Cambridge Audio R50

[istari_knight]

Whats the low-down on these chaps ? They appear to use a classic driver lineup, transmission line loading & the cabinets are obviously built to a high standard [44kg's each !]

Needless to say, there's a pair locally :eyebrows: I'm sorely tempted as I do love transmission line's when done right.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/advert-cambridgeaudior50_zps32a81e4b.jpg

[The Barbarian]

I had some smaller 'R40's with my very first Quad '33'/'303' they sounded oki-doki to me..

[Macca]

How much are they asking for them James?

I think Martin T has mentioned that he used them in the dim and distant.

They do have a fairly good reputation. What happened to your JBLs? don't tell me you sold them.

[istari_knight]

I had some smaller 'R40's with my very first Quad '33'/'303' they sounded oki-doki to me..

They must be a pretty benign load if a 303 can drive them well ?


How much are they asking for them James?

I think Martin T has mentioned that he used them in the dim and distant.

They do have a fairly good reputation. What happened to your JBLs? don't tell me you sold them.

I feel so ashamed ! ... Yes, the JBL's & I parted company :mental: Currently running some KEF 103/4's which sound perfectly "good enough" but you know me - I like to change for the sake of it :mental:

The R50's are on eBay, both in average cosmetic condition - One has no output from its T27/Coles 4001... I could probably secure them for around £100 or maybe a little less.

[Macca]

They must be a pretty benign load if a 303 can drive them well ?



I feel so ashamed ! ... Yes, the JBL's & I parted company :mental: Currently running some KEF 103/4's which sound perfectly "good enough" but you know me - I like to change for the sake of it :mental:

.

Hah thought so - you kept that quiet. Mind you I can hardly talk given my own propensity for swapping stuff in and out just for kicks. I would say get the R50s but after those JBLs pretty much any speaker is going to be an anticlimax ;)

[DSJR]

IMF's were far better with the same drivers I remember and no reason why the basic loading couldn't be quite benign, as the IMF's were. Crossovers were complex though and an amp with high damping factor used to be mandatory, despite modern arguments that damping factor is a misnomer.

I'm sure the R50's could have oodles of fine tuning done to 'sort them out' for the modern age, so maybe worth a punt if cheap enough, as IMF's with rotting internal sponge line damping and knackered crossover caps still fetch huge money now.

[walpurgis]

Nice speaker the R50. The bass is a bit tighter than the big IMF transmission lines, just as extended though.

[istari_knight]

Hah thought so - you kept that quiet. Mind you I can hardly talk given my own propensity for swapping stuff in and out just for kicks. I would say get the R50s but after those JBLs pretty much any speaker is going to be an anticlimax ;)

Hehe they were nice speakers & certainly knew how to rock but I've found the KEF's to be much better for extended listening sessions... The JBL's could get very tiresome after a couple of albums - Sometimes even headache inducing with a poorly recorded album they were that ruthlessly revealing !


IMF's were far better with the same drivers I remember and no reason why the basic loading couldn't be quite benign, as the IMF's were. Crossovers were complex though and an amp with high damping factor used to be mandatory, despite modern arguments that damping factor is a misnomer.

I'm sure the R50's could have oodles of fine tuning done to 'sort them out' for the modern age, so maybe worth a punt if cheap enough, as IMF's with rotting internal sponge line damping and knackered crossover caps still fetch huge money now.

I had the TLS50II which used B200, Peerless mid/tweeter & AKG supertweeter... They were fantastic but I've not heard the TLS80 which is the model I think you're referring to Dave ?


Nice speaker the R50. The bass is a bit tighter than the big IMF transmission lines, just as extended though.

That sounds very appealing to me :)

[The Barbarian]

They must be a pretty benign load if a 303 can drive them well ?


I never bothered will all the technical side of audio will this drive that etc etc, but back then they work fine with each other, i don't remember any issues anyway..

