What is 'classical' music?

[synsei]

Well for me, and perhaps for others too, classical music is that which was composed by the classical composers, Mozart, Beethoven, Handel et al, however there is a rich vein of orchestral based music which doesn't fall under this category. For example I am an aficionado of orchestral film scores therefore my favoured producers of fine, orchestral music are composers such as Williams, Goldsmith and Horner.

It would be reasonable for you to ask where I am going with this. Well, when listening to an orchestral score I feel uncomfortable posting what I am listening to in the What are you listening to right now (classical section) thread for the reason I've stated above, and also I worry that such music might not be perceived as having the correct gravitas, therefore I end up posting in the general thread with the similar title. Now I realise this is a personal perception but I wonder whether others might be feeling the same way and thus avoid posting anything at all as a consequence.

Perhaps it might be more accurate (and perhaps more inclusive) to rename the Classical Section, Orchestral Sounds or something along those lines. Just a thought... ;)

[keiths]

I got away with posting "The Orchestral Tubular Bells" in the Classical section once, so I would think you would be OK with orchestral film scores.

I still don't understand why 'classical' gets its own sub-section anyway :scratch:

[jollyfix]

Great post Dave. I think if its an orchestral score then post in classical section, there are modern composers after all. I think 'what you are listening to section' is great for finding new music, maybe all should be in the same thread. Do you think in the future there will be more 'listening sections' , jazz, prog , country etc? I hope not. What i love about the 'what are you listening to ....' are the different genres, and how that might influence what i play next.

[synsei]

That's very much how I view it too Dave and I've discovered some wonderful artists and music which are new to me as a consequence ;)

For the record I support the existence of the Classical Music section in general as it encompasses a vast swathe of styles, which is kind of why I feel it needs its title updated :)

[mr sneff]

Great post Dave. I think if its an orchestral score then post in classical section, there are modern composers after all. I think 'what you are listening to section' is great for finding new music, maybe all should be in the same thread. Do you think in the future there will be more 'listening sections' , jazz, prog , country etc? I hope not. What i love about the 'what are you listening to ....' are the different genres, and how that might influence what i play next.

I think that dividing "what are you listening to?" into too may sub-genres would be counter-productive. What I like with the current set-up is stumbling across something that I would otherwise not have heard. If there were too many sub-divisions I might avoid a genre that I thought I didn't like and miss a gem. For me the current set up is fine, there will always be disagreements about what is classical (say), it depends on whether you're a 'splitter' or a 'lumper'.

[jollyfix]

We are on the 'same page' here David :thumbsup:

[jandl100]

Perhaps it might be more accurate (and perhaps more inclusive) to rename the Classical Section, Orchestral Sounds or something along those lines. Just a thought... ;)

Oi! :scratch: -- what about chamber music, and opera, and lieder, and choral and .... ? ;)

Personally, I'm happy with lumping film music in the classical section if you think it suitable. :)

Howard Shore's film music to Lord of the Rings is awesome classical music, for example! :thumbsup:

[synsei]

Oi! :scratch: -- what about chamber music, and opera, and lieder, and choral and .... ? ;)

I'm happy with lumping film music in the classical section if you think it suitable. :)

Howard Shore's music to Lord of the Rings is brilliant classical music! :thumbsup:

I suppose it all depends on one's definition of classical music Jerry. I had a wonderful music teacher at school who was nuts about the 'classics' and their composers and who would become highly animated if one of us pupils referred to any old orchestral piece as 'classical' if it was not composed by a 'classical' composer. This has stuck with me throughout my life.

He was a lovely chap by the way, sort of a cross between Magnus Pike and a comedic conductor. He'd play us pieces on the wonderful hifi system he bought, with his own dosh, for the music department (Thorens TD160, SME Series II, Shure V15 III, Tandberg receiver (André posted a pic of it once, lovely old thing which sounded fab, fascia lit up in electric blue), and a pair of KEF Coda's, all early 1970's vintage of course. Mr Heels would stand in front of that rig conducting an imaginary orchestra as the music swelled to a crescendo :) I remember that system with fondness, especially when, after a long and hard slog, we eventually persuaded him to listen to Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds on it, his reaction was priceless... :D

[jandl100]

I've a fairly broad definition of classical, which (perhaps worryingly :D) ties in with ClassicFM - whatever they are happy to play, I'm happy to count as classical. :)

Sting quartets and piano sonatas are definitely included, and they aren't orchestral. :)

And so is 'classical sounding' film music.

Keep it broad, I say!

[mr sneff]

Going off on a slight tangent, I've always found it interesting that people who wouldn't listen to modern classical music are quite happy with similar scoring, even atonality, within the context of a film score.

