
Worry not, a Wiki-taught 'valve expert' (whom we shouldn't mention) is telling us now that we're all gonna DIE from radiation exposure......!!! :lol: :lol:
We're all DOOMED, I tells ya, DOOOMMEED... :acid:
Marco.
anthonyTD
06-08-2014, 12:23
Sorry to the folk who may have read this and not have a clue as to what i was referring to, i will elaborate a bit more for those who care to read my ramblings, and to those who don’t, please accept my sincere apologies. Valves specifically designed for; and therefore when used within the parameters needed for the reproduction of Audio frequencies are; within the current laws deemed safe for purpose, in the same sense as Bananas are fit for human consumption. Wikipedia will I am sure explain my reasoning for mentioning the two in the same context!
There are many companies still using, and designing new equipment based around audio frequency vacuum valves/tubes, ie Marshall, Orange, Matchless, Fender, McIntosh, Audio Research, Mesa Boogie, etc, etc, and the list goes on, When Audio frequency valve amps adhere to the laws currently imposed, ie; the safety aspects and liability risks that any consumer products of a similar nature has to, valve amplifiers are safe and Legal, I just wanted to clarify things, after all, we are not talking about CRT’s, Radiography, or any vacuum valve or’ related circuitry designed for completely different uses, if anyone is interested in the history, and usage of the Humble vacuum valve in industry, Medical, broadcasting etc, then Wikipedia is a great source. :)
Not in the slightest,:eyebrows:
They can share the same shelves as my illegal valve amps! :doh::rolleyes:
At last some sense, as opposed to scaremongering and misleading people, for the sake of some (unsuccessful) petty point scoring, simply because a manufacturer of solid-state amplifiers seeks to discredit the use of valve amplifiers, in order to fulfil his biased and self-centered commercial agendas.
As they say in Glasgow: 'get it right up ye!' :upyours:
Marco.
Ali Tait
06-08-2014, 13:35
My understanding is that between about 1kV and 20kV is required to produce weak x-rays, which have the ability to pass through 0.1mm of glass, so I won't be losing any sleep over being irradiated by my valve amps. 20kV or more would be required to produce stronger X-rays. Don't know anyone that runs valve amps at that level LOL
My understanding is that between about 1kV and 20kV is required to produce weak x-rays, which have the ability to pass through 0.1mm of glass, so I won't be losing any sleep over being irradiated by my valve amps. 20kV or more would be required to produce stronger X-rays. Don't know anyone that runs valve amps at that level LOL
Exactly, mate.
Marco.
Ali Tait
06-08-2014, 13:44
He might give off his own x-rays ☺
Your microwave is more likely to harm you than a valve amp.
Especially used on full power with your head rammed inside it.... ;)
Marco.
I miss my valve amp, it saved me a fortune on tanning fees... :lol:
yLSu_UjrcUA&feature=youtu.be
I wouldn't be overly concerned.
S'ok, Mark. I'm about as 'concerned' about the effect of X-rays from valves (in audio use), as I am about the size, shape and density of the last jobby I plopped into the pan... ;)
Interesting vid, though!
Marco.
Beobloke
07-08-2014, 08:26
This is a bizarre thread. What the heck prompted it?! :scratch:
You have to be 'in the know', Adam... Let's just say that a certain 'infamous' solid-state amplifier manufacturer [who knows next to hee-haw about valve amplifier design] has been spouting utter bollocks about valve amps and X-ray radiation, which in the interests of accuracy, deserves to be highlighted and addressed for the blinkered nonsense that it is! ;)
Marco.
This is a bizarre thread. What the heck prompted it?! :scratch:
He who must not be mentioned has taken it upon himself to declare that valve amps are mini Chernobyl's lurking in your living room :D
Calling all those with decent Photoshop skills: Please, please, PLEASE photoshop some valves onto a photo of the Fukushima reactor flipping its lid!!!
Are all you gentlemen suffering with the heat? The HiFi version of the silly season perhaps?
I am reminded why I did not post for a month or so.
And the problem is, Alan? :)
If it's about the fact that 'he who must not be named', is inadvertently being discussed, then in this instance, I make no apologies for that.
