Build thread...

[K3vin]

I'm on a few high performance car forums where it's common to start a 'build thread' charting your progress on a new project. As I'm getting back into hifi and sort of starting from scratch I thought I'd try a similar thing here...


I spent some weeks thinking about the turntable I wanted to go with, having previously worked my way from a basic Rega, through the LP12 range (up to Lingo, Ekos, Arkiv etc. etc.) then finally an SME 20 V Koetsu.

I never took the 1210 seriously before but it seemed to keep coming up on google when researching the current crop of entry level decks as a good choice- from a hobby POV as well as sheer quality of sound, so I thought, what the hell, they seem cheap enough.

During my research I found this very site, which has become either a godsend, or route back to hifi addiction. I'm setting out with the intention of keeping a lid on things, taking a different approach to upgrades, and more importantly, cost.

I already have a good 'Graaf' amp which hasn't seen the light of day in 10 years, so that is my starting point.

I was just about to buy one of those £350-£450 decks you see loads of on ebay which have been 'serviced', until I placed a call to MCRU (nice helpful guy) who told me not to bother- get a suitable candidate for about £250 from Gumtree he said, seeing as I'll probably be junking most of the stuff that causes problems anyway.

As luck would have it, the perfect deck fell into my lap, right here on AOS. While reading a thread, I followed a link to Steve at Mana's web page where he had one for sale. He's only a few miles from me, so after a most enjoyable visit to his home to hear the deck on his wonderful sounding system I bought it.

Now, this is where things start to get interesting (financially) because what was a good value purchase initially, turned into a good excuse to press the 'buy it now' button on ebay- oh, about 7 or 8 times in the last 24hrs, as well as a trip over to see 'musicmike' to buy a couple of items, and hear what a well sorted 1210 can do while I was there.

So, here's where I'm at with the deck, having owned it for about 48hrs:

1 x Technics 1210- £250.00 from AOS- Steve.
1 x Bruil (or very similar looking) record weight, won on ebay tonight for about £17.00 with postage.
1 x New Technics OEM bearing £21.00 inc delivery from ebay.
1 x New Technics OEM dust cover £56.00 inc delivery from ebay.
1 x Pair of used hinges £8.00 inc delivery from ebay.
1 x Achromat 1200 £75.00 inc delivery from ebay.
1 x Mobile Fidelity Geo cartridge set-up tool £38.00 inc delivery from ebay.
1 x Used Denon DL 103 £120.00 from AOS- Mike.

Also:

1 x Angle Audio ref phono stage £90.00 collected, from Gumtree.
1 x Pair of Rega R1 speakers £115.00 delivered, from Gumtree.
1 x Pair of Kimber interconnects £15.00 collected from Mike.
4 x Pairs of Z plugs £5.95 from ebay.
1 x Pair Atacama SE60 speaker stands £32.00 won on ebay.
1 x Mobile Fidelity P9 stylus cleaner kit £22.00 inc delivery from ebay.
1 x Mobile Fidelity record brush £16.00 inc delivery from ebay.
1 x Mobile Fidelity record cleaning fluid £22.00 inc delivery from ebay.


I have the basic system set up, with the cartridge and phono stage, some Siltech cables my amp and the speakers (none of the other items will arrive till next week) and how does it sound...

Bloody marvellous!

I'll post some pics and more details as I make chages to the system, and report back on what I think of them.

P.S. Hope this thread is okay with Admin, and it's in the right place.

[MikeMusic]

Great idea Kevin.
I was beginning to wonder about my various postings of all the bits I did, scattered all over the place.

Martin T has one "Long journey to happiness"

Would be helpful for everyone thinking of upgrading to see what others had done - and to see the big jumps in sound quality.

Since I came to AoS I have changed everything bar the Mana stacks, the Isobariks, although even they have been tweaked, advice and work courtesy of Dave Wren at Radlett - and the house !
Lots of items upgraded more than once.

The big plus here is the search for value so the big improvements are often not that expensive.
We want lots of them

[K3vin]

Hi Mike.

I think it could be helpful as I no doubt will try out many different things and give my views on them as I go along. There is however always the caviat that the sound of hifi is subjective (to say the least) and one man's meat is another man's poison, as well as the fact that I will be going in a different direction than the 'norm' with the deck.

I must correct something I said to you btw, as it seems there are two Funk Firm platters- one at £595. and one at £895, that looks more like the MN platter.

Also, there are two bearings out there it seems- one at around £295 and the MN at closer to £500- again I'd like to hear opinions on the cost vs performance between the two.

[MikeMusic]

Agree some is subjective.
Some kit will also sound bad if in a bad, possibly 'wrong' system.
The best front end in the world will sound horrid with naff speakers.
Didn't know about the 2 Funk Firm platters.....
I think the consensus around here is MN bearing every time

[K3vin]

Thanks- I kind of thought the MN was the way to go, on the basis of 'do it once'. I have bought a new OEM bearing in the meantime, just for peace of mind.

