View Full Version : Time to reacquaint myself again with an old friend...
As I haven't had one of these babies in my 'cartridge arsenal' for some time, I decided to rectify that situation and purloin the following: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-DL-103-Low-Output-MC-Cartridge-Japan-made-Left-amp-Right-channel-matched-/281387116243?ssPageName=ADME%3AL%3AOC%3AGB%3A3160&nma=true&si=a9jrwPcdBFiqaE%252BDluDuZGSlifI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
'Left and Right channel matched' 103s, in my experience, sound significantly better than the standard items (which can vary somewhat wildly in that respect), and as this little chap is going to be part of two different projects, I wanted to obtain one of the better examples currently available. The projects in question will be:
a) Showing just how good a totally stock DL-103 can sound, when fully optimised/set up in the right tonearm and (high-mass) headshell, and used with a sonically synergistic MC head amp (in this instance a 'lurcher-tweaked' Lentek unit).
If the cartridge arrives in time, into the UK, it will be demonstrated at NEBO 4, in the above context, along with my (heavily modded) Technics SL-1210MK5G.
b) Later, said cartridge will be getting 'nuded' and re-housed into one of the sexiest and most exotic body-shells I can find, and possibly treated to a 'posh' cantilever and tip, which will then take it in the completely opposite direction to a)...! :eyebrows:
Any suggestions on the body-shell front would be most welcome, but recommendations given must be divorced from any mainstream choices and of the truly bespoke/exotic variety! :cool:
Marco.
337alant
26-07-2014, 01:46
Be interested to hear that at the NEBO4 Marco Ive being toying with buying a 103 as they are pretty cheap realy
But you hear so many opposite opinions on the 103 some say its the best thing since sliced bread and others slate it for its end of side distortion?, I would certainly like to hear it at itrs best :eyebrows:
Alan
Wakefield Turntables
26-07-2014, 07:27
Have a look on the cala mighty sound website. It will sort you fetish out, I'm sure they could find something hard and wooden, you could say that they might even give you wood. :lol:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eQoU-PXmk8U/UyV_gmG0fQI/AAAAAAAA4c8/0YwequUnFFw/s1600/jbibiihf.jpg
Then you could have the coils rewound in silver - also less turns for lower output but also lower moving mass - a ruby cantilever and Gyger S stylus.
Since selling my Linn Asak, I have returned to using a Denon 103. Without actually looking at the data sheet, I believe the two channels on my sample also have equal output.
At the moment I'm using it in an SME S2R headshell with an additional lead shim fitted between the cartridge and headshell. I'm also listening to it without any damping applied to the SME 3009 arm.
First impressions are this cartridge has bags of life and energy, but it's early days yet: further listening is required. :)
Idlewithnodrive
26-07-2014, 07:54
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eQoU-PXmk8U/UyV_gmG0fQI/AAAAAAAA4c8/0YwequUnFFw/s1600/jbibiihf.jpg
Then you could have the coils rewound in silver - also less turns for lower output but also lower moving mass - a ruby cantilever and Gyger S stylus.
Would that still count as a 103 ?
The generator design is, the damper, magnets, coil armature. I thought a radical reimagining was Marco's intention though.
Would that still count as a 103 ?
:eek::eek: Sweet Jesus that looks luverly, love my DL103, does some things that some cartridges cannot do.
As I haven't had one of these babies in my 'cartridge arsenal' for some time, I decided to rectify that situation and purloin the following: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-DL-103-Low-Output-MC-Cartridge-Japan-made-Left-amp-Right-channel-matched-/281387116243?ssPageName=ADME%3AL%3AOC%3AGB%3A3160&nma=true&si=a9jrwPcdBFiqaE%252BDluDuZGSlifI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
'Left and Right channel matched' 103s, in my experience, sound significantly better than the standard items (which can vary somewhat wildly in that respect), and as this little chap is going to be part of two different projects, I wanted to obtain one of the better examples currently available. The projects in question will be:
a) Showing just how good a totally stock DL-103 can sound, when fully optimised/set up in the right tonearm and (high-mass) headshell, and used with a sonically synergistic MC head amp (in this instance a 'lurcher-tweaked' Lentek unit).
If the cartridge arrives in time, into the UK, it will be demonstrated at NEBO 4, in the above context, along with my (heavily modded) Technics SL-1210MK5G.
b) Later, said cartridge will be getting 'nuded' and re-housed into one of the sexiest and most exotic body-shells I can find, and possibly treated to a 'posh' cantilever and tip, which will then take it in the completely opposite direction to a)...! :eyebrows:
Any suggestions on the body-shell front would be most welcome, but recommendations given must be divorced from any mainstream choices and of the truly bespoke/exotic variety! :cool:
Marco.
Would be very interested in hearing your report of the poncy Denon when you get it done Marco.:eek:
Hi Alan,
Be interested to hear that at the NEBO4 Marco Ive being toying with buying a 103 as they are pretty cheap realy
But you hear so many opposite opinions on the 103 some say its the best thing since sliced bread and others slate it for its end of side distortion?, I would certainly like to hear it at itrs best :eyebrows:
End of side distortion is a very real phenomenon with any spherical-tipped cartridge, especially in comparison with the best fine-line types. That's something I noticed immediately when obtaining my SPU Royal, with its 'Replicant' stylus (which to all intents and purposes is a Fritz Geiger S), although as such tips are so supremely accurate, cartridges featuring them are an absolute ball-ache to 'dial in' optimally, in order that their full sonic potential is realised.
*However*, in my experience (bearing in mind that I've been playing around with 103s now for over 30 years), when you get everything 'right', as I referred to earlier, you can minimise EoSD to the point where it's almost an irrelevance. In reality, much depends on the choice of music played and what might catch the cartridge out, in that respect. Think here of very 'busy', highly modulated material, such as orchestral crescendos or closely-miked vocals, which have been recorded 'hot'.
