Low end light on vinyl.

[stairpost]

Hi,

I use an old Revolver Redwood for analogue source (just sold a pre-circus lp12), it actually sounds really nice, clean and clear, but it has virtually no low end presence, the bass that is there is tight but it is noticeably bass shy compared to CD. It has a Linn Basik plus arm and a Linn Adikt cart.

I'm happy with the quality but wonder if there could be something I can do to beef the bass up a bit. (I will replace it as a main system source eventually but for now suggestions of bin it aren't going to be much help).

Cheers

Rich

[CageyH]

Start by checking the set up. That's all I can suggest due to my limited knowledge of these things.

[walpurgis]

I can't locate a compliance rating for the Adikt, but the recommended tracking force suggests that is likely to be a medium compliance cartridge and probably a decent enough match to the Basic Plus arm, so that may not be responsible for perceived bass lack. I'd be inclined to look at the phono input side and amplification. What are you using?

[PaulStewart]

:scratch: Large number of variable here Rich, is the set up geometry including VTA correct, is the tracking weight optimum, what phono stage/amp is it feeding, etc., also how is the TT mounted. can you give us a bit more basic information please? Did it sound better on the LP12, these have a marked upper bass bloom, so it could be that this is now absent.

[stairpost]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

I'm using a Copland CSA14 amp, the deck is sitting directly on a cheap but functional hifi table. I replaced the stock rubber feet with aluminium cones and feet, fixed securely with adhesive (could that be the issue?)

With CDs the amp gives a big broad range that goes low but stays pretty controlled, the Linn sounded far more like the CD sound than the current vinyl sound.

Not hugely experienced with deck set up so I would not be surprised if I have ballsed somethimg up.

cheers

Rich

[Macca]

Probably missing that mid bass blooom from the old LP12. And the change of feet will make a difference. Quick fix would be to fit one of the cheaper Stanton cartridges. That will give you the bass back quick time.

[stairpost]

Probably missing that mid bass blooom from the old LP12. And the change of feet will make a difference. Quick fix would be to fit one of the cheaper Stanton cartridges. That will give you the bass back quick time.

I think I might put the old feet back on and try that, it seems a bit of a shame to take off a pretty decent cart and replace it with a cheaper one. Still, I suppose if it works it works.

[stairpost]

I've got an AT95e that I removed to fit the Adikt, do you think that might resolve the issue?

Why would an Adikt offer such diminished low end?

[Stratmangler]

Pictures please, especially of the arm and cartridge when the stylus is sat on a record.

[PaulStewart]

It's my opinion that Linn carts are voiced to handle the bass bloom the deck creates. To be honest I have never liked them on any other deck for that reason. Try the AT and let us know the result. Also, as Chris says, pictures would help :)

[stairpost]

Thanks guys,

Will put a pic on when I get home from the weekend trip.

[DSJR]

The Revolver was a cute little deck as I recall, but my first reaction would be that it would sound band-limited for whatever reason when compared to a typical late 80's era LP12. Without knowing the records used and hearing for myself, it's very much like blind leading the blind here methinks :)

The Adikt is/was made by Goldring I understand and so should be directly related to the 10** series they make, probably the 1006 or 1012 I reckon. The current silly £400 odd price tag is no indication of the 'deluxe-budget' quality it actually offers..

The LVX arm (if it's the detachable shell model) is notorious for having loose headshell sockets, caused by Linn-types over tightening the Allen-bolt. An easy fix and a genuinely audible improvement is to check all screws with a #0 crosshead screwdriver (DON'T overdo it but many may need an eighth of a turn) and apply some 'stud-loc' in the little gap between the headshell socket and the arm-pipe where it goes in. Smooths the treble no end I found and improves high frequency tracking.

The later Basik Plus arm with fixed headshell was far cleaner sounding from the outset, but again, a leaner tone was the sonic quality, albeit clear. On both tonearms, the counterweight shouldn't spin freely, neither should it bind as both indicate a knackered rubbery insert which all but liquidises over time.

The AT95E will work in almost anything, but isn't as good as you should have IMO.

LP12's did have a fruity bass once, but the plinth updates and Cirkus kit helped hugely here to tame it into a far more precise but darker tone, rather than floppy-bass and vague imaging.

Lastly, commercial LP's (not necessarily modern audiofoo recuts) have mono bass and limited LF extension cut into them as a matter of course. Not doing this limits playing time and makes granny's old BSR groove-grinder jump all too easily - and we all know about lowest common denominator being in effect all too often.