The thing that concerns me most about the stock deck are those arm cables, but no point doing anything with them as I'm going to fit that uni-pivot arm.

[struth]

I'll second that; a great way to do it...

Think my TT is all I have left since arriving in AoS and Wammo....Got more stuff coming too:doh: gonna have to start a new thread about all of it mesel

[K3vin]

I'll second that; a great way to do it...

Think my TT is all I have left since arriving in AoS and Wammo....Got more stuff coming too:doh: gonna have to start a new thread about all of it mesel

I see you have one of those Chinese valve amps, I want one! This is the one I like the look of http://http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2014-new-full-aluminum-case-300B-tube-amp-amplifier-pure-Class-A-8-5W-2-/251535582622?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item3a90b0659e (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2014-new-full-aluminum-case-300B-tube-amp-amplifier-pure-Class-A-8-5W-2-/251535582622?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item3a90b0659e).

How have you found yours?

[struth]

I couldn't get the link to open....The mighty Yaqin is superb, it really is...running through a bucking tx to reduce mains to about 220v and it makes a difference. Works real well with the Q Acoustics. as good an amp as you'll find for anywhere near the money.

[Andrei]

Very nice Kevin. I hope you can put some pics up.

[K3vin]

Here's a couple of shots;

http://i62.tinypic.com/2aj84ew.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/x4q5g6.jpg

A couple of my 'upgrades' arrived today. First was a set of Z plugs for the princely sum of £5.95 inc postage. I fitted them earlier today then put them on as soon as I got in- holy shit, they were an improvement over the rather expensive locking bananas I had on there (IIRC they were over £100), maybe these are the ultimate hifi bargain I was always hoping to find... nope.

Next I used the Mobile Fidelity LP9 stylus cleaner which came with a ortofon style brush- now this I could do a straight A B dem on and, yes, a noticeable improvement in every area- well worth the £22, especially as it will last a very long time.

Lastly I dropped the clamp/weight I bought for £12.00 plus £4.30 delivery. First off, I was expecting a used one (the seller didn't mention condition on ebay, so it must be used I thought) but in fact it was brand new!

Okay- what's going on here I thought. It was as though the volume had been turned down two notches (on my stepped volume control), listening further, I was stunned, not just me tho', my partner who knows nothing about hifi looked at me and said 'massive improvement!, it now sounds soooo sweet, and melodic, I can follow the music perfectly now'.

The reason for the percieved change in volume is the dramatic drop in colouration- THIS is the biggest hifi bargain I've ever had, and if I'd paid 10x the purchase price I'd still be happy.

I've been sat here doing something I always found hard in the past- listening to track after track without ever wanting to change tracks, albums, volume, speaker placement etc. I'm suffering from a severe lack of listener fatigue.

I've heard (obviously self deluded;)) souls in the past tell me a 1210 can hold its own with top decks, and I never believed it- without ever once trying it to see. I'm an idiot!

And, no, just in case anyone thinks I'm subconciously deluding myself in a bid to justify my choices- I am not- I'm the person who finds fault in every system, and is nearly always slightly unhappy about my system, or the change I just made.

As it sits right now, if I was told I had to live with it 'as is' forever- I'd accept it with good grace.

Can't wait for the Achromat and new bearing now, things can only get better (as Tony Blair once lied said).

[MikeMusic]

Technics direct drive- rubbish (I used to think)
:rolleyes:
It's great when the improvements come in such jumps

My big change with the Achromat came with it being added to the MN bearing and Funk Firm platter
One of the biggest improvements going but not sure how much the other 2 added

[loo]

Here's a couple of shots;

http://i62.tinypic.com/2aj84ew.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/x4q5g6.jpg

A couple of my 'upgrades' arrived today. First was a set of Z plugs for the princely sum of £5.95 inc postage. I fitted them earlier today then put them on as soon as I got in- holy shit, they were an improvement over the rather expensive locking bananas I had on there (IIRC they were over £100), maybe these are the ultimate hifi bargain I was always hoping to find... nope.

Next I used the Mobile Fidelity LP9 stylus cleaner which came with a ortofon style brush- now this I could do a straight A B dem on and, yes, a noticeable improvement in every area- well worth the £22, especially as it will last a very long time.

Lastly I dropped the clamp/weight I bought for £12.00 plus £4.30 delivery. First off, I was expecting a used one (the seller didn't mention condition on ebay, so it must be used I thought) but in fact it was brand new!

Okay- what's going on here I thought. It was as though the volume had been turned down two notches (on my stepped volume control), listening further, I was stunned, not just me tho', my partner who knows nothing about hifi looked at me and said 'massive improvement!, it now sounds soooo sweet, and melodic, I can follow the music perfectly now'.

The reason for the percieved change in volume is the dramatic drop in colouration- THIS is the biggest hifi bargain I've ever had, and if I'd paid 10x the purchase price I'd still be happy.

