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DarrenHW
27-06-2014, 09:28
As per the title I had the opportunity to pick up a Garrard 401 the other day and I couldn't pass it up, I've given it a quick spin and everything seems to work as it should, speed seems pretty stable and it doesn't make any horrible noises however I'm now in a bit of a quandary about what to do with it for the following reasons:

It has no plinth.
This pretty much means I can't listen to it, any recommendations for a budget solution? I have plenty of hard wood / Ply / MDF knocking about. I've found a template for the plinth cut out so DIY is an option.

Arm.
I have an RB300 kicking about I could use with this but have no idea where to mount the arm, can anyone point me in the direct of where I can find this info?

Servicing.
From what I've read so far there are a few oily bits that will need attention, I'm pretty handy but very inexperienced with TT's and I've never dealt with anything this old. Everything looks pretty simple and well built, but I've read threads about stretched springs etc, are spare parts readily available / are they easy enough to service?

How old is it?
The serial number is 06733 and the stamp on the underside is 602 which if what I've read is correct this means it was built in the second week of 1966, can anyone confirm this? If this is correct it makes it one of the early ones (no switched strobe though) as Garrards of this era seem to improve technically the later they were built would a later model be a technically better.

How will it compare with my Techie?
Sorry if this seems like a subjective question, whilst I may be new to this I've been on here long enough to know only I can decide whether I prefer the Techie or the 401 so this is not a "which it be better" question but a request for fellow members who have owned both so share their experience of the TT's.

Do I just sell it on?
As much as I'd like to play with this I do have a conscience. I know there are people who love these old Garrards who (quite rightly) would be disgusted by an inexperienced newbie such as myself fudging about with it, is this a truely vintage TT that should be protected with a preservation order or can I fiddle with it with a clear conscience?

Finally some photos:

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4249_zps52f4792f.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4249_zps52f4792f.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4246_zps604ad323.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4246_zps604ad323.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4244_zps0960a2c8.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4244_zps0960a2c8.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4242_zps6abcd86f.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4242_zps6abcd86f.jpg.html)

REXTON
27-06-2014, 09:49
Darren it's Andy here, you bought the celestion 44's from me, remember? Anyway I've had loads of fun restoring a 301 so I can give you some advice. I understand your pretty good with woodwork so knock yourself up something from birchply if you have any, it needs to to at least 50-60mm thick, mines 90mm. I tried granite and sandstone plinths and preferred birchply. Skip MDF if you can.

The rega arm will work pretty well and you can find lots of information just simply by googling around but VINYL ENGINE forum might be a very good starting point. You might want to flog the Rega and buy a SME309 and if your budget stretches a decent 2nd hand Denon 103, this is considered a very good match and is indeed what I use on my 301, except I use the 3012 rather than the 309.

At lot of 301/401 owners try and find a 12" arm (usually SME or Ortofon), these are probably what you will see on some of the higher end 401's and may wish to get if you decide you like the 401. The 12" arms are usually partnered with exotic highend carts like Kiseki's, Koetsu's and other exotica, I still believe a decent Denon 103 or Shure V 15mk3 work wonders. ;)

With regards lubrication, you might want to just check how well the various switches work and maybe add a little lube (oo-er) to help them out. Check the bearing this may need a small amount of oil and again there are lots and lots of sites which will tell you how to do this. You might want to have a look at your idler wheel and check for damage. Grab yourself a strobe checker to make sure the decks running to speed, these can be downloaded and printed of you dont have one. You may also want to check the break pad, if its worn replace it, these can be found for a few quid off ebay. I think thats covered most of the basics, get it mounted into a plinth and have a listen. It will compare pretty well against your 1210 (remember I have both :)) but wont beat it. I have one purely to listen to classical, jazz, vocal with my Quad ESL57's, I drink single malt and have a very chilled out time with the Garrard :champagne:. I think the 1210 is the better deck but ultimately only you can decide.

Qwin
27-06-2014, 09:54
Nice one Darren

The 401 is a very good deck I have heard some very nice examples.

They need a fairly massy plinth to deal with the large wobbly motor, many use slate but the ones available off the shelf are £700 or more.

You could allways use concrete :D

REXTON
27-06-2014, 09:55
You might want to have a look at my restoration thread

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?14850-Garrard-301-restoration-project/page10&highlight=garrard+301+restoration

And if you check in the the Idler section you wil also see a 401 restoration project!

Forgot to mention as well that you might as well stick with your original Garrard rubber mat, I've tried Sorbothane, cork, EVA, Resomat and Acromat and still think the original mat works very very well indeed. This might save you a few quid.

Ali Tait
27-06-2014, 10:17
Love my 401, have it in a twin tier slate plinth with a Tecnoarm at the moment, but pman on getting a Trans-Fi arm at some point.

If the deck is in good working order, it's mostly the bearing and motor that need lubricating, and there are some rubber grommets that go hard so are worth replacung. Am at Glasto at the moment, PM me next week to remind me and I'll send a few links of servicing how to's.

A good way to see if it's been recently serviced is to remove the platter and see if the felt ring around the bearing spindle is wet with oil.

CageyH
27-06-2014, 12:00
Nice one.
Instead of buying some HiFi stuff, I finished a bathroom off. :ner:

Barry
27-06-2014, 13:23
Nice acquisition Darren - lucky man! :)

Your sample looks to be in very good condition. It has a low serial number and is a relatively early model: witness the raised cast logo on the top of the chassis and the double click supressors wired across the switch.

The advice offered by Andy (REXTON) makes admirable sense.

If it were mine, I would partner it with a a Series II SME arm (either 9" or 12") as these were contemporary with the 401. However there are a host of more modern arms available and there is no reason why you should not consider one of them (Ortofon/Jelco, SME, etc) to partner your 401.

Let us know how you get on.

Regards

Macca
27-06-2014, 13:51
Looks to be in lovely condition given it is 2 years older than me it has a lot less dings and scrapes. Not heard enough 401s to be certain but I would say they are at least on a par with an sl1200, but with a heftier bass that may or may not be a bit of colouration.

