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speakers-1989
15-07-2009, 22:29
What other cartridges go very well with the Rega R200 tonearm?

hifi_dave
15-07-2009, 22:42
Other Than ???????

Budget is ???

Amp is ???

speakers-1989
15-07-2009, 22:47
Amp is a Quad 405/44 pre.

Budget, 300-400. I'm using a DL160, but fancy something thats a bit brighter.

MartinT
17-07-2009, 13:15
Hmm, the DL-160 is hardly dull. You'll probably need to look at the Audio Technica range if you want to keep to high output. How about the AT440ML?

However, firstly I'd investigate why your system sounds less than bright. The Quad combo would be receiving my attention first.

DSJR
18-07-2009, 11:39
The 44 preamp could sound a little "safe" at times and the 66 which replaced it answered that, although it doesn't "drive" in terms of rhythm unless it's there in the recording (I think it's called "neutrality" or something :)).

The 405-2's are fine and I wouldn't touch them, unless the speakers need more control than a bridged amp can offer of course...

There are people who can fettle the 44's cards with more up-to-date op-amps and I understand the sound is improved well by this.

Another point is the R200 itself. Jonny at Audio Origami quoted me 60 or so to replace the external wires on mine (the existing internal ones are fully intact). I think I can do this myself with HiFi Dave's help (my fine soldering skills have long disappeared), but although I argued with Tony L on PFM when he criticised the lateral bearing slop, the fact remains that although the bearings are good quality, there remains a little play even on my Planar 3 derived sample (the Planar 3 R200's had selected arms). When funds permit, I may just bite the bullet and send the arm back for an internal re-wire as well as a bearing fettle (you need special pronged screwdrivers to undo the locking screws internally and I have no wish to knacker them).

Shane, why not try an AT-440MLa. They're not expensive and the crisper, gentler balance may just suit your system better.

By the way, what headshell is the 160 in? if it's the Rega shell, a more rigid Magnesium style one may offer some further improvement...

RobHolt
19-07-2009, 00:19
Amp is a Quad 405/44 pre.

Budget, 300-400. I'm using a DL160, but fancy something thats a bit brighter.

ATOC9ML

Within budget and brighter.

speakers-1989
20-07-2009, 15:59
ATOC9ML

Within budget and brighter.


I'm not keen on that particular Audio Technica cartridge. It Sounds to flat for my liking, although it's brightness might suite my system.

speakers-1989
20-07-2009, 16:02
The 44 preamp could sound a little "safe" at times and the 66 which replaced it answered that, although it doesn't "drive" in terms of rhythm unless it's there in the recording (I think it's called "neutrality" or something :)).

The 405-2's are fine and I wouldn't touch them, unless the speakers need more control than a bridged amp can offer of course...

There are people who can fettle the 44's cards with more up-to-date op-amps and I understand the sound is improved well by this.

Another point is the R200 itself. Jonny at Audio Origami quoted me 60 or so to replace the external wires on mine (the existing internal ones are fully intact). I think I can do this myself with HiFi Dave's help (my fine soldering skills have long disappeared), but although I argued with Tony L on PFM when he criticised the lateral bearing slop, the fact remains that although the bearings are good quality, there remains a little play even on my Planar 3 derived sample (the Planar 3 R200's had selected arms). When funds permit, I may just bite the bullet and send the arm back for an internal re-wire as well as a bearing fettle (you need special pronged screwdrivers to undo the locking screws internally and I have no wish to knacker them).

Shane, why not try an AT-440MLa. They're not expensive and the crisper, gentler balance may just suit your system better.

By the way, what headshell is the 160 in? if it's the Rega shell, a more rigid Magnesium style one may offer some further improvement...



It's funny you mention the AT-440MLa, as i've been looking at them for a bit. But i've also been looking at the Roksan's new Cours Black cartridge too. I'm tempted to go for it. What HiFi gave it 5 stars:eyebrows:

But yes I will keep this AT cart in mind.

speakers-1989
20-07-2009, 16:14
I've been playing all my LPs on a pair of AKG K701 headphones for the last 2 weeks, with a Musical Fed X-Can V2 headphone amp. The headphone amp is hooked up with my Quad 44 pre, and I must say this combo is just out of this world. The Quad 44 and Musical Fed goes very well together.

The Bightness is just the way I like it, the speed and dynamics is prompt and the midrange is very nice. In other words I will describe the sound as ''addictive''.

Lots of you may disagree with me. But I like this kind of sound.