I've been sat here doing something I always found hard in the past- listening to track after track without ever wanting to change tracks, albums, volume, speaker placement etc. I'm suffering from a severe lack of listener fatigue.

I've heard (obviously self deluded;)) souls in the past tell me a 1210 can hold its own with top decks, and I never believed it- without ever once trying it to see. I'm an idiot!

And, no, just in case anyone thinks I'm subconciously deluding myself in a bid to justify my choices- I am not- I'm the person who finds fault in every system, and is nearly always slightly unhappy about my system, or the change I just made.

As it sits right now, if I was told I had to live with it 'as is' forever- I'd accept it with good grace.

Can't wait for the Achromat and new bearing now, things can only get better (as Tony Blair once lied said).

Never mind the Techy wheres the pictures of the Graaf:eyebrows:
Paul

[Firebottle]

Kevin could you post the link to the record weight off fleabay please?

Cheers,
Alan

[K3vin]

Kevin could you post the link to the record weight off fleabay please?

Cheers,
Alan


Here you go, but it looks like a one off sale: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141281080255?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[Firebottle]

Thanks Kev, it does look that way.
You got it a good price looking at the rest on fleabay :eyebrows:

Alan

[Gordon Steadman]

Kevin could you post the link to the record weight off fleabay please?

Cheers,
Alan

If thats for the DD, it will be interesting to see what you think if you get one. I tried it with a clamp and much preferred it without. I'm not sure what the difference is between a weight and a clamp is, I assume they do the same job but one puts less strain on the bearing I assume. I suppose it also depends if the added weight suits the TT.

[K3vin]

I looked out for a weight that was less than 400g as I understand the 1210 is fine upto that weight. I put the Achromat on last night and was a little underwhelmed. It could be that in conjunction with the other changes I made leading up to it, I've reached the limit of the arm/onboard PSU, but it didn't improve the sound near as much as the weight did.

I also changed out the old bearing for a new OEM one, which has if anything caused a bloom in the mid base. I suspect it may be a simple case of run-in required, as the old bearing was quite pitted- and interestingly, a slightly different design. It had a plastic cog on the base that the new one doesn't have.

This effect that the bearing caused, now makes it hard to check the weight vs the mat on their own to see which is the better of the two.

I was also surprised to see that my Achromat was a little warped, with a definate hump causing the arm to wave as it passes over it. I know that few of my records will be flat, and in fact at one point with a less than perfect album the two together caused the arm to wave up and down continually. Still, it's not ideal.

[Firebottle]

If thats for the DD, it will be interesting to see what you think if you get one. I tried it with a clamp and much preferred it without. I'm not sure what the difference is between a weight and a clamp is, I assume they do the same job but one puts less strain on the bearing I assume. I suppose it also depends if the added weight suits the TT.

Ah that's interesting Gordon but I'm not in any rush, one of those things to try at some time ;)

[MikeMusic]

I looked out for a weight that was less than 400g as I understand the 1210 is fine upto that weight. I put the Achromat on last night and was a little underwhelmed. It could be that in conjunction with the other changes I made leading up to it, I've reached the limit of the arm/onboard PSU, but it didn't improve the sound near as much as the weight did.

I also changed out the old bearing for a new OEM one, which has if anything caused a bloom in the mid base. I suspect it may be a simple case of run-in required, as the old bearing was quite pitted- and interestingly, a slightly different design. It had a plastic cog on the base that the new one doesn't have.

This effect that the bearing caused, now makes it hard to check the weight vs the mat on their own to see which is the better of the two.

I was also surprised to see that my Achromat was a little warped, with a definate hump causing the arm to wave as it passes over it. I know that few of my records will be flat, and in fact at one point with a less than perfect album the two together caused the arm to wave up and down continually. Still, it's not ideal.
Summat wrong with that Achromat to be warped. Is it genuine ?
I was staggered when I put the Achromat on as there was such an improvement - but repeat - this was on a MN bearing and Funk firm platter

[Andrei]

I'm not sure what the difference is between a weight and a clamp is, I assume they do the same job but one puts less strain on the bearing I assume. I suppose it also depends if the added weight suits the TT.
I think that keeping the weight to the original Technics spec can only be a good thing - helps the servo do its job I suppose.
The Michell clamp comes with a small felt-like grommet that goes over the spindle before you put on the record. Then you add the clamp. The clamp itself only touches the record around the outer edge of the clamp, as can be seen viewing the clamp from underneath. The idea behind all this rigmarole is to flatten the record as well as couple it to the platter and/or mat.

[Gordon Steadman]

I think that keeping the weight to the original Technics spec can only be a good thing - helps the servo do its job I suppose.
The Michell clamp comes with a small felt-like grommet that goes over the spindle before you put on the record. Then you add the clamp. The clamp itself only touches the record around the outer edge of the clamp, as can be seen viewing the clamp from underneath. The idea behind all this rigmarole is to flatten the record as well as couple it to the platter and/or mat.

Wots all this 'Technics' stuff then?? Alan I and were discussing a proper one:eyebrows: