Another 1200 being modded

[Another Andy]

Another 1200 being modded

So, I have had my 1200 mk2 for a few years now, it has had little use due to 2 children getting in the way.
But the time has come to tinker, so here we go.

I knew my deck had had a quiet life as i purchased it from an old guy on ebay who had the full technics set up
but had recently lost most of his hearing. He had managed to sell everything else but the other bidder didn’t want the deck!!

After cleaning everything with alcohol to get rid of the furniture polish it was covered with I realised this had had very little use.

I took the deck to my local hi-fi dealer who put a new cartridge on and set it up for me (still not figured out setting up a cartridge).
We plugged it into his system at the time (£10k speakers, Naim everything else) and it sounded sweet, was very happy!

A few years on and two children later I have managed to listen to it about 50 times and have loved every revolution, but I had some spare cash and a little time
so decided to have a play!



So far I have:

Removed and cleaned the bearing, just waiting for some oil to be delivered. the bearing appears to be in great condition, very little wear, it any, to the plate in the base.

Shorted out the pitch control, never used it.

Removed the transformer and am making an external PSU as per the thread on here, just waiting for a case to arrive!
I am going to leave the stock regulator for a while, it should be up to the task for a few more months. And I can’t find a thread on here showing in enough detail for me what to do! Maybe someone could PM me???
Purchased an Achromat, had a sorbothane thing on there before but never liked the sound, it was very dead in the mid.
Re-used the power switch to switch the strobe light.
And after a few emails to j7 have had my arm re-wired and foam packed.


I know people say you should go one step at a time and listen to your deck after each tweak, but to be honest I haven’t the time at the moment. So I am taking this tweaked deck
as a starting point and going from there.
What will happen next I’m not sure, maybe a new cartridge, maybe a new phono stage, probably more vinyl.

I hope there will be photos to come once I have figured out how to upload them, though I tend to forget to take any whilst I’m working!

It has been great reading the other threads on this site, and good to know that this is a loved deck.

A

[Andrei]

Nice one Andy.
In the Techipedia you surely have come to the right place:
Photos: I take heaps every step of the way because I know I have to put the contraption back together after I have taken it apart.
I would say the next step should be isolation - Isonoe feet are popular, but one or or another isolation from vibration is one of the cheapest and most efficacious mods.
The platter can be modded - you could buy an aftermarket platter but have a look at my thread here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?29662-DIY-Platter or possibly even better look at the first post here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31703-Technics-SL-1210-Mk2-Techie-SR-v-1-0 there is a pic of some STP used for damping. The nice thing about these tweaks is they they do not cost much, though mine is rather labour intensive.

[ChrisKemp]

Hi Andy.

Sounds to me you are on the right track:) Good move to put on an Achromat. Much better sound than rubber mats. I had one, but sold it last month and bought an Oyaide platter/ Oyaide thin rubber mat (goes under the Oyaide). The Oyaide is even better than the Achromat, but much more expensive too.

Also a good choise to remove the PSU out of the TT. I use the PSU from Mains Cables R Us and the upgrade was pretty huge.

Since you have re-wired the arm, I can suggest the KAB Fluid Damper. With the rewired arm and the Fluid Damper, you must pay much more to get a better arm, IMHO.

What Riaa do you use. The Riaa does so much to the sound. I have tried several and found it to be wiser to upgrade Riaa before cartrigde.

Looking forward to following your next move and take some pics:)

[dimkasta]

Andrei I love your Dynamat idea... I will certainly try it...

BTW, have you tried dynamat on the rest of the chassis? For example on the cavity below the platter or even on the backside of the pcb?

[Andrei]

Damping the platter really does work. To be honest Dimmy, I suspect Samuli's method would be as good and a lot less work. I have a couple of spare platters and if I can get my hands on some STP I will try out his method. Yes I have put dynamat all throughout the inside of the turntable and a little underneath also where you can see the bearing well. In theory that should be an improvement in sound but as I had done another upgrade at the same time I cannot be sure, let alone try to quantify anything. I am a big fan of Dynamat and used heaps of it on my car: footwell, doors, boot - makes the ride quieter.

