View Full Version : Orbe and Gyrodec owners
Anyone ever tried putting something like an Inspire Acri-Mat (or similar?) on their Orbe / Gyro and leaving the clamp off?
What does it do to the sound?
I ask out of laziness and because I've now got quite a few 180g re-released LP's that have double the amount of vinyl and half the amount of tracks per side and it's getting to be a PITA to change the record after maybe only two 5 minute tracks. I've also got a lot of mint 45rpm singles that just don't get played at all!
I'll excuse you LP12 owners feeling a bit smug at reading this............
Anyone ever tried putting something like an Inspire Acri-Mat (or similar?) on their Orbe / Gyro and leaving the clamp off?
What does it do to the sound?
I ask out of laziness and because I've now got quite a few 180g re-released LP's that have double the amount of vinyl and half the amount of tracks per side and it's getting to be a PITA to change the record after maybe only two 5 minute tracks. I've also got a lot of mint 45rpm singles that just don't get played at all!
I'll excuse you LP12 owners feeling a bit smug at reading this............
Do you mean to try to lift the arm up, as the SME IV, is not hitting on the record edge on the rear of the arm?
hifi_dave
22-07-2014, 15:21
An additional mat isn't going to improve the sound you get with a record directly onto the Michell platter and you don't need to use the clamp.
Do you mean to try to lift the arm up, as the SME IV, is not hitting on the record edge on the rear of the arm?
The arm height has plenty of adjustment so isn't the problem. The question is aimed at not having to put the clamp on / off every time I change the disc. Small thing but can get a little tedious when doing it repeatedly over a maybe 3 or 4 hour session. Especially with singles..........
An additional mat isn't going to improve the sound you get with a record directly onto the Michell platter and you don't need to use the clamp.
It wasn't so much an improvement I was looking for (though always welcome of course), it's more in trying to avoid any degradation in SQ. I only tried the no clamp route once with a true but not overly loved LP and I seem to remember a degree of slip.................. and the hard surface of the Orbe platter seems a less than ideal choice to carry an unclamped record. The idea of a softish mat is more about achieving a non-slip condition without having to apply the clamp every time.
But your comment about not needing the clamp is interesting.
Audio Al
22-07-2014, 17:04
http://www.originlive.com/turntable-mat-platter-mats/upgrade-platter-mat.html
Sounds like you need 2 try one of these 1mm thick ;)
Ali Tait
22-07-2014, 17:24
Or a Reso Mat.
http://www.originlive.com/turntable-mat-platter-mats/upgrade-platter-mat.html
Sounds like you need 2 try one of these 1mm thick ;)
So in principle it's a possibility then? The thickness appeals.
Dearly love to hear from someone who's tried a mat on a Michell platter, but then at these prices it could be worth a punt, especially as there's a cash back guarantee with the OL option.
Or a Reso Mat.
An option yes. Has anyone formed a view on this vs a full contact option?
On my Orbe using the clamp is necessary. The recession in the platter centre is not deep enough to allow the nut to not interfere with the record... The plastic ring adds about a millimeter or so of height for the record center but even with this removed the records are elevated somewhat.
//Mike
On my Orbe using the clamp is necessary. The recession in the platter centre is not deep enough to allow the nut to not interfere with the record... The plastic ring adds about a millimeter or so of height for the record center but even with this removed the records are elevated somewhat.
//Mike
You're quite correct Mike, I've just checked with a straight edge across across the recession so that really rules out using the platter without the clamp. So I need a mat with some central relief incorporated to allow clearance for the nut. The plastic ring is bevelled on one side and "flat" on the other presumably to offer an option on the degree of clamping force.................?
Just found this on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OscarsAudio-Black-Neoprene-Turntable-Mat-twin-mat-BEST-VALUE-ON-EBAY-/390793905250?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item5afd21c462 which is cheap enough to prove the theory. Other than remembering neoprene as a "grippy" material I've no other view on how it might perform.
Interesting discussion, love my clamp though :)
.... love my clamp though :)
I do know what you mean and I suppose it's a small price to pay for what it delivers, but the thought is always there as to how much does it actually contribute?
I may soon know as I've ordered a mat and with a simple modification I'll be able to play "clampless". It'll at least get some of my 45rpm singles played a bit more anyway. I'll post the results one way or another.
Cheers Bob, will be interesting to hear how you get on "clampless".
For me though, the Gyro's design has been about a while, reckon Michell know what they are doing.
That said, part of the fun is trying things differently, though sometimes I've found you end up back where you started!
