PDA

View Full Version : Greatest Ever Prog Album



Haselsh1
25-06-2014, 17:24
So, mine is definitely 'In The Court of the Crimson King' what is yours...?
You can explain why as well if you like...!

Barry
25-06-2014, 21:20
We await André's reply with anticipation.

mr sneff
25-06-2014, 21:24
We await André's reply with anticipation.
:lol:

The Barbarian
25-06-2014, 22:02
King Crimson ' In The Court Of The Crimson King: An Observation By King Crimson'

Jimbo
26-06-2014, 07:34
King Crimson ' In The Court Of The Crimson King: An Observation By King Crimson'

Bought a very nice original copy of that for£2 a few months ago from a small shop in Keswick. Nice condition too!

Haselsh1
26-06-2014, 12:26
Bought a very nice original copy of that for£2 a few months ago from a small shop in Keswick. Nice condition too!

Everytime I visited Keswick in the past I used to visit a small antique shop close to a whisky shop where lots of vinyl was for sale but then sadly, the prices shot up and I never went back there. Originally I could buy old vinyl for a few quid but then it became twelve or fourteen pounds which to me simply wasn't worth it.

Jimbo
26-06-2014, 12:42
Everytime I visited Keswick in the past I used to visit a small antique shop close to a whisky shop where lots of vinyl was for sale but then sadly, the prices shot up and I never went back there. Originally I could buy old vinyl for a few quid but then it became twelve or fourteen pounds which to me simply wasn't worth it.

This is the same place Shaun. The owner did put the price of everything up but did you know there was a basement full of stuff aswell? All the stuff down there was £2 - £4.

The Barbarian
26-06-2014, 13:07
Even £40 would be cheap for a 1st issue of 'ITCOTCK'

Haselsh1
26-06-2014, 15:57
OK, I never knew there was a basement full of stuff as well. These days I have to do with a rather grotty little travelling record fair when it visits Cleethorpes but it is a shadow of what it used to be however some of the stuff is two quid a piece and if you inspect it, it can't be crap can it...? I have just gone back from a Moth RCM to a Spin Clean using an IPA based cleaning solution so I am looking forward to getting more used vinyl.

DSJR
26-06-2014, 16:54
I have to agree with the choice, although slightly older people than I (I'm 57) may well prefer Pawn Hearts by Van der Graaf Generator, which I find not to my taste. The late 60's was such an incredible time for changing and developing rock music styles in general, it's difficult to pick one album that all but cemented things together. The KC choice does this as well or better than anything else from this period I think, although ELP's first three outings, Tarkus especially, may possibly qualify.

P.S. Does anything by Soft Machine from this period qualify?

Barry
26-06-2014, 19:11
Oh, if we're talking Soft Machine, then I would choose either Volume 2 or Third. (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?3198-Soft-Machine-An-Appreciation)

And if were talking Family then it would have to be Music in a Doll's House, followed by Family Entertainment.

Bazil
26-06-2014, 19:39
Without doubt for me it has to be ITCOTCK, its just perfect totally unsurpassed as a Prog album and the only KC album that I like.

Floyddroid
26-06-2014, 21:17
I has got one.
Even £40 would be cheap for a 1st issue of 'ITCOTCK'

Barry
26-06-2014, 21:38
'Tarkus' is a close second but i did not want too be greedy :D

btw: Soft Machine are not Prog.

They are, according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_progressive_rock_bands

mr sneff
26-06-2014, 22:01
'Tarkus' is a close second but i did not want too be greedy :D

btw: Soft Machine are not Prog.

Debateable how to classify Soft Machine I suppose ...... Tarkus, OK, but Jeremy Bender? :lol:

Light Dependant Resistor
26-06-2014, 22:02
"The Wall on which the prophets wrote, is cracking at the seams", Yes agree ITCOTCK

But there are many close seconds too like Close to the Edge, and Tales - Yes , Genesis Nursery Cryme &Foxtrot etc, with modern day bands honoring the tradition, like Dream Theatre
What defines a good prog album or song ? For me its the vocals that the other musicians closely follow reinforcing closely the endlessly vast storyline , that has much greater meaning having heard it.
Marillion too and their song Easter who could not include that, the guitar solo in particular being a hugely beautiful piece. Prog lives on !