However, if you listened mainly to rock and pop/dance/electronic, or vintage jazz music, all of which the 103 excels at, you'd rarely run into any issues; in fact anything with a 'meaty'/bouncy bass-line (certain 80s 12" singles being a case in point), the 103 will 'lock onto' and deliver with consummate aplomb in the most entertaining and infectious way - and it is this I plan on demonstrating, hopefully to good effect, at NEBO 4 :cool:
If the 103 doesn't arrive in time, then I'm afraid you'll just have to slum it with my SPU or Denon DL-S1! ;)
Marco.
Have a look on the cala mighty sound website. It will sort you fetish out, I'm sure they could find something hard and wooden, you could say that they might even give you wood. :lol:
Lol... Good shout there, Andy! :thumbsup:
Marco.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eQoU-PXmk8U/UyV_gmG0fQI/AAAAAAAA4c8/0YwequUnFFw/s1600/jbibiihf.jpg
Then you could have the coils rewound in silver - also less turns for lower output but also lower moving mass - a ruby cantilever and Gyger S stylus.
Trust you to get it *so* right, Mark - that's exactly the type of thing I had in mind for the final project! :)
Marco.
Hi Barry,
Since selling my Linn Asak, I have returned to using a Denon 103. Without actually looking at the data sheet, I believe the two channels on my sample also have equal output.
Have a look at the data sheet for your 103, and come back to us, as I doubt you'd be able to tell otherwise. It tends only to be 'hand-selected' ones that have identical output levels on each channel - however, you could've been lucky!
At the moment I'm using it in an SME S2R headshell with an additional lead shim fitted between the cartridge and headshell. I'm also listening to it without any damping applied to the SME 3009 arm.
First impressions are this cartridge has bags of life and energy...
"Bags of life and energy" is precisely what the 103 is all about. I'd be interested in how you think it compares with your conical-tipped Ortofon SPU Classic GM - the one I sold you :)
Marco.
Would be very interested in hearing your report of the poncy Denon when you get it done Marco.:eek:
Watch this space, Andy! ;)
Marco.
Watch this space, Andy! ;)
Marco.
:popcorn:
...that's exactly the type of thing I had in mind for the final project! :)
Marco.
Thought it probably was ;).
Where did you nick the picture from? It would be useful to know exactly which type of shell that is :)
Marco.
Where did you nick the picture from? It would be useful to know exactly which type of shell that is :)
Marco.
x2:eek: When will you being poncifying the Denon out of interest Marco?
It's one of the Cala ones - limited edition too....
http://calamightysound.blogspot.co.uk
€250 - for the stone body
x2:eek: When will you being poncifying the Denon out of interest Marco?
Oh, a bit down the line yet, mate - maybe around Xmas time? I've got tons of other things I want to do first! :)
Marco.
It's one of the Cala ones - limited edition too....
http://calamightysound.blogspot.co.uk
€250 - for the stone body
Churz - that's not too bad considering! :)
I reckon that spending, say, around £800-£1k on pimping the 103 (plus the £120 I've paid for the cart itself), by fitting a new body-shell, such as the above, along with a ruby cantilever and FG S stylus, one could turn it into a veritable 'giant-killer', thus allowing it to compete with pretty much anything else on the market, including some (similar looking) Koetsus at three times the price! ;)
Remember that on AoS, 'SPPV' is king.......
Marco.
Churz - that's not too bad considering! :)
I reckon that spending, say, around £800-£1k on pimping the 103 (plus the £120 I've paid for the cart itself), by fitting a new body-shell, such as the above, along with a ruby cantilever and FG S stylus, one could turn it into a veritable 'giant-killer', thus allowing it to compete with pretty much anything else on the market, including some (similar looking) Koetsus at three times the price! ;)
Remember that on AoS, 'SPPV' is king.......
Marco.
On Lencoheaven ( that is where l believe l read it) they describe the ESCO Denon DL103 as a true "giant klller" able to take on and beat much more expensive cartridges.
I don't doubt it, Andy. The fact is, the basic 103 has the 'DNA' of a very good cartridge!
The reason why it's so cheap to buy has little to do with intrinsically how capable it is [in the areas where Mark identified earlier, such as the generator design, damper, magnets and coil armature], and everything to do with economies of scale, by being produced by such a huge (and highly specialised in this field) Japanese company, much the same in that respect, as the Technics SL-1200 is, in relation to Matsushita Electric.
That's why, on AoS, we love showcasing just how good some of this gear is (and how much it 'punches way above its weight'), as it were, when suitably optimised and used in the right context. It's the smart way to get the biggest bang for your buck, and a system sounding like a million dollars, without it costing anything like that!
Applying some lateral thinking in audio usually pays dividends... ;)
Marco.
P.S Happy 2500th post! :cool:
Ta.:cool:
Very interested in the ESCO DL103,but am a little scared l will lose what l have now musically speaking......:D
What does the 'ESCO DL103' consist of - exactly how has it been modified?
Marco.
Zu make aluminium bodies too, as do Cala. J7 at Audio Origami can anodise them in funky colours.
What does the 'ESCO DL103' consist of - exactly how has it been modified?
Marco.
It has a sapphire cantilever (sapphire and ruby are essentially the same stone but a different colour) and their proprietary Paratrace stylus (I've had three Paratrace stylus fits but prefer the Gyger S I have now).
It has a sapphire cantilever (sapphire and ruby are essentially the same stone but a different colour) and their proprietary Paratrace stylus (I've had three Paratrace stylus fits but prefer the Gyger S I have now).
Do you own the ESCO Denon DL103 Mark?:eek:
There is a lot of marketing bollox spoken about cartridges. Essentially, it's a very mature technology and most of the actual material developments happened many years ago. If you look at the Audio Technica ART1, for example, that came out 25 years ago and is as technically as sophisticated as anything made today. Goldring rebuilt my black Troika (that I am now using) with a ruby cantilever and Gyger S stylus - I've not personally heard anything better. There is no reason at all why the Denon couldn't be a giant killer.
Do you own the ESCO Denon DL103 Mark?:eek:
No, but I have looked in to it in the past. The Paratrace stylus' I have had fitted were all to other cartridges.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/markemark_2006/BlackTroikaLinnNaimHlogounaltered_zps95950ea0.jpg
walpurgis
26-07-2014, 11:11
I promise not to say anything rude about the 103. Even though some people think they belong in a ZU. ;)
Wakefield Turntables
26-07-2014, 14:17
What about the much talked about NWA 103?