As a new vinylista, I'm still loving the "ritual" of playing records and "pride of ownership" you don't really get with digital.
Once the "romance" dies down (as it often does) you realise your screwing a clamp on and off every time you just want to listen to music, ok for full albums but single tracks....?
Pain in the hoop really...
But wouldn't ever change it... :D
?....................love my clamp though :)
which particular clamp are you referring to?:lol:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wb4Mhw_p82U/ThOwBQI88JI/AAAAAAAABCk/N0afnomSuyw/s1600/cartoon-nipple-clamps.jpg
;)
As they say up in Scotland: Sally's 'a wee dirty'! :D
The bloke on the left seems to be having a 'right good shuffle', and the one on the right is perhaps hiding 'something protuberant'.....? :eyebrows:
Marco.
I do know what you mean and I suppose it's a small price to pay for what it delivers, but the thought is always there as to how much does it actually contribute?
I may soon know as I've ordered a mat and with a simple modification I'll be able to play "clampless". It'll at least get some of my 45rpm singles played a bit more anyway. I'll post the results one way or another.
It definitely does work, and works brilliantly on a Technics SL1200MK2 also.
which particular clamp are you referring to?:lol:
Wha hey!
Couldn't possibly comment....that's between myself an Mistress Claudia :o
On my own Orbed Gyro, (2nd hand buy) it didn't come with the clamp ring, just the nut.
Phoned up Steve at Michell asking to buy one, and his quote was that he didn't actually use it himself, its not REALLY required and you wont lose anything without it.
He explained a bit about the concept behind the Orbe platter and clamp and how it effectively makes the tonearm think its playing a record 60mm thick.
All about damping resonance and changing its frequency outside audible range.
Just to go off-topic for a sec, been doing some customisation to my turntable and I'm bowled over (seriously) by Michell's customer service.
Absolutely the best I've ever come across - could not have been more helpful.
Bulletproof turntable from a British engineering company that really looks after their customers.
Fantastic, cant praise them enough.
Wha hey!
Couldn't possibly comment....that's between myself an Mistress Claudia :o
On my own Orbed Gyro, (2nd hand buy) it didn't come with the clamp ring, just the nut.
Phoned up Steve at Michell asking to buy one, and his quote was that he didn't actually use it himself, its not REALLY required and you wont lose anything without it.
He explained a bit about the concept behind the Orbe platter and clamp and how it effectively makes the tonearm think its playing a record 60mm thick.
All about damping resonance and changing its frequency outside audible range.
Just to go off-topic for a sec, been doing some customisation to my turntable and I'm bowled over (seriously) by Michell's customer service.
Absolutely the best I've ever come across - could not have been more helpful.
Bulletproof turntable from a British engineering company that really looks after their customers.
Fantastic, cant praise them enough.
You want to go to the factory.......:eek:
take it youve been?
Nice.
Fast becoming a bit of a fanboy here...
take it youve been?
Nice.
Fast becoming a bit of a fanboy here...
Yes, years ago had an Orbe that needed servicing( why did l get rid of it?:doh:), very welcoming and one of the chaps there whose name l cannot remember was wearing a white coat and he gave me a little tour, it was like stepping back in time, a proper engineering firm.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wb4Mhw_p82U/ThOwBQI88JI/AAAAAAAABCk/N0afnomSuyw/s1600/cartoon-nipple-clamps.jpg
;)
Bet there was a wet patch on the seat when Sally got up! :eyebrows: :D
Marco.
Did you not need to know that just before your lunch? :D
Marco.
Did you not need that just before your lunch? :D
Marco.
Not really, will have a liquid lunch today.:cool:
So's she - that's why she's pished her knickers! :lol:
Marco.
Blame that bad man Mike - he started it! :lolsign:
Marco.
And the dirty-talk-blood-hound Marco immediately caught the scent! ;)
Now then, back to subject!
I tried some different mats when i used anyone of my several acryl-platter based turntables.
I know the Orbe/Gyro/Tecnodec does not use acryl, but rather some carbon loaded vinyl(?) However, i have always prefered these plastic plated tt's 'au naturel' (Easy now, Marco!) :D
But please let us know how you get on with the platter matter!
Atb Mike
Right, if I can just borrow my thread back for a moment this is what I've found so far. Time has been limited but:-
I bought this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390793895704?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 at £8.99 delivered.
Arrived on Monday, used the "domed" platter securing nut as a pattern to open the spindle hole out so that the mat dropped onto the platter thus clearing the nut and lay flat and that was it. The mat is nice and grippy, quoted as 1.5mm thick (it's certainly no more) and looks washable should you ever feel the need.
