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Mike
15-07-2009, 21:54
Can anyone help with info on this cartridge please?

I've just sorted a deal on one but I'm having little success in unearthing any technical information on this particular beast.

Any help with facts & figures for tracking force, loading etc. would be much appreciated. :)

Cheers...

hifi_dave
15-07-2009, 23:24
I briefly tried one back in the late 80's and it was pretty good but outclassed by certain other (cheaper) carts of the time. IMO.

It was the top of the range from AT and featured a diamond clad Boron cantilever with a funky fine-line stylus and PCOCC wiring. At the right price it would be a good buy.

Mike
15-07-2009, 23:26
At the right price it would be a good buy.

How about a straight swap for a hardly used AT33-PTG?

Ritch
16-07-2009, 07:40
Here you go: Audio Technica ART-1 / ouput voltage = 0.35mV / stylus pressure 1.4g to 1.8g with 1.6g recommended / frequency range 10Hz to 50KHz / channel separation at 1KHz = 30dB / coil impedence = 12ohms / recommended load using amplifier = min 100ohms / recommended load using transformer = above 20ohms / weight = 8.5g / diamond clad boron cantilever

Mike
16-07-2009, 08:22
Great!... thanks for that Ritch. :)

hifi_dave
16-07-2009, 08:50
How about a straight swap for a hardly used AT33-PTG?

If it's in good nick I would say, based on my short time with it, that it's a no-brainer. :cool:

Marco
16-07-2009, 09:14
Hope it works out for you, Mikey :)


I briefly tried one back in the late 80's and it was pretty good but outclassed by certain other (cheaper) carts of the time. IMO.


Dave, would that be the same as people once claimed that the M3D was "outclassed" by other 'better' carts of the time, but as DSJR found out, was rather an ill-informed misconception? ;)

I could be wrong about the ART1, as I haven't heard it, but experience suggests that some of the MC cartridges produced in the late 80s from Japanese manufacturers, not just Audio Technica, were extremely good and better than a lot of what's being made today.

Fingers crossed for Mikey that this is the case... The only concern I have is with regard to stylus replacement. Are AT still making styli for the ART1 or are retips the only option?

Marco.

Beobloke
16-07-2009, 11:57
Can anyone help with info on this cartridge please?

I've just sorted a deal on one but I'm having little success in unearthing any technical information on this particular beast.

Any help with facts & figures for tracking force, loading etc. would be much appreciated. :)

Cheers...

Aha, you did strike the deal then, despite my infernal meddling - well done!

I sincerely hope you enjoy it, but if you don't, do drop me a line........;)

Mike
16-07-2009, 14:14
Hi Adam,

Yup, t'is on it's way. If things don't work out I'll be sure to drop you a line. :)

Cheers...

NRG
17-07-2009, 06:43
Mike, bookmark this page right now! http://www.cartridgedb.com/ :lolsign:

Mike
17-07-2009, 07:46
Mike, bookmark this page right now! http://www.cartridgedb.com/ :lolsign:

Done! :)

MartinT
17-07-2009, 13:11
What a fab database!

Mike
17-07-2009, 17:10
Well I think the ART1 has arrived, there was a card from the post office through the door, but I was in bed! The last 24hrs have been a nightmare.

I was on on-call on Thursday and got a call at 6pm (I hadn't even made it home) - got to bed at 11:30 this morning! http://www.hifiwigwam.com/images/emoticons/confused.gif Feeling a bit like I've been through a meat grinder at the moment, it's just gone 6pm and I've been up for about 15mins. I'm utterly bolloxed.

hifi_dave
17-07-2009, 18:33
That's all very well but you should have collected the ART-1 by now. You need to get your priorities sorted - hi-fi then sleep.:doh:

Mike
17-07-2009, 18:36
Err... I'll get my coat. :door:

NRG
17-07-2009, 18:57
I know how that feels Mike, I used to work a shift pattern that included nights so I changed to what I thought would be a more sociable job...but I had to be on call...it was a killer!

DSJR
17-07-2009, 19:58
Marco, as you summise, the "problems" with late eighties cartridges were often due to reviewer bias and the turntable systems most often used (in the UK at any rate...).

The Art 1 acquired its notoriety in the UK by a certain Chris Frankland as I recall, as the only other cartridge that could be discussed in the same breath as Glasgow's (Supex made) finest... Unless I'm mistaken, we were using Dynavector XX1's in ARO's and getting a pretty good sound from them at the time.

