pete_mac
20-06-2014, 03:35
Hi all,
I've been a bit quiet on here over the past year or so, mainly due to work pressures and also building a new house.
Thankfully, we moved in two months ago and I have a dedicated room to set up my gear.
I've recently favoured British speakers - a pair of trusty JPW Ruby 2s, and currently a pair of PMC GB1is.
The new room is 3.5m x 5.4m x 2.6m and during construction we added some 'upgraded' Bradford SoundCheck acoustic wall insulation. It has helped a bit regarding noise transmission between rooms, but I think I'd need to have gone a bit more hardcore with green glue and double plasterboard and other such things to net a big improvement. I'm happy nonetheless, especially given that the room abuts a large toyroom/spare bedroom and an ensuite/WIR, so this provides additional separation.
The door is a 1.2m wide solid core timber door with glass inserts to match our front door. It is nice and heavy and performs much better than the average hollow-core internal door, that's for sure! I will muck around with a discrete seal on the bottom of the door, or will utilise a draught excluder/snake to improve noise transmission under the door.
The room was initially very 'live' in its current configuration due to the current lack of soft furnishings and wall treatments. There was also a lack of bass at the listening position. I initially experimented with the placement of some acoustic foam and other noise-absorbing panels on the side and rear walls, as well as tweaking the speaker toe-in and the listening chair position. The sound quality was better than when I started, but still left much to be desired. I tackled this a bit later in this post.
A lounge will also be added to the room in future when it transitioned into combined audio/home theatre room, so this will no doubt help acoustically if done properly. This will be some time away, as funds will be channelled into landscaping (of the outdoor kind, not the listening room kind!) in the immediate future.
Upon moving into the new house, the gear consisted of:
Squeezebox Touch with EDO applet
audio-gd NFB3(2014) with ES9018 chip, TCXO upgrade and OCC wire upgrade via asynchronous USB to SB Touch
Restored Sansui AU-X701, AU-7700 and AU-719 (rotated every now and then)
Technics SL1600 with Denon DL-110 HOMC cart
JPW Ruby 2 and Usher S520 speakers
Atacama 700mm speaker stands (spiked and sand-filled)
Custom EBQTRCD (Expectation Bias Quantum Tunnelling Resonance Control Devices) on top of the speakers - the ingredients being a 3.3kg slab of steel on squishy goo on dodgy MDF plinths
Audio Principe signal-carrying cables, and left-over Tara Labs speaker cable for the time being
As you can see, Sansui gear continues (and always will continue) to form the backbone of the system amplification-wise. I'm somewhat of a Sansui tragic!
I am very much looking forward to pulling a bunch of Sansui stuff out of storage at our (being me and my father) Sansui Museum (TU-719, SC-3110, SE-7) to create a nice Sansui stack, as well as rotating some of Dad's other nice Sansui amps/receivers through the system when time permits (AU-999, AU-D11, Eight, 881, AU-919, BA/CA-F1 etc).
Here is the setup when we moved in:
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom9_zps01c2b151.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom1_zps87cec2b3.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom2_zps128115ba.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom3_zps20808629.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom4_zps3d1005ec.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom5_zpsac19cefa.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom7_zpsef3a543c.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/NFB320146_zps3fd8909b.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom6_zps7e61795e.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom8_zpse2fac6a5.jpg
I soon realised that my 'old faithful' Atacama SE28 stands were a bit too high for my current low-slung listening position. The stands are 70cm tall and the JPW speakers are quite tall themselves, placing the tweeter too high.
I happened upon some clean Soundstyle Z2 stands, along with an Apollo Mezzo Soprano four shelf rack in crinkle black with smoked glass shelves. The stands desperately need to be sand or lead-filled soon. My Atacamas are much more intert.
This new rack has simplified the look of my system and puts the gear front-and-centre for maximum perve factor, rather than being couped-up inside the old child-proof cabinet. Here's hoping that my boys keep their end of the bargain and keep their hands away! I think I will make up some kind of lined fabric cover to keep the gear 'out of sight, out of mind' when I'm not using it.