Besides Q303 are magic :eyebrows:

[Macca]

Hehe they were nice speakers & certainly knew how to rock but I've found the KEF's to be much better for extended listening sessions... The JBL's could get very tiresome after a couple of albums - Sometimes even headache inducing with a poorly recorded album they were that ruthlessly revealing !



Yep, same as my Akais you have to be very, very selective with the partnering kit, they don't cover up any mistakes upstream.

[PaulStewart]

About a thousand years ago (well it feels like that anyway) I had a mate and we put a system together for him with a Transcriptors hydraulic reference with an ADC XLM, Armstrong 621, and a pair of R50s. It sounded the Dogs Danglies, a really great system. Hope you get them.

[istari_knight]

I never bothered will all the technical side of audio will this drive that etc etc, but back then they work fine with each other, i don't remember any issues anyway..

Besides Q303 are magic :eyebrows:

They are magic :)

You are right, they will work with pretty much anything but with a load remotely near 4ohm bass control is non existent due almost entirely to the undersized output capacitors... Increase their capacity & hear what it can really do. I'm sure you knew that anyway :D

[walpurgis]

Transcriptors hydraulic reference with an ADC XLM, Armstrong 621, and a pair of R50s.

That is a 'classic' seventies system.

[istari_knight]

Armstrong don't get many mentions compared to their contemporaries, any reason ? Apart from being fugly of course :)

[walpurgis]

Armstrong don't get many mentions compared to their contemporaries, any reason ? Apart from being fugly of course :)

They were excellent units. Very well made, solid and decent sounding. Certainly ranked alongside the excellent Cambridge gear of the time and in my view better than the contemporary solid state Leak stuff. I've used many of them and owned a few, they deliver fine results.

[DSJR]

The 600 series was a bit (actually rather a lot) odd in design and sonically outclassed by a Creek 4040 by the mid 80's. Very late ones weren't too bad though. Oh by the way, the one I bought motor-boated on output straight out of a sealed box new (in 1975) and didn't last long after it had been sorted by the manufacturer. I replaced it with a Lustraphone LP100 amp which was better in every way (the two I had twenty years ago eventually found their way to a collector, never to be seen again :().

[Barry]

A friend of mine uses (or used to use, I've lost touch with him) Cambridge R50s with a 75w/channel Harrison & Chapman S200 integrated amp. I believe he now uses an Arcam amplifier combination to power them, though I can't tell you the model number.

I have not heard the speakers for years now, but from memory they sounded excellent with deep, firm and thunderous bass. Can't comment on their soundstaging or focus, but I did read somewhere that the slatted 'grille' caused diffraction problems (so-called Venitian blind effect) - however none of the magazine reviews at the time mentioned this.

Depending on the asking price - I would give them a punt.

[PaulStewart]

That is a 'classic' seventies system.

Makes sense, it was the 70s, the vestigial arm was a bit strange, but it could track any warp

[istari_knight]

Thanks for the info Barry, informative as always !

If the T27/4001G are indeed faulty I reckon it'll cost around £50/60 to put right which isn't too bad. I see Wilmslow Audio sell replacement "upgrade" crossovers... I'll leave that can of worms firmly sealed for now :)

[sumday]

I owned a pair a few years back...supertweeters were duff on mine too.
cost me more than the whole speakers to replace them!!
the look of the speakers was a thing I like...narrow across the front but deep,deep,deep....they sure are big and sounded best at least a metre into my room. my advice is to remove the grilles, they are a dust trap and a bitch to clean.

nige.

[jandl100]

Waaay back in my school days (40+ years ago!) a friend had R50 - Terry Savastano, where are you?! - powered by a Hafler amp? Possibly.
Superb, or so it seemed at the time, big sound, deep deep well controlled bass.
I recall Kraftwerk Autobahn playing at insane levels. :drool:

IMF TLS80? - they just waffled along in comparison.

For a £ton or two, well worth investigating imo.