Dunno... NWA appear to have gone altogether AWOL :scratch:
Marco.
The one with the 'ambitious' price tag?
Is that not the £5k 'DH1' you're thinking of?
Marco.
Dunno - are they not the same thing?
Hmm... I wonder how different they are..
Totally different - I've seen both and heard one (the DH1), which sounds nothing like a 103! :)
Marco.
What you are thinking of won't look or sound much like a 103 either.
Lol... We'll see!
One of the first tests I'll be doing, in that respect, is comparing the stock 103 directly with my Denon DL-S1 (and getting a proper handle on their respective ways of music-making), the latter essentially being Denon's own vision of what equates to a 'judiciously optimised' DL-103...
That will then give me an idea of how far to take my project with 'pimping' the stock 103 ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
26-07-2014, 16:23
I await to see your results. I went through the same process six months ago. I must admit I didn't get "too" into the process but I currently have a 103 with matched output sitting in a new aluminium body. I tried the Thomas Schick headshell but decided that the Audiotechnica Mg headshell offered 95%+ of the Schick headshell performance bit for 8 times less money :eek:. I have some lovely Ortofon 24K gold cartridge tags sitting on ity at the moment and will probably go over the Oyaide pure silver tags and cartridge leads. I've done some reading around the subject of comparing aluminium against the various wooden bodies for the 103 and I think the general consensus seems to be that their isn't much in it. I have not looked into aluminium against the more exotic malachite
http://calamightysound.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/uwe-malachite-stone-body-with-schick.html
I presume that each material has its own sonic characteristics and consequently you would select the one which matches your favourite listening characteristics. Keep us informed!
Dominic Harper
26-07-2014, 20:28
We are not AWOL, just very busy lol. We read the forums we just don't tend to post these days (not got time lol).
Anyway, I have a DH103 your welcome to come and listen to. This has had much more work done than you are planning to do with the standard 103 Marco.
Different generator entirely, plus my cantilever, FG tip and stone body.
Natalie does say this is one of the better carts she has heard.
Anyway, feel free to come round and have a listen.
Dom
Ah well, there you go! Good to see you popping in again, Dom. I'll certainly take you up on your offer. Are you free next week sometime, say Tues, Weds? :)
Marco.
Dominic Harper
26-07-2014, 20:50
Hiya Marco, It's Natalie.
Come down Wednesday if you like.
We do have the DH1 here for a listen as well.
The DH103 is very good indeed, but it doesn't quite have the dynamics and detail as the DH1 imo.
We also have a couple of others you might find interesting, I will tell you about it when you get here.
Anyway, feel free for Wednesday, give us a ring.
Natalie
Hi Nat,
Hope you are well. Nice one - I'll bell you on Monday to confirm. Look forward to it :cool:
You guys haven't heard my Denon DL-S1, have you? It's rather good... I'll bring that with me, so you can have a listen :)
Hope the cats are doing well, too!
Marco.
Spectral Morn
26-07-2014, 22:45
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eQoU-PXmk8U/UyV_gmG0fQI/AAAAAAAA4c8/0YwequUnFFw/s1600/jbibiihf.jpg
Then you could have the coils rewound in silver - also less turns for lower output but also lower moving mass - a ruby cantilever and Gyger S stylus.
That looks beautiful
Regards Neil
sq225917
27-07-2014, 06:55
If it doesn't have the denon generator then it's not at all a denon. That's like putting a different engine in an old car.
Indeed. That thought had crossed my mind, but it'll still be interesting hearing it :)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
27-07-2014, 18:56
If it doesn't have the denon generator then it's not at all a denon. That's like putting a different engine in an old car.
Yep, got round to thinking about the DH103, just how much of the orginal 103 lives in one of these beasts?
It's arrived! I'll be fitting it later and having a listen... It's been a while since I've heard a stock DL-103 :)
Marco.
I look forward to hearing your findings Marco.
Since revisiting mine, I've been playing a lot of vinyl of late. My reaction has been similar to that when I revisited the Decca Mk. VI.
Still tinkering with the set up, but it's a lot of fun! :)
Nice one, Barry. Did you get the spec sheet to see if yours had balanced channel outputs? :)
Marco.
I was wrong - according to the spec of my DL-103 (s/n 6136) the left-hand channel has an output of 0.39mV, whereas the right-hand channel has an output of 0.37mV. That's an imbalance of 0.45dB, which is hardly noticable; furthermore the entire response is only flat to within 0.5dB, so I'm not going to worry about it. (I only paid £50 for it with 10 hours use!)
At the moment the cartridge is loaded with 390 Ohm - I'm wondering if 200 Ohm might be better.
Having spent way too much time messing with 103s the first thing I would have done is a rebuild. New tip, cantilever and rewind...it's by far the best upgrade IMHO. I would only then look at a replacement body. Yes, you can argue its no longer a 103 and I wouldn't disagree but the difference is huge. Fancy headshells, bodies, meticulous setup, ideal arm etc still doesn't eliminate the limitations of the crude spherical stylus. You think you have eliminated or minimised EOSD and IMD to insignificant levels but when you hear the same cartridge rebuilt with a fine line stylus you realise you havent. Once you hear the cart without it you immediately notice it EOSD and IMD stand out like a sore thumb. ;)
Wakefield Turntables
31-07-2014, 19:07
EOSD / IMD what do these mean?
I was wrong - according to the spec of my DL-103 (s/n 6136) the left-hand channel has an output of 0.39mV, whereas the right-hand channel has an output of 0.37mV. That's an imbalance of 0.45dB, which is hardly noticable...
Ah, thought so... It tends to only be the hand-selected ones that have balanced channel outputs, which I find improves the stereo image slightly However, as you say, for £50 it's not worth worrying about!
At the moment the cartridge is loaded with 390 Ohm - I'm wondering if 200 Ohms might be better.