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/may20142_zps5b751284.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/may20142_zps5b751284.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/may20143_zpsb0d64361.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/may20143_zpsb0d64361.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/may20141_zps63705f0d.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/may20141_zps63705f0d.jpg.html)
As much a I love my JPW Ruby 2s (and Usher S520s) I wanted to try something else. A bunch of members on a local Aussie high forum made some fantastic offers to a 'wanted to buy' ad and I was close to acting on one in particular... when I stumbled upon a nice clean pair of PMC GB1i speakers. I figured it couldn't hurt to give them a try, as they ticked the boxes regarding colour, the WAF was high, and I'd never had a pair of PMCs in my system.
These feature the same drivers as the DB1i but have a much larger enclosure. The 'advanced transmission line' has a length of 2.4m in this model vs 1.5m in the smaller DB1i. PMC claim a frequency response of 29hz to 25khz for this model, but they specify no limits/tolerances etc and I think they might be a tad 'generous' with this figure. That said, this speaker does offer 'Usher S520-like' bass in that it doesn't appear to have a midbass hump, It certainly digs deeper than the Ushers though - the bass is trim and taut.
I've been getting the best balance to the sound when placing the speakers about 20cm from the rear wall, and about 40cm from the side walls. This doesn't sound like much, abut after much experimentation regarding speaker positioning, this offers the best sound regarding bass extension and imaging. The room still needed work though1
They are lovely looking speakers, with excellent build quality and a lovely satin finish cherry veneer. Sound-wise, I find them to be relatively neutral with excellent resolving capabilities.
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/pmc2_zpsbd22db25.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/pmc2_zpsbd22db25.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/PMC3_zpsfd3c0268.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/PMC3_zpsfd3c0268.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/pmc4_zps7eb1603e.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/pmc4_zps7eb1603e.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/pmc5_zpse0f9ab0d.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/pmc5_zpse0f9ab0d.jpg.html)
Lastly, whilst I was happy-ish with the PMCs, I felt that the imaging and bass wasn't as good as I had expected. I realised from day dot that this room was pretty average acoustically as there are minimal soft furnishings in the room at present. There's a bit of slap echo, and I feel there is just a but too much reverb and smearing of the sound stage. The bass was a tad wooly at times. The PMCs were clearly being let down by the room. Coupled with my new audio-gd DAC, I wasn't satisfied with the sound, and I was blaming it on the speakers. Yep, the speaker positioning looks less than ideal, but it offered the best sound in this room and it wasn't quite as good as I had hoped.
SOOOOO... with a tight budget in mind, I decided to tackle the room in a simple and cost-effective way. I managed to grab two charcoal/black 2400mm x 1200mm x 50mm sheets of Polymax XHD direct from Martini Industries at Ingleburn, south-western Sydney (15 minutes from where I live).
Martini had two sheets left over from a recent job, and were kind enough to cut each big panel into 3 x 1200mm x 800mm panels on their industrial cutter for ease of transport. All six of the smaller sheets fitted into the back of my Mazda 6 with the seats folded down, meaning I didn't need to stuff around with a trailer or van.
The pricing was dirt-cheap too - it worked out at AUD$20 per 1200mm x 800mm panel! At this price, there's no excuse for NOT grabbing some and seeing what it does to your room. Of course, internationally-available product names and types my vary - this is relevant for Australia only.
I chose the 50mm as the thickness suited my intended use as side and rear wall absorbers, as well as allowing them to be doubled-up to become XHD 100mm if I wanted to experiment with absorbers that performed better at very low frequencies.
http://www.polymaxinsulation.com.au/downloads/Polymax_MDS_Absorb_Data_Sheet.pdf
A big benefit of the Polymax XHD is its stiffness. It will stand perfectly upright against a wall with no sagging. I could quite easily get away without framing these panels, such is the quality of manufacture and cutting. I will, however, do something regarding framing and/or covering some day so that they blend in better with the decor.