[stairpost]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn169/stairpost/IMG_0278.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn169/stairpost/IMG_0279.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn169/stairpost/IMG_0282.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn169/stairpost/IMG_0280.jpg

Does this help at all?

[stairpost]

The Revolver was a cute little deck as I recall, but my first reaction would be that it would sound band-limited for whatever reason when compared to a typical late 80's era LP12. Without knowing the records used and hearing for myself, it's very much like blind leading the blind here methinks :)

The Adikt is/was made by Goldring I understand and so should be directly related to the 10** series they make, probably the 1006 or 1012 I reckon. The current silly £400 odd price tag is no indication of the 'deluxe-budget' quality it actually offers..

The LVX arm (if it's the detachable shell model) is notorious for having loose headshell sockets, caused by Linn-types over tightening the Allen-bolt. An easy fix and a genuinely audible improvement is to check all screws with a #0 crosshead screwdriver (DON'T overdo it but many may need an eighth of a turn) and apply some 'stud-loc' in the little gap between the headshell socket and the arm-pipe where it goes in. Smooths the treble no end I found and improves high frequency tracking.

The later Basik Plus arm with fixed headshell was far cleaner sounding from the outset, but again, a leaner tone was the sonic quality, albeit clear. On both tonearms, the counterweight shouldn't spin freely, neither should it bind as both indicate a knackered rubbery insert which all but liquidises over time.

The AT95E will work in almost anything, but isn't as good as you should have IMO.

LP12's did have a fruity bass once, but the plinth updates and Cirkus kit helped hugely here to tame it into a far more precise but darker tone, rather than floppy-bass and vague imaging.

Lastly, commercial LP's (not necessarily modern audiofoo recuts) have mono bass and limited LF extension cut into them as a matter of course. Not doing this limits playing time and makes granny's old BSR groove-grinder jump all too easily - and we all know about lowest common denominator being in effect all too often.

I listen to a wide range of music including hip hop back to funk, soul and jazz. I have original issues and modern reissues so I'm not sure there is a common denominator there.

It's a real shame if the cart is to blame as the clarity and SQ of it is really lovely. Plus it was a Xmas pressie from my other half and after spending that much on it to tell her it is only going to be of any use on a deck that's going to cost £500 second hand isn't going to go down well. I liked the LP12 I had and I enjoyed owning it but I doubt I would go that direction again. I am thinking of a Planar 2 or 3 for now and putting the Revolver in the other system with the AT95e on it, but won't bother if I have the same issue with a Rega. A decent TT is on the cards but probably not till next year, I want to get speakers sorted first. That's why I would be very chuffed if I can get a bit more weight out of what I have.

Cheers

Rich.

[Stratmangler]

What have you set the tracking weight to?
If you've used the calibrated wheel on the counterweight the indication is that it's 0.75g lower that it should be.

[CageyH]

Is it me, or does it look a bit tail down?

[Stratmangler]

Is it me, or does it look a bit tail down?

On one shot it does, but another I'm not so sure :scratch:

[stairpost]

What have you set the tracking weight to?
If you've used the calibrated wheel on the counterweight the indication is that it's 0.75g lower that it should be.

I will be honest I haven't really done anything apart from put the cart on, I increased the weight by 0.75g and adjusted the anti skate to match and there is now noticeably more low end, result! I am getting there.

The cart did actually make contact with the vinyl at the start of the record so I am guessing it must need to be raised a little in the collar at the back?

[Stratmangler]

The cart did actually make contact with the vinyl at the start of the record so I am guessing it must need to be raised a little in the collar at the back?

You guess correctly!
When doing the upward move it helps if you have something to use as a gauge of some sort.
I use a block of business cards, although a pack of playing cards would be just as good - just find out how many are required to keep the arm in position for when you release the grub screw in the base, and the arm pillar stays in put. Add a couple of cards, tighten up the grub screw and have a listen.
With trial and error you'll get the arm to the optimum position and then you'll hear the most balanced sound.

Have fun :cool:

[julesd68]

Do you have a seperate phono stage Rich or does it go straight into the amp?

[synsei]

Some good advice here chaps which should set Rich on the road to happiness ;)

[stairpost]

Some good advice here chaps which should set Rich on the road to happiness ;)

Absolutely!

This is the second time I have received help that resolved frustrating TT issues. A fantastic forum with genuine forum members.

[stairpost]

Do you have a seperate phono stage Rich or does it go straight into the amp?

Straight into the amp, I will probably look at a phono stage in the future as I am happy with my amp, but for now speakers is a priority I think (when funds allow)