I reckon that 390 Ohms is a bit high and will likely make it sound a bit bright. Defo try 200 Ohms, but I'm running mine happily at 100 Ohms and it sounds fab! :)
Shockingly good, actually, as this is the first time I've heard a DL-103 in my Ortofon arm (last time was on a Jelco 750), or through the Paul Hynes MC head amp.... Wow! :eek:
What are you tracking yours at, Barry? 2.6g for me is definitely the sweet spot where the sound 'clicks into focus', with anti-skate set at just a shade over 2.4.
Marco.
EOSD / IMD what do these mean?
End of side distortion & intermodulation distortion
Not getting too much of either at the moment ;)
Marco.
Not getting too much of either at the moment ;)
Marco.
l notice it a tad l think it is record dependent.:)
Wakefield Turntables
01-08-2014, 15:35
Thanks mark.
It's arrived! I'll be fitting it later and having a listen... It's been a while since I've heard a stock DL-103 :)
Marco.
Well? Come on man spill the beans, outrageous the time folk have been waiting.:popcorn:
Wakefield Turntables
01-08-2014, 17:11
Here's my version.
129011290212903
Just a little porn. I quite like the experiment Marco is embarking on as I always fancied having a "turbo charged" 103. :eyebrows:
Looking forward to your findings.
Well? Come on man spill the beans, outrageous the time folk have been waiting.:popcorn:
Lol - is yer popcorn bag finished now, shweety? :eyebrows:
It sounds really good: 'big-boned', weighty, bags of low-end 'heft', which drives bass lines along in a 'propulsive' and most entertaining way. The top-end is nicely detailed but sweet sounding, and midrange is very fluid and expressive; indeed just as I remember a 103 to sound. In short: musically addictive!
However, this time round, with my T/T and phono stage being at a higher level of modification (the latter due to the sonic prowess of Paul Hynes head amp), the sound has rather more finesse and sophistication - and the 103 also just loves the Ortofon arm. All in all, for a £120 cartridge, it sounds ridiculously good. Furthermore, I've dialled it in now so that EOSD is next to inaudible.
Downsides? I can hear the effect of the plastic body-shell, which lends a slight hardness and brittle quality to vocals, but the Isokinetik Graphite Cartridge Stabiliser (see here:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171070144679?clk_rvr_id=674427068345&afsrc=1) ameliorates much of that effect, which incidentally is something I'd highly recommend for use with pretty much any cartridge, as this little device 'tidies up' the sound, overall, and significantly increases clarity. Highly effective! :)
Anyway, I shall continue enjoying the cartridge 'as is' for a while before pimping it like a bastard! :D
Marco.
I have a bit of a dilemma which maybe some of you guys can help me with......I've always been a fan of the 103 and currently have a standard 103 in a Midas body together with the Midas Touch isolation thing and very nice it sounds too....But here's the problem I also have a Nude 103R with a ESCO ruby cantilever which was a really great sounding cartridge with rock/dance records but unfortunately a couple of days ago whilst swapping carts I managed to break the cantilever (it's bent to one side).
So the question is which cartridge do I send to ESCO or Soundsmith for a new ruby cantilever, the MIDAS bodied 103 or the Nude 103R?
Send the broken one because then, when it is being repaired (and ESCo take months) you will still have a cartridge you can use.
Oh, you can't bend a ruby cantilever, it's either broken or it's not. If it is bent to one side it will be the small amount of pipe it is glued in to and it may be possible to gently (very gently) bend it back.
Thanks for the reply, I will give it a very gentle shove & try to get it back straight......here's hoping.
In regards to which cartridge to use I have others to be getting on with so it isn't a case of being left with no cartridge for months. The nude 103R has one problem who ever did the job glued a mounting platform to the top of the cartridge which I was always too scared of trying to remove before but the whole nude body thing has always made me nervous o using this cartridge and I much prefer the reassurance of the Midas body.
What do you guys think nude or re-bodied which sounds better?
A nude cartridge will usually sound better. However the price one pays is the increased vulnerability of the naked generator: not only can the cantelever be damaged, especially if it is long and made of boron or a gemstone; the coil lead-out wires can be easily broken.
I have a 'nude' EMT cartridge where due to clumsy handling on my part (:scratch:), one of the coil lead-out wires has broken! :steam:
There isn't really a good reason why a nude cartridge (without body shell) should sound better though - unless the body is actively resonating in tune.
It also could make the cartridge more susceptible to stray magnetic fields, which potentially may interfere with performance and cause hum, etc... In that respect, body-shells (especially metal ones) provide some level of shielding.
Marco.
There's something in that Marco (MCs are low impedance systems), but I think the main reason why 'nuded' cartridges sound better is the removal of a potentially resonant housing.
In that respect I would love to hear what a 'nuded' Decca cartridge sounds like; without that awful "biscuit tin" housing. :D
Totally agree, Barry.
Resonant housings are a significant problem. Also, housing materials have varying 'sonic signatures', which is why, for example, Rosewood Koetsus sound rather different from Urushi-bodied ones. Therefore, they have a major influence on sound quality.
However, for reasons previously mentioned, I've always shied away from using 'nude' cartridge designs :)
Marco.
Did you ever try the Linn Trak with the housing removed? I tried the same with a Linn Asak, but couldn't really tell the difference. And as you agree, removing the housing makes the generator vulnerable to damage: as I found to my cost with a "nuded" EMT!
Did you ever try the Linn Trak with the housing removed? I tried the same with a Linn Asak, but couldn't really tell the difference. And as you agree, removing the housing makes the generator vulnerable to damage: as I found to my cost with a "nuded" EMT!
I haven't 'nuded' any cartridge I've owned, Linn Trak included (bearing in mind that I was only about 19 when I owned it). However, I simply don't consider the process worthwhile, unless as in the case of the DL-103, the stock housing is resonant to a problematic degree (which of course is the case with its rather cheap plastic shell).
In other instances, I just don't believe the 'faff' of nuding cartridges is worth it, particularly when most high-end cartridge manufacturers take into consideration the sonic effect of the housings they use - and usually do a decent enough job of it! ;)
Furthermore, aesthetically, I'm not a fan of 'skeletal' looking cartridges. I much prefer a big fat-assed 'block of fudge', such as Chris' Decca, or an SPU... They just look more purposeful!!
Marco.
Not getting too much of either at the moment ;)
Marco.