Alex_UK
26-06-2014, 22:12
Well, I am a Philistine, and I have tried, believe me - but I just don't "get" ITCOTCK - so I am afraid it would be the obvious/boring choice from me - Dark Side of the Moon

Spectral Morn
26-06-2014, 22:36
In The Court Of The Crimson King - King Crimson

but.....

UK - UK
Yes - Close to the Edge
Yes - The Yes Album

...........


Regards Neil

Light Dependant Resistor
26-06-2014, 23:13
Pink Floyd are also not prog

Yes agree, Floyd occasionally get close to the beginnings of a prog theme in their music but then squash it with the mundane, or confine too narrowly with nothing more offered.
Listening to In the Court of the Crimson King , let us not forget Pete Sinfield provided the lyrics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sinfield ( and of course King Crimson the music, with Greg Lake on vocals )
The intro to the wikipedia page for him says it all
" Peter John Sinfield (born 27 December 1943) is an English poet and songwriter, most famously known as the lyricist and co-founding member of early incarnations of King Crimson, whose debut album In the Court of the
Crimson King has been regarded as one of the most influential progressive rock albums ever released.[1] "

Roy S
26-06-2014, 23:49
I'll go with this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/PleasePleaseMe.jpg

truly 'progressive' at the time

The Barbarian
27-06-2014, 06:46
:scratch:

Haselsh1
27-06-2014, 07:14
Hmmm... I've heard mention before that 'Sergeant Pepper' was the first ever prog album :scratch:

Of course I doubt we should forget Renaissance and Annie Haslam's crew. It has all of the pomp and fairytale of a classic prog sound with loads of complex time signatures and of course that classic, the Rickenbacker bass.

Haselsh1
27-06-2014, 07:14
Take a listen to the track 'Raja Khan' and that VCS3 solo.

Haselsh1
27-06-2014, 07:16
I'll go with this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/PleasePleaseMe.jpg

truly 'progressive' at the time

Is there such a thing as Prog Pop...?

Haselsh1
27-06-2014, 07:22
I also have to agree with that gent who stated that Pink Floyd are not Prog. They are definitely not by my standards of Prog but then who says that I am correct...? OK, I have to agree that the early Genesis albums are definitely Prog but was Prog just an early seventies thing...? Even the great Yes went off line a bit along the way. 'Owner of a Lonely Heart'...? I don't think so.

More up to date I adore the meanderings of Ozric Tentacles who could be termed Post Prog as their music almost fits the bill but without lyrics. I am not sure if true Prog still exists or not.

Jimbo
27-06-2014, 07:43
I am with you Alex regarding INTCOTCK, I found it noodley nonsense with maybe one good track. Mind you I find most prog rock noodley nonsense.

shane
27-06-2014, 08:55
Soft Machine aren't prog? I'd probably agree with that, but they were at the heart of Canterbury, as were Caravan who definitely were. Land of Grey and Pink is a real favourite (especially Winter Wine).

And what about Gong? Not prog, not Jazz, but the Radio Gnome trilogy tick most of the boxes when you try to define Prog.

Prog's one of those things that evaporates as soon as you try to pin it down, and there are as many definitions as there are fans, but we all think we know it when we hear it.

At this moment I'm listening to Blue Nile (Hats. Brilliant album). Again, not prog, but it fits in perfectly with my prog-leaning tastes. Who needs definitions anyway? It's the music that matters.

mr sneff
27-06-2014, 10:44
I also have to agree with that gent who stated that Pink Floyd are not Prog. They are definitely not by my standards of Prog but then who says that I am correct...? OK, I have to agree that the early Genesis albums are definitely Prog but was Prog just an early seventies thing...? Even the great Yes went off line a bit along the way. 'Owner of a Lonely Heart'...? I don't think so.