99% of the 'un-nameable one's' [for the sake of politeness, let's call it 'output'], is ignored (and rightly so), however now and then truly outrageous statements of supposed 'fact', in relation to audio, are twisted out of all context, simply to further an agenda - and when that happens, such statements will be highlighted and challenged accordingly, simply to provide balance and prevent misleading information, placed in the public domain, from being accepted as true by those who may not know any better.
Marco.
And the problem is, Alan? :)
If it's about the fact that 'he who must not be named', is inadvertently being discussed, then in this instance, I make no apologies for that.
99% of the 'un-nameable one's' [for the sake of politeness, let's call it 'output'] is ignored (and rightly so), however now and then truly outrageous statements of supposed 'fact', in relation to audio, are twisted out of all context by him, simply to further an agenda - and when that happens, such statements will be highlighted and challenged accordingly, simply to provide some balance and prevent misleading statements from being accepted as true by those who don't know any better.
Marco.
Thank you for taking the time to explain your point of view. I will leave you and kindred spirits to your pleasure.
Cheers! :thumbsup:
Marco.
anubisgrau
07-08-2014, 09:10
the trouble is that more lethal a tube is the better it sounds.... like nothing can beat mercury vapor rectifiers. a source of my big frustration, whenever i hear an amp with them, i want that in my room...
brian2957
07-08-2014, 09:12
At last some sense, as opposed to scaremongering and misleading people, for the sake of some (unsuccessful) petty point scoring, simply because a manufacturer of solid-state amplifiers seeks to discredit the use of valve amplifiers, in order to fulfil his biased and self-centered commercial agendas.
As they say in Glasgow: 'get it right up ye!' :upyours:
Marco.
Ye can't say that ye'll get banned :lol:
Forget valve amps. The real danger is your turntable. It may look harmless enough, sitting there on its splendid isolation. But if it got the chance it would kill you and everyone you care about. Don't be fooled!
Ye can't say that ye'll get banned :lol:
Sometimes a little passionate 'over-exuberance' gets the point across rather more succinctly! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Forget valve amps. The real danger is your turntable. It may look harmless enough, sitting there on its splendid isolation. But if it got the chance it would kill you and everyone you care about. Don't be fooled!
If you drop mine on Saturday, carrying it out of the car and into the NEBO 4 venue, the above could indeed become a reality!! ;)
Marco.
The Black Adder
07-08-2014, 09:27
I've just eaten 3 bananas... SHIT! - My teeth are falling out!... HHAHAA!!!!
Beobloke
07-08-2014, 09:27
You have to be 'in the know', Adam... Let's just say that a certain 'infamous' solid-state amplifier manufacturer [who knows next to hee-haw about valve amplifier design] has been spouting utter bollocks about valve amps and X-ray radiation, which in the interests of accuracy, deserves to be highlighted and addressed for the blinkered nonsense that it is! ;)
Marco.
Well, clearly I'm not in the know and, frankly, more than happy for it to stay that way.
That said, though, your first post menioned "Wiki-taught". Presumably you're referring to Wikipedia and, if this is true, then the person in question can safely be ignored. Attempting to gain knowledge from a non peer-reviewed website that anyone can alter is not exactly the optimum route to factual accuracy!
brian2957
07-08-2014, 09:28
Aye gotta give you 10/10 for that mate . Sometimes there's only one way to get your point across . Glasgow patter is quite good for that :lol:
That said, though, your first post menioned "Wiki-taught". Presumably you're referring to Wikipedia and, if this is true, then the person in question can safely be ignored. Attempting to gain knowledge from a non peer-reviewed website that anyone can alter is not exactly the optimum route to factual accuracy!
Hahahaha - and don't we know it! Trouble is, it (very superficially) makes said person look clever to the gullible!!
Marco.
I've just eaten 3 bananas... SHIT! - My teeth are falling out!... HHAHAA!!!!
That's the least of yer worries, mate... Wait to yer willy falls off!!! :lol: :rofl:
Marco.
I assume most of us have spent some time sitting in front of a CRT display in some form or another (which is, to all intents and purposes, a particle accelerator), in which case most of us went 'ping' a long time ago. Now, if you go inside a valve amp and root around with your fingers shortly after switching off you may well end up looking like a crispy Ken Dodd, that is a fact...