Again, IIRC, when we fell foul of the Linn dealer purge of the early nineties, we started selling Koetsu's and Dynavectors instead of Troika's etc..

One other problem, especially if you re-wind further to the late seventies, most of these far eastern moving coils were quite young in the learning curve (Ortofon were re-packaging old designs in new bodies to start with as I remember) and their performance was a bit "lumpy" to say the least. The old AT33 had great top but soft bass, although I suspect the PTG would be a far better animal due to newer design thinking and a better tip.

Talking of tips, the profile on many of the fancy ones treads a very fine line (ouch! sorry ;)). many of the early Shibata's weren't quite as wonderful as they were cracked up to be and I've already learned recently that some pressings DEFINITELY prefer a conical or "pseudo-eliptical" type. Some early fine-line/Shibata types suffer terrible surface noise which no amount of tweaking can fully cure. I think that the current versions of these - the excellent ML and Shibata 3 types may have got this sorted by now.

Final comment - Interesting that the OC9 and relatives can sound awsome on a good turntable (truthful and pretty accurate rather than warm and romantic), yet it's the well loved Koetsu's and their Supex ancestors which sound as dull as ditchwater, even in a modern turntable system...

Marco
18-07-2009, 13:48
Good post, Dave. Trouble is, what exactly does "warm and romantic" really mean?

I often think these days that it's anything which doesn't quite fit the 'modern sound' of fast, bright, forward, or "crisp", with 'superb clarity' (as I described elsewhere), that is currently commercial and 'fashionable', rather than it being intrinsically "warm and romantic".

For example, would you describe the M3D (properly set-up and partnered) or Croft amplifiers as "warm and romantic", or just simply 'natural' sounding and 'unforced'? For me it's most definitely the latter.

I wouldn't describe the DL-103SA as "warm and romantic" either, or my TD valve amp or Tannoys...

Some old equipment does *genuinely* fit that description, but these days I think that there's a tendency to apply such terms to vintage gear when it really isn't deserved, simply through a lack of proper experience.

Marco.

P.S Mikey, hope things look up soon - hopefully when the stylus of your ART1 hits the grooves! :gig:

Mike
18-07-2009, 18:03
P.S Mikey, hope things look up soon - hopefully when the stylus of your ART1 hits the grooves! :gig:

Well it's arrived, I picked it up from the post office this morning on the way out to another 'call'. Just having a flying visit to refill the old flask then I'm off again. It'll be an 8am to midnight day today. Tomorrow will be a 5:30am start right through till midnight again! No rest for the wicked, eh?

I won't be moaning about when payday come though.... :eyebrows:

Laterz...

DSJR
18-07-2009, 21:22
Good post, Dave. Trouble is, what exactly does "warm and romantic" really mean?

I often think these days that it's anything which doesn't quite fit the 'modern sound' of fast, bright, forward, or "crisp", with 'superb clarity' (as I described elsewhere), that is currently commercial and 'fashionable', rather than it being intrinsically "warm and romantic".

For example, would you describe the M3D (properly set-up and partnered) or Croft amplifiers as "warm and romantic", or just simply 'natural' sounding and 'unforced'? For me it's most definitely the latter.

I wouldn't describe the DL-103SA as "warm and romantic" either, or my TD valve amp or Tannoys...

Some old equipment does *genuinely* fit that description, but these days I think that there's a tendency to apply such terms to vintage gear when it really isn't deserved, simply through a lack of proper experience.

Marco.

P.S Mikey, hope things look up soon - hopefully when the stylus of your ART1 hits the grooves! :gig:

It's difficult for me to put into words what I hear and have heard, but warm and romantic in a cartridge is sort of a well damped but still woolly sounding bass up/treble down balance, low surface noise and a "soft" presentation. Old koetsu rosewoods and Onyx models did this - totally wrong but utterly "nice" sounding ("nice" being non-descript blandness...). The DL103 is actually quite "flat" in response and end-of-side is only going to drop the extreme top by a couple of db, which would still be better than many better tipped models IMO.

Having heard many amps over the years (and owned a good few), I'd suggest the Quad II's as a "classic" warm-n-valvey sound. My Croft in current trim ain't like that at all - a bit bright toned if anything, but I love it to bits.. You're welcome to disagree, but the bridged Crown D 60's surprise me still by reproducing quite clearly all the differences I've made further back and the good measured spec they've always had must indicate they're doing something right into the easy load they're driving.