More up to date I adore the meanderings of Ozric Tentacles who could be termed Post Prog as their music almost fits the bill but without lyrics. I am not sure if true Prog still exists or not.

It depends how wide or narrow your definition of prog is. In the sense that Pink Floyd were pushing the musical boundaries of rock music by introducing new elements/sounds/structures then IMO they were progressive. Soft Machine too, especially Third was hugely innovative and still sounds fresh today. ITCOTCK probably did more than any other album to get the prog ball rolling and there doesn't seem to be much argument on this thread that it's the greatest prog album ever. That said, with the exception of The Construction of Light, it's probably the King Crimson album I listen to least. I can appreciate what it did, but I don't have a great desire to listen to it :)

Does prog still exist? Personally I find that the 'neo-prog' that I've listened to is rather derivative.

Anyway, does it really matter to anybody other than a pedant if you call Pink Floyd prog, psychedelic or baroque? It'll still sound as good or bad whatever the label.

Yomanze
27-06-2014, 11:19
Am not such a fan of classic prog except for Rush (sorry guys), but I do like progressive metal albums such as:

Fates Warning - A Pleasant Shade of Gray
Queensryche - Operation: Mindcrime
Opeth - Still Life
Devin Townsend - Ocean Machine: Biomech

mr sneff
27-06-2014, 11:42
Gent! :lol:

However i don't think i have the strength to go through this what is Prog debate again.

I keep telling people that prog only had a short lifespan. The simple way to explain it is this

From the ashes of Psychedelia sprouted many many new bands, these bands fall into the terms 'Proto Prog', 'Crossover-Prog' these are bands that are moving into the new Progressive music but still hold a lot qwalities from their roots, alot played in pubs & clubs as nobody's many years before..

1969-1972 are the best years..vast majority would just disappear after that as would the many spin off record labels that were created especially for this new type of music ie: Swirl Vertigo, RCA Neon etc.. The remainder of these bands would quickly evolve into full blown Prog.

The best example of a transition from non prog to non prog would be to section up the discography of a certain long standing band. YES for instance. I'm gonna cut their LP's up into sections as to show their progression status for each period.

'Proto-Prog' {Very early stages, simple no complexity}
1969: Yes 'Yes'..

You could Just {only just} slip in 1970: 'Time & A Word' but i'd rather position this LP's qualities to lie between the above & below

'Crossover Prog' {Early stages of Prog, still simple but with early but technical structures}
1971: 'The Yes Album' 1971: 'Fragile'

'Prog' {Full Blown Prog highly technical, Virtuoso Musicianship}
1972:'Close To The Edge'

1973: 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' {The ultimate Technicalities from YES IMHO}

Getting very close to the end Of Prog as far as im concerned.. However 'Relayer' was a credible offering but to me obviously nowhere near the technicalities of 'Topographics'

So within Prog you have three stages of progression..

I'm happy to listern to Material from a hand full of the more sucessfull prog bands right up to the late 70's but no way would i ever say the later were prog albums even though they may have technical merritt that would fit into the prog field.. Sorry Chaps but the old Barbarian has been conditioned by the almight Prog.

Maybe, maybe not.
Again, does it matter, and to who? :)

Macca
27-06-2014, 11:59
What about early 'Tull? Does that count as Prog?

mr sneff
27-06-2014, 13:36
What about early 'Tull? Does that count as Prog?

No doubt Andre will tell you the 'correct' answer :lol:

Macca
27-06-2014, 13:41
No doubt Andre will tell you the 'correct' answer :lol:

No doubt :) if it is prog then I quite like Minstrel, Benefit, Songs from the Wood and Heavy Horses. Otherwise I dont't think I have any genuine prog except a best of Yes which I just can't get into.

What about early 'Purple, does that count?