Interestingly, the Absorb XHD is manufactured using the 'card and cross-lap' method which Tontine used to use for their Acoustisorb many years ago, before switching to the 'air lay' process which is faster but less consistent and results in varied density throughout the product. One SNAer has encountered issues with the Tontine in a professional environment and only uses the Absorb as a result. Apparently, the published stats for the Tontine product are also based upon the old product from a few years ago (cheeky!) rather than the newer 'air lay' product which doesn't perform quite as well. It's amazing how much background and technical info there is on pro audio forums out there.
I had a bit of a listen with some familiar tracks, and then embarked on some non-scientific panel placement. I basically replaced some of the temporary panels and foam squares which I had placed at the first reflection points on the side wall, and on the rear wall elevated behind the listening chair. These were thin panels and your typical acoustic pyramid foam which did help a bit with slap echo, but little more. I also plonked a panel behind each speaker (this space was previously bare)
Cue the music... and whoaaaa, what do we have here? The improvement in reverb and echo was clear from the get-go. Imaging snapped into place, and subtleties which were previously masked are now clear and distinct. The sound is more coherent. From what I can tell, these panels have struck a pretty good balance between taming the ills of the room, yet allowing it to sound natural and still a tiny bit 'live'. Measurements may tell a different story, of course, but I'm very happy!
This is as good as I KNEW my system could sound. Gone are my concerns about the PMCs not quite living up to expectations, and likewise, that lingering doubt in the back of my mind that the audio-gd ES9018 DAC was too bright and not synergising with my rig. It's not the gear... IT'S YOUR ROOM, STUPID!! ;)
Colour me impressed! If you haven't played with room treatments, you don't know what you're missing out on. INCREDIBLE improvements can be had.
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/polymax3_zps59eda251.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/polymax3_zps59eda251.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/polymax4_zps8efd3867.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/polymax4_zps8efd3867.jpg.html)
I've been a bit quiet on here over the past year or so, mainly due to work pressures and also building a new house.
Thankfully, we moved in two months ago and I have a dedicated room to set up my gear.
I've recently favoured British speakers - a pair of trusty JPW Ruby 2s, and currently a pair of PMC GB1is.
The new room is 3.5m x 5.4m x 2.6m and during construction we added some 'upgraded' Bradford SoundCheck acoustic wall insulation. It has helped a bit regarding noise transmission between rooms, but I think I'd need to have gone a bit more hardcore with green glue and double plasterboard and other such things to net a big improvement. I'm happy nonetheless, especially given that the room abuts a large toyroom/spare bedroom and an ensuite/WIR, so this provides additional separation.
The door is a 1.2m wide solid core timber door with glass inserts to match our front door. It is nice and heavy and performs much better than the average hollow-core internal door, that's for sure! I will muck around with a discrete seal on the bottom of the door, or will utilise a draught excluder/snake to improve noise transmission under the door.
The room was initially very 'live' in its current configuration due to the current lack of soft furnishings and wall treatments. There was also a lack of bass at the listening position. I initially experimented with the placement of some acoustic foam and other noise-absorbing panels on the side and rear walls, as well as tweaking the speaker toe-in and the listening chair position. The sound quality was better than when I started, but still left much to be desired. I tackled this a bit later in this post.
A lounge will also be added to the room in future when it transitioned into combined audio/home theatre room, so this will no doubt help acoustically if done properly. This will be some time away, as funds will be channelled into landscaping (of the outdoor kind, not the listening room kind!) in the immediate future.
