View Full Version : Vinyl Static
Why do I get most static at the beginning of a record, especially the lead in to the first track?:scratch:
The Grand Wazoo
26-05-2014, 18:55
I can see why in a picture in my head - one of those physics diagrams showing magnetic fields as red lines. But I'm buggered if I can describe it to you!
The Grand Wazoo
26-05-2014, 18:59
OK - the lines aren't red.....but....
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/images/onemag022a.gif
OK - the lines aren't red.....but....
http://www.coolmagnetman.com/images/onemag022a.gif
I see - thanks Chris but how are the magnetic fields created and is there a way to prevent them causing static? Or am I clutching at straws?
Ali Tait
26-05-2014, 19:23
Bought a Reso-Mat and don't have any static problems now.
Get an RCM and some Nagaoka inner sleeves. No more static and much cleaner records. There is no downside other than it costs some money.
Ali Tait
26-05-2014, 19:53
Aye, have a Nano Meco on the way.
Aye, have a Nano Meco on the way.
This one?
http://www.maquinaphk.xpg.com.br/home.html
Looks like it will do the job except I would prefer to scrub the record by hand.
Ali Tait
26-05-2014, 20:09
Aye that's it. Nowt stopping scrubbing by hand, just lift the arm out of the way.
Bought a Reso-Mat and don't have any static problems now.
That's a very good point - and something I've also noticed! :)
Wonder what's going on there, then? :scratch:
Marco.
That's a very good point - and something I've also noticed! :)
Wonder what's going on there, then? :scratch:
Marco.
Physics, probably. It gets everywhere nowadays.
Had a look at the reso-mat - looks interesting but not sure how it prevents static? Bet it changes the sound of the TT though.
It's very, very good (at least it is in my system) :)
Marco.
Ali Tait
26-05-2014, 20:24
Aye, I'm liking it on my 401 too.
Not sure how it's stopping the static, but it is.
Ali Tait
26-05-2014, 20:25
Marco, do you have anything under the mat?
Just the platter, lol!
Marco.
walpurgis
26-05-2014, 20:30
If you've got static problems, try raising the room humidity a bit with a regularly watered potted plant or two.
(or just have a damp house like me :))
Ali Tait
26-05-2014, 20:41
Just the platter, lol!
Marco.
Aye me too. I suspect that's it, the static is grounding through the mat and platter. Most other mats are rubber or cork or similar, which would act as an insulator.
I have never had any problems with static. The secret is to remove the record gently from the inner sleeve, and if the inner sleeve is polythene-lined then give the record a 'once over' with a carbon fibre record brush when on the turntable platter. Oh, and by the way, always touch the metal work with your free hand, otherwise you are likely to create a static charge.
Since the edge of the record is the last to leave the inner sleeve when it is removed, I can understand why the static might be worse there. But equally static charge can occur anywhere on a record's surface. Chris's diagram has nothing to do with magnetic fields, rather it shows the electrostatic field strength that might exist if the greatest charge resides near the outer edge.
The Grand Wazoo
26-05-2014, 23:09
Chris's diagram has nothing to do with magnetic fields, rather it shows the electrostatic field that might exist if the greatest charge resides near the outer edge.
Surely, if both sides are charged, the effect will be additive to a greater degree on the edge than further towards the centre, as implied by the diagram?
It depends on the amount of charge created - the charge density or distribution may not be uniform across the disc, either radial or circumferentially.
The Grand Wazoo
26-05-2014, 23:23
OK. Interesting thanks. l hadn't imagined it might vary so much.
The charge is created by the physical transfer of electrons from the inner sleeve to the vinyl, through the mechanical action of rubbing the record against the sleeve during removal. The amount of friction or rubbing is likely to vary during this action, so I doubt if the charge created will be uniform. But then I'm no expert in this.
I still maintain the gentle removal of a record from the inner sleeve minimises the creation of static charge. And as others have observed, a dry or very low humidity atmospheric environment doesn't help.
Ali Tait
27-05-2014, 05:47
I use Mo Fi sleeves, and have previously had quite severe static problems. None whatsoever after fitting the Reso Mat, whatever the reason.
The very best inner sleeves were the Tannoy E-stat. Nice soft sleeves (but not so soft they would crumple), made using long fibres that looked as though they contained a lot of carbon black.
Unfortuately they seemed to have disappeared from the market. They were very expensive, but they were the best.
Mo-Fi, Goldring, VRP and Nagaoka are all very good, but I don't like the Nagaokas very much because they crumple easily.
Ali Tait
27-05-2014, 10:52
Yes, I've found the same with the Mo Fi's, however, I've found it better to feed the Mo Fi sleeve inside the sleeve that comes with the record, that way there's no crumpling problems.
Scott has sent me some very nice sleeves to try which I believe are Disc Doctor, not sure how much they are, but they seem very good quality.
I have tried the Nagaoka sleeves and they are quite good. I also use a VPI 16.5 RCM which helps but static annoyingly creeps back. I wonder if my sorbathane TT mat isn,t helping, quite often when I remove a record from the TT I get quite a large discharge of static.
I do use a carbon fibre brush but this crackles with static when I use it, especially towards the edge of the record.