The Barbarian
27-06-2014, 14:04
First three Purps LP's {Mk.1 Purple} were originally released in the USA on Tetragammaton label, the band was at that time Proto-Prog.. The 'Concerto For Group & Orchestra' LP was a one off pretty much simular to what The Nice did with their 'Five Bridges Suite' LP.. The Group & Orchestra' LP was Mk.2 Purple with the new Ian Gillan & Roger Glover from Episode Six band..However all Mk.2 Albums after this were not Prog.

The Barbarian
27-06-2014, 14:14
People will argue till the cows come home about Tull being Prog, i never saw them as a prog band as they were too much Folk/Rock going on, However if you must be adamant then not until 'Thick As A Brick'..

Macca
27-06-2014, 15:02
Ah okay. Don't have Thick As A Brick, probably should get a copy. Good to know I have some 'Purple 'proto prog' though :)

mr sneff
27-06-2014, 15:45
People will argue till the cows come home about Tull being Prog

True, my wife and I argue about little else :)

petrat
27-06-2014, 18:05
For me, got be either Free Hand (Gentle Giant) or Gates of Delirium (Yes).
Saw them both at Newcastle City Hall in the mid '70s. Two truly innovative and stunning live bands at the height of their powers.

mik_rik
27-06-2014, 18:26
The Enid , In the Region of the Summer Stars

mr sneff
27-06-2014, 19:48
The Enid , In the Region of the Summer Stars

Not heard that one, but I certainly rate The Enid highly.

The Barbarian
28-06-2014, 10:43
For me, got be either Free Hand (Gentle Giant) or Gates of Delirium (Yes).
Saw them both at Newcastle City Hall in the mid '70s. Two truly innovative and stunning live bands at the height of their powers.

Gentle Giant were one of the UK's best Prog bands IMHO without a shadow of a doubt..The first four LP are exceptional.

petrat
29-06-2014, 12:31
For me, got be either Free Hand (Gentle Giant) or Gates of Delirium (Yes).
Saw them both at Newcastle City Hall in the mid '70s. Two truly innovative and stunning live bands at the height of their powers.

Also remember seeing an Italian band PFM at City Hall. Their albums were rather good, but seen live they had a tendency to do 20 minute violin solos. Back Door were supporting, with Colin Hodgkinson and the late Ron Aspery impressing.
My favourite Italian Prog band was Banco, who had a fantastic singer who was a sort of mini-Pavarotti ... their album on Manticore is still one of my faves.

Nigel
29-06-2014, 14:49
PFM debut album through to Passpartu is an exquisite musical celebration. Wonderful stuff. Likewise the Giant.

The Barbarian
29-06-2014, 17:53
Dunno Nigel i draw the line at 'Chocolate Kings' although the track ''Traveler'' from 'Jet Lag' is ok.. But for my money 'The World Became The World' & 'Photo's of Ghosts' are the LP's to have..great lyrical working for Pete Sinfield..

Those Early Italian sung PFM LP's on Numero Uno label are hard to locate..

The Barbarian
29-06-2014, 17:56
My favourite Italian Prog band was Banco, who had a fantastic singer who was a sort of mini-Pavarotti ... their album on Manticore is still one of my faves.

oo i dunno Le Orme at the time were a band not to be out done

Nigel
29-06-2014, 21:11
Hi Andre,

I prefer Passpartu over Jet Lag. I adore the short acoustic guitar instrumental on Jet Lag though, Peninsula. What a piece of music that is. I wouldn't want to be without any of them. Someone mentioned Renaissance earlier in the thread, I haven't got Prologue but have the next five or six albums. Heard side 2 of Novella before. Never fail to be moved by Annie's voice. Incredible. I believe she's from Bolton. North West England played it's part in prog.

petrat
29-06-2014, 21:49
Someone mentioned Renaissance earlier in the thread, I haven't got Prologue but have the next five or six albums. Heard side 2 of Novella before. Never fail to be moved by Annie's voice. Incredible. I believe she's from Bolton. North West England played it's part in prog.

