Mismatch - how to solve low cart output into amp phono stage - Help :)

[Dunluce978]

I have a Benz Micro Ace Med output (0.8mV) fed into a recently purchased Copland CSA 28 integrated amp on the phono input. I feel that the amp is not getting the drive it needs to produce the best sound. I have a Project tube box with MM and MC stage which is also not a great match either, MM too low and MC distorted, so really want to ask what would be a good solution without breaking the bank.

Other thoughts are - Change the cart for a high output type!

I like the Copland so don't really see me wanting to change it anytime soon.

[jaym481]

Find a suitable SUT? Other than getting a phono stage with adjustable gain settings, like maybe the upper end Tube Box, a SUT is really your only choice if you want to use the Copland's phono input.

[CageyH]

Have you adjusted the cartridge loading?

[Dunluce978]

On the Copland there is no cart loading adjustment as far as I can see.

On the Tube Box II (older model) there is no adjustment either, just MM MC selector and rumble filter.

[Ammonite Audio]

I would definitely try a Step Up Transformer, maybe something like this one http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/moving_coil_step-up_transforme.html

I have a Benz Wood SL which is electrically similar and works really well into an Audio Note SUT, but the Rothwell is quite well regarded and keenly priced. If the phono stage in the Copland amp is essentially good, then the SUT should work well.

[Dunluce978]

My other thoughts are to buy a good HO MM cart and sell the Benz and Tube box. Something like a Nagoaka Mp500 maybe which can be had for a good price direct from Japan. My current set up is the Gyro SE with SME 309 + Benz Ace so if changing carts I'll have to research suitable MM models.

I forgot to mention that this whole saga started because I was about to get out of vinyl completely and go totally digital but my other half who doesn't take a lot of interest in hi fi suddenly said "Don't sell that record deck (the Gyro) it's too beautiful to get rid of"

Next suggestion about 5 mins later was "Get some nice stand mount speakers, I never liked the look of those big ones". I had not made a change in the system for about 10 years but couldn't resist…so six months later and I'm enjoying the Harbeth P3ESR's immensely :) and a new (to me) amp :)

[Kember]

I would definitely try a Step Up Transformer, maybe something like this one http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/moving_coil_step-up_transforme.html

I have a Benz Wood SL which is electrically similar and works really well into an Audio Note SUT, but the Rothwell is quite well regarded and keenly priced. If the phono stage in the Copland amp is essentially good, then the SUT should work well.

To state the obvious, you may recall that Reffc of this parish makes a rather sweet one - I have one and it ain't going nowhere - and I think he could match precisely to your cartridge.

P

[Barry]

I would definitely try a Step Up Transformer, maybe something like this one http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/moving_coil_step-up_transforme.html

I have a Benz Wood SL which is electrically similar and works really well into an Audio Note SUT, but the Rothwell is quite well regarded and keenly priced. If the phono stage in the Copland amp is essentially good, then the SUT should work well.

The Rothwell SUT appears to be designed for cartridges having an output in the range 0.3 - 0.7mV. It has a voltage step up ratio of 1:12.9, so the output of the Benz will be increased to 0.8 x 12.9 = 10.3mV, which is high compared to the sensitivity of a typical phono input.

Depending on the sensitivity of the Copland amp and its overload headroom, it might be better to chose an SUT having a lower step-up ratio: say between 1:5 and 1:10.

[Ammonite Audio]

The Rothwell SUT appears to be designed for cartridges having an output in the range 0.3 - 0.7mV. It has a voltage ste- up ratio of 1:12.9, so the output of the Benz will be increased to 0.8 x 12.9 = 10.3mV, which is high compared to the sensitivity of a typical phono input.

Depending on the sensitivity of the Copland amp and its overload headroom, it might be better to chose an SUT having a lower step-up ratio: say between 1:5 and 1:10.

Ah! I failed to notice that the Benz was the medium output model!


To state the obvious, you may recall that Reffc of this parish makes a rather sweet one - I have one and it ain't going nowhere - and I think he could match precisely to your cartridge.

Quite so, but the Rothwell is rather keenly priced in comparison.

[Dunluce978]

Thanks for the replies so far, food for thought.

Will have to think this one over for a while as SUT's are at a price point where I have to decide what's my future goal for analogue. I've never tried a HO MM cart before so that's a possibility, but as I have not heard any it's a gamble as the Benz is a nice cart to my ears and would need to be improved upon before I change it.

Another solution might be something like the firebottle phono adjusted to give the best from the Benz Ace and later a choice of a LO MC if I change carts.

[trio leo]

Hi Al,
I'm not sure of the price of the SUT's mentioned so far, I have superb results from the head amp I use, it just doesn't add or take away anything and allows the cartridge to do it's job. ( look in system list)

enjoy your music :)

regards Al