Maybe I ought try a Zerostat gun or earth myself:lol:
Ali Tait
27-05-2014, 12:19
This might be a good solution-
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/stat_trap_e.html
Rush2112
01-06-2014, 06:24
Well for me it's much as above a Moth RCM, Nagaoka inner sleeves and a Nagaoka NF103 anti static gun! Not sure if the gun still exists but the Zerostat is I think and that's good too.
I never seem to suffer from static problems irrespective of what inner sleeves the record has, paper, ant-static etc. I don't use an anti-static gun either - but then I rarely clean records on the turntable platter as that does generate static and I don't shuffle round my listening room in slippers (don't own any slippers).
As a Rega user I found the stock felt mat to be the cause of all my static woes, it even sticks to the record when you change sides grrrrrr.:steam:
Switching to a cork/nitrile mat solved this problem and didn't negatively impact the sound.
Reading through lots of the posts kindly submitted by AOS folk I have come to the following conclusions.
1. Static varies according to humidity and temperature.
2. Use of different turntable mats can have a positive effect although this will also affect SQ.
3.Handling of vinyl, especially removing from record sleeves slowly can reduce static
4. Use of anti static sleeves, guns and brushes may help.
5. Thorough record cleaning with a good RCM beneficial.
I have ticked off most of these methods/suggestions apart from anti-static gun and new TT mat, so will try these next!
Dry cleaning with brushes or cloths creates static. The felt record mats don't really cause the static, they just reveal it very effectively (as the mat weighs very little and is strongly attracted to the static charge).
All (well, over 90% anyway) brand new records seem to arrive with a strong static charge on them but once released from the clinging inner sleeve I have found the charge dissipates very quickly as you handle it.
A record has to be actively charged to gain a static charge - it won't just develop one of its own accord. If it is in a warm, low humidity atmosphere it will be more prone to gaining and holding a charge but that still has to be created. Unless you have a Van de Graaff generator the only practical way to apply the charge is by rubbing the record - with the stylus (not very effective), with the record sleeve (more effective but still not that good), with a dust bug type trailing arm (quite good) or cleaning on the turntable platter (exceedingly effective). Usually if you clean the record off the platter the static is discharged by yourself when you pick the record up.
Actually, the felt mat can cause static - if the mat spins against either the platter or the record (it's most likely to spin against the lower friction platter though and as it is the friction that generates the static it shouldn't generate a lot - it depends how much spinning it does).
Hi Mark,
do you think a Sorbathane TT Mat may cause static as I find sometimes the charge is so great when i take a record off the TT it pulls the mat off with it!!?:eek:
Ali Tait
01-06-2014, 12:45
Yep, had the same problem with the cork/rubber mat I was previously using.
Yep, had the same problem with the cork/rubber mat I was previously using.
which mat are you using now?
Ali Tait
01-06-2014, 13:07
The Reso Mat. Have no problems at all now.
Hi Mark,
do you think a Sorbathane TT Mat may cause static as I find sometimes the charge is so great when i take a record off the TT it pulls the mat off with it!!?:eek:
I would be very surprised - I mean, it can't actually generate it without some further input. However, sorbothane is very 'sticky' (not in a glue residue sense, because of the molecular structure of the material) and will tend to want to stick to clean records without any static.
As an aside, I have tried loads and loads of record mats, clamps, weights - my least favourite type of mat is a soft polymer type - like the Sorbothane.
I would be very surprised - I mean, it can't actually generate it without some further input. However, sorbothane is very 'sticky' (not in a glue residue sense, because of the molecular structure of the material) and will tend to want to stick to clean records without any static.
As an aside, I have tried loads and loads of record mats, clamps, weights - my least favourite type of mat is a soft polymer type - like the Sorbothane.
I think Mark you are correct in that the Sorbathane is a tad sticky and this is what i am experiencing. However I do still get quite a bit of static so will have a look at the Reso Mat. Where did you get yours from by the way?
Me, I don't have a Reso Mat, but I did inspire it (I think it still says that on their website).
Ali Tait
01-06-2014, 15:55
Just look on Ebay. Make sure you get the correct one for your deck, there is a slightly different one for 301/401's.
Haselsh1
01-06-2014, 16:06
I've been thinking about this turntable mat lark as I also used to get the old cork mat sticking to the record on removal when I changed back to an original Thorens mat and no longer have the problem however I am certain that the way to go is carbon fibre as these transmit electricity and therefore will earth away any static, won't they...?
Yes they will, as long as they are earthed via the platter; that is, you do not have an insulating rubber or cork mat in between.
Some bearings aren't earthed though and even when they are the path to ground from the record is not a clear one. If the thrust pad is synthetic, or the thrust ball is not metallic (ceramic, ruby etc), there is unlikely to be a conductive path. Because my platter is entirely magnetically supported there is no path to ground from the record and still I have no static issues.
Some bearings aren't earthed though and even when they are the path to ground from the record is not a clear one. If the thrust pad is synthetic, or the thrust ball is not metallic (ceramic, ruby etc), there is unlikely to be a conductive path. Because my platter is entirely magnetically supported there is no path to ground from the record and still I have no static issues.
The path to earth doesn't have to be that direct - 10 MOhms will do.
Ali Tait
01-06-2014, 18:10
Easy to measure with a meter.
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