Ha, saw them at City Hall, too :rolleyes: Annie stood on one spot, surrounded by Perspex sound barriers, presumably so she could hear herself. Stunning voice, but about as much stage presence as the microphone stand, from which she never moved. The bouffant bass player was OK too. :lol: I remember they played Scheherazade, which was beautifully done

It's strange that I can't remember what I did last Thursday, but I can remember all those 70s gigs :confused:

Haselsh1
01-07-2014, 20:19
I am still a massive Renaissance fan but my favourites are 'A Song for all Seasons' and 'Azur D'Or' which were around during the late 70's. 'Prologue' I think was their first album with their most successful line up including of course Annie Haslam. I just love 'Rajah Khan' from that album with that stunning VCS3 solo by that guy out of Sky.

Haselsh1
01-07-2014, 20:22
Francis Monkman...!!! That's his bloody name...!!

Alex_UK
01-07-2014, 22:13
Well, I've been playing ITCOTCK and maybe it's a "grower" - not declaring my undying love just yet but more than a one night stand!

The Grand Wazoo
01-07-2014, 22:17
Whenever I see it abbreviated like that, I read 'itchy cock'!

The Barbarian
01-07-2014, 22:30
:lolsign:

Barry
01-07-2014, 23:13
Whenever I see it abbreviated like that, I read 'itchy cock'!

Or perhaps “Itchycoo (Park)”, hence:

Small Faces – ‘Ogdens’ NutGone Flake’

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51uEqTW-M3L._SY355_.jpg

nekoni koban
22-07-2014, 11:19
Zappa's "Hot Rats"...? maybe not greatest, but top 20-ish

Enid's 'Aerie Faerie Nonsense' could also be in the top 20

Thick as a Brick and Tarkus were mentioned ... i think those r deserving as well

mr sneff
22-07-2014, 11:58
Zappa's "Hot Rats"...? maybe not greatest, but top 20-ish

Enid's 'Aerie Faerie Nonsense' could also be in the top 20

Thick as a Brick and Tarkus were mentioned ... i think those r deserving as well

Aerie Faerie Nonsense is a great album, Tarkus, the title track is great too, never rated the rest of the album much tho.

The Barbarian
22-07-2014, 14:38
:eek:

tpbholm
29-07-2014, 14:18
Got be Yes, Close To The Edge for me although I agree that In The Court Of The Crimson King is a classic.

There's some pretty good newer stuff around tho:
Anathema, Distant Satellites
Marillion, Sounds That Can't be Made - Gaza is an emotional tour de force
Steven Wilson, The Raven Who Couldn't Sing
Opeth, Heritage
Lighthouse, Lifelines
Transatlantic, Kaleidoscope - the bonus disc even has a cover version of And You And I.

YNWaN
29-07-2014, 14:46
Andr'e, I'm writing this here in the hope you will see it. You sent me a PM asking some paint finish questions. I did send you a response but it may well have got lost in the recent AoS 'brown out'. Anyway, I have just tried to PM you but get the message that you have chosen not to receive PM's - which is fine, but doesn't make it easy for me to respond to them!

Spectral Morn
29-07-2014, 15:00
The Enid , In the Region of the Summer Stars

Not Prog but Classical rock in a way like Sky but with some more prog elements..... imho


Regards Neil

Spectral Morn
29-07-2014, 15:03
I am still a massive Renaissance fan but my favourites are 'A Song for all Seasons' and 'Azur D'Or' which were around during the late 70's. 'Prologue' I think was their first album with their most successful line up including of course Annie Haslam. I just love 'Rajah Khan' from that album with that stunning VCS3 solo by that guy out of Sky.