REXTON
27-06-2014, 14:21
Looks to be in lovely condition given it is 2 years older than me it has a lot less dings and scrapes. Not heard enough 401s to be certain but I would say they are at least on a par with an sl1200, but with a heftier bass that may or may not be a bit of colouration.

My 301 has bass but nowhere as much as my 1210 mk2.

The Barbarian
27-06-2014, 14:26
That's interesting cos the only two decks ive ever heard that does real bass{to my ears} is a '401' & Tonwshend Elite Rock

A.Grail
28-06-2014, 08:12
Nice 401 Darren.
You have a twin spark suppressor type (Flush strobe, non serrated) which as you said is an earlier type and more desirable than later type 401's. The strobe assembly is more complex and the cosmetic finishes (Fascia plate etc) superior to later versions.

In terms of basic servicing:
Clean the inner running face of the platter Using isopropyl and a lint free cloth
Clean the pulley - Using isopropyl and a lint free cloth
Clean the running face of the idler wheel Using purified water and a lint free cloth
Check for play in the idler housing bearings - place fingers on the periphery of the idler in the 12 and 6 o'clock position and rock alternately. Then try the 9 and 3 o'clock positions - any movement?
Check for play in the spindle - Place fingers on the periphery of the platter (Whilst in situ on the spindle) in the 12 and 6 o'clock position and rock alternately. Then try the 9 and 3 o'clock positions - any movement?
On the underside observe the idler housing arrangement there are three rubber grommets attaching the assembly to the chassis - are they dry / deteriorated?
Remove the spindle housing from the chassis, remove the base plate of the spindle housing and remove the thrust bearing and spindle. clean the bearing, spindle and the inside of the housing with isopropyl (A small bottle brush is handy) prior to re lubrication of the felt washer (Sits on top of the housing at the base of the spindle and feeds the top bush (Lubricate liberally), the small screw close to the base of the spindle (visible on top of the housing) gives access to the oiling chamber for the bottom bush - Oil liberally)
Remove the idler wheel from the idler housing (Two screws) clean the pins of the idler wheel and lubricate the top and bottom bushes
Check none of the springs (Visible on the underside of the unit) are visibly stretched out
You may note a loud bang noise emanating from your speakers when switching the unit on or off...This will be the spark suppressors which will likely need replacing if not now soon.
You may note I have not mentioned the motor which ideally should be stripped down and rebuilt this is due to the felt oil reservoir lubricating washers which are likely to be either dry or 'varnished' from age old oil the same is true of the bearings which are sintered bronze (Porous, they get clogged and can not fully retain lubricant (These can be heated to leech out the oil prior to heated re lubrication) . To gain access the riveted top and bottom plates need to be removed, to reveal the the bearings and felts. This process is fairly straightforward and well documented however options on re affixing the plates vary from nut and screws to re riveting.
As has been previously mentioned a greasing of the linkages at all contacts and joints is a good idea.

Tips:
Use a light flexible power cable as the motor is suspended and a stiff or heavy lead may push or pull on the motor which will cause noise.
Speed can be adjusted by moving the magnet closer (To slow down) or higher to speed up the unit. This adjustment can be made via the small screw visible south east of the idler housing cut out on top of the chassis (Visible with the platter removed)

For checks on what constitutes a buggered 401 see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBBMZKnhh0Y

REXTON
28-06-2014, 08:52
THAT is very good advice.

DarrenHW
28-06-2014, 10:33
Thanks for all the replies, links and info gents :thumbsup: Sorry for taking so long to reply, I'm having issues with my ISP's DNS so getting online is quite temperamental at the moment :steam:.

Andy - How's it going, how are you getting on with your speaker refurb? Your stunning 301 is in no small way responsible for me keeping an eye out for a Garrard. The 401's nowhere near as attractive as the 301 in my opinion but the more time I spend with the 401 the more it's growing on me. Thanks for the all the info and link to your 301 refurb, need to make some time and read through it, if I do continue with this, I'll be happy if it turns out anywhere near as well as your refurb :stalks:! Unfortunately I don't have the original mat, best option I have available is the Reso Mat.

Ali - Thanks for the offer of the servicing links. A Trans Fi's on my hit list for the future, for which Ken's adventures with Techies is solely responsible!

Ken - Thanks, concrete did cross my mind. I'm in the process of casting concrete copings for a job I have on at the moment, it's a long and laborious process:(. After suffering concrete burns a few years ago I really don't like working with concrete and I don't like the copings I'm having to churn out which make the process even less enjoyable! It does however present the opportunity with a fairly simple mold to knock up a very cost effective plinth, definitely food for thought, thanks.

Kev - I didn't mean to buy it, it was an accident!:) This really wasn't a planned purchase, I'm supposed to be selling off the small mountains of equipment I'm not keeping to fund a new Croft 25 and servicing my Quad 405. I made this decision a month ago, but since then all I've done is buy more stuff, I've not sold a thing, need to be more focused on the task in hand but what can you do when opportunities present themselves? On that subject, do you have a new pair of speakers???

Barry - Thank you. Did we meet at Marco's or was that another Barry?

Martin - It is in pretty good physical condition, however it would seem (please see videos below) that a few of it's moving parts might be in need of replacement surgery, it would seem the aging process is inextricable.

Andre - If the 401 gets praise from you for it's bass reproduction then it must be really, really good! :)

Matt - Thanks for all the info, and for taking the time to post it! So far I've been through part of your check list and have uploaded some videos of what would seem to be problem areas:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isGk38KxoFI

There is play in the spindle from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock all other axis seem okay. The felt washer is bone dry so no sign of recent servicing. Is this terminal?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo9ylEWYonM

Idler wheel's bearings seem to be knackered. It's not ver audible in the video but the wheel makes a grinding noise when spun and there is play in it. Would this mean a replacement wheel is required or can the bearings be replaced? On the plus side the speed disk seems okay.

A.Grail
28-06-2014, 10:56
Perfect! showing the issues with films makes diagnosis so much easier - Trouble shooting blind can be a long winded exercise.

