A question regarding returning to vinyl records

[Eagle owl]

or buying and using vinyl for the first time.

I sold my Rega Planar 3 somewhere around 1990 iirc but am now considering buying another turntable.

My question is to those who have bought a turntable and vinyl records for the first time or who have returned to vinyl after many years.

Are you glad you did or do you regret it ?

When i sold my turntable it was because I was just starting to enjoy classical music and the clicks and pops used to drive me mad.

Geoff.

[Pete The Cat]

My deck was always on the rack, I just lapsed into the convenience of only playing CDs for about 15 years. Yes, I'm glad I came back, I realised what I'd lost - not just that I'd been charmed by the "clarity" of CD (which I now feel is sometimes more brightness) but the whole ritual of putting a record on, the full sized sleeve and notes and so on. Nowadays I buy and listen to records and CDs 50/50 and each have their merits and drawbacks.

Pete

[Ali Tait]

Definitely glad I did it, even though it's cost me a fortune!

I went the cd route back in the late eighties, wish I hadn't now. Got a 401 set up last November, digital side has not been used since.

[Macca]

I gave up on my vinyl about ten years ago. My records had become noisy with lots of clicks and pops and jumps. I never sold them and at the back of my mind I always intended to get a cleaning machine to sort them out, which I did a couple of years back. Hearing all my old records, mostly bought twenty odd years ago, restored to near perfection was a great pleasure. My listening is still mostly CD sourced but I would not be without the capability to play vinyl.

If you want to do things properly though it is not cheap. Records do need to be properly cleaned and you need a quality cartridge to make the most of them and they are no longer inexpensive. I worked out that with a stylus life of 1000 hours it costs me almost 50p to play a record. On the other hand you can pick up used vinyl albums for a pound a go. It's always fun to have 'youngsters' round and show them a working record player and a vinyl collection. To them it is a steam traction engine, it's anachronistic and they don't really understand why anyone still uses it but they still think it is really cool :)

[twotone]

I love vinyl/records but hate all of the turntable/cartridge/arm stuff.

I would sell the TT in a minute but keep the vinyl.

Having said that my system sounds fantastic and I'm delighted with it.

I was away from Vinyl for about 25 years BTW but I love the fact that you can just go and buy any record you feel like it from when that record was first released, there's not many things you can do that with nowadays, books maybe and cameras too.

[Primalsea]

I haven't regretted it at all. There's nothing like vinyl but it needs to be a good pressing and clean.

[DSJR]

Classical music lovers are very badly served with vinyl, as the dynamic range can be huge and vinyl 'roar' and noises in general are extremely irritating. I get this on dreamy early Klaus Schulze and Tangerine Dream 'electronic Berlin School' albums on vinyl and the CD's of these albums are incomparably better for me and clearer as well!

Pop, rock and jazz music can sound really good if carefully mastered to vinyl and often, noise isn't anywhere near such an issue. Many cheaper modern cartridges and styli have rather better formed and polished styli than their 70's and possibly 80's counterparts, so surface noise and inner-groove tracing should hopefully be better.

It's my opinion that acoustic 'classical' music is best enjoyed digitally and a typical CD of such music, will/should sound very close indeed to the original master recording if not identical unless the mastering engineer has been messing about (been at Decca and heard a comparison some years ago now). Vinyls of classical material, especially early 60's Decca pressings now worth a fortune, will ALL have been equalised heavily (the evidence is on the tape boxes!) so the infamous Decca-Sound many gear-enthusiasts covet is actually shedloads of eq...

As for a decent deck for not much money, I'd be inclined to avoid the springy belt drives and even overpriced vintage Regas now (:eek:) and look out for a solid top-range 70's direct drive and be VERY careful on siting, mat, headshell and cartridge used, removing the lid when playing. Decks I have personal knowledge of in recent times are the vintage techie SL1200, 1300, 1400, 1500, 1600, 1700, 1800 and the armless 120/150 in series one and two forms. The mk2's though have a cueing mech fault which is costly to strip out and repair (I believe the part that breaks is now being re-manufactured or at least spiced together by a third party). The better Sonys like Gromit has are lovely too and of course the ugly but now expensive Pioneer PL71 is the UK daddy of 'em all for those that know it :)

Properly sorted and in clean condition, the above decks will sound really good with no added rumble or drive noise. Of course, there are now re-furbishers of the modern classic techie but they want their pound of flesh for them (anything over £350 I believe). The stock techie 1200mk2 isn't as awful as some make you think and it's only those with SPU and Denon 103 fetishes that really NEED to strip 'em out (like a ton-up Citroen Saxo :rolleyes:) and race tune them. The 'rest of us' can enjoy them with a 2M Blue fitted and a cheap cork or acrylic mat in place on top of the stock one most of the time ;)

Hope the ramble above helps a tiny bit.