Soon, I might change my speakers. I think the Quad 405 needs a bright sounding speaker, maybe a Tannoy???

DSJR
20-07-2009, 17:20
I've PM'd you with a huge thumbs up for Tannoys :)

The OC9 doesn't sound flat in a bland way - anything but - but does tend to show up records that have been tinkered with when they were cut... The 440MLa will definitely have some character by comparison qand the 150ML may well be the better bet.

Bearing in mind you like the reproduced sound over headphones, I'd find some Eatons as you suggested tome, as they haven't been "discovered" yet and prices are still reasonable. Wait until Devons run out now that Cheviots are climbing in price.....

I also think the T165's may be worth looking out for as long as the stands are well chosen.

speakers-1989
20-07-2009, 17:37
I have 2 cartridges in mind, the 440MLa or the Roksan Cours Black cartridge. Must make my decision soon.

DSJR
20-07-2009, 18:26
Corus Black is a goldring by another name with extra Roksan "slurp" added toenhance the cachet and retail price.

get the AT.......

speakers-1989
21-07-2009, 19:41
All day i've been reading about the Denon DL-103, and I see lots, lots and LOTS of people liking them. The price looks very good on HiFix.

So, it's a low output MC cart, if I was to buy it, I will have to get a moving coil board for my Quad 44. As it's using a Moving Magnet board. The phono stage in the Quad 44 sounds bloody fine. Good for the money.

Don't worry DSJR, I'm still keeping the AT cart in mind:)

speakers-1989
21-07-2009, 22:36
How much does a Quad 44 Moving Coil Board sell for?

speakers-1989
24-07-2009, 13:46
The tip of the stylus on my Denon is gone, so i'm now in a need for a new cartridge.
I want to get a Moving Magnet cartridge, I am looking at the Audio Technica AT-440MLA, maybe this is my best bet. Or maybe just get an old Shure that is in good condition as long as it sounds nice and happy.

It's true, what's the point spending over 200 on a cartridge to go on a old R200.

DSJR
24-07-2009, 14:37
So many questions Shane ;)

The 103 has a fairly high output for an MC as I understand it, so low gain SUT's like the Partridge ones for sale on ebay may just make a good cheap step-up for you, whilst keeping the Quad mm module. Quads MC modules were ok (better I understand with modern, uprated op-amps) and if you can find one, then try it if the price is right.

Bearing in mind the 103's output, you may get away with setting the MM module to maximum sensitivity (1mV) with no added capacitance (as MC's don't need it). At least, if you do use a highish gain SUT, the Quad can be reduced in sensitivity on the phono stage to match it.

Regarding the R200, I asked the same thing of Jonny at Audio Origami and he feels that as the arm is in good physical nick, it's worth it. As yours is in a golden finish, I'd use it. The only cause for adjustment is the lateral bearings, which usually have some chatter in them - the Planar 2 ones were worse). They can be adjusted and Jonny does a mean job in re-wiring them with modern, decent wires too. Only lack of funds prevent me sending mine up there to be done. Apart from the lack od adjustment, I suspect the R200 can be fettled into a good, serious tonearm able to compete with the better detachable models (and probably bettering the SME's too).

speakers-1989
24-07-2009, 14:51
I have come to my decision, either a Ortofon 2M Bronze or the Audio Technica AT-440mla.

The 440mla got a very good review.
http://www.at440mla.co.uk/

speakers-1989
24-07-2009, 14:54
I've also had people telling me I should try a separate phono-stage.

speakers-1989
24-07-2009, 20:55
I think i'll go for the Audio Technica AT-440mla, tomorrow i'll buy it. This cart is worth a try after reading so many rave good reviews about it.

DSJR
24-07-2009, 21:04
Let me say this again - Quad get maligned by subjectivists because they have very little "character" in the sound. They also tried techniques in the later years without always seeing what else was around to compare them with - standard 405's can cook if thrashed, so they put in loads of current limiting which meant they didn't like the 4 Ohm speakers then available. they chose "adequate" IC based op-amps throughout the 44 which have now been bettered, thirty years on and these can be replaced by a comptetent solderer.

Shane, if you have the 44 up-dated, you may not need a different preamp. If you were to change, I'd look for a 77 pre if a Quad, as it has a natural and sweet (if anything) presentation with loads of atmosphere.

Ideally, I'd love for you to try a Croft preamp - I believe he has a line only version coming and you could add a Cambridge 640p phono stage to it to start with. A medium period Croft like a Vitale may be the best option though, although I don't know how well the more recent pre's like driving long interconnects to get the amps near to the speakers..