[istari_knight]

Interesting you preferred them over IMF's Jerry which are [were?] a bit of a benchmark for me. I'll certainly try & get them :thumbsup:

[DSJR]

Waaay back in my school days (40+ years ago!) a friend had R50 - Terry Savastano, where are you?! - powered by a Hafler amp? Possibly.
Superb, or so it seemed at the time, big sound, deep deep well controlled bass.
I recall Kraftwerk Autobahn playing at insane levels. :drool:

IMF TLS80? - they just waffled along in comparison.

For a £ton or two, well worth investigating imo.

So you compared TLS80's with R50's side by side using proper amps for TL speakers did you then Jerry? I did, but was spoiled by the bigger models we had on dem.

[istari_knight]

The IMF's with a decent 100 watts up 'em [HK Citation 12 Deluxe in my case] were something to behold... Quite literally jaw dropping at times on the right material.

[walpurgis]

Anybody remember the IMF ALS40? That was a brutal little (comparatively) beasty.

[istari_knight]

Anybody remember the IMF ALS40? That was a brutal little (comparatively) beasty.

Not heard those Geoff, I saw a pair once but they were completely shot... I remember the unusual "slotted" bass drivers though. Always wanted to try a pair of "Super Compacts" as they share an awful lot of parts with the TLS50 but by all account are somewhat underwhelming.

[walpurgis]

Always wanted to try a pair of "Super Compacts" as they share an awful lot of parts with the TLS50 but by all account are somewhat underwhelming.

You are correct. I had a pair (yes, I know I've had an awful lot of speakers) and did not think much of them. I found them a bit unrefined and two dimensional. A pair of MS Pageant IIs would run circles around them.

[dantheman91]

Anybody remember the IMF ALS40? That was a brutal little (comparatively) beasty.


There was a pair advertised local last week with a tuner amp & 8 track player but did not go for them as the mid range on both has deteriorated but someone bought them as their no longer advertised.

[istari_knight]

Thats a shame Dan, those Peerless mids are dead easy to refoam & foams only cost about £4 each from speakerrepairshop.nl

[istari_knight]

One hour left to go http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/fingerscrossed_zps299f6746.gif

[istari_knight]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/SmileyNailbiting_zps0ebfd61b.gif

[The Barbarian]

Armstrong don't get many mentions compared to their contemporaries, any reason ? Apart from being fugly of course :)
S'ok keeps prices down.. My fav Transistor Armstrong has to be the 400 series..

[istari_knight]

S'ok keeps prices down.. My fav Transistor Armstrong has to be the 400 series..

Agreed. Remind me of the Braun CSV-300 but possibly even prettier !

I just won the R50's btw... £100 :D

[walpurgis]

I just won the R50's btw... £100 :D

That's good. you can't go far wrong at that price, even if you have to spend a quid or two here and there to sort them. I reckon you'll like them James.

[istari_knight]

My thoughts exactly, fingers crossed its a loose connection or something but even if a couple of drive units are knackered it shouldn't be much more than £60 to get them working again.

Just hope I don't get a ruddy hernia transporting them http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/psdouch_zpscf5549b8.gif

[The Barbarian]

Well done James

[Barry]

Just hope I don't get a ruddy hernia transporting them http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/psdouch_zpscf5549b8.gif

Take care - they're bloody heavy!

[istari_knight]

Take care - they're bloody heavy!

That they are Barry, as I just discovered ! ... They are also bloody huge :stalks: They are in much better condition than the auction pictures suggested, the seller really didn't do himself any favours... Had to laugh when his partner said "thank Christ for that, I'll be glad to see the back of them !" :lol:

I'll stick a multimeter on the tweeters later & find out what needs replacing.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3851/14487058652_1210909c5f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/o5aXPj)

[Mothman]

They look very nice James, well done :thumbsup:. Good luck with the repair

[The Barbarian]

Yeh look in nice nick.. I doubt i'll ever buy anymore speakers now, However i would be very tempted if a minto pair of Goodmans 'Diamension 8' turned up at a good price..