[julesd68]

When i sold my turntable it was because I was just starting to enjoy classical music and the clicks and pops used to drive me mad.

Hi Geoff,

I do sympathise with your predicament. I collect vintage classical vinyl and it is difficult, but by no means impossible to get near mint vinyl if you buy from the right sources in my opinion. An RCM is an absolute must to clean up 30 or 40 year old vinyl and one of the best investments I have made. Having a cartridge that minimises surface noise is handy too ... Yes, vinyl can be a pain in the backside and I do end up returning some vinyl that isn't quite accurately graded, but it's worth it for the pleasure of a supremely well recorded lp in my opinion ...

Another thing I would say is that the best recordings in near mint condition aren't cheap at all - ebay prices seem to have gone up. There are some friendly ebay dealers and other online dealers who will let you 'stockpile' records to save on post and packing. PFM also has a very good classical record shop at extremely reasonable prices ...

[Ali Tait]

Agreed, an RCM is a must.

[Eagle owl]

Many thanks for your replies chaps. :thumbsup:

[The Barbarian]

Best thing i did was go back to vinyl..

[Clive197]

I never really left but it wasn't until a few years ago when I bought the Cadenza Bronze that I started buying new vinyl again and enjoying my old vinyl much more. Viva La Analogue.

Clive

[Audio Al]

Hi , If you appreciate hi quality audio listening in my opinion you will not beat records / LP's

Records are more involving by way of handling / having a album cover to read and enjoy the artwork

Obtaining new LP's ( I get all my LP's from local car boot sales ) The trill of the hunt when finding album's in good condition for between 50p and £1 each :)

Then you have the opportunity to play with the Hi Fi components , choose the cartridge , Cables , Amp , speakers , etc etc

Record players are hands on audio and in my opinion far more enjoyable than CD's / streaming etc

Have fun :D

[Haselsh1]

I never really left vinyl behind but I hate the sheer bloody inconvenience of it all. I also find CD a lot brighter and certainly a lot more clinical but I am happy that I have the two systems side by side. I never do things just because they are easy and convenient as is obvious by the fact I am a photographer who still chooses to shoot film but sometimes, just sometimes, I want the sheer ease of CD. Then again...

[nickjj]

I'd say vinyl is an acquired taste after years of listening to CD, and some people just can't get over the issue of surface noise / ticks / pops etc.

It no longer bothers me that much on the vast majority of records and is mainly present in the run in grooves, after which it usually settles down. I now think of it as similar to clapping, shouts, whoops etc when you're at a live gig. Some abused used records can be unlistenable, though, and some kind of record cleaning machine really is a must (I use a cheap Knosti which works suprisingly well).

The rewards with vinyl are high, particularly with properly mastered good quality older records. It's just so much more involving than CD which I now find dull and flat sounding in comparison. 3d soundstage, dynamics, musicality + you listen to a full side without constantly skipping tracks etc.

[Marco]

Hi Nick,


I'd say vinyl is an acquired taste after years of listening to CD, and some people just can't get over the issue of surface noise / ticks / pops etc.


Buy a decent RCM, look after your records, and the above is totally a non-issue!

Anyway, welcome to AoS. Where in the UK are you? :)

Marco.

[struth]

Hi , If you appreciate hi quality audio listening in my opinion you will not beat records / LP's

Records are more involving by way of handling / having a album cover to read and enjoy the artwork

Obtaining new LP's ( I get all my LP's from local car boot sales ) The trill of the hunt when finding album's in good condition for between 50p and £1 each :)

Then you have the opportunity to play with the Hi Fi components , choose the cartridge , Cables , Amp , speakers , etc etc

Record players are hands on audio and in my opinion far more enjoyable than CD's / streaming etc

Have fun :D

too true! its one of the great pleasures in life imho; like making my latte manually instead of using a couple of goddamn pods ggrr....to prove the point, yours truely has just gone mad and bought a TT carcass to do up.......mad or what:)

[Lynster]

Very glad I returned but I think there are a couple of factors here that need to be commented upon.:)

Basically, when I adopted CDs when they first appeared, they seemed to be a worthwhile improvement at the time over records. And new technology is always better is it not?:doh: With the benefit of hindsight, whilst I had a quality hifi (or perhaps more realistically midfi) system at the time, my knowledge of vinyl care was hugely lacking compared to what I know now. Yes I kept my records vertically stored in their sleeve and cover, wiped the dust off before play with a commercial antistatic record cloth but at parties, sleeves became lost, smoke and beer prevailed and scratches sometimes appeared from nowhere. Wash, RCM, what’s that? Clicks and pops, goes with the territory. I dread now to think how misaligned the cartridges actually were. Centralised and straight in the head shell by eye was the norm. No wonder CDs sounded so good and I was one of the careful guys with records and equipment.

