Stewpid and generalising question alert!

[Tarzan]

l have heard a couple of high end MC carts in my time ( at home) and to my some what middle age ears they seem very etched/ thin/ bright and a tad uninvolving, where l have had MM carts (ok a couple) here that have all sounded quite a bit fuller and more musical ( my Stanton 500) is a prime example, this cartridge's sound is addictive!

l have a Denon DL103 on my Gryro that sounds fat compared to most of all the High end MC'S l have heard, please discuss before they take me away ha ha:mental:.

[Mr Kipling]

Isn't there a fat-free… Denon?

[Audio Al]

Hello Mr Tarzan

I think I may bE ablE 2 Help you with this conundrum

With the HIgh eNd cartridges The are made too far more exacting standards with much higher quality construction and comPOnents , The winding in the coil are better quality , ThE cantilever is better and the stylus is of far higher and thinner manuFacture ending in a higher quality diAmond

This iN my opinion allows the diaMond to enter the groove further and extract the finer detail
At first with MY ventUre into HIGH end Cartridges I also was having diFFiculty getting to grips with the more transparent open and honEst sound reproduction , However I now love IT

The 103 you are aCCustome to is of lower QUAlIty and mass produced with cheaper components ( windings / Stylus / cantilever / diamond ) and I again think ( only my opinion ) that the diamond sits higher up the Groove in the lP and gives a richer / fatter / Fuller / ricHer sound as it is contact with more of the grove sides than tHe finer tips

Again , this IS only my audio numPty opinion ;) other will have differEnt oppInions

[walpurgis]

please discuss before they take me away ha ha:mental:.

You seem to have a problem Andy. :)

In my experience, the brightness or thinness you describe can happen with MMs too. I'll grant that it does seem more prevalent with MCs, although generally most MCs I've come across have been reasonably well behaved. I have decent MCs which are rich and on the warm side and others which are far more analytical. They each have their place, depending on system setup.

(I won't discuss the DL-103, 'cos when I do, I get told off for making rude comments about it. It's not a bad old thing really)

[Audio Al]

(I won't discuss the DL-103, 'cos when I do, I get told off for making rude comments about it. It's not a bad old thing really)

Nail ? :ner:

[awkwardbydesign]

l have heard a couple of high end MC carts in my time ( at home) and to my some what middle age ears they seem very etched/ thin/ bright and a tad uninvolving, where l have had MM carts (ok a couple) here that have all sounded quite a bit fuller and more musical ( my Stanton 500) is a prime example, this cartridge's sound is addictive!

l have a Denon DL103 on my Gryro that sounds fat compared to most of all the High end MC'S l have heard, please discuss before they take me away ha ha:mental:.
If you like what MMs do, why bother with MCs? Is it because you think they "should" sound better? I have been down that road, and if I find I like something, it doesn't matter what the perceived wisdom is; they are MY ears. And the 103 does some good things, I like what it did, but preferred something else in the end. But that's just me.
Having said all that, component matching is important, but if you like something then stick with it.

[Barry]

If you like what MMs do, why bother with MCs? Is it because you think they "should" sound better? I have been down that road, and if I find I like something, it doesn't matter what the perceived wisdom is; they are MY ears. And the 103 does some good things, I like what it did, but preferred something else in the end. But that's just me.
Having said all that, component matching is important, but if you like something then stick with it.

Sensible advice Richard. It is all a matter of taste - though it might be that none of those 'high end' MC cartridges like the phonostage you are using Andy.

[Gordon Steadman]

but if you like something then stick with it.

What is this heresy?

Box swappers of the world unite and tell him how wrong they wish he was:ner:

[talisman2]

i love my Goldring 1042 MM to bits , which is more friendly (but not as detailed) as my Ortofon Rondo Bronze

[archiesdad]

Hello Mr Tarzan

I think I may bE ablE 2 Help you with this conundrum

With the HIgh eNd cartridges The are made too far more exacting standards with much higher quality construction and comPOnents , The winding in the coil are better quality , ThE cantilever is better and the stylus is of far higher and thinner manuFacture ending in a higher quality diAmond

This iN my opinion allows the diaMond to enter the groove further and extract the finer detail
At first with MY ventUre into HIGH end Cartridges I also was having diFFiculty getting to grips with the more transparent open and honEst sound reproduction , However I now love IT

The 103 you are aCCustome to is of lower QUAlIty and mass produced with cheaper components ( windings / Stylus / cantilever / diamond ) and I again think ( only my opinion ) that the diamond sits higher up the Groove in the lP and gives a richer / fatter / Fuller / ricHer sound as it is contact with more of the grove sides than tHe finer tips

Again , this IS only my audio numPty opinion ;) other will have differEnt oppInions


Are having a problem with caps key? or a laugh?

[Barry]

Are having a problem with caps key? or a laugh?

Sorry Al, I'm afraid I don't bother reading your posts when you mix up the letter case in the middle of words. :(

[julesd68]

Are having a problem with caps key? or a laugh?

I believe it may be a private joke between Tarzan and Al...

Back to the original point - I had a very similar experience with the last two MC's I tried. Both totally lacking the drive that my current MM has. Just in case it was a loading or some kind of mismatch issue, since I now have different gear, I'm going to give MC'S one last go - most likely with an AT33 PTG/II when funds allow...

[walpurgis]

I'm going to give MC'S one last go - most likely with an AT33 PTG/II when funds allow...