20kV or more would be required to produce stronger X-rays. Don't know anyone that runs valve amps at that level LOL
Don't show that to Phil, for God's sake Ali. You'll give him ideas...
anthonyTD
07-08-2014, 10:47
Of course the real risk with valves to the general public is the heat they disapate' and thus the reason i stated in my earlier post about valve amps adering to the current laws. All comercially produced valve amplifiers either have their valves concealed in casework, ie guitar amplifiers in genral, or they are provided with some form of guard to prevent the consumer from actually being able to come into contact with the valves in genral useage, of course if the user decides he wants to run the amp without the protection in place then that is the risk he/she is willing to take on themselves. Would you remove the heatsinks from your bipolar solid state amps and hold onto them untill they destroyed themselves and get burnt just to prove a point, i dont think so.
Finally' All valve amplifiers use some form of high voltage rails, After all, thats how they work,
As far as anyone wanting to take the bottom of their amps and sticking their fingers in there, well' all i can say to that is, would you remove the spark plug lead from your car when it was running and hold onto it ? :eek:
A...
brian2957
07-08-2014, 10:55
Used to be a mechanic in a prior life Anthony :) so got the badge for that mate ( quite a few times BTW ) :lol:
Used to be a mechanic in a prior life Barry so got the badge for that mate ( quite a few times BTW ) :lol:
I think you mean "Anthony". ;)
brian2957
07-08-2014, 11:01
Sorry guys , nightshift does things like that to me . TBH with you an egg timer lasts longer than my memory these days . :lol:
PaulStewart
07-08-2014, 11:28
Of course the real risk with valves to the general public is the heat they disapate' and thus the reason i stated in my earlier post about valve amps adering to the current laws. All comercially produced valve amplifiers either have their valves concealed in casework, ie guitar amplifiers in genral, or they are provided with some form of guard to prevent the consumer from actually being able to come into contact with the valves in genral useage, of course if the user decides he wants to run the amp without the protection in place then that is the risk he/she is willing to take on themselves.
This does have an advantage, many moons ago my sister in law was worried that their oldest who was starting to crawl about inquisitively and was getting interested in the valves of my brother's Quad 11s. Being a selfless and caring young uncle, I said well if you like I'll swop my nice new Armstrong 621 for your out of date Quads, just to keep the baby safe mind :) I don't think he's ever really forgiven me :lol:
anthonyTD
07-08-2014, 11:32
:eyebrows: nice one! :)
This does have an advantage, many moons ago my sister in law was worried that their oldest who was starting to crawl about inquisitively and was getting interested in the valves of my brother's Quad 11s. Being a selfless and caring young uncle, I said well if you like I'll swop my nice new Armstrong 621 for you out of date Quads, just to keep the baby safe mind :) I don't think he's ever really forgiven me :lol:
So for thoriated tungsten filaments in high power triodes, when fired up would a Geiger counter notice any difference to ambient radiation when placed close by the tube(s)?
You'll get more radiation off the geiger counter itself than you will off the valve amp.
The Black Adder
07-08-2014, 12:46
You'll get more radiation off the geiger counter itself than you will off the valve amp.
Or a watches luminous dial for that matter.
You'll get more radiation off the geiger counter itself than you will off the valve amp.
Those filaments are radioactive. So does the glass absorb it???
Ali Tait
07-08-2014, 13:39
Yes, at the voltages used in audio amps. 20kV or more would be required for x-rays to make it past the glass.
Ali Tait
07-08-2014, 13:41
Don't show that to Phil, for God's sake Ali. You'll give him ideas...
He doesn't need any more bad ideas, he's already got the 833 tea trolley! 😄
, he's already got the 833 tea trolley! ��
I can only imagine....
Ali Tait
07-08-2014, 14:40
It's a fine sounding amp, but has some high voltages.
Or a watches luminous dial for that matter.
They stopped using radium salts in “luminous” paint in the ‘60s. Since then, modern watches have used a paint, which is designed to fluoresce (that is, will glow for a while after the external illumination is removed, but will not glow permanently in the dark).
So for thoriated tungsten filaments in high power triodes, when fired up would a Geiger counter notice any difference to ambient radiation when placed close by the tube(s)?