Well you'll have to stop playing only the first track of old 1950s Jazz LPs. :D
Lol! Honestly though, it's not *just* as uber-clean or refined at end-of-side, as my SPU Royal (with its 'Replicant'/FG S stylus), but I've got the EOSD levels so low now as to be virtually inaudible. The effect is certainly not significant enough to bother me.
It's definitely the cleanest, most detailed and dynamic sound I've ever achieved with a stock DL-103. I think the Audio Technica magnesium-made MG10 headshell (wth 4g of added mass, from its stock 10g rating), together with the Isokinetik 'cartridge stabiliser', are helping greatly in that respect :)
Marco.
PaulStewart
03-08-2014, 11:31
I haven't 'nuded' any cartridge I've owned, Linn Trak included (bearing in mind that I was only about 19 when I owned it).
That's funny Marco, when I was nineteen, I spent most of my time trying to get things nuded :eyebrows: Oh yeah well probably not cartridges, the HiFi was involved though 'cos my stereo was four way and they just dug it in my room :lol:
On a more on topic note, for reasons that will be announced later, though a couple of peeps on here know, I'm setting up a radio studio, which will require a lot of vinyl being played. My first thoughts are to use a 1210 and to take a 103 back to it's roots as a broadcast cartridge, bit worried about back cueing though so it may be a Stanton it the end. :) However I have just bought a 103 of a mate in Japan who is a former NHK tech and we'll have to see if I wreck it.
kininigin
03-08-2014, 11:39
On a more on topic note, for reasons that will be announced later, though a couple of peeps on here know, I'm setting up a radio studio, which will require a lot of vinyl being played. My first thoughts are to use a 1210 and to take a 103 back to it's roots as a broadcast cartridge, bit worried about back cueing though so it may be a Stanton it the end. :) However I have just bought a 103 of a mate in Japan who is a former NHK tech and we'll have to see if I wreck it.
You may want to consider an Original US made Shure SC35C.I believe it was specifically designed for the BBC to use and has no issues with back cueing and sounds pretty decent imo.
That's funny Marco, when I was nineteen, I spent most of my time trying to get things nuded...
Heh heh...or 'de-pantyfied' :eyebrows:
On a more on topic note, for reasons that will be announced later, though a couple of peeps on here know, I'm setting up a radio studio, which will require a lot of vinyl being played. My first thoughts are to use a 1210 and to take a 103 back to it's roots as a broadcast cartridge, bit worried about back cueing though so it may be a Stanton it the end. However I have just bought a 103 of a mate in Japan who is a former NHK tech and we'll have to see if I wreck it.
If you're going to use a 103, make sure you put it in a high-mass headshell, as otherwise it won't sound right :)
Marco.
That's funny Marco, when I was nineteen, I spent most of my time trying to get things nuded :eyebrows: Oh yeah well probably not cartridges, the HiFi was involved though 'cos my stereo was four way and they just dug it in my room :lol:
On a more on topic note, for reasons that will be announced later, though a couple of peeps on here know, I'm setting up a radio studio, which will require a lot of vinyl being played. My first thoughts are to use a 1210 and to take a 103 back to it's roots as a broadcast cartridge, bit worried about back cueing though so it may be a Stanton it the end. :) However I have just bought a 103 of a mate in Japan who is a former NHK tech and we'll have to see if I wreck it.
Don't encourage him Paul.:lol:
You may want to consider an Original US made Shure SC35C.I believe it was specifically designed for the BBC to use and has no issues with back cueing and sounds pretty decent imo.
Agreed - the BBC even used them fitted into EMT headshells to use on an EMT arm and deck.
Seriously Paul, the Denon 103 may have been designed for broadcast use, but it was not designed to cope with back-cueing. You will almost certainly damage it if you do; the Denon 103 is too good a cartridge to be ruined by careless use - give it to me if you can't use it! :eyebrows:
The BBC also used Goldring G800 and Stanton 500 cartridges, though I'm unsure about their back-cueing capabilities.
PaulStewart
03-08-2014, 16:33
Thanks for those thoughts guys, Ihad not thought about the Shure
But it makes sense they were the standard cartridge on Radio 1 when
It started. The production process is a bit more civilised at the moment
So back queuing may not be necessary. Just have to see as it goes along.
Hi Paul,
I can confirm that the Shure sounds rather good on the Technics, as I have one. It also likes a little extra mass over and above that provided by the stock headshell. Stanton 500s are fun, but these days are let down by the poor quality of their styli, which can result in sibilance with certain types of music - the last thing you want when broadcasting!
In my opinion, if optimum sound quality, along with that 'radio-friendly broadcast sound', together with robustness, is your priority, then that goal would be best served with the use of a (suitably set-up) Denon DL-103.
What date will you be 'on air' and on which station/frequency? :)
Marco.
For those who haven't seen this thread before, which you might find interesting, I've resurrected it 'From the Grave', where the discussion shows how good a match, sonically, the venerable old Lentek MC head amp is with the DL-103, especially after having been 'breathed on' by Nick Gorham:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?8431-Nick-G-modified-Lentek-Head-Amp
Enjoy! :)
Marco.
PaulStewart
03-08-2014, 23:51
In my opinion, if optimum sound quality, along with that 'radio-friendly broadcast sound', together with robustness, is your priority, then that goal would be best served with the use of a (suitably set-up) Denon DL-103.
What date will you be 'on air' and on which station/frequency? :)
Marco.
I think I agree with you mate though I will try the Shure. My buddy Nomushika sent some files recorded with the 103 mounted on an SP10 with a Jelco 750D and a big chunky Sony SH 165 headshell. They sound really good. We are re jigging the spare edit suite so the shows can be recorded in there, but it will still be useable for video editing. The phono stage is a Rothwell Rialto running straight into a Focusrite Sapphire Pro 40 and then into Reaper on an i7 iMac. Just got a Shure SM7, possibly the greatest broadcast mic of all time :yay:
The Show will be on Pipeline Radio International and I will announce it properly as soon as I have the dates. It's a blues / rock show and it's the first time I've been that side of the mic for about 40 years. :) Still finalising the format, but we did the first run through on Saturday with every thing from late 30s recordings up to the new Dr John Spirit of Satch which I think comes out in September and some great 70s stuff from bands like Spooky Tooth and May Blitz.