The M3D as I remember it was a big-n-bold sound and the huge cantilever didn't bode too well for good high frequency tracking or low record wear, but the N21 stylus I have is rather finer (I don't know if the Shure original is similar) and the lower treble suckout that characterises many mm style pickups doesn't seem such a problem in this system. Bearing in mind that most LP's are/were cut with some upper-mid and treble lift to liven the sound up, the rather "stripped" balance of a typical AT OC9 or similar (or Dynavector 17D series) is probably just reproducing what's actually there on the record - the Decca's do it too, but even better - what a well sorted Decca can do for good music is something else :)

Mike
19-07-2009, 19:14
Time to ring EsCo!...

It needs a re-tip. There's that unmistakable 'edgy buzz' most noticeable on vocals and piano. Some of it is probably set-up, which is a bit rough and ready at the moment, but the tell tale signs are there.

It's not too far gone though and I can tell that I'm going to like this cartridge. Looking at the little trace thing that's in the box there's much less of a treble lift than the other AT cartridges I've had (which isn't many TBH), just a touch of it right at the very top. Bass sounds very clean and detailed too, I'm going to enjoy this once it's sorted. :)

Marco
19-07-2009, 19:47
Mmm...... Did the guy who sold it to you Mikey tell you that it had this problem?

Also, which aspects of the set-up aren't ideal at the moment and how are you differentiating between this and a problem with the stylus?

Jeez, you never seem to be lucky and buy things which are sorted and ready to play music - there's always a faff involved!! :confused:

Marco.

Mike
19-07-2009, 19:57
Jeez, you never seem to be lucky and buy things which are sorted and ready to play music - there's always a faff involved!! :confused:

That's part of the fun! :)

I don't go in for this 'plug 'n play' nonsense, that's for pussies! :lol:

Yes, I was aware it may need a re-tip and also had the option to swap back if I wanted. But I don't want! All the money from this overtime I've done over the last few days has to spent on something after all! :eyebrows:

NRG
19-07-2009, 20:20
Mike if it needs a retip then you best get it to ESco pronto 'cause you wont see it again until October!

:lolsign:

Mike
19-07-2009, 20:28
Yeah, I've heard they're pretty busy these days, might have to look at a stand-in while it's on holiday. ;)

EsCo where pretty quick last time I used them though, only about 10 days! :confused:

DSJR
19-07-2009, 21:16
Stupid question to such knowledgeable guys like yourselves, but have you checked the stylus is *really* clean?

Forget those suspension wearing ultra vibrating thingies and either get some of the "green stuff" or the AT609 fluid/brush. My OC9 was traded in for sounding awful (it did), yet a good clean has transformed it, if only staving off the inevitable re-tip at some point fairly soon (I've a diamond-less OC30 I want to do first...).

Mike
19-07-2009, 21:47
Good point, Dave, I'll recheck it.

I really should get my hands on a jewellers loupe or something.

hifi_dave
20-07-2009, 13:47
I'll second what DSJR said about cleaning. Give it a bl**dy good scrub and try again.

I had a cartridge once which the customer brought back as part of the whole system. He was ranting and raving about having his money back. The fault was no sound from the left channel and, sure enough, there was nothing at all. In desperation, after checking everything I could think of, I dragged out the stylus cleaner and attacked the stylus. Bingo - the offending channel worked. It was just some gunk on the stylus.:doh:

You never know, it might be some clag which is making the AT sound naff.

oldius
25-06-2017, 07:15
Old thread but undoubtedly the best cartridge I have either owned or heard.

YNWaN
25-06-2017, 07:58
I'll second what DSJR said about cleaning. Give it a bl**dy good scrub and try again.

I had a cartridge once which the customer brought back as part of the whole system. He was ranting and raving about having his money back. The fault was no sound from the left channel and, sure enough, there was nothing at all. In desperation, after checking everything I could think of, I dragged out the stylus cleaner and attacked the stylus. Bingo - the offending channel worked. It was just some gunk on the stylus.:doh:

You never know, it might be some clag which is making the AT sound naff.

That doesn't make any sense; there just isn't any mechanism whereby dirt on the stylus can take out just one channel. After all, both channels are read simultaneously by the one probe - the stylus.

oldius
25-06-2017, 15:04
I too, with a different cartridge, experienced the loss of one channel due to debris on the tip. Cleaning brought immediate improvements but it did take an effort as the debris seemed welded on.