The felt pad on the top of the bearing housing may well denote the top bush has not received adequate lubrication. In the mean time buy a new one soak it and strip the bearing housing, cleanse it and charge with oil - THe slack in the bearing will take up some of the slack - If however considerable movement is still noted then new bushes would be advised.

The idler wheel bushes are bone dry hence the noise, remove the idler wheel top plate and clean the pins of the idler wheel, then clean out the idler housing bushes, some people like to use a little grease on the bottom bush which again will take up a little slack, the top bush I always lubricate and add a drop on top of the bush once the idler is re installed in the housing with the top plate in place. - Test for movement again, the wheel should spin more quietly now - if there is still lots of movement within the idler housing new bushes may be required.

Bushes, felt oil pads, spark suppressors, and idler housing grommets are all available form Perfect Sound.

Good luck

DarrenHW
28-06-2014, 13:25
Cheers Matt :youtheman:, a quick clean and a little lube seems to have sorted everything out, not as thorough as it could have been but right now I just want to establish what condition everything's in before deciding whether to proceed with this or not.

A couple of videos:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swa6bqIRGFo&feature=youtu.be

Doesn't feel like there's much play in the spindle, although the only way I can measure it is by giving it a wiggle, you can see in the video there is still some play, I know it's difficult to judge from the video but is this acceptable?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIzbHBwm0SQ&feature=youtu.be

No noise coming from the idler.

Spindle seems to be in good condition although this is only via visual inspection, I can't see any sign of excessive wear? Bottom plate's still a bit cruddy and the spindle still need more of a polish but I'll leave this until I have a replacement gasket.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4258_zps59180181.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4258_zps59180181.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4261_zps163a1a8e.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4261_zps163a1a8e.jpg.html)

Next step will be to inspect the motor but I'm out of time today, so far would everyone agree this is a worthy candidate for restoration?

REXTON
28-06-2014, 14:53
Darren,

Nice to see that you are progressing well. I think you've answered your own question by the fact that your restoring it!!! Keep up the good work and you'll have a deck that will prolly see you out.. :eek: The Resomat is a good option, I must admit to not doing a lot of experimenting with the one I own as it normally lives on my 1210. I would follow the advice from audio grail and buy some new bits and pieces from ebay, it's a one time purchase and once its done you can sit back and relax with your 401 when you've finished it off. The motor is very simple to strip and clean I dont think you'll have much trouble doing that. I actually prefer the look of the 401 to the 301 but thanks for the kind comments with regards the appearence of my 301. ;) I have now finished my JR149's and am now thinking on moving them on as I need to drop some more of my hifi kit, I've gone from 8 pairs of speakers down to 4 and TBH I hardly use the 149's. :(

Andy

DarrenHW
28-06-2014, 15:58
Cheers Andy. I'd consider what I'm doing at the moment more a basic service than a restoration. I want to make sure everything checks out okay, then look at the cost involved in a full blown restoration including plinth and arm.

A.Grail
28-06-2014, 16:24
To check if the spindle bushes have too much play, place the platter on the unit with your fingers positioned at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions (On the periphery of the platter) and rock with alternate pressure, then try the 3 and 9 o'clock positions, how is the movement now?
To check the condition of the idler (With the platter in place and the unit powered) remove the platter mat and run the unit at 33 1/3 with your ear close to the mid left of the platter can you hear a cyclical thudding? If so the idler wheel has a flat spot.

REXTON
28-06-2014, 18:46
If you dont intend making your own plinth I'd get one from Moldova just like the one I bought. He does some exotic wood finishes. The cost for any part for the 301 or 401 has been pretty much determined by perfect sound suppliers on eBay. You can save a lot of money if you do a little lateral thinking. I think they want £20 for 4 mounting bolts, I made my own for under £7! Anway i think you need to spend some time going through the deck and then working out what needs to be spent on it.

DarrenHW
30-06-2014, 08:51
Popped the cover off the motor, some sign of oil in there but not much:

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4344_zps360b2855.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4344_zps360b2855.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4347_zpsbb289a73.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4347_zpsbb289a73.jpg.html)

A few marks around the bushing, sorry for the poor quality of the photo, I can't get a shot inside the bushing.

Does this look okay, can I apply some sewing machine oil and reassemble, do I need to check or clean anything else here?

REXTON
30-06-2014, 09:18
I'd clean it and apply fresh oil.

A.Grail
30-06-2014, 10:15
Popped the cover off the motor, some sign of oil in there but not much:

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4344_zps360b2855.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4344_zps360b2855.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4347_zpsbb289a73.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4347_zpsbb289a73.jpg.html)

Does this look okay, can I apply some sewing machine oil and reassemble, do I need to check or clean anything else here?

To gain access to the felt oil reservoir pads the x4 rivets will need to be drilled out, this will allow you to remove the bearing, spring washer. ball bearing and felt reservoir. Due to Age and heat the felt washer will be varnished as will the pours of the bearings (Hindering correct lubrication feed). If you have no means of re riveting the top and bottom plates the best thing to do will be to clean the bushes as best you can and give them a very good soak. You will note the bearing design is ''self centering' in reality this takes a little time once you re assemble the motor spinning the rotor or pulling gently up and down (Whilst spinning it) to find the sweet spot (Quietest running position), getting this part of the alignment correct once lubricated is the key. The nuts on top of the clams tighten the motor and again have their effect on the alignment so the same procedure again, - sometimes a light knock with a rubber mallet or similar on the corners of the motor assists with gaining the sweet spot (Do not over tighten the motor nuts!)

DarrenHW
30-06-2014, 11:13
To gain access to the felt oil reservoir pads the x4 rivets will need to be drilled out, this will allow you to remove the bearing, spring washer. ball bearing and felt reservoir.)

Hi Matt, sorry if I'm being stupid but I can't find x4 rivets, when trying to google this I found the following (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/AG%20Ebay%20Shop/AG%20SERVICING%20MASTER/401-june-17.jpg), amazing restoration btw!

A.Grail
30-06-2014, 11:25
Hi Matt, sorry if I'm being stupid but I can't find x4 rivets, when trying to google this I found the following (http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/AG%20Ebay%20Shop/AG%20SERVICING%20MASTER/401-june-17.jpg), amazing restoration btw!