I've read the Ortofon bronze is reminiscant of the M20FL, which was a high point in their MM cartridge range over the decades I remember (lower compliance and a more solid sound as I recall).

Magna Audio
24-07-2009, 21:23
Probably too late...
I've heard many say the 103 and the RB arm is not a match made in heaven.
I heard one RB250 or was it a 200? that did work but that was modified with a SS bolt down the arm shaft and tensioned up to within an inch of the arms life.

I would suggest the AT 33PTG. Get it from Audiocubes II - reliable, pay the tax like a good citizen and enjoy. Takes 2 weeks to arrive.
I used it first on my all O.L tweaks modded RB250 and then on my air arm and PL-71 / arm. Very good

33PTG was prefered over the OC9 at the York bake off and I think it equalled or beat a lot of much more expensive carts sound wise.
You will need a phonostage capable of low impedance matching. I am using 100ohms right now.

Brilliant cart that is finding many converts and friends and within your budget.
0.5mV output.

speakers-1989
24-07-2009, 21:35
Probably too late...
I've heard many say the 103 and the RB arm is not a match made in heaven.
I heard one RB250 or was it a 200? that did work but that was modified with a SS bolt down the arm shaft and tensioned up to within an inch of the arms life.

I would suggest the AT 33PTG. Get it from Audiocubes II - reliable, pay the tax like a good citizen and enjoy. Takes 2 weeks to arrive.
I used it first on my all O.L tweaks modded RB250 and then on my air arm and PL-71 / arm. Very good

33PTG was prefered over the OC9 at the York bake off and I think it equalled or beat a lot of much more expensive carts sound wise.
You will need a phonostage capable of low impedance matching. I am using 100ohms right now.

Brilliant cart that is finding many converts and friends and within your budget.
0.5mV output.

Thanks ever so much for your reply, but I think i'll just settle down for a AT-440mla for now:)

Cheers;)

speakers-1989
24-07-2009, 21:42
Let me say this again - Quad get maligned by subjectivists because they have very little "character" in the sound. They also tried techniques in the later years without always seeing what else was around to compare them with - standard 405's can cook if thrashed, so they put in loads of current limiting which meant they didn't like the 4 Ohm speakers then available. they chose "adequate" IC based op-amps throughout the 44 which have now been bettered, thirty years on and these can be replaced by a comptetent solderer.

Shane, if you have the 44 up-dated, you may not need a different preamp. If you were to change, I'd look for a 77 pre if a Quad, as it has a natural and sweet (if anything) presentation with loads of atmosphere.

Ideally, I'd love for you to try a Croft preamp - I believe he has a line only version coming and you could add a Cambridge 640p phono stage to it to start with. A medium period Croft like a Vitale may be the best option though, although I don't know how well the more recent pre's like driving long interconnects to get the amps near to the speakers..

I've read the Ortofon bronze is reminiscant of the M20FL, which was a high point in their MM cartridge range over the decades I remember (lower compliance and a more solid sound as I recall).


I like my Quad 405s very much, they can sound a little to warm at times, no harm really.

speakers-1989
24-07-2009, 21:48
If I didn't go for the Quad 405, I would have bought a later Quad amp. Or on the other hand a Valve amp, something like a papworth intergrated, Tim use to have one and sounded very NICE!! But at the time Tim was using shit cables, but untill he bought some ecosse interconnects the sound started to get much better.

Sometimes I wish he kept that nice little amp. When you turn it on, the volume weel goes down.

speakers-1989
24-07-2009, 22:47
Quads 405 RULE!!! OK, OK i'll calm down now.

Anway, I just bought the Audio Technica AT-400mla. Hope I like it.

speakers-1989
01-08-2009, 13:58
My AT-440mla has almost run in and it's really starting to shine. I put on a Daft Punk Mix record, and my jaw just opened and hit the floor with amazement with what this cartridge can do. The speed and detail is just bloody great, to be really honest I think I'm Re-discovering all my vinyl's with this cartridge.


Cheers.

DSJR
01-08-2009, 16:00
Probably too late...
I've heard many say the 103 and the RB arm is not a match made in heaven.
I heard one RB250 or was it a 200? that did work but that was modified with a SS bolt down the arm shaft and tensioned up to within an inch of the arms life.



Wasn't that the mod done by Avondale? Apparently, this mod completely cured the single frequency "ring" the RB300 suffers from..