Should I upgrade or replace my Pro-Ject Carbon turntable?

[peter312]

I would appreciate people's thoughts on how I might best upgrade my turntable. I currently have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with Ortofon 2M Red cartridge, playing through the built in phono stage on my Arcam A18 amplifier.

I am looking to upgrade my turntable due to some dissatisfaction I have with the sound. I find the treble a little 'splashy' or 'mushy', which I am thinking is mostly down to the cartridge (although I stand to be corrected).

The first option I am considering is to replace the cartridge with an Ortofon 2M Blue or even Bronze, perhaps with a change to an acrylic platter (or perhaps an Inspire Acrimat to replace my felt mat - to replace the felt mat and reduce static).

The second option is to sell the Pro-Ject and add the funds to the money I was going to spend on upgrading it. I guess that would give me £400 to £500 to spend. The only trouble is that I am not sure what I could get for that sort of money that would be a decent improvement on the upgraded Pro-Ject. (I would likely want something new or reasonable new in mint condition: I'm a fussy sod!)

Please may I have some thoughts on what might be the best route?

Many thanks

Peter

[synsei]

First and foremost Peter it is worth checking that your cartridge is set up correctly as what you describe is typically what one might hear if it were not ;)

[struth]

I think the phono stage could be bettered. A 2M Red is a decent cart as is the tt so I'd buy an external phono stage. Sure you will find it will improve things considerably

[Stratmangler]

Nothing much to add, just more of the same.

Check the usual - cartridge alignment (get a cartridge protractor if you haven't already got one), VTA (raise or lower the arm pillar to suit - the top of the cartridge should normally be parallel with the surface of the record), and VTF (check out the specs by the cartridge maker and use those for guidance - the Red is quoted as 1.6 to 2.0 grammes, and 1.8g is the recommendation. Slightly heavier can sometimes yield better results; ymmv).

Remove the dust cover when playing records.
I've yet to hear this trick not work.

What is your TT sited on?
Supports affect playback too.

[peter312]

Thank you for the replies. Looks like I have a little project for the weekend.

Much appreciated

[DSJR]

A project on a Pro-Ject eh?

On eBay, you can buy a tenner's worth of cork mat from seller 'chizwizard' (I think it's one 'z'........) and this does work in ways I can't possibly describe :lol: The 2M Red has a slight extreme treble rise and this, coupled with any possible overload issues in the amp and not forgetting possibly a cringed up diamond (a bottle of AT607 works wonders on ortofons I find ;)) could easily give the results you describe. Check alignment and playing weight as said above too..

Of the alternative styli, the Bronze is the best. The Blue can be a nightmare to get absolutely spot-on I'm told by several owner friends of mine, as it's VTA AND downforce sensitive and can sound very lean-toned all too easily. The bronze is better apparently here.

As for alternative decks, there are good retailers of fully refurbished techies for under £500 and the 2M's work perfectly in the stock arm and, being fixed coil carts, they won't need the faff of removing the transformer and all the other gubbins clearly catalogued here on this site ;) On the other hand, there's a perfect and expensive upgrade path should you want to follow it.

[Andrei]

The single best upgrade I did to my Technics SL1200 was to install Isonoe Feet. They come in two varieties, one for technics and one generic, and they are designed to isolate the TT from its platform, and they do a pretty decent job. But whatever you do vibration has to be addressed somehow, and turntables are more susceptible to vibration than any other component. If you can place your TT on a vibration free (or vibration reduced) surface that has to help. After that go to http://www.audiophilia.com/features/cartridge_setup.htm for guidance in the dark art of cartridge set up.

[Ali Tait]

I like the Reso Mat, look it up on ebay, worth a go if you can accomodate the VTA.

[peter312]

So, just over three weeks later, there's been a bit of a shuffle around. Having done some experimenting, the Arcam A18 and B&W 686 speakers have gone. The Dali Zensor 5's are now plugged into the Marantz MCR603, as is the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (via a Phono Box DS+). The result is much better sounding LP playback! The Marantz has never sounded so good.

I'm now in the process of putting some FLAC files onto a Synology NAS with a view to streaming them on the MCR603.

Next up is what to do in my office, as all I have up there now is a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 speakers and they make no noise on their own! Maybe an Cambridge Audio Minx Xi? Maybe some second hand separates. The opportunities for dithering are immense :)

Thank you everyone for your input. Greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Peter

[destroysall]

Having done some experimenting, the Arcam A18 and B&W 686 speakers have gone. The Dali Zensor 5's are now plugged into the Marantz MCR603Peter, I must question your switch in systems if you don't mind. I've heard many great things about the Dali speakers, but have always had a soft spot for the B&W brand. Do the Dali Zensor 5's really perform better than the 686?

Cheers,
Chris

[peter312]

The 686's were rear ported and due to the restrictions I have with where to place them, this made them quite boomy. I also struggled a little with the metallic ring of the tweeter on the 686 (I have always had some difficulty with some metal dome tweeters).

Regards

[synsei]

Next up is what to do in my office, as all I have up there now is a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 speakers and they make no noise on their own! Maybe an Cambridge Audio Minx Xi? Maybe some second hand separates. The opportunities for dithering are immense :)

Thank you everyone for your input. Greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Peter

Peter, if you can get away with just a single input in your office system you could do a lot worse than a Muse class T amp (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MUSE-M20-EX2-TA2020-T-Amp-Amplifier-20Wx2-w-14V-Class-T-Integrated-Headphone-UK-/271570957392?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item3f3ae3f450) which punch well above their weight, cheap too ;)

[Macca]

Peter, if you can get away with just a single input in your office system you could do a lot worse than a Muse class T amp (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MUSE-M20-EX2-TA2020-T-Amp-Amplifier-20Wx2-w-14V-Class-T-Integrated-Headphone-UK-/271570957392?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item3f3ae3f450) which punch well above their weight, cheap too ;)

They are cheap but I'd dispute the 'punch well above their weight' bit. Personally I'd rather find an extra £20 or so and buy a classic Seventies or early Eighties integrated amp from eBay or classifieds.