If anyone wants a prototype of my platter I have a spare to give away - PM me - but I guess the shipping cost from NZ would be substantial.

[dimkasta]

A curing liquid should be really suspicious of self balancing... especially if bubbles form...

In any case, the platter has no significant height, so static balancing should be more than enough if we take its rigidity in consideration. And it should be pretty easy to balance at home by just tilting the turntable around 30 degs allowing the heavier side of the platter to rotate down. Then you either glue a counter weight on the light side, or you drill some small holes on the heavy side removing material (that is what technics was doing on MK1 if I remember correctly)

[Another Andy]

Thank you all for a great response to my first post on here, nice to feel so welcome!!

i has wondered about deadening the platter and having used dynamat on the under side of my hifi rack shelves I did think about using it on the platter, was more concerned with cocking it up though.......
How about using a latex based levelling compound? If mixed correctly would level perfectly before setting, may help with platter balance??

Riaa is currently the built in stage of my pre amp, not great I know, but sounds better then the project one I was using before.

Has anyone made a cup for the bearing to submerse the thrust plate in oil? I may replace it at some point, but for the moment thinking what I can do.

oh and I have just ordered the parts for the regulator, though having issues trying to find a non-conductive thermal paste to use, I have a mica plate to go under the LM317 but still need paste.....

Too much going through my head now!

A

[dimkasta]

Too much going through my head now!

A

Welcome to the madness of awesome :)

[6L6]

has wondered about deadening the platter and having used dynamat on the under side of my hifi rack shelves I did think about using it on the platter, was more concerned with cocking it up though.......
How about using a latex based levelling compound? If mixed correctly would level perfectly before setting, may help with platter balance??

Sounds good. Go for it!


Riaa is currently the built in stage of my pre amp, not great I know, but sounds better then the project one I was using before.

Use it until you feel a new project coming on...


Has anyone made a cup for the bearing to submerse the thrust plate in oil? I may replace it at some point, but for the moment thinking what I can do.

Yes, and it works great. Ken made one for me.


oh and I have just ordered the parts for the regulator, though having issues trying to find a non-conductive thermal paste to use, I have a mica plate to go under the LM317 but still need paste.....

Check your PM, I sent you a link. :)

[Another Andy]

Well the children are back from there week in London today so everything has gone back into a safe place, in parts, ready for more time to be spent on it.

Still looking at what upgrades to do, and what to do when.

I have decided to stick with mods that don't cost so much, and mainly mods I can do myself. (see how long that lasts!)
I really can't justify spending more that at the moment as im sure the rest of my system will need an update soon as well.

Anyone tell me how to get photos into these posts? be good to know.

A

[dimkasta]

Below the answer box there is an option that reads "Manage Attachments"

This is where you upload you photos, and then you can insert them inline

[Another Andy]

12949
12950
Pitch control shorted and the power switch being used to switch the strobe lamps.

first mods done!

A

[Wakefield Turntables]

CONGRATS!

[RobbieGong]

Good luck Andy and enjoy the ride ;)

[samurasa]

Good to hear yet another Technics is getting the attention they deserve and it it will be nice to read from about your development Andy!

[Another Andy]

I have read a few posts on here where people have used some sort of mastic between the top plate and the middle plate. Now I can see the reason this would make things more solid but Im not ready to do that with my deck yet.

I was wondering about using a sheet of foam sandwiched between the plates. Maybe an acoustic foam. It would fill in the gaps nicely and though it would not give as solid a fill it may be better than nothing??

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I may not do it to my deck just yet as I have a few tweeks left to do first.

A

[Wakefield Turntables]

It would have to be pretty thin as the screws which hold the inner metal chassis are only approx10mm long and these fit the plinth and inner metal chassis very closely together it would also have to be something that moulded pretty well. I would also caution on TOO MUCH dampening as it can rob some of the vitality out of the 1210.

[Another Andy]

Tweeks so far!

As allways, Don’t mess about with things you don’t understand, electricity kills, not just mains electricity, a shock from a capacitor can easily stop your heart. If you don’t know what your doing let someone else do it for you!!!

I have managed over the last couple of weeks to get a few things done to my deck. It has been a challenge between playing with the kids and work!

I have removed the transformer and started to make an external PSU as per the thread on here. I have managed to find a Hammond box that everything fits in, including the mains filter.

As you can see the transformer is bolted through its rubber mounts to a sheet of veroboard, I have cut a hole in the board to take the winding and reinforced the veroboard with some soldered wire.
The veroboard still has some flex but it is a lot stronger than before.

http://www.theloveopticalcompany.co.uk/images/hifi/tran1.jpg
http://www.theloveopticalcompany.co.uk/images/hifi/tran2.jpg


The rest of the PSU is on veroboard, not the neatest but works and more importantly it fits in the box.

http://www.theloveopticalcompany.co.uk/images/hifi/linedup.jpg
http://www.theloveopticalcompany.co.uk/images/hifi/panel.jpg


I love these mains inlet filters, one hole and you get a switch, inlet, both L and N fused and a filter! Saves time and makes a difference.

I have used a shielded mains cable from the 13A plug top to the IEC inlet and used the same cable to the deck. As allways all cables and mains voltage gear has been PAT tested and checked over with a Megger insulation tester.

Im getting a nice voltage out of the PSU

http://www.theloveopticalcompany.co.uk/images/hifi/tranvolt.jpg
http://www.theloveopticalcompany.co.uk/images/hifi/finalvolt.jpg
http://www.theloveopticalcompany.co.uk/images/hifi/finishedtran.jpg
I have also received a special package in the post from j7!!!

So bearing cleaned and oiled and re-seated on an O ring. I have also removed plastic motor cover. The platter now spins a lot more freely, honestly hadn’t realised how thick the old oil was.

J7 has also rewired my arm with cardas 33ga, foam packed the arm, checked the bearings and sorted the external cable! Very impressed with the work done. Compared with the original arm the foam packing has made a lot of difference to the resonance, rather dead sounding now.

So we are nearly back together and ready to run in!

[Tarzan]

:popcorn::)

[dimkasta]

Nice slippers :) And socks :)

Nice job by the way :fingers:

[6L6]

Fantastic work, glad to see your progress!

Looking forward to more photos. :)

[Another Andy]

All finished (for now) and put back together.

Bearing has been lubricated and I have placed some rubber under the bearing to dampen it a little.
More ferrite than I care to shake a stick at!

http://www.theloveopticalcompany.co.uk/images/hifi/afterinitialtweeks.jpg

I have also fitted the new arm from J7 that has been re-wired with cardas cable.

http://www.theloveopticalcompany.co.uk/images/hifi/newarm.jpg

[Another Andy]

OK,,

So far so good, everything sounding pretty excellent.

I did try and adjust the VTA to find that im right as low as I can go, but would like to go a little further.
Currently using an Achromat on the standard platter and have a goldring 1006 on the techy arm, in a techy headshell, this seems a little odd as it is no thicker than the original felt mat.

I have had a look and cant see anything getting in the way underneath.

Any ideas

A

[6L6]

Place a thin record or perhaps some thick paper under the one you are playing and see if that change in overall SRA is actually going to make a difference in the proper direction...

?

[Another Andy]

Great idea Jim,
Thanks

80gsm paper is 0.1mm very usefull for accurate spacers!

A

[rubber duck]

Alternatively you could disassemble and reassemble the tonearm so that it sits lower to begin with. Plenty of instructions online if not here.

[Another Andy]

Having had a closer look I think that the arm is level, it was where I placed my spirit level that was the issue! the headshell has a slight slope on it and I hadn't noticed!

Got a scale from ebay and have set the weight now as well, my guess was way off! and of course the sound is much better now!!

No more tweeks for a while, spending too much on vinyl.

A

[Macca]

No more tweeks for a while, spending too much on vinyl.

A

Andy no-one has mentioned it up till now and I don't know why but the Technics headshell is not up to much and can be improved on for not a lot of money.

[Another Andy]

bugger, go on then!

reccomendations??
currently using a Goldring 1006, may upgrade to a Ortophon blue at some point, possibly!