Had to leave it there until last night as things were a bit busy and even then it was a bit rushed. Doing some fine checking by resting a straight edge on the mat and spanning the centre, it looked as though it might just be OK, or maybe the mat needed to be a little thicker for comfort, but it was so close (there might be a couple of thou' in it - if at all). I think a 2 or 3 mm mat would be a safer fit guaranteeing plenty of clearance.
So, I thought I might as well give it a go. And the finding so far is........................ no difference to the sound.
Only had chance for a few LP's but a 180g cut of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" was the same, and all four sides of Dire Straits "Private Investigations" was er, the same as without the clamp. 2014 release of "The Division Bell" just played through as normal and a few others were just as OK. Haven't tried any singles yet, that's to come.
I'm encouraged enough by this to now look for a mat around 3 mm thick that will take away any uncertainty regarding the clearance issue between the underside of the record and the top of the nut dome. I'll reserve the clamp for any discs that appear to be away from total flatness but it's been an interesting exercise.
But there is a huge psychological anxiety to overcome and that's using an Orbe SE minus one of it's constituent parts. I'll carry on listening and if things change as I get more into it I post again, but so far clampless seems OK.
Bob
Might have missed it Bob, but did you compare the new mat to your deck WITH the clamp?
Might have missed it Bob, but did you compare the new mat to your deck WITH the clamp?
So that's Mat plus Clamp? How could I not, because we're all inveterate fiddlers aren't we?
If there are differences then they're very slight and certainly went past my ears. The particular mat I bought is very compressible and if you imagine a "squishy" gasket sitting between the T/T and the disc you get the idea. The clamp just compressed the mat and everything went on playing as before.
But one thing I have found, or at least had confirmed, and that's that no matter how flat you think your discs are (and some are, I will grant that), so many have even small variations and the clamp just totally eliminates them. For that reason I'm back to using the clamp now for 99.9% of my listening. Then there's no doubt and no cartridge bobbing up and down.
I'm still looking around for a slightly thicker mat for use when playing a few 45rpm singles and perhaps for times when there are a string of 2 or 3 track per side LP's that I want to listen to. So that's about where I am. An interesting experiment because if you don't try, you don't know.
The only disclaimer is that this is all based on a couple of fairly short listening spells, but I don't think I'm far wrong. And if the differences are that slight, am I listening to the music or the system........?
What about compared to clamp only, no mat as per stock Michell?
Sorry! :)
What about compared to clamp only, no mat as per stock Michell?
Sorry! :)
Ah, I see. I struggled to tell any difference, in fact I couldn't tell. But I've just paired my Benz Wood with an Icon Audio PS3 Signature and it seems a really good match, with previously veiled detail coming through. A bigger sound all round.
When it's all settled down I'll run through the permutations again and see if the new combination allows any fresh insight. I'd be hopeful rather than confident though.....
Bob
Cheers Bob,
having a similar deck I'm interested!
No rush to try it out for myself, very happy with what I have. :)
Though need new cartridge, one for the (hopefully) near future.
Cheers Bob,
Though need new cartridge, one for the (hopefully) near future.
So, got a dead cert in mind or are you entering the nightmare lottery of cartridge selection? Or do you have a friendly dealer that will allow you to try before you buy?
My TecnoDec sounds much more focussed and less cloudy with the standard Michell clamp in place.
I wouldn't go without it anymore :D
So, got a dead cert in mind or are you entering the nightmare lottery of cartridge selection? Or do you have a friendly dealer that will allow you to try before you buy?
Have a couple of options from a couple of folks I could try, yeah.
Looking at something along the lines of a good Dynavector, Ortofon MC?
Do my research nearer the time, see whats hot and whats not. :)
Have a couple of options from a couple of folks I could try, yeah.
Looking at something along the lines of a good Dynavector, Ortofon MC?
Do my research nearer the time, see whats hot and whats not. :)
Good luck with that. Never easy.
My TecnoDec sounds much more focussed and less cloudy with the standard Michell clamp in place.
I wouldn't go without it anymore :D
Agree, my impressions are the same. Only, the benefits of the Michell clamp gets taken to new heights when migrating to the screw down clamp of the Orbe! You do NOT want to revert to the std clamp...
A simpler, but still quite nice one is the Clever Clamp (By Souther or ClearAudio)
Almost like Michell knew what they were doing when they designed the thing.... :)
Sometimes it takes us hifi guys (as opposed to engineers) a while to catch up!
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