[Beobloke]

WHAT? So you passed up my lovely speakers with one non-working driver to buy a pair with TWO non workers? Honestly, some people... :doh:

In all seriousness, you did very well there. I had a pair of R40s that I enjoyed greatly but they didn't survive a clearout a few years back. I still keep idly eying up R50s and wondering if they're '10 better'. Good luck with the repair and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them!

[istari_knight]

WHAT? So you passed up my lovely speakers with one non-working driver to buy a pair with TWO non workers? Honestly, some people... :doh:

In all seriousness, you did very well there. I had a pair of R40s that I enjoyed greatly but they didn't survive a clearout a few years back. I still keep idly eying up R50s and wondering if they're '10 better'. Good luck with the repair and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them!

Well, all I had to go on was the sellers very technical description of "tweeters don't work in one" whereas you made the fatal error of being honest and telling me how difficult/expensive a repair would likely be :D

I haven't put a signal through them yet but preliminary tests show: T27 & B139 in one have been replaced as manufacture dates differ by 3 years & the B139 is a different colour [bronze rather than black ?] In this speaker the T27/4001 crossover connections haven't been soldered, they were spliced & connected with a little plastic connection block and yes, the screws were loose causing a poor connection.

Off to Waitrose now to lower the tone... More to come later :)

[Macca]

[QUOTE=istari_knight;561594]Off to Waitrose now to lower the tone... [QUOTE]

Ah! It's not just me who does that, then...

[istari_knight]

Heh, I take great pride in it !

Bit of a bummer, connection block not at fault... T27 & 4001G in one speaker are both O/C. On the bright side the working speaker sounds very pleasant albeit in mono.

[Beobloke]

Well, all I had to go on was the sellers very technical description of "tweeters don't work in one" whereas you made the fatal error of being honest and telling me how difficult/expensive a repair would likely be :D

In that case, ignore everything I've written previously - the only isse with the SD1s is that one speaker sounds a "bit brighter than the other".

:D

[Mr Kipling]

There's a pair of '40s in Nuneaton with shagged cabinets that worked when they were put away.

[DSJR]

Failing all else, Falcon Acoustics are now making authentic modern B110's and T27's, designed and re-tooled by one of the original designers. The intention is to re-launch the original 15 ohm BBC licenced LS3/5A as good if not better than the originals, which were a headache to calibrate as the B110 was all over the place from batch to batch I remember. All they need to do now is a proper update on the B139 and we're laughing :)

[istari_knight]

Cheers for that Dave, yeah I've looked at those but its more than I want to spend initially. I would like to just hear them working first & take it from there... If I deem them worthy I'll plump for the new drivers & crossovers.

[jandl100]

R40 warning .... ime & imo the Mk2 are complete and utter shite, a total redesign by numpties who had nothing to do with the R40 Mk1 or R50 - the Mk1 is a pretty good mini-R50. :)

(R40 Mk1 has plastic slatted grilles like the R50, R40 Mk2 has cloth grille cover.)

.. but, opinion Health Warning .. I haven't heard any of these in about 40 years! ;)

Good luck with your pair of R50, James - they look the biz :thumbsup:

[The Barbarian]

Failing all else, Falcon Acoustics are now making authentic modern B110's and T27's, designed and re-tooled by one of the original designers. The intention is to re-launch the original 15 ohm BBC licenced LS3/5A as good if not better than the originals, which were a headache to calibrate as the B110 was all over the place from batch to batch I remember. All they need to do now is a proper update on the B139 and we're laughing :)

Hi Dave
Yeh myself & James have already been thru those Falcon jobbies via PM, people seem to praise the new 'T27's indeed..

[istari_knight]

I may have secured a pair of ex-B&W 4001G's but T27's are proving rather difficult to source [on the cheap!] Theres a fairly priced pair of SP6535 T27's on eBay... Anyone know if
they are a drop in replacement for the SP1032 ?

A search hasnt revealed much... Only that the SP6535 were in use from '68 until '71 when they were replaced by the SP1032 variant. They appear to be exactly the same thing but with a difference faceplate :hmm:

[istari_knight]

Concluded the earlier 6535's would work with the existing crossover but the magnet has a plastic moulding covering it meaning the cut-out needs to be 20mm bigger which I can't be arsed with. So I just bought a s/h SP1032 T27 for £45 delivered... Ouch.