My apologies (I blame the Cadmium!) 401's have x3 rivets (301's have 4) See circled in pink
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/401motorrivets.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/401motorrivets.jpg.html)

DarrenHW
30-06-2014, 13:51
My apologies (I blame the Cadmium!) :)

Cheers Matt, thought I was going mad! I've cleaned the bushing and filled with oil, probably won't have another chance to work on this again till the weekend so I'll leave everything soaking till then. Thanks again.

Primalsea
30-06-2014, 18:11
Good find. I bought and restored a 401 quite a few years ago and I still have it with no hankering to change it. Mine had a ropey idler wheel which I cleaned with meths and then put into a sealable plastic bag filled with cooking oil and left it to sit on the hot water tank for a couple of weeks. The lighter oils absorb back into the rubber and restore it. 7 - 8 years later the wheel is still in fine condition. A good service really does help with these machines.

I use a SDS platter on top of the 401 platter and a rubber platter from a Dual 501 on top of that - hey it works for me.

DarrenHW
30-06-2014, 18:31
Mine had a ropey idler wheel which I cleaned with meths and then put into a sealable plastic bag filled with cooking oil and left it to sit on the hot water tank for a couple of weeks. The lighter oils absorb back into the rubber and restore it. 7 - 8 years later the wheel is still in fine condition.

Great tip thanks Paul.

Marco
01-07-2014, 17:15
Yo Dazza,

Love the 401 - nice acquisition... When you get a plinth on it, gizza shout and I'll come and have a listen! :cool:

Marco.

DarrenHW
01-07-2014, 17:30
Yo Dazza,

Love the 401 - nice acquisition... When you get a plinth on it, gizza shout and I'll come and have a listen! :cool:

Marco.

Will do, hoping to get it in a plinth with an RB300 this weekend, just so you're prepared it won't be pretty and it may be sat on the floor :eek: I'll see if I can move some stuff around but you know what my lounge is like. May have some free time next week, will be in touch when I know what I'm up to :cool:.

Marco
01-07-2014, 17:39
Sounds like a plan, muchacho - look forward to it! :cool:

Btw, did you ever get sorted out with some nice ECC82s for the valve output stage on your CDP? If not, I'd recommend these: http://www.tubemonger.com/MAZDA_BELVU_France_1959_MPs_NOS_NIB_ECC82_12AU7MIL _p/1208.htm

Trust me, they'll be quality....

Marco.

DarrenHW
01-07-2014, 18:19
Sounds like a plan, muchacho - look forward to it! :cool:

Btw, did you ever get sorted out with some nice ECC82s for the valve output stage on your CDP? If not, I'd recommend these: http://www.tubemonger.com/MAZDA_BELVU_France_1959_MPs_NOS_NIB_ECC82_12AU7MIL _p/1208.htm

Trust me, they'll be quality....

Marco.

That CDP's currently been ousted by an Oppo, it's a better player but I do miss the valves :(. Wouldn't mind bringing it round to yours at some point if your up for it see how it sounds through your system before I completely turn my back on the valve output stage.

Marco
01-07-2014, 18:29
We can do that, no worries... I thought that your Marantz sounded superb, though!!

Marco.

DarrenHW
01-07-2014, 18:54
Cool! The Marantz is still here but the Oppo's in the rack at the moment, still making a decision and then there's the further confusion of a DAC to consider :doh:.

Marco
01-07-2014, 20:15
My advice would be not to get rid of the Marantz (and your valve output stage). I'm quite surprised you think that the OPPO is better. I'll give you my view, as soon as you have some free time for me to pop over for a listen! ;)

Marco.

DarrenHW
02-07-2014, 17:21
My advice would be not to get rid of the Marantz (and your valve output stage). I'm quite surprised you think that the OPPO is better. I'll give you my view, as soon as you have some free time for me to pop over for a listen! ;)

Marco.

Sorry to take so long to get back to you, 21:15's past my bedtime :wheniwasaboy: The Marantz is still here (having learnt from my previous mistakes!), would be interested to get your take on it. Tried it with a pair of Phillips ECC81's briefly last night and initial impression is that they're a better match for it than the Mullard ECC83's.

Alex_UK
02-07-2014, 21:12
As a fellow 401 owner - welcome to the Club. Great thread - and BIG thanks to Matt at Audiograil for your advice from a purveyor of truly astonishing looking Garrards - great to see trade members that aren't only gagging for a sale getting stuck in. :thumbsup:

Marco
02-07-2014, 21:18
Sorry to take so long to get back to you, 21:15's past my bedtime :wheniwasaboy: The Marantz is still here (having learnt from my previous mistakes!), would be interested to get your take on it. Tried it with a pair of Phillips ECC81's briefly last night and initial impression is that they're a better match for it than the Mullard ECC83's.

Just let me know when you're free and I'll pop over :)

Marco.

DarrenHW
03-07-2014, 05:35
BIG thanks to Matt at Audiograil for your advice from a purveyor of truly astonishing looking Garrards - great to see trade members that aren't only gagging for a sale getting stuck in. :thumbsup:

+1 :youtheman: AoS has a great community spirit with so many members willing to offer advice and guidance with no alternator motive :grouphug:

The motor bushing's currently soaking up oil (as per Matt's advice) and I'm hoping (time permitting) to get it reassembled tomorrow.

REXTON
03-07-2014, 07:39
Can't wait to see the old bugger working. :D

Tim
03-07-2014, 08:19
BIG thanks to Matt at Audiograil for your advice from a purveyor of truly astonishing looking Garrards
+2

Can I echo that as well. I have been emailing Matthew recently regarding my 401, which if anyone remembers has a corner cut off from the chassis. Matthew has been extremely helpful with very prompt and honest, informative replies . . . . So a big thanks to Audio Grail and Matthew from me as well.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/thumbsup.gif (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/thumbsup.gif.html)

DarrenHW
04-07-2014, 18:08
After a good soak I reassembled the motor bearing which was a bit fiddly but thanks to the advice above and a little bit of patience all went well :). I then stacked up some timbers to support the exceptionally high quality conti board plinth and ply arm board, this is what the 401 was sat in when I bought it :eek:.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4368_zpsb3f7a9b3.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4368_zpsb3f7a9b3.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4369_zpsb2528772.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4369_zpsb2528772.jpg.html)

Everything seems to we working well, I need a new brake pad and a gasket for the spindle (as it has a very slight leak) but that's about it. Using 2 steel rules one laid across the platter and the other upright from the plinth I measure less than 1mm of play in the spindle which I hope is an acceptable tolerance for the spindle bushing?