I think I agree with you mate though I will try the Shure. My buddy Nomushika sent some files recorded with the 103 mounted on an SP10 with a Jelco 750D and a big chunky Sony SH 165 headshell.
One of these chaps?
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/SonySH-165.jpg
Nice, but a bit short to comfortably house a chunky cartridge, such as a DL-103, although I dare say it could be shoe-horned in! However, I'm not surprised that the files sound good. Could you borrow his turntable for the show, or perhaps conduct the broadcast from his location?
Who's the old guy with a show on Radio 2 who broadcasts from his countryside house in Scotland? I think he also has a cat. He plays some good music, mainly from the 1960s. I really like his show :) Love to know what kit he uses too, as it sounds fab!
The Show will be on Pipeline Radio International and I will announce it properly as soon as I have the dates. It's a blues / rock show and it's the first time I've been that side of the mic for about 40 years. Still finalising the format, but we did the first run through on Saturday with every thing from late 30s recordings up to the new Dr John Spirit of Satch which I think comes out in September and some great 70s stuff from bands like Spooky Tooth and May Blitz.
Noted! Make sure you let us know all the details in plenty of time :cool:
Marco.
PaulStewart
04-08-2014, 01:22
One of these chaps?
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u114/KCCTKC/SonySH-165.jpg
Could you borrow his turntable for the show, or perhaps conduct the broadcast from his location?
Who's the old guy with a show on Radio 2 who broadcasts from his countryside house in Scotland? I think he also has a cat. He plays some good music, mainly from the 1960s. I really like his show :) Love to know what kit he uses too, as it sounds fab!
Noted! Make sure you let us know all the details in plenty of time :cool:
Marco.
Yes that's the headshell, used one on my JVC Ql-8 years ago. Bit difficult to do the show from his place, Tokyo is along commute :) The Radio 2 guy is Desmond Carrington, great show, don't know what kit he uses. Del Richardson (who owns Fury Records) does his Rockabilly show on Radio Caroline from home too.
Yes that's the headshell, used one on my JVC Ql-8 years ago. Bit difficult to do the show from his place, Tokyo is along commute. The Radio 2 guy is Desmond Carrington, great show, don't know what kit he uses. Del Richardson (who owns Fury Records) does his Rockabilly show on Radio Caroline from home too.
Lol - is there not a train to Tokyo from your place? :eyebrows:
Ah yes, Desmond Carrington - excellent old chap. I like his warm and laidback style. Like I said, the sound quality of his broadcasts is fantastic, and to my ears, superior to what emits from the BBC studios in London, which is why I was interested in the equipment he uses, particularly the turntable (I know he plays records because he's said so on his show).
Do you think that with your contacts in the industry, you could try and find out for me?
Also it must be great fun doing a radio show from your home - I'd love to do that!! How exactly does it work, primarily how does someone playing tunes on their T/T at home get onto the radio waves? :)
Marco.
Interestingly, I found this: http://www.clydebroadcastsupport.com/New/synergyschoolradio/how-is-a-radio-station-broadcast.html
I always wondered how it was done! :)
Marco.
Desmond spinning some quality vinyl (although on which turntable remains a mystery).... Love Morgana King! :)
5xTl0IPgV1k
Marco.
On the BBC hard drive turntable.
Lol... That one could be, but I also know that he plays vinyl, as he's said so before on his shows :)
Marco.
Just purloined one of these chaps, as I needed another top-notch detachable headshell (for my growing collection of cartridges):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281286535360
Should work well with the DL-103, acting as a nice alternative to the AT MG-10 :)
Marco.
Very nice Marco. Very Deco too
Got a nice shimiko lying about somewhere. Must find it sometime lol
Cheers, Grant. I've used Fidelity Research headshells before, and they're excellent! I particularly like how cartridge alignment is achieved.
I also rather liked the styling of this one. Should look good with a 103 strapped onto it. Nicely high-mass, too! :)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/invEVd.jpg
Marco.
their stuff is well regarded, and expensive...do you use the screw atop to align?
Yup, simply loosen said screw, which in turn allows the plate underneath to move back and forth [see below], where the cartridge is fixed (via two screws), then simply 'nip up' the big screw on top when correct alignment has been achieved:
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/905/EMhs3W.jpg
...thus allowing accurate alignment of the cartridge much more easily than via the conventional method, which in comparison I find rather fiddly and less intuitive :)
Marco.
Yeah, perhaps, but the other method is a lot more rigid.
Not in my experience, Mark :)
Marco.
sounds like an elegant solution to a rather odd arrangement that seems to have stuck in TT's for pretty much ever. would not have thought the cart is really under enough stress and strain for the single screw to be a problem as it is being held onto the metal plate by 2. the metal plate is relatively thick so the thread should lock it up well
Indeed it does. If you're so inclined, you can tighten that big, bad-boy screw on top hard enough to achieve the same rigidity with the cartridge, as when using nuts and bolts from the top - no question about it, as I've done the comparison many times! :)
Marco.
The point of attaching it rigidly isn't to stop if falling off though - you could sick in place with a bit of BluTack and it would probably stay in place.
It does work though, Mark, trust me. Otherwise I wouldn't entertain using such a headshell.
Marco.
The point of attaching it rigidly isn't to stop if falling off though - you could sick in place with a bit of BluTack and it would probably stay in place.
no, its to stop it moving up down right left etc....no one is disputing that, just that a heftily made base plate should be able to be secured well with one screw if designed properly.:)
a heftily made base plate should be able to be secured well with one screw if designed properly.:)
Worked for Goldring ;)
So how much have you spent on ancillary equipment to support the 103 so far Marco?
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Yes its a loaded question! :lol:
Since 1982 when I first used one? :eyebrows:
Probably more than your system costs!! ;)
Marco.
...and there lie's the sting in the tail...:eek: ....and why I have not gone that far as a divorce would likely be on the cards....or imprisonment:lol:
Chains and shit? Man, you'd love that! Throw in a bit of whippin', spanking hard against that amply-proportioned chiffon-clad arse of yours, and you'd be in heaven!! :whippin:
:lol: :lol:
Marco.