[synsei]

Going off on a slight tangent, I've always found it interesting that people who wouldn't listen to modern classical music are quite happy with similar scoring, even atonality, within the context of a film score.

In my case it's through sheer ignorance David although I'm all ears, can you recommend some likely candidates?

[Barry]

Personally, I wouldn't want to see the sub-forum re-named 'Orchestral Sounds'. Ugh! - that would admit the likes of Manuel's Music of the Mountains, James Last, Mantovani and a host of other 'easy listening' perfromers.

Sorry if I'm appearing to be a snob - but music composed for film scores is fine by me and should be allowed: for example Michael Nyman's film scores for the Peter Greenaway films and Jane Campion's 'The Piano'.

[Marco]

Personally, I wouldn't want to see the sub-forum re-named 'Orchestral Sounds'. Ugh!

Perish the thought! :nono:

Marco.

[Eagle owl]

I suppose it all depends on one's definition of classical music Jerry. I had a wonderful music teacher at school who was nuts about the 'classics' and their composers and who would become highly animated if one of us pupils referred to any old orchestral piece as 'classical' if it was not composed by a 'classical' composer. This has stuck with me throughout my life.

He was a lovely chap by the way, sort of a cross between Magnus Pike and a comedic conductor. He'd play us pieces on the wonderful hifi system he bought, with his own dosh, for the music department (Thorens TD160, SME Series II, Shure V15 III, Tandberg receiver (André posted a pic of it once, lovely old thing which sounded fab, fascia lit up in electric blue), and a pair of KEF Coda's, all early 1970's vintage of course. Mr Heels would stand in front of that rig conducting an imaginary orchestra as the music swelled to a crescendo :) I remember that system with fondness, especially when, after a long and hard slog, we eventually persuaded him to listen to Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds on it, his reaction was priceless... :D

I wish I'd been at your school Dave, Mr Heels sounds like a really nice guy and I would probably have appreciated classical music at a much younger age. I really only started to enjoy it in my forties.

[Eagle owl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music

[synsei]

I wish I'd been at your school Dave, Mr Heels sounds like a really nice guy and I would probably have appreciated classical music at a much younger age. I really only started to enjoy it in my forties.

He was eccentric Geoff but absolutely passionate about music. In truth both him and my dad are responsible for my love and appreciation of the art. Mr Heels also ran the choir and our small school orchestra, both of which I was a member of. ;)

[PaulStewart]

Dave, I feel that anything written in the classical idiom, is fine in the classical section and that includes a lot of film scores. I have quite a few film score albums in my collection as I think many are amongst the best crafted orchestral pieces around.

[Oldpinkman]

:youtheman:
Perish the thought! :nono:

Marco.

It wouldn't work. Bach toccata and fugue. Chopin piano sonata. Schubert lieder? So definitely not orchestral. Been discussing with the missus with her degree from trinity. It's not easy to define. I've rejected her structural theory, based on periods of music. Bloody good question

Gregorian chant?

[Macca]

Gregorian chant?

Not right now I've just eaten.

[SLS]

Bit late to this one, but Shostakovich wrote some great film scores, about 30 in total, and last year I went to a live performance/screening of Alexandr Nevsky with score by Prokofiev. Quite something, full orchestra and choir. Definitely in the classical idiom.

Then you've got films like Death in Venice, Brief Encounter and Elvira Madigan that immortalised established works by Mahler, Rachmaninoff and Mozart respectively.

My favourite film score is "Mishima" by Philip Glass, which I listen to fairly regularly. He wrote loads of famous film scores. Still alive, but also definitely 'classical'. Rooted in 18/19th century classical music, his 'sound' is derived mostly from Indian and Tibetan music. Even with a strong electronic component, would still consider it classical.

[mr sneff]

Great post Dave. I think if its an orchestral score then post in classical section, there are modern composers after all. I think 'what you are listening to section' is great for finding new music, maybe all should be in the same thread. Do you think in the future there will be more 'listening sections' , jazz, prog , country etc? I hope not. What i love about the 'what are you listening to ....' are the different genres, and how that might influence what i play next.

I've been giving some more thought to this whole question of how to divide up the listening sections. As I said in my previous post I think too many subdivisions would be counter-productive, but what about a New Discoveries section where you can specifically post new music that has excited you? I'd certainly look at that regularly, and with more interest, than knowing that somebody has listened to Beethoven 5 or Led Zeppelin 4 for the nth time.

[synsei]

I've been giving some more thought to this whole question of how to divide up the listening sections. As I said in my previous post I think too many subdivisions would be counter-productive, but what about a New Discoveries section where you can specifically post new music that has excited you? I'd certainly look at that regularly, and with more interest, than knowing that somebody has listened to Beethoven 5 or Led Zeppelin 4 for the nth time.

Now that is a very good idea :)