Very hard to gauge it's sonic abilities as the RB300 and AT110 (not to mention crappy wiring and ply arm board) are not a match for the FX1200 and AT440MLa I have in the Techie so this leaves me with the dilema I've been stuck on since the begining of this thread, do I just sell it or go with a full on restoration, plinth, arm, cart... After seeing Matt's current "Sable" restoration I'm tempted to go down the restoration route :scratch:

Thanks for everyone's help and encouragement with this :cool:.

jaym481
04-07-2014, 20:45
It looks like the record is on a Trans-fi Reso-mat, or something similar. If that's the case, do you have something on the platter to damp it? The 401 platter sings like Adelina Patti if it's not damped somehow.

DarrenHW
05-07-2014, 08:08
It looks like the record is on a Trans-fi Reso-mat, or something similar. If that's the case, do you have something on the platter to damp it? The 401 platter sings like Adelina Patti if it's not damped somehow.

It is indeed a Reso Mat but unfortunately other than the stock Technics mat I have no other mats to use, I am tempted to use a cork mat but to be honest that's low on my priority list at the moment.

Ali Tait
05-07-2014, 09:00
I've used a cork mat on my 401 but found the Resomat better. Stops static too!

jaym481
05-07-2014, 20:04
The Techie mat will probably give enough damping for the moment, but when you get the plinth sorted you may need something better. The anti-static benefit of a reso mat is huge. I use a SDS Isoplatmat mat under though. It damps the ringing very well.

Ali Tait
06-07-2014, 09:27
I bought some rings to fit the platter from the bay. Damp it down nicely.

ninedecks
06-07-2014, 11:29
I bought some rings to fit the platter from the bay. Damp it down nicely.

I did the same for one of my 301's. I fitted 2 of the giant 'o' rings to the machined grooves on the outside edge of the platter. It stopped the ringing that I was getting.
Dave

A.Grail
06-07-2014, 18:11
Great to see you have the 401 in a position to spin. As you are used to your techie, how do you perceive the pace of the 401?
In terms of mats the 401's platter profile enables the original 401 mat to sit 'within' the periphery of the platter. Garrard at the time saw this as an advancement on the 301 in terms of platter damping (As does Shindo). It is of course simple to flick the rim of the platter when stationery sans mat and hear how it rings. Most people don't try doing so when the platter is spinning which negates the damping effect of the idler wheel running on the inside of the platter. Personally I use thin silicone type mat (Cut to size) and a Tenuto Gun metal mat.

jaym481
06-07-2014, 20:11
I've powered mine up with the mat off and the platter "sings" as I mentioned above. A distinct ringing type of sound that's constant in pitch. Perhaps I need to do something more for servicing it?

A.Grail
06-07-2014, 21:31
I've powered mine up with the mat off and the platter "sings" as I mentioned above. A distinct ringing type of sound that's constant in pitch. Perhaps I need to do something more for servicing it?

Sorry to clarify, the platter bare of any mat will still resonate. The rubber idler wheel does damp the platter slightly but is also responsible for 'exciting' the platter. Garrards innovation with the 401 was to allow the mat to sit within the platter affording the platter with quite effective damping.

DarrenHW
07-07-2014, 10:19
Great to see you have the 401 in a position to spin. As you are used to your techie, how do you perceive the pace of the 401?


After a weekend with the 401 I'd say it's certainly the best TT I've owned apart from the Techie for timing / speed stability, the Techie still comes out on top, it sustains and decays to a level the 401 can't touch. The Techie has better timing than the 401, it's just far more exciting and has better rhythm. I don't know whether this is something that could be improved upon with a more rigorous servicing or an aftermarket thrust bearing but as it stands the Techie beats it hands down.

Marco
07-07-2014, 11:04
Interesting! Any chance I could pop round for a listeny-poo? :cool:

Marco.

DarrenHW
07-07-2014, 11:51
Interesting! Any chance I could pop round for a listeny-poo? :cool:

Marco.

Yes, would like a second opinion and I'm sure it would benefit from a good fettling. Running round like an idiot at the moment, will give you a ring later today.

Marco
07-07-2014, 11:55
Coolio :smoking:

Marco.

The Barbarian
07-07-2014, 15:22
I know what i prefer

:sofa:

DarrenHW
08-07-2014, 17:05
After a weekend with the 401 I'd say it's certainly the best TT I've owned apart from the Techie for timing / speed stability, the Techie still comes out on top, it sustains and decays to a level the 401 can't touch. The Techie has better timing than the 401, it's just far more exciting and has better rhythm. I don't know whether this is something that could be improved upon with a more rigorous servicing or an aftermarket thrust bearing but as it stands the Techie beats it hands down.

After an extended sesh today with Marco and David (Snapper) I can confirm that the above is a load of complete and utter bollocks! Whilst speed stability wasn't initially perfect once we'd spun a couple of tunes and placed the 401 on the rack (to my ears) speed stability was on par with the 1200, further more by the end of the day I preferred the music the 401 was making :eek:. Certainly not the result I was expecting, especially considering the 401 is balanced on a pile of stacked up timbers, it has a ply arm board and a hacked together tonearm cable with a rouge (and not insignificant) hum! I expected today to be the last innings for the 401 and that instead of writing this post I'd be listing it in the classifieds. Next step will be to drop it into a proper plinth and rewire the tonearm, my decission is made, it's not being sold anytime soon!