Sorely tempted to buy a new pair of 4001G's from Falcon for the sake of an extra £40... Old one's do seem delicate so probably a false economy :hmm:

[Mr Kipling]

False Economy? I had one of those once… Didn't last long…

[istari_knight]

Don't False Economy just about sum up most of today products?

Sadly true !

4001G's now on order along with some "Alcaps" courtesy of Falcon Acoustics. In the speaker with blown HF units two of the crossover capacitors measure S/C, whether this caused the failure I dont know but its obvious HF units don't like being run full range so highly likely I would say.

[Firebottle]

.... two of the crossover capacitors measure S/C,
That sounds severe, were they cheap and nasty jobbies?

Cheers ,Alan

[istari_knight]

That sounds severe, were they cheap and nasty jobbies?

Cheers ,Alan

I say two but its turned out to be three... a pair of black Elcaps in the T27's 3rd order filter, one is a dead short & the other only shorts when a signal is applied. The third is an "Evox Rifa" metallized film in the 4001G's 2nd order filter which is a dead short.

They all look fine with no visible damage... Any idea what may have caused such a failure ? :scratch:

[Mr Kipling]

At a wild guess, I'd say The Gods probably ordained it.

[istari_knight]

Otherwise known as fate. I've come across many out of spec caps but this is a first [in a crossover anyway.]

[walpurgis]

I'd steer clear of the early T27 James. The later version without the recess is what you want. The recess causes a slight cavity effect colouration in the mid treble and the dispersion is not so good.

[istari_knight]

Duly noted Geoff. I went for the later version in the end. Good to know there is a difference in sound as the specs are very similar.

Should be up & running this time next week, I'm looking forward to having a listen to them...

[istari_knight]

Finally got my hands on a decent working T27 :yay:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3861/14566620153_e1b8384b17_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/occJFk)[/url]

I acquired these Gramophone scans courtesy of a very helpful "Lencoheaven" forum member, thanks Keith :thumbsup:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3843/14543096811_5f77968d06_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/occJFk)https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2924/14523400226_04caf9eae8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oa8b1t)[url=https://flic.kr/p/o8odUb]

Also got 5 pages of owners manual scans on the way.

[istari_knight]

Ta-Da !

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5484/14527947296_dffc25c165_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/o8MwzW)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3858/14364417919_958cfc5f18_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nTkoZV)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5511/14364425639_ffef9ac608_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nTkri2)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2903/14551042605_d459f2617c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oaPU1V)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3868/14364385080_5d9e7b4789_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nTkeeJ)

[Macca]

Amazing amount of detail in those manuals. Do modern speakers come with that amount of bumph?

I like the way they suggest that you will need at least a 15 watt amp. Pah! Stick a zero on that then you're talking...

[Barry]

Amazing amount of detail in those manuals. Do modern speakers come with that amount of bumph?

I like the way they suggest that you will need at least a 15 watt amp. Pah! Stick a zero on that then you're talking...

The user manual that came with the Cambridge P50 was equally well written. Don't like the mention of the use of DIN speaker connection though!

[istari_knight]

The "Room acoustics" section is quite interesting.... "The lowest frequency capable of reproduction within a room depends upon its greatest dimension - For example, a 30Hz signal cannot be generated in a room with a dimension of less than 37 feet."

I knew this already but it had drifted to the back of my memory... Makes trying to achieve realistic bass in your average living room seem a little daft.

[istari_knight]

Just finished reassembly after re-capping the crossover's & fitting replacement T27 / 4001G's...

First listen now :gig:

[istari_knight]

Crossover before & after:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5503/14569188181_361d285b5c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ocqU4F)

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3856/14385908138_a9ed461cc6_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nVexhW)

Something that really surprised me... Measured the removed capacitors and bar the aforementioned faulty three, every single one was within 1% of the rated value - Astounding for 40 year old electrolytics.