Thorium is an alpha emitter. Alpha particles have relatively low kinetic energy and are easily absorbed by a few cm of air, or even by a sheet of paper. The glass envelope of the valve would easily absorb all the alpha particles eminating from the thoriated filaments.
Yes, at the voltages used in audio amps. 20kV or more would be required for x-rays to make it past the glass.
A half decent Geiger counter might see something. I'd like to verify it with one just for the hell of it. It'll probably never happen, though:(
BTH K10A
07-08-2014, 22:41
I have some valves that use uranium glass to seal the top and top/side comnnector pins. I also have some lampshades that are made of the same. All glow bright green under black light :eek:
Old crt tvs can emit a small amount of xrays but very little.(and they get 26k voltage into them)you'd need to have your head pressed agin it permanent to catch any... the screen is protected with lead to reflect them...I worked with tv's in the 60/70's and am still alive, so obviously it is pretty harmless, mind u I do glow in dark occasionally:eek:
Firebottle
08-08-2014, 06:32
You must tell me what your choice of amber nectar is to make you glow in the dark http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/images/smiles/glasses9.gif
In my yoof I worked in a TV repair shop on Saturdays, this was at the time when the first colour TVs were introduced. There was a model by Decca that used a valve to stabilise the 25kV eht. Normally this was heavily screened by the chassis work, which incidentally had a large label warning of X ray radiation if removed. Well the proprietor of the shop was a dear old codger and didn't take any notice of this when mending these said TVs.
I walked past one time when all the covers were off and felt quite funny http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/images/smiles/blob8.gif, maybe this explains a lot :scratch:
:cool: Alan
... mind u I do glow in dark occasionally:eek:
It's that cheap blusher you're using, dahling! :eyebrows:
Marco.
The Black Adder
08-08-2014, 07:29
I have a CRT portable that I'd like someone to take a look at for me but not sure if there is anyone still out there servicing the old TV's.
Beobloke
08-08-2014, 07:48
I have a CRT portable that I'd like someone to take a look at for me but not sure if there is anyone still out there servicing the old TV's.
Ask around on the Vintage Radio Repair Forum here - http://85.92.85.233/forum/forum/index.php
The Black Adder
08-08-2014, 08:29
cool... thanks, Adam.
I have some valves that use uranium glass to seal the top and top/side comnnector pins. I also have some lampshades that are made of the same. All glow bright green under black light :eek:
The green glow is the glass fluorescing. They won't glow at all unless illuminated by UV (black light).
Interesting, uranium glass is sometimes referred to as 'Vaseline Glass'.
BTH K10A
08-08-2014, 15:31
It 'a Uranium in the glass that fluoresces. The glass workers never used to last long
The Black Adder
08-08-2014, 15:35
It's great to have knowledgeable people here... Valves are still a bit magical to me in the fundamentals of how they actually work and when implemented well can make such a huge difference.
It's great to have knowledgeable people here...
Indeed, unlike in other places populated by clueless buffoons, like 'Wiki-boy'! ;)
Marco.
It 'a Uranium in the glass that fluoresces. The glass workers never used to last long
What I was trying to say was, it is not the uranium itself which is causing the fluorescence (or any radioactivity of the uranium), the fluorescence is activated by the UV light. The glass won't glow by itself without the UV.
You must tell me what your choice of amber nectar is to make you glow in the dark http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/images/smiles/glasses9.gif
In my yoof I worked in a TV repair shop on Saturdays, this was at the time when the first colour TVs were introduced. There was a model by Decca that used a valve to stabilise the 25kV eht. Normally this was heavily screened by the chassis work, which incidentally had a large label warning of X ray radiation if removed. Well the proprietor of the shop was a dear old codger and didn't take any notice of this when mending these said TVs.
I walked past one time when all the covers were off and felt quite funny http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/images/smiles/blob8.gif, maybe this explains a lot :scratch:
:cool: Alan
Wouldn't have been one of these??
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/536/fi3ZQN.jpg
The green glow is the glass fluorescing. They won't glow at all unless illuminated by UV (black light).
Interesting, uranium glass is sometimes referred to as 'Vaseline Glass'.
think that is uranus glass:stalks::lol:
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