Marco
08-07-2014, 19:43
Nice one, Darren. Contrary to me supposedly being a 'Techy fanboy', I know how good a 401 can sound, so there was no way I was going to let you sell it until you'd heard it properly (or as properly as the cobbled together bits you've got would allow! :eyebrows:)

The Techy performed well, but the potential, I feel, is there for the 401 to be a bit special... When you've got the hum sorted out on the Garrard, I'll bring my own modded Techy over, as I'd like to hear it against it :)

Marco.

The Barbarian
08-07-2014, 19:50
I thought you be more of a 'TD124' man Marco?

Marco
08-07-2014, 19:53
I like both of them, Andre (in fact I love all ex-BBC broadcast T/Ts). If pushed, I'd take a TD124, but the Garrard's none too shabby either! :)

Marco.

The Barbarian
08-07-2014, 19:55
If you study the design of the '124' you will soon realise it was probably the best deck back then, a lot of thought went into that deck design imho..

Marco
08-07-2014, 20:18
It's difficult to beat Swiss engineering! :)

Marco.

A.Grail
14-07-2014, 21:52
The 401 can be a very capable turntable, I hope you enjoy the fruits of your future labor.

Marco
15-07-2014, 07:51
Hi Matt,

I'd agree, based on previous experience of listening to them and also what I heard from Darren's 401, at his place, which was definitely doing things (in certain areas) that his modded Technics wasn't.

That's why I was keen to try and let him hear that by maximising the set-up of the Garrard, which before I got there, was sat on the floor, and the Technics nicely perched on top of some Mana supports! ;)

Marco.

A.Grail
15-07-2014, 07:57
Hi Matt,


That's why I was keen to try and let him hear that by maximising the set-up of the Garrard, which before I got there, was sat on the floor, and the Technics nicely perched on top of some Mana supports! ;)

Marco.

Well played Sir

DarrenHW
15-07-2014, 18:29
Wired in some new flex and grounded the chassis at the same time, this has reduced the hum but it's still there :steam:. I've now ordered tonearm wire, clips and RCA's as it's currently wired up with bit's of scrap I had lying around, hopefully once this is done it will hum no more! As I have to order a new brake pad and bearing gasket I'll order some platter rings at the same time. On the subject of bearing gasket Perfect Sounds offer paper and wool felt gaskets, is there any benefit to using the wool felt?

REXTON
15-07-2014, 19:29
You dont have to use platter rings if you dont want to, I never used them but if you think they make a difference please let me know. I think wool/felt gaskets will last longer.

Ali Tait
15-07-2014, 20:14
You need them if you go for a Reso Mat, but otherwise a rubber or cork mat will damp the platter no problem.

REXTON
15-07-2014, 21:11
Its widely known that the 301 is fussy with regards too mat's and the garrard mat works probably better than anything else. But would the 301 sound better with platter rings as well? :scratch:

A.Grail
15-07-2014, 22:39
Either gasket are fine. Garrard didn't use felt - I have found greasing the gasket to be beneficial prior to installation.

Some people use the platter rings on strobe 301's and there used to be a large 1" or more high band available for non strobe platters, I can't remember the seller of those but I have one knocking about somewhere.

In terms of damping the platter one of the most interesting mats I've seen was the Shindo mat which is made of leaded cloth (Similar material to the stuff x-ray protective aprons are made of)

In terms of hum (Often system dependent) does your arm have two earths (Ie one to the underside of the 401 chassis and one to your SUT / phono etc?)

One of the most critical things to tackle in terms of rumble minimization is the Idler wheel. It's a big ask for a 50 yr old piece of centered rubber to be as good as the day it was made. I'm not saying all original idlers are out of whack but the odds are against them in general

BTH K10A
15-07-2014, 22:57
I like both of them, Andre (in fact I love all ex-BBC broadcast T/Ts). If pushed, I'd take a TD124, but the Garrard's none too shabby either! :)

Marco.

On sound quality I'd take a 401 over a 301 or TD124 anyday. If 4 wasn't an unlucky number in the far east the prices for them would be a lot higher.

DiveDeepDog
15-07-2014, 23:57
On sound quality I'd take a 401 over a 301 or TD124 anyday. If 4 wasn't an unlucky number in the far east the prices for them would be a lot higher.


+1 I think my 401's edge my 301, the 301 (grey grease) has more drive, better suited to rock, the 401's more refined. Not much in it though ;-)

FWIW, the strobe 301 rings like a bell, I use one rubber band (O Ring) and a Funk Mat most of the time

Marco
16-07-2014, 00:42
On sound quality I'd take a 401 over a 301 or TD124 anyday. If 4 wasn't an unlucky number in the far east the prices for them would be a lot higher.

Could be a personal taste thing (and also in what context one has heard the respective T/Ts). I like them all (preferring them to virtually any modern T/Ts), but to my ears the TD124s I've auditioned have outperformed the Garrards, in the areas of music reproduction that matter most to me.

However, with motor-only units, there are so many variables, not least of which is what they are mounted on! In that respect, I'm quite sure I could be persuaded to prefer a 401 or 301, to a TD-124, if either of the former were suitably optimised to my tastes :)

Looks-wise, however, nothing touches one of Matt's gorgeously refurbished 'Hammerite grey' BBC 301s!! :drool:

Marco.

BTH K10A
16-07-2014, 05:44
Could be a personal taste thing (and also in what context one has heard the respective T/Ts). I like them all (preferring them to virtually any modern T/Ts), but to my ears the TD124s I've auditioned have outperformed the Garrards, in the areas of music reproduction that matter most to me.

However, with motor-only units, there are so many variables, not least of which is what they are mounted on! In that respect, I'm quite sure I could be persuaded to prefer a 401 or 301, to a TD-124, if either of the former were suitably optimised to my tastes :)

Looks-wise, however, nothing touches one of Matt's gorgeously refurbished 'Hammerite grey' BBC 301s!! :drool:

Marco.

Yes, they are all quality enginered decks and it does come down to personal taste. I prefer the looks of the 301 but the 401 certainly has a better motor. The TD124 I had lacked the grip on the lower frequencies that the Garrards have. Incidently I've owned both grey GB and white OB versions of the 301 and I couldn't honestly say that there was any difference between oil or grease in terms of SQ but I prefer the mor vintage ;ooking hammered finish. Of the three the only one I've kept it the 401 although I haven't used it in years as I much prefer my EMT 930.