Upon moving into the new house, the gear consisted of:
Squeezebox Touch with EDO applet
audio-gd NFB3(2014) with ES9018 chip, TCXO upgrade and OCC wire upgrade via asynchronous USB to SB Touch
Restored Sansui AU-X701, AU-7700 and AU-719 (rotated every now and then)
Technics SL1600 with Denon DL-110 HOMC cart
JPW Ruby 2 and Usher S520 speakers
Atacama 700mm speaker stands (spiked and sand-filled)
Custom EBQTRCD (Expectation Bias Quantum Tunnelling Resonance Control Devices) on top of the speakers - the ingredients being a 3.3kg slab of steel on squishy goo on dodgy MDF plinths
Audio Principe signal-carrying cables, and left-over Tara Labs speaker cable for the time being
As you can see, Sansui gear continues (and always will continue) to form the backbone of the system amplification-wise. I'm somewhat of a Sansui tragic!
I am very much looking forward to pulling a bunch of Sansui stuff out of storage at our (being me and my father) Sansui Museum (TU-719, SC-3110, SE-7) to create a nice Sansui stack, as well as rotating some of Dad's other nice Sansui amps/receivers through the system when time permits (AU-999, AU-D11, Eight, 881, AU-919, BA/CA-F1 etc).
Here is the setup when we moved in:
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom9_zps01c2b151.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom1_zps87cec2b3.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom2_zps128115ba.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom3_zps20808629.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom4_zps3d1005ec.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom5_zpsac19cefa.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom7_zpsef3a543c.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/NFB320146_zps3fd8909b.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom6_zps7e61795e.jpg
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/newroom8_zpse2fac6a5.jpg
I soon realised that my 'old faithful' Atacama SE28 stands were a bit too high for my current low-slung listening position. The stands are 70cm tall and the JPW speakers are quite tall themselves, placing the tweeter too high.
I happened upon some clean Soundstyle Z2 stands, along with an Apollo Mezzo Soprano four shelf rack in crinkle black with smoked glass shelves. The stands desperately need to be sand or lead-filled soon. My Atacamas are much more intert.
This new rack has simplified the look of my system and puts the gear front-and-centre for maximum perve factor, rather than being couped-up inside the old child-proof cabinet. Here's hoping that my boys keep their end of the bargain and keep their hands away! I think I will make up some kind of lined fabric cover to keep the gear 'out of sight, out of mind' when I'm not using it.
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/may20142_zps5b751284.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/may20142_zps5b751284.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/may20143_zpsb0d64361.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/may20143_zpsb0d64361.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/may20141_zps63705f0d.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/may20141_zps63705f0d.jpg.html)
As much a I love my JPW Ruby 2s (and Usher S520s) I wanted to try something else. A bunch of members on a local Aussie high forum made some fantastic offers to a 'wanted to buy' ad and I was close to acting on one in particular... when I stumbled upon a nice clean pair of PMC GB1i speakers. I figured it couldn't hurt to give them a try, as they ticked the boxes regarding colour, the WAF was high, and I'd never had a pair of PMCs in my system.
These feature the same drivers as the DB1i but have a much larger enclosure. The 'advanced transmission line' has a length of 2.4m in this model vs 1.5m in the smaller DB1i. PMC claim a frequency response of 29hz to 25khz for this model, but they specify no limits/tolerances etc and I think they might be a tad 'generous' with this figure. That said, this speaker does offer 'Usher S520-like' bass in that it doesn't appear to have a midbass hump, It certainly digs deeper than the Ushers though - the bass is trim and taut.
I've been getting the best balance to the sound when placing the speakers about 20cm from the rear wall, and about 40cm from the side walls. This doesn't sound like much, abut after much experimentation regarding speaker positioning, this offers the best sound regarding bass extension and imaging. The room still needed work though1
They are lovely looking speakers, with excellent build quality and a lovely satin finish cherry veneer. Sound-wise, I find them to be relatively neutral with excellent resolving capabilities.