Excellent albums those two as is Turn of the Cards


Regards Neil

synsei
29-07-2014, 17:03
The Enid , In the Region of the Summer Stars

My favourite Enid album is Salome, definitely not prog though ;)

Spectral Morn
29-07-2014, 20:01
My favourite Enid album is Salome, definitely not prog though ;)

Hi Dave

I was once a 'Friend of the Enid' and Robert John likened themselves to classical musicians using modern instruments and they wanted to create a patronage system, whereby FOTEs sponsored the band. I didn't like the Enid's music enough then to do this, so I stepped away and stopped being an FOTE. The Enid don't think of themselves as being Prog (well they certainly didn't back then early to mid 80s) but there are certainly some aspects of their music which do resemble Prog, but equally so do Sky's albums and the Variations album by Julian Lloyd Webber.


Regards Neil

synsei
29-07-2014, 20:16
Hi Dave

I was once a 'Friend of the Enid' and Robert John likened themselves to classical musicians using modern instruments and they wanted to create a patronage system, whereby FOTEs sponsored the band. I didn't like the Enid's music enough then to do this, so I stepped away and stopped being an FOTE. The Enid don't think of themselves as being Prog (well they certainly didn't back then early to mid 80s) but there are certainly some aspects of their music which do resemble Prog, but equally so do Sky's albums and the Variations album by Julian Lloyd Webber.


Regards Neil

I didn't know about the FOTE system at the time Neil otherwise I may well have signed up. I first heard Salome at a friends house and was instantly struck by how well structured and 'different' their sound was and the quality of the musicianship, it really appealed to me. I own both Salome and Something Wicked on CD (the former is incredibly hard to get hold of) and that's it. I should rectify that :)

Spectral Morn
29-07-2014, 20:32
I didn't know about the FOTE system at the time Neil otherwise I may well have signed up. I first heard Salome at a friends house and was instantly struck by how well structured and 'different' their sound was and the quality of the musicianship, it really appealed to me. I own both Salome and Something Wicked on CD (the former is incredibly hard to get hold of) and that's it. I should rectify that :)

I liked some of their music, more the early albums in the 70s but I didn't love their music. I think its a youth thing, I was more into melodic American rock and preferred the more Pomp Prog bands, there was something whimsical and ethereal about The Enid, I guess they are more the lighter very, very English side of classical rock music and that didn't sit well with me back then. I need to re-evaluate them, I have Something Wicked and I might have Salome on vinyl, not sure.

http://www.theenid.co.uk/news.html

They were doing a lot of their own music (no record label) via CD and before that tape, and being a FOTE mean't one got access to FOTE only material and gigs.


Regards Neil

PaulStewart
29-07-2014, 22:14
Hmmm... I've heard mention before that 'Sergeant Pepper' was the first ever prog album :scratch:

Of course I doubt we should forget Renaissance and Annie Haslam's crew. It has all of the pomp and fairytale of a classic prog sound with loads of complex time signatures and of course that classic, the Rickenbacker bass.

Well Sgt Pepper 'cos it was one of the first albums I ever bought as a nipper and to my mind it was Prog though we didn't call it that yet.

Renaissance I liked 'cos A) They were a cracking band and B) John Tout the pianist's sister Sue used to come round and clean for my mum and she was ony 18 months older than me and I had the hots for her :eyebrows: Strange thing was that after she had finished work, she wold play our baby grand piano for an hour or so. She had all her grades plus a diploma and had been to a proper piano teacher, yet she didn't play professionally, though she would have liked to. Her brother John, the rock star, had just been taught by the woman in the sweet shop on the corner in Gospel Oak where they lived :lol:

I should probably say Lifesigns new album err Lifesigns :) 'cos it's a great album and they are all mates of mine. Got the just out double 12" vinyl last week and it's great. :)

But I'm going to be boring and say ITCOTCK is in fact the greatest prog album ever :laugh:

mr sneff
04-08-2014, 20:39
The latest edition of Prog Magazine runs a feature entitled The 100 Greatest Prog Albums of All Time.
Don't know what No.1 is but apparently (http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=4755) ITCOTCK came 2nd.
Re. Sgt Pepper; I seem to recall reading somewhere that hearing "A Day in the Life" had a big influence on Robert Fripp.

struth
04-08-2014, 21:02
I'll go for Family Entertainment.....fantastic album from a truly great band.