DarrenHW
16-07-2014, 06:13
Either gasket are fine. Garrard didn't use felt - I have found greasing the gasket to be beneficial prior to installation.

Paper it is then, thanks for the tip.


In terms of hum (Often system dependent) does your arm have two earths (Ie one to the underside of the 401 chassis and one to your SUT / phono etc?)

No the arm only has 1 earth - to the phono stage. With the rewire I intend to ground the shielding to the chassis and the tonearm to the phono stage, is this the right way to go?

Barry
16-07-2014, 16:55
On sound quality I'd take a 401 over a 301 or TD124 anyday. If 4 wasn't an unlucky number in the far east the prices for them would be a lot higher.

Over forty years ago I tried to buy myself a Garrard 401. I had so much trouble with the dealer/supplier, that I gave up and looked for a Goldring G99 instead. Still couldn't get one; so I picked up a Collaro 2020 TT (rim drive like the 301/401) for virtually nothing and fitted an SME 3009 arm to it.

The Collaro wasn't as well made as the 301/401, but it performed very well, and stood as a stop gap until such time (a few months later) as I got the TT I really wanted: a Thorens TD 124/II. Since acquiring the Thorens I haven't looked back and now have three of them, fitted with different arms and cartridges.

Would agree the 301/401 designs have a better 'grip' and 'heft' in the bass compared to the 124, but the latter shows advantages across the rest of the frequency range.

The EMT 930 has it all though IMO.

DarrenHW
28-07-2014, 12:32
New tonearm wire installed and thankfully the hum is gone! Unsurprisingly the sonic improvements are substantial and I'm really starting to like what the 401 does.

Marco - How are you fixed for a sesh on Friday? I also have the Oppo and the Marantz (with 2 pairs of ECC83's, 1 pair ECC82's and 1 pair ECC81's) setup.

walpurgis
28-07-2014, 12:36
New tonearm wire installed and thankfully the hum is gone! Unsurprisingly the sonic improvements are substantial and I'm really starting to like what the 401 does.

Yeah, a well set up 401 powers along rather nicely. A bit more directness than an LP12 for instance. I used a 401 for many years.

Marco
28-07-2014, 12:36
New tonearm wire installed and thankfully the hum is gone! Unsurprisingly the sonic improvements are substantial and I'm really starting to like what the 401 does.

Marco - How are you fixed for a sesh on Friday? I also have the Oppo and the Marantz (with 2 pairs of ECC83's, 1 pair ECC82's and 1 pair ECC81's) setup.

Suits me, dude! Shall I pop round about 11-ish? :)

Marco.

DarrenHW
28-07-2014, 13:20
Suits me, dude! Shall I pop round about 11-ish? :)

Marco.

Works for me, I'll give you a bell on Thursday :cool:

Marco
28-07-2014, 13:39
Nice one :thumbsup:

Marco.

DarrenHW
19-02-2015, 20:05
Itís been a while since I updated this thread but the acquisition of a second 401 has inspired me to get started on the restoration.

First job was to completely disassemble the motor, before doing this itís worthwhile using a feeler gauge between the Eddy disc and the motor so you know where to position the disc on reassembly. 0.9mm seemed the best fit.

Once Iíd disassembled the motor housing I used a 3mm drill bit to drill out the rivets and removed this mess.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4796_zpsad1bfbe2.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4796_zpsad1bfbe2.jpg.html)

Cleaned all parts with IPA, (I've done the same with the top housing).

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4802_zps50d087d6.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4802_zps50d087d6.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4804_zpsde4f98ff.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4804_zpsde4f98ff.jpg.html)

I used a gas burner to clean the bearings and setup a DIY hot oil bath, probably not for the health and safety conscious :mental:.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4808_zpsba14aa2b.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4808_zpsba14aa2b.jpg.html)

Iíve soaked the bearings during the day applying heat approximately every 45 minutes and have just dropped in the new felt washers in to soak. It will probably be 36 hours before I can reassemble it which should be plenty of soak time.

REXTON
19-02-2015, 20:11
AAAaaahhhh this brings back some fond memories, good luck!

DarrenHW
19-02-2015, 20:16
Cheers Andy, I understand the "AAAaaahhhh", working on the Techie drove me crazy at times (mostly those involving a soldering iron and an order from Farnell), working on the 401's positively therapeutic.

Barry
19-02-2015, 20:44
After you have refurbished your 401, you can buy some underware for the girl in your avatar! :lol:

DarrenHW
19-02-2015, 21:05
Good eye Barry, stumbled across her whilst trying to find some info on a bit of vintage HiFi.

The Barbarian
19-02-2015, 22:16
Yeh buy her summert to eat while your at it :D

Marco
19-02-2015, 22:46
Ah... Who let the beaver out? :eyebrows:

Marco.

struth
19-02-2015, 23:11
You've all got better eyes than this old yin...|I can BARELY see the avataar:(

Barry
19-02-2015, 23:14
You've all got better eyes than this old yin... I can BARELY see the avatar :(

Too much 'self abuse' in your youth Grant?

walpurgis
19-02-2015, 23:17
I get 'beaver fever' easily! :eek:

struth
19-02-2015, 23:22
Too much 'self abuse' in your youth Grant?

YOUTH ?????:eek:

Barry
19-02-2015, 23:23
Apologies for the thread drift Darren - I didn't think my casual 'observation' would have caused so much interest. :eyebrows:

Barry
19-02-2015, 23:25
YOUTH ?????:eek:

Ah - start as you mean to carry on. :D

DarrenHW
20-02-2015, 06:46
Yeh buy her summert to eat while your at it :D

There's a ham sandwich gag there somewhere, anyway I thought you liked long thin legs :D.


You've all got better eyes than this old yin...|I can BARELY see the avataar:(

I didn't think it was that obvious either, I thought it would be a while before anyone noticed, not minutes after I uploaded it.