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/pmc2_zpsbd22db25.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/pmc2_zpsbd22db25.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/PMC3_zpsfd3c0268.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/PMC3_zpsfd3c0268.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/pmc4_zps7eb1603e.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/pmc4_zps7eb1603e.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/pmc5_zpse0f9ab0d.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/pmc5_zpse0f9ab0d.jpg.html)
Lastly, whilst I was happy-ish with the PMCs, I felt that the imaging and bass wasn't as good as I had expected. I realised from day dot that this room was pretty average acoustically as there are minimal soft furnishings in the room at present. There's a bit of slap echo, and I feel there is just a but too much reverb and smearing of the sound stage. The bass was a tad wooly at times. The PMCs were clearly being let down by the room. Coupled with my new audio-gd DAC, I wasn't satisfied with the sound, and I was blaming it on the speakers. Yep, the speaker positioning looks less than ideal, but it offered the best sound in this room and it wasn't quite as good as I had hoped.
SOOOOO... with a tight budget in mind, I decided to tackle the room in a simple and cost-effective way. I managed to grab two charcoal/black 2400mm x 1200mm x 50mm sheets of Polymax XHD direct from Martini Industries at Ingleburn, south-western Sydney (15 minutes from where I live).
Martini had two sheets left over from a recent job, and were kind enough to cut each big panel into 3 x 1200mm x 800mm panels on their industrial cutter for ease of transport. All six of the smaller sheets fitted into the back of my Mazda 6 with the seats folded down, meaning I didn't need to stuff around with a trailer or van.
The pricing was dirt-cheap too - it worked out at AUD$20 per 1200mm x 800mm panel! At this price, there's no excuse for NOT grabbing some and seeing what it does to your room. Of course, internationally-available product names and types my vary - this is relevant for Australia only.
I chose the 50mm as the thickness suited my intended use as side and rear wall absorbers, as well as allowing them to be doubled-up to become XHD 100mm if I wanted to experiment with absorbers that performed better at very low frequencies.
http://www.polymaxinsulation.com.au/downloads/Polymax_MDS_Absorb_Data_Sheet.pdf
A big benefit of the Polymax XHD is its stiffness. It will stand perfectly upright against a wall with no sagging. I could quite easily get away without framing these panels, such is the quality of manufacture and cutting. I will, however, do something regarding framing and/or covering some day so that they blend in better with the decor.
Interestingly, the Absorb XHD is manufactured using the 'card and cross-lap' method which Tontine used to use for their Acoustisorb many years ago, before switching to the 'air lay' process which is faster but less consistent and results in varied density throughout the product. One SNAer has encountered issues with the Tontine in a professional environment and only uses the Absorb as a result. Apparently, the published stats for the Tontine product are also based upon the old product from a few years ago (cheeky!) rather than the newer 'air lay' product which doesn't perform quite as well. It's amazing how much background and technical info there is on pro audio forums out there.
I had a bit of a listen with some familiar tracks, and then embarked on some non-scientific panel placement. I basically replaced some of the temporary panels and foam squares which I had placed at the first reflection points on the side wall, and on the rear wall elevated behind the listening chair. These were thin panels and your typical acoustic pyramid foam which did help a bit with slap echo, but little more. I also plonked a panel behind each speaker (this space was previously bare)
Cue the music... and whoaaaa, what do we have here? The improvement in reverb and echo was clear from the get-go. Imaging snapped into place, and subtleties which were previously masked are now clear and distinct. The sound is more coherent. From what I can tell, these panels have struck a pretty good balance between taming the ills of the room, yet allowing it to sound natural and still a tiny bit 'live'. Measurements may tell a different story, of course, but I'm very happy!
This is as good as I KNEW my system could sound. Gone are my concerns about the PMCs not quite living up to expectations, and likewise, that lingering doubt in the back of my mind that the audio-gd ES9018 DAC was too bright and not synergising with my rig. It's not the gear... IT'S YOUR ROOM, STUPID!! ;)
Colour me impressed! If you haven't played with room treatments, you don't know what you're missing out on. INCREDIBLE improvements can be had.
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/polymax3_zps59eda251.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/polymax3_zps59eda251.jpg.html)
http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s587/petemacsna/polymax4_zps8efd3867.jpg (http://s1307.photobucket.com/user/petemacsna/media/polymax4_zps8efd3867.jpg.html)