Quite some years back when I dug out my old ARXB TT after about 8 years in storage to play some of the 300+ good records that I’d kept, it sounded hugely disappointing at first compared to the rather high quality CD front end I had by then. But fortunately, though advice and support from websites and forums and much personal trial and error with fettling and set up, I had the old AR sounding very good and quite close to digital. Changing to a Technics 1210 (and now modded/further improved) and upgrading to a better cartridge, separate high quality phono stage and analogue eventually realised so much more of its potential that I preferred it and started buying records again. So yes, I’m very glad I have a TT again but I’m also glad it’s a good set up or I might not have persevered. With cleaning and a good stylus profile, clicks, pops and surface noise are virtually non-existent even on my very well worn original LPs. However, I’ve not returned to vinyl at the exclusion of digital. I still buy plenty of CDs and my current system plays them better than ever but a good analogue front end just has something special that I could never now give up so very glad I did go back.:bike:

[Jimbo]

Hi , If you appreciate hi quality audio listening in my opinion you will not beat records / LP's

Records are more involving by way of handling / having a album cover to read and enjoy the artwork

Obtaining new LP's ( I get all my LP's from local car boot sales ) The trill of the hunt when finding album's in good condition for between 50p and £1 each :)

Then you have the opportunity to play with the Hi Fi components , choose the cartridge , Cables , Amp , speakers , etc etc

Record players are hands on audio and in my opinion far more enjoyable than CD's / streaming etc

Have fun :D

Alan I have to agree totaly with what you have written regarding Vinyl. The return back to vinyl for me has given me a massive enjoyment for music.

I have bought more and listened to more than I ever did in the Digital Dark ages:lol:

[Andrei]

I am a returned vinyl spinner. I very much love my TT and there are many albums (Katie Melua, Sixto Rogriguez, some Elvis etc) where the LP simply sounds better. There are many other great things about vinyl - some music is not available elsewhere, the covers are cool, and the analogue sound is simply not fatiguing. BUT there are a convincing reasons to stick to digital.

First is that digital is catching up with analogue - advances in DACs and Hi-res downloads, DSD - so the quality difference is not much;
Second, you have to chuck a lot of dosh to get vinyl sounding great, it is cheaper with digital.
Third: that lovely analogue sound? You can go most of the distance with tubes.

It's a bit ironic but although I financially regret returning to vinyl (I could have spent all that money on a truly high end amplifier) I wish I had never given up my TT and records in the fist place.

[Jimbo]

I am a returned vinyl spinner. I very much love my TT and there are many albums (Katie Melua, Sixto Rogriguez, some Elvis etc) where the LP simply sounds better. There are many other great things about vinyl - some music is not available elsewhere, the covers are cool, and the analogue sound is simply not fatiguing. BUT there are a convincing reasons to stick to digital.

First is that digital is catching up with analogue - advances in DACs and Hi-res downloads, DSD - so the quality difference is not much;
Second, you have to chuck a lot of dosh to get vinyl sounding great, it is cheaper with digital.
Third: that lovely analogue sound? You can go most of the distance with tubes.

It's a bit ironic but although I financially regret returning to vinyl (I could have spent all that money on a truly high end amplifier) I wish I had never given up my TT and records in the fist place.

I agree with most of the above but there is one factor to consider.
Vinyl can be a lot cheaper to buy than those hi Rez downloads and DSD. I can see the industry has geared itself up to financially make a mint out of these formats, where as you can get the most fantastic vinyl down your local car boot or market for a fraction of the cost.

Obviously this does mean you are slightly limited to what is out there but I come across analogue treasures every time I look!!

[DSJR]

"CD's are brighter than records."

Actually it's the other way round these days. MODERN domestic digital (I mean the sensible stuff, not the wacko gear that has software changes every other week) is pretty well indistinguishably transparent to what goes on in the mastering and recording and in my experience, I can say that with absolute conviction :) The vinyl manufacturing process DOES take some of the 'edge' away and many older pickups have a dull, if smooth, response to them, emphasising the 'vinyl warmth' many of us like so much.

The above is meaningless though IMO when the TACTILE pleasure of playing records comes into it IMO. I've got into terrible trouble on the AVI forum when trying to discuss the tactile side of vinyl, since everyone there thinks vinyl is fruit-loopery cr@p. The chap who started the vinyl threads over there (and who sometimes posts here) gets all but scared off there quite often (and is quietly building a huge vintage-vinyl collection as he has a good second-hand record shop near his work) and Ashley keeps calling me a pillock (maybe I am ;)).