What influenced that choice Julian?

[julesd68]

What influenced that choice Julian?

Hi Geoff, a number of things really. I'd read positive reports on it here and elsewhere but got to hear one recently, albeit in a very different system to my own. It should in theory be a good match for both the Lentek head-amp and also my arm. I am hoping it will be a little more 'neutral' than my cart without being too bright as some of the AT's have the reputation for...

[walpurgis]

I've not tried one, but I believe it's a fairly close relative of the older AT-32E which I have heard and that was somewhat more controlled and calm than the AT-07 and AT-OC5, etc. variants.

[Reffc]

It's a very good cartridge Julian.

[jandl100]

It's amazing how opinions differ.

I'll always take a decent MC cart over any MM I have ever heard. They just sound more like real music to me. And no, I don't hear any thinness or etch.

I was at an AOSer's place the other day and compared his high fallutin' Reson mm cart (a 1042 variant with an RRP around £600, I think) with my Ortofon MC25FL mc cart - the Reson had tauter leaner and more textured bass and also a more 'obvious' feel of dynamic drive, which would be a good reason (Reson?) for some folks to buy it, but in terms of openness, subtle dynamic nuance, resolution in the mids and treble and overall musical subtlety and naturalness the MC was substantially superior, in both our opinions. It just sounded more real to me.
He's now on the lookout for an MC cart. ;)

Funny old business, innit. :)

[walpurgis]

Yes, I've got a couple of MC25FLs in my collection (amazing how cartridges accumulate) and they sound lovely in my system, almost enveloping you in the perspective.

[Stratmangler]

http://www.extremephono.com/Loading.htm

[Floyddroid]

:sofa:I have and have had some great MC cartridges. A couple of high end jobbies and a couple of less expensive ones. We seem to be over looking the obvious here and that is personal choice. I don't like the Denon cartridges at all though i respect the views of those that do. It is probably excellent (eat shit, ten million flies can't be wrong philosophy) i just don't like it. I don't like the Beatles either but i appreciate their genious. Of all my MC's i love my AT OC9 MLIII for it's peppy musical nature though i know of others who despise it. I have an Ortofon 2M Blue on one of my other tables that sounds absolutely brilliant so i can see where Andy is coming from. Expectations of expensive costly MC's are far greater than their less costly MM brethran, though i wager their are lots of folke out there like myself get more fun out of their MM's.
The jury is out on phono stages too.

[Mr Kipling]

It's amazing how opinions differ.

Indeed! Never been a liver lover - and yet others regard it as Food From The Gods!

Yes… It's a funny old game…

[twotone]

It's amazing how opinions differ.

I'll always take a decent MC cart over any MM I have ever heard. They just sound more like real music to me. And no, I don't hear any thinness or etch.

I was at an AOSer's place the other day and compared his high fallutin' Reson mm cart (a 1042 variant with an RRP around £600, I think) with my Ortofon MC25FL mc cart - the Reson had tauter leaner and more textured bass and also a more 'obvious' feel of dynamic drive, which would be a good reason (Reson?) for some folks to buy it, but in terms of openness, subtle dynamic nuance, resolution in the mids and treble and overall musical subtlety and naturalness the MC was substantially superior, in both our opinions. It just sounded more real to me.
He's now on the lookout for an MC cart. ;)

Funny old business, innit. :)

I have a Reson Jerry and love it but I bought a Firebottle phono amp and the seller (Paul) matched the phono stage to the cart by using a (matched) resistor in the inputs of the phono stage, the Reson needs to see a load capacitance of between 150-250pf to be at it's best according to the manual.

[6L6]

Stratmangler has it spot on - you have no idea what your MC sounds like until you have experimented with loading and found the best value for your system. Period.

:)

[Tarzan]

Stratmangler has it spot on - you have no idea what your MC sounds like until you have experimented with loading and found the best value for your system. Period.

:)

x2- all adds to the fun.

[YNWaN]

A MC cartridge shouldn't sound etched or thin in any way* - but I suppose it depends what your reference is. Pretty much all the MM cartridges I have ever heard have sounded bold but lacking in finesse and inner detail.

* thinking about it, the OC9 mentioned earlier in the thread is a bit thin sounding - not sure about etched, but it is like someone slipped tap water into the wine ;).

[Beobloke]

Funny, I've been using an AT-OC9MLII for years and I love it, and have never heard it sound 'thin' until recently, when it was plugged into a friend's Musical Fidelity KW-550. It was on a Sony TTS-8000, in an SME 309 and sounded dull, flat, thin and lifeless - I was horrified, especially as I'd heaved this beast round to his to let him hear what a "proper" turntable sounded like! Subsequent investigations revealed that the input loading on the MF is still 47kOhm, even when the phono stage is set to 'MC', however and herein lay the problem. The OC9 likes a LOW load - recommended is 20 Ohms but it sounds superb on my own phono stage that gives it 100 Ohms. I am convinced that half the people who dismiss it as bright or thin are listening to it incorrectly loaded.

To return to the OP - if you prefer MMs, that's fine - dont't worry about it! :) I'm guessing that if you like the Stanton 500 (do you really like this? Really?!:wowzer:) then an MC will probably indeed not be for you.

[YNWaN]

I must admit, I've never thought our tastes were very Closely aligned and I'm not surprised to find that belief further confirmed. However, perhaps we share a similar opinion of the Stanton...