A

[Macca]

I swapped mine for the Sumiko:

http://www.turntableworld.co.uk/departments-c49/tonearm-zone-c3/headshells-leads-tags-c37/hs-12-headshell-with-litz-cartridge-leads-p686

And it is clearly better with all of my cartridges, confirmed by swapping back to the stock shell for comparison. BUT the Sumiko is quite heavy so you will need to use the additional counterweight to balance the arm. If you are happy to spend a little more then you could go for one of the lighter magnesium or carbon fibre shells available which would possibly be better - something I intend to try but have not got round to. This one I have my eye on but is at the other end of the scale from the Sumiko, price wise:


http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/analogue-lp-s/91-oyaide-hs-cf-headshell-5052408650412.html

[Another Andy]

Martin,

I see what you mean about other end of the spectrum!

I do have the extra weight if needed, is there any benefit to the headshell being lighter or heavier given that it is counterbalanced?

I would have thought that the extra mass would benefit the overall sound as the cartridge wouldn't move as much??

[Another Andy]

http://www.analogueseduction.net/headshells/audio-technica-at-mg10-headshell.html

??

[Macca]

There is a whole relationship between the mass of the tonearm and the compliance of the cartridge which I couldn't begin to explain but I will see if I can find a thread to link you to since it has been discussed here before more than once. For me I just get an idea that something might work better and then test that idea by trying it :) All I can say for certain is that the Sumiko is noticeably superior to the stock shell, despite needing the additional counter-weight.

[Macca]

This guide from 'The Knowledge' section explains it pretty thoroughly:


http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?22373-Arm-cartridge-resonance

[Another Andy]

I see,

and yes I even understand some of it as well!

Having had a look the umico is a pretty well rated headshell for the price, and my dealer has one in stock!

What do you use to align everything? a job I havnt done before (relied on dealer!) that I should learn about I think!

A

[6L6]

Do you have the mounting jig (white plastic overhang gauge) with the table?

If not, get over to Vinyl Engine and download some protractors. (You need to register for downloads, no big deal)

[Another Andy]

thanks!

[Macca]

Buy the mounting jig off e-bay - it is called a Technics Overhang Gauge. A lot easier than faffing about with protractors, none of which are exactly right for the stock Technics which uses its own alignment. They are about a fiver.

[6L6]

I agree, the overhang gauge is a great way to go, if you can get one, do.

That said, there is a protractor available for Technics (Stevenson) alignment at VE.

[Macca]

I'm sure I have read that although Stevenson is close it is not quite exactly the Technics alignment. I suppose it doesn't matter if not using the stock arm.

[Another Andy]

Originally I asked my dealer to set up my cartridge as I had no idea. I had set it to the 52mm specified by technics.

He used a mirrored gauge from either clear audio or avid and found my cartridge to be rather out.

I have since used the setup he did for me.

(this is part of setting up a deck that I hav'nt tried yet)

is there a right way or a wrong way, or is it just whatever your ears think?

[6L6]

There is a right way, and that's what the arm geometry is made for... Specifically a 52mm overhang from the headshell collar to the tip of the stylus, as shown -

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/gallery/data/500/overhang.jpg

The overhang gauge

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/gallery/data/500/Technics_Overhang_Gauge_pjpeg.jpg

is a 2 Bob item, it works quite well.

As for somebody trying the 'right' alignment, that was most likely bayerwald, (which does work) but the stock headshell is almost always too short to get it to set properly. I have an Ortofon headshell that I use with a HOMC Ortofon that is long enough, but barely. Sounds nice.

Anyway,get the Technics overhang gauge and give it a go, You'll like it. :)

[Another Andy]

Overhang gauge ordered,

it will be interesting to see how much difference there is in the sound.
Currently it sounds pretty good though my listening room is rather compromised in size and clutter!

Working on an bugle 2 phono stage currently, should be better than the built in stage im using!

photos to follow as normal

A

[Another Andy]

SO a few years have passed! but having accumulated even more vinyl I turned again to playing!

The deck is the same as before but with a Ortofon Blue.

The PSU is in its enclosure, and looks great, photos to follow....

I have finished the Bugle 2 phono amp! photos to follow....

I have re-stacked my hi-fi rack as it was gettign too tall, this obviously helps with stability.

Oh and I have used Vibrapods with there cones as a foot replacement.

More to follow