When I have the time, I LOVE going through my irreplaceable vinyl collection, despite having a TB or two of stored albums in FLAC format. Sonics have little to do with it as vinyl gives pleasure on so many other levels :respect:

[YNWaN]

In terms of tonal balance there is little difference between record and CD/ download at my house.

[Marco]

Actually it's the other way round these days. MODERN domestic digital (I mean the sensible stuff, not the wacko gear that has software changes every other week) is pretty well indistinguishably transparent to what goes on in the mastering and recording and in my experience, I can say that with absolute conviction :) The vinyl manufacturing process DOES take some of the 'edge' away and many older pickups have a dull, if smooth, response to them, emphasising the 'vinyl warmth' many of us like so much.


I've just received from Amazon a vinyl copy of the album ('Lento'), from the highly regarded Korean female vocalist Youn Sun Nah. See here (you can even listen to snapshots of the songs): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lento-Youn-Sun-Nah/dp/B00B3WUNZ6/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1407251780&sr=1-1&keywords=youn+sun+nah

Whether you like the music or not (and I think her voice is sublime), the album is beautifully recorded, which I suspect was all produced digitally. Anyway, as is common these days, the vinyl album was supplied with a free CD of the same music, which of course ably facilitates direct comparison, in terms of sound quality, between both the vinyl and CD.

I can tell you that, in my system (whiich features both a top-notch CDP and turntable), in a blind test, you'd struggle to tell the difference between them (especially after thoroughly cleaning the record on the RCM and removing all playback noise to near inaudible levels), as both the vinyl and CD sound superb. Therefore, what is clearly apparent is that, in this instance [and I could cite many other such examples], the vinyl manufacturing process has been, to all intents and purposes, transparent.

The CD does not sound 'more edgy', nor does the vinyl record sound 'warm'. In actuality, if one listens intently, the vinyl *just* edges ahead by sounding that bit more 'real' and marginally less 'contrived' - and that's exactly the results I'd have expected when comparing one digitally recorded piece of music with another, albeit one that was eventually transferred onto a piece of black plastic. It's also what happens when one uses a T/T that is audibly devoid of the euphonic distortions often associated with vinyl replay.

Now, if the recording had been produced using an all-analogue process, then I'd fully have expected the vinyl version to have significantly outperformed the CD, and so that would've been a different matter entirely.

Therefore, I have to conclude that people who continually bang on about the 'limitations of analogue', and cite digital as somehow automatically being superior/more 'accurate', simply have never heard truly high-quality vinyl replay in their own system, or indeed haven't done so for some considerable time. Whereas, those of us who are able to carry out those comparisons every day, such as I've just done, know exactly where the truth lies...

Marco.

[daytona600]

Wot marco said

LP + Turntable + RCM = Big Smile

analogue or digital recording or mastering still sounds great on vinyl , own hundreds of LPs recorded in all digital formats 16/44 to 32/384 DXD DSD PCM
99% of all New music in the last 20 odd years is digitally recorded , most on 24/96 ProTools DAW workstations

Its all about a Talented recording engineer , well mastered , with good microphones

rubbish in - rubbish out , get the Source right first

Lento LP excellent thought i was the only one that liked this one

Patricia Barber typical example cafe blue , Modern digital 24/96 recording play the MP3 youtube clip & it still sound good via crappy lab top speakers
then try the CD & Vinyl side by side & see why this get played to death a hifi shows


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swpEnisQheY

[JohnMcC]

One of my sons sourced a rare Ian Dury vinyl pressing for me from the US a couple of years ago (4000 Weeks Holiday - never issued on CD AFAIK) and I dug my old BD1/Acos Lustre/AT120e out of the garage to listen to it. All the rubber had perished. So I bought a cheapie Ion TT to burn the album onto CD. Then, a few months ago I came across four boxes of vinyl albums (about 400 in all) which had been in the garage for 12 years or so, all bought between 1964 and 1990. Pulled out the Ion again and realised how bad it sounded - and how unlistenable were many of the albums. So, having a bit of spare cash at the time, I bought what a lot of people on here would consider a very mid-fi set-up based on the ATLP120 TT, with AT120e, Denon receiver and Tannoy speakers. I bought a disc cleaning kit and set about the LPs. As well as thoroughly enjoying myself I've learnt the following in the last twelve weeks:
1) the best orchestral recordings on good vinyl (usually pre-digital and often pre-multi-miking/multi-channel) sound better than anything else;
2) great orchestral recordings on vinyl can easily be ruined by a poor pressing;
3) there were as many poor recordings on vinyl as there are now on CD;
4) a good transfer to CD is very nearly as good as the best vinyl;
5) if the music and the performance really engage you, you will listen to it as a crap mp3 on cheap plug-in headphones from your phone and STILL enjoy it!

My 2p-worth anyway.