Apologies for the thread drift Darren - I didn't think my casual 'observation' would have caused so much interest. :eyebrows:

Not a problem, now I know how to a get a thread trending!



Anyone got any thoughts on the motor strip,
http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/large_zps95dc9a1e.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/large_zps95dc9a1e.jpg.html)
anything else I should do before reassembly?

The Barbarian
20-02-2015, 14:31
I know what id be rather be servicing & it aint the '401' :eyebrows:

shane
20-02-2015, 17:42
Good eye Barry, stumbled across her whilst trying to find some info on a bit of vintage HiFi.

I'm so glad you said stumbled....

REXTON
20-02-2015, 19:59
Darren,

Martin Bastin told me that the 401 responds nicely to being rewired, this dosen't seem to be the case with 301's. Just a quick tip. :)

Andy

DarrenHW
21-02-2015, 06:53
Andy,

Do you have anymore info on this i.e. different gauge, routing, shielding etc... On the subject of wiring what did you replace your mains cable with?

REXTON
21-02-2015, 08:39
Andy,

Do you have anymore info on this i.e. different gauge, routing, shielding etc... On the subject of wiring what did you replace your mains cable with?

Martin has promised me more info on the topic but didn't spill any beans :(. I did replace the mains cable with a light flexible cable a decent silver plated plug and a silver fuse, don't know if it made much difference but I had them sitting in the garage. Don't use anything heavy for the mains cable as you don't want to interfere with the motor housing suspension. Heavy cables pull the springs down and lessen their ability at dampening vibration into the motor. I'd just concentrate on getting your 401 restored. Vibration isolation, earthing, and rewiring are all things to come. :eek:

A.Grail
21-02-2015, 11:21
Taking the wiring from the 'spring holder' helps to remove vibration transmitted from the motor to the cables to the chassis via the chassis fixed spring. Instead the wiring can be secured to a plate afixed to the grommet isolated plate and run from there - The BBC did similar with the DRD5, as did Westrex as does Bastin

DarrenHW
22-02-2015, 14:36
Bearings soaked for 48 hours, felt washers soaked for 24 hours time to reassemble.

To replace the rivets I used M2.5 12mm Stainless Steel Hex Head bolts. This will facilitate easier future servicing and they cost me a grand total of £2.55 (and that's only because I ordered 50), far cheaper than a Garrard Motor Bearing Service Kit.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4818_zps682e3f97.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4818_zps682e3f97.jpg.html)

Although they don't look it the heads leave adequate clearance the the rotor.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4824_zps71210ec2.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4824_zps71210ec2.jpg.html)

12mm is the perfect length for the motor housing and can be used on the top housing without fouling the Eddy disc (I forgot to take a photograph of the top :doh:).

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_4825_zps6fdcef28.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_4825_zps6fdcef28.jpg.html)

Although a visual inspection did not show any wear to the ball bearing rolling it on a flat surface it came to an abrupt stop. I dabbed the top with a dry wipe marker rolled it again (and again and again) and the mark was consistently at the top. I wiped the ball bearing and dropped it into the oil bath with the other parts (really just to insure I didn't loose it) and when it was time for reassemble I rolled the bearing, it stopped and I set the bearing down on top of it insuring the flat stop was at the bottom and the rotor would be sat on a fresh face.

I'l monitor the nuts over the coming weeks and if they're working loose I'll add some thread lock.

A very simple satisfying job, total cost including 2 new felt washer £10.53.

The Barbarian
22-02-2015, 14:40
Good job i just be a bit worried about motor vibration un loosening those nuts in the long term!

What about some Loctite '243' Thread-locking fluid in addition! or some nyloc nuts

DarrenHW
22-02-2015, 15:00
Good job i just be a bit worried about motor vibration un loosening those nuts in the long term!

What about some Loctite '243' Thread-locking fluid in addition! or some nyloc nuts

Thank you. It has crossed my mind too, I've got the other motor to service now so I'll order some Nyloc nuts too, thanks for the suggestion.

DarrenHW
22-02-2015, 19:18
Taking the wiring from the 'spring holder' helps to remove vibration transmitted from the motor to the cables to the chassis via the chassis fixed spring. Instead the wiring can be secured to a plate afixed to the grommet isolated plate and run from there - The BBC did similar with the DRD5, as did Westrex as does Bastin

Thanks for the tip :).

Brian28
05-04-2015, 16:54
Hi guys , just brought a 401 myself , and this thread is so very helpful .

Many thanks !

Brian

DarrenHW
06-04-2015, 07:42
Hi Brian,

Glad it's helpful and welcome to AoS. What condition is your 401 / plinth / arm etc... and what do you plan on doing to it?

REXTON
06-04-2015, 17:34
Taking the wiring from the 'spring holder' helps to remove vibration transmitted from the motor to the cables to the chassis via the chassis fixed spring. Instead the wiring can be secured to a plate afixed to the grommet isolated plate and run from there - The BBC did similar with the DRD5, as did Westrex as does Bastin

+1 neat tip, every little helps!

DarrenHW
17-11-2016, 18:20
Now I'm getting into my music listening season i.e. unexpected downtime due to the weather, today I've inspected and serviced the 401 for the first time since the big clean and service on 22/02/2015. I'm very pleased with what I've found, there is no discernible play in any of the nuts and bolts (I never did get round to thread locking them :rolleyes:) no obvious wear and the felt pads are still saturated.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_7456_zps9vskzvow.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_7456_zps9vskzvow.jpg.html)

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u606/drtwas/IMG_7458_zpsvnqvmpug.jpg (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/drtwas/media/IMG_7458_zpsvnqvmpug.jpg.html)

The 401 has not seen 634 days of continuous use, in fact it's seen very little action for the past few months but none the less it's provided many hours of entertainment in that time. It celebrated it's 50th Birthday this year and with a little oil and a couple of felt pads I don't see why it won't see 50 more, Viva la 401!

REXTON
17-11-2016, 19:53
Darren, nice to see you posting again. I hope the 401 gets some usage of Xmas!! I'm still messing around with the 301 when I get time.