[istari_knight]

I may have lost the plot as I've been without a [proper] hifi for 4 weeks now but :wow: these sound good !

Initial listening was quite disappointing... Slow, lumpy bass, quacky mids & sibilant/overcooked treble. "Oh dear" I thought but either my ears have acclimatized or the new crossover components are settling in as they are constantly improving - Every track I play sounds better than the last :D

[dantheman91]

Hi James,

Cool Avatar :eyebrows:

How are you finding the R50's now any better and are they keepers :ner:

[istari_knight]

Hi James,

Cool Avatar :eyebrows:

How are you finding the R50's now any better and are they keepers :ner:

They're still going nicely Dan, I keep finding myself comparing them to my old IMF's but they are both 70's transmission line's so its inevitable I suppose... Obviously cant do a direct comparison but going on memory I would say the R50's win on bass tunefulness, high frequency detail & soundstage... I don't know how they do it but the R50's paint a huge soundscape in front of the listener. On the downside I think the Peerless midrange found in the IMF's are superior to the Kef B110's but these are old units, how a new pair of Falcon B110's would fare could be interesting :eyebrows:

As for keepers ? Yes, for now at least ;) I recently heard a pair of Quad ESL63's for the first time... They had just returned from a service & quite literally blew me away. So I shall be saving hard for a pair of those !

[dantheman91]

They're still going nicely Dan, I keep finding myself comparing them to my old IMF's but they are both 70's transmission line's so its inevitable I suppose... Obviously cant do a direct comparison but going on memory I would say the R50's win on bass tunefulness, high frequency detail & soundstage... I don't know how they do it but the R50's paint a huge soundscape in front of the listener. On the downside I think the Peerless midrange found in the IMF's are superior to the Kef B110's but these are old units, how a new pair of Falcon B110's would fare could be interesting :eyebrows:

As for keepers ? Yes, for now at least ;) I recently heard a pair of Quad ESL63's for the first time... They had just returned from a service & quite literally blew me away. So I shall be saving hard for a pair of those !

Hi

Excellent i remember as a kid my dad having a pair of IMF SACM Speakers these were huge :) always did like his big toys though i should i bought a pair of R40's that were local a few weeks back but apparently their not as good as the R50's. Also the quads my 405 should be back singing again shortly as ive missed it :eyebrows: Though my 33 & 303 still doing sterling service CLASSICS to me anyway everyone needs electrostatics once in their live they say you have not hear HI-FI until you own a pair of them :exactly:.

[istari_knight]

Final update on the R50's... I came to the conclusion they just weren't for me so now on their way to a new home :)

They produced an enjoyably large soundstage, treble was inoffensive yet ultimately boring, midrange was poor [very quacky], low frequencies were pretty much all they were good at IMO... Deep & powerful yet surprisingly detailed. Ultimately they were just too flawed for my wide taste in music, they ranged between adequate & impressive on pop/rock but sounded completely lost on anything refined IE. acoustic or "classical".

This is all in the context of a 15x12 room, tried all manner of different positioning & 4 different amplifiers so dont talk to me about synergy :D They would make a fantastic design for stereo subwoofers I reckon - just remove all drivers leaving the B139's in place.

[spendorman]

They're still going nicely Dan, I keep finding myself comparing them to my old IMF's but they are both 70's transmission line's so its inevitable I suppose... Obviously cant do a direct comparison but going on memory I would say the R50's win on bass tunefulness, high frequency detail & soundstage... I don't know how they do it but the R50's paint a huge soundscape in front of the listener. On the downside I think the Peerless midrange found in the IMF's are superior to the Kef B110's but these are old units, how a new pair of Falcon B110's would fare could be interesting :eyebrows:

As for keepers ? Yes, for now at least ;) I recently heard a pair of Quad ESL63's for the first time... They had just returned from a service & quite literally blew me away. So I shall be saving hard for a pair of those !