Since 1982 when I first used one? :eyebrows:
Probably more than your system costs!! ;)
Marco.
My system is priceless ;) :lol:
Edit: no just now to get the best out of this cooking 103
Chains and shit? Man, you'd love that! Throw in a bit of whippin', spanking hard against that amply-proportioned chiffon-clad arse of yours, and you'd be in heaven!! :whippin:
:lol: :lol:
Marco.
nowt wrong with the spankin's :eek: you can keep the s**t!! ...as grandpa Simpson said about marriage and family...." I was only in it for the spankin'" :lol::lol:
Edit: no just now to get the best out of this cooking 103
Now there's a thing... Depends on what you mean by "just now"?
Do you mean including the modded Lentek head amp (which I bought ages ago), but mentioned again here recently, and are you also including the MG-10 headshell/AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid cartridge wires and Isokinetik graphite stabiliser I originally bought for the DL-S1, but am currently using with the 103, until the FR S3 headshell arrives? :)
Marco.
Just purloined one of these chaps, as I needed another top-notch detachable headshell (for my growing collection of cartridges):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281286535360
Should work well with the DL-103, acting as a nice alternative to the AT MG-10 :)
Marco.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/invEVd.jpg
Very nice Marco!
So does it have the headshell leads or not? Your FR S4 headshell looks even beefier (and heavier) than the FR S5 I used with the Linn Asak, and intend to use with the 103. The FR S5 weighs 18.3g.
Hi Barry,
Having spoken tonight with the seller, he's informed me that the headshell wires are included, and they're rather nice ones, too! :)
So are you saying the headshell I've bought is an S4? If so, how do you know? I was rather wondering which model it was, as it doesn't say so on the advert.
Marco.
Hi Barry,
Having spoken tonight with the seller, he's informed me that the headshell wires are included, and they're rather nice ones, too! :)
So are you saying the headshell I've bought is an S4? If so, how do you know? I was rather wondering which model it was, as it doesn't say so on the advert.
Marco.
They don't call me "The Fount Master" for nothing! :eyebrows:
Actually I guessed: I know mine to be an S5, your's looks to be an older version, so I simply typed in "Fidelity Research S4 headshell" into Google and up came the confirmation.
Let us know how heavy the S5 is when you get it. There are somethings even the Fount Master doesn't know!
Actually, I think it's an S3... See this post, from Alfie, on Wigwam:
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?61897-SPU-s-at-10-o-clock-and-the-mighty-FR64s&p=1154986&viewfull=1#post1154986
20g?? It's a veritable fat-boy! :eek: :eyebrows:
Marco.
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss55/alfie2902/FRS3headshell20g.jpg
Yes that's the one! So an S3, well it just goes to show the internet is not infallable (nor is "The Fount Master"). :lol:
Hehehe... I'm quite chuffed to have landed it, actually, as these ones are pretty rare :)
The last FR headshell I had (and sold to Neil) was an S5.
Marco.
no, its to stop it moving up down right left etc....no one is disputing that, just that a heftily made base plate should be able to be secured well with one screw if designed properly.:)
In a sense yes, but equally no. If you believe that rigidity is so important that mechanical breaks in the armtube are a bad idea (which many manufacturers do) then a detachable headshell with a secondary carrier attached by a single screw is likely to be considered an unacceptable compromise.
However, as this headshell, as a whole, is already removable I accept that it is possible that adding further breaks in the mechanical continuity may well make less, if any, difference. What this design does do is to make observation of the cartridge alignment rather difficult. Alignment should be carried out with the cartridge and arm geometry considered as a whole. If the exact offset angle is obscured it's going to be difficult to see if it's right or wrong. Once the headshell is removed it may be easier to see but the context is lost.
Sure, but at the end of the day, all that matters is that the resultant effect is sonically good - and from extensive experience of using FR headshells (and others of their ilk), I can confirm that it is! :)
If you believe that rigidity is so important that mechanical breaks in the armtube are a bad idea (which many manufacturers do) then a detachable headshell with a secondary carrier attached by a single screw is likely to be considered an unacceptable compromise.
In practice, having used high-quality detachable headshell tonearms for nearly 30 years, I've found neither of the above to be an issue.
Of rather more importance, in my experience, is optimally matching the tonearm with the partnering cartridge (in relation to mass, etc), and with a somewhat quirky design, such as DL-103, such effort pays considerable dividends.
Marco.
Of course matching arm mass to cartridge compliance is important (presumably few would disagree with that...).
We'll have to agree to disagree on the other :).
Of course, in that respect we always have done - no biggie :)
Btw, the clamp and mats have arrived. Thanks again. I shall be having a play later :cool:
Marco.
PaulStewart
08-08-2014, 11:57
Desmond spinning some quality vinyl (although on which turntable remains a mystery).... Love Morgana King! :) Marco.
No longer a mystery, as requested I asked my contacts at the Beeb and got this note back from Desmond's producer today
Desmond does play vinyl from his collection and there are still a few LPs that have never been played. He usually reverts to vinyl when there is no CD re-issue or if they can’t find a copy.
"Desmond uses a couple of very old crystal-lock Sony pro-turntables for LPs and a Garrard 401 for 78s. In both cases the cartridge and stylus is made by Stanton. We do have basic CEDAR noise-reduction but he also has a few trade secrets for cleaning up a worn disk."
Now his show is 7pm Fridays so I will listen with interest. BTW, my show, Doc Stewarts Cellar Club goes live on Saturday 16th of August on Pipeline Radio International (pipelineradio.net) The server rotates the shows on Tune in and then it will be on demand on the stations Podomatic feed. If you have any blues requests cellarclub@icloud.com
:gig:
Of course, in that respect we always have done - no biggie :)
Btw, the clamp and mats have arrived. Thanks again. I shall be having a play later :cool:
Marco.
What about the mat and clamp?:ner:
Lol - you don't miss anything, do you! :D
It's a VERY good combination (probably the best I've heard), but you'll have to wait until I have more time to crystalise my thoughts, as it were, so watch this space... ;)
Marco.