Recently powered up my Quad ESL63's which had been stored in a dry spare bedroom for about 20 years, one is faulty. Suspect it's the common problem of the adhesive in the units failing. Oh dear. I suppose that the R50's are a bit like glorified KEF Concerto's, never got on with those for same reasons as you. Bass was not bad though.

I gave the Concertos to a friend, he's been experimenting fitting the Ditton 66 dome midrange instead of the quacky B110, good results so far, he has made crossover changes.

[istari_knight]

Recently powered up my Quad ESL63's which had been stored in a dry spare bedroom for about 20 years, one is faulty. Suspect it's the common problem of the adhesive in the units failing. Oh dear. I suppose that the R50's are a bit like glorified KEF Concerto's, never got on with those for same reasons as you. Bass was not bad though.

I gave the Concertos to a friend, he's been experimenting fitting the Ditton 66 dome midrange instead of the quacky B110, good results so far, he has made crossover changes.

Ooh sorry to hear that... Hearing that sort of thing does put a damper on the thought of potential ownership.

My advice to anyone looking to improve R50's or similar would be to forget it & buy some IMF's :D

[spendorman]

Don't forget that many IMF's used the KEF B110 as a mid-range unit, might have similar problems to the R50 and Concerto.

I have two pairs of ESL57, they have been stored for about the same time, 20 years. I suspect that they may well still be in the same condition as when put in storage. Possibly, in the next few weeks, I might test them.

[istari_knight]

Yes, good point - Mine had Peerless mids/tweeters [same mids as Gale GS401 IIRC.]

... You have too many speakers ! :D Local hifi shop "hifi hangar" have just got a nice pair of Classique sounds refurbished 57's in... £500 they want, must. resist. temptation.

[spendorman]

Yes, good point - Mine had Peerless mids/tweeters [same mids as Gale GS401 IIRC.]

... You have too many speakers ! :D Local hifi shop "hifi hangar" have just got a nice pair of Classique sounds refurbished 57's in... £500 they want, must. resist. temptation.

The B110 can sound not too bad with the correct crossover. I sat my Chartwell LS3/5a's on top of the KEF Concertos, and boy did they show up how bad the Concerto's were in everything except deep bass.

57's wonderful, small sweet spot though. If you are sitting in it, superb. Double stacking is supposed to help with the small sweet spot. Never got round to doing that with my two pairs though.

Perhaps have a listen to those 63's. I remember years ago having a radio play on through them, someone called my name on the play, for a moment I thought that someone in the room had called my name.

[istari_knight]

The B110 can sound not too bad with the correct crossover.

It can indeed. I still have fond memories of my old Rogers LS3/5a's complete with BBC Leicester stickers on the rear... Sold them for £200 before they took off :doh:

I best not think about 'statics, I can't really afford them & if anything were to go wrong they would end up as boat anchors. I'll probably just keep an eye out for something basic but decent to tide me over for now.

Got an itch to try some HPD's as well but that'll have to wait too :D

[spendorman]

It can indeed. I still have fond memories of my old Rogers LS3/5a's complete with BBC Leicester stickers on the rear... Sold them for £200 before they took off :doh:

I best not think about 'statics, I can't really afford them & if anything were to go wrong they would end up as boat anchors. I'll probably just keep an eye out for something basic but decent to tide me over for now.

Got an itch to try some HPD's as well but that'll have to wait too :D

I have never worked on the 63's, the thought of it worries me, but about 25 years ago I fitted new treble panels, EHT transformer, various resistors and capacitors to my 57's. It was not too bad to do.

I sold my immaculate Tannoy 12" Silver DC's many years ago for £150. Hmm, a bit of a mistake in hindsight.

A couple of years ago I got some HPD 315's in beat up Devon cabinets. The drivers had been re-foamed well enough. There was a slight lack of treble from one speaker. The tweeter voice coil was re-centered very easily. Both units were identical sounding then, and very good.

The cabinets must have been stored in a damp place, as one was expanded and split along all of one edge. Several large clamps and PVA glue seemed to fix this. Cabinets just need tidying up now.