Audio Al
09-08-2014, 04:23
Your up early Marco ,
Yup, mate, got a busy day today... Going over to Macca's place in Stoke for a sesh later, where I'll be picking up him (and his Akai speakers), before both of us will be heading off to NEBO 4 in Hartlepool - should be a good one! :cool:
Marco.
Audio Al
09-08-2014, 04:49
Yup, mate, got a busy day today... Going over to Macca's place in Stoke for a sesh later, where I'll be picking up him (and his Akai speakers), before both of us will be heading off to NEBO 4 in Hartlepool - should be a good one! :cool:
Marco.
QUALITY
Remember FULL report WITH PHOTOS please
Have a great day :)
Lol... Cheers! That'll largely be down to others, but I'll certainly add my thoughts later :)
Marco.
Bah :(, I've got to go (apparently) to this other event today (nothing to do with audio) - I don't want to go (I really don't want to go) but I also don't want to let friends down :(. Anyway, hope you all have a fun day at NEBO - will be thinking of you.
Hi Paul,
No longer a mystery, as requested I asked my contacts at the Beeb and got this note back from Desmond's producer today
Desmond does play vinyl from his collection and there are still a few LPs that have never been played. He usually reverts to vinyl when there is no CD re-issue or if they can’t find a copy.
"Desmond uses a couple of very old crystal-lock Sony pro-turntables for LPs and a Garrard 401 for 78s. In both cases the cartridge and stylus is made by Stanton. We do have basic CEDAR noise-reduction but he also has a few trade secrets for cleaning up a worn disk."
Many thanks for that, mate - much appreciated! :thumbsup:
Interesting too... I'd love to see some pics of the T/Ts in question (nice close-ups), particularly the Sonys. Do you think that would be possible? :)
Now his show is 7pm Fridays so I will listen with interest.
Please do, and let me know what you think, particularly about the sound quality of his broadcasts, when playing vinyl.
BTW, my show, Doc Stewarts Cellar Club goes live on Saturday 16th of August on Pipeline Radio International (pipelineradio.net) The server rotates the shows on Tune in and then it will be on demand on the stations Podomatic feed. If you have any blues requests cellarclub@icloud.com
:gig:
Noted, mate. I'll be glued to it!!
Marco.
PaulStewart
12-08-2014, 23:19
Hi Paul,
Many thanks for that, mate - much appreciated! :thumbsup:
Interesting too... I'd love to see some pics of the T/Ts in question (nice close-ups), particularly the Sonys. Do you think that would be possible? :)
Please do, and let me know what you think, particularly about the sound quality of his broadcasts, when playing vinyl.
Noted, mate. I'll be glued to it!!
Marco.
I will ask, my first show is delivered, the programme controller tells me it's "Great" I can hear a few bits I want to get better next time. Mind you it's my first time in front of the mic for many years, but I'm really enjoying it. The Facebook page goes live on Saturday too :)
Thanks, Paul. I'm looking forward to hearing your show. Is it too late now for any requests? :)
Marco.
PaulStewart
13-08-2014, 18:07
Too late for this month's show which is already to go :yay: At the mo' it's a ninety minute show, once a month but if it's popular then it may go bi-weekly. I'll be doing a greatest live blues/rock section soon so Stephen Dale Petit Live at High Voltage will feature along with, Live at Leeds and Get You Yayas out. If anyone wants requests email cellarclub@icloud.com also the Doc Stewart's Cellar Club facebook page goes live on Saturday too.
For now, I'm using the Koetsu/ SME IV / Art Audio Composer-1 to digitise the LPs, this will change shortly when we re jig edit 1 at the office where I put the show together. The front end then will be Denon 103 in a Jelco 750D. This will be mounted on one of three possible decks, either a genuine ex-BBC 401, or a 1210mk 2 or I may get an SP10 shipped over. This will go via a custom built valve gain stage with the RIAA defeatable as some older albums an 78s use different curves. Once the signal gets to the Mac, the correct EQ can be applied in VinylStudio then the dhow is recorded in Reaper.
Hi Paul,
What time does the show start (listening now via the Podcast) and which kit did you settle on using? :)
Marco.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/invEVd.jpg
Very nice Marco!
So does it have the headshell leads or not? Your FR S4 headshell looks even beefier (and heavier) than the FR S5 I used with the Linn Asak, and intend to use with the 103. The FR S5 weighs 18.3g.
Well, the FR has landed and the 103 is currently sitting snugly inside it! ;)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
16-08-2014, 21:45
Well, the FR has landed and the 103 is currently sitting snugly inside it! ;)
Marco.
Looks good but the S5 you had you lent to me but I didn't buy it, didn't know you had sold it. When I had the loan I didn't like the way it was designed fiddly to try and set alignment and the screws I had didn't fit right.
I did buy an Ikeda awhile back which is very like the S5 bar the screw mounting. The Ikeda has an adjustable arm mount stub which slides back and forwards.
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l637/alphatoner/DP-47F/DSC_0002_zps520a55cb.jpg (http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/alphatoner/media/DP-47F/DSC_0002_zps520a55cb.jpg.html)
http://ebay.joynetcafe.com/images/audio/ikedais1cr1c
Regards Neil
Hi Neil,
Yeah, I think the Ikeda is based on the FR, and no doubt is an excellent headshell. I'm certainly loving the sound of the 103 in the FR S/3 headshell... It sounds superb and appears to be gelling very well with the FR's high-mass.
The solidity/unflappability and sheer 'security' of the sound (along with the bass authority and 'heft') is quite something! :)
Marco.
Spectral Morn
16-08-2014, 21:58
Hi Neil,
Yeah, I think the Ikeda is based on the FR, and no doubt is a superb headshell. I'm certainly loving the sound of the 103 in the FR S/3 headshell... It sounds superb and appears to be gelling very well with the FR's high-mass.
The solidity/unflappability and sheer 'security' of the sound (along with the bass authority and 'heft') is quite something! :)
Marco.
Enjoy
Regards Neil
walpurgis
16-08-2014, 22:50
Now that Ikeda looks nicely engineered.
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