WTD :- extra-compact floorstanders before I go completely loopy!

[Karma Train]

Hi there,

I've been trying to sort out my meagre system the past few weeks and have done nothing but make matters worse which seems to be a bit of a common theme in my hi-fi adventures over more years than I care to remember.

In brief my set up involves two main sources, my PC via a M Audio 24/96 soundcard and a Primare D20 CDP feeding an Arcam A85 integrated amp and I currently use a pair of Spendor designed Quad 10Ls in the speaker department.

The room I listen in is smallish and a total pig in terms of bass bloom and the most unlikely of speakers can cause horrible peaks around the 73kHz frequency, the Quads don't bother it too much as they're a sealed box design and the other type of speaker which plays nicely in this difficult environment are those which employ a transmission line. I've used Rega Elas and Rega XELs in here with little adverse effect but they are just too flippin' big/tall as I tend to listen slumped on a bean bag as opposed to the more normal sofa orientation adopted by serious audiophiles.

So what I need are some small floorstanders which will work OK in the room and hopefully gel with my A85.

Speakers I've been looking at include....

Neat Motive 2 and SE2
Spendor A3
PMC GB1
Totem Arro
Rega RS3

Another consideration is the treble response. I don't know whether my ears have broken but I'm becoming increasingly sensitive to harsh highs so as well as having a tight, controlled bass response and preferably no rear ports, my ideal speaker would also lean towards warmth/smoothness in the tweeter department, a tall order I know but it's got to be worth a shot.

So does anybody here have anything for sale which might kind of fit the bill or failing that any suggestions of something which might put me out of my misery other than a shotgun :(.

I'm based in Somerset which probably doesn't help matters either. Many thanks for your time and consideration.

Charlie.

[CageyH]

I think that there are still some RS3's in the for sale section.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31478-Rega-RS3-Piano-Black&p=534818#post534818

[Karma Train]

Hi Kevin,
Thanks for the tip, I'd have been really interested in those (they were the right colour too) but I'm sure they've been sold now, the seller mentioned that they had advertised them on other forums and he/she also put them on eBay, the eBay listing was ended as the item was 'no longer available' so my guess is they were eventually snapped up on another forum or sommat. Pity that as they were a really good price as well....ah well.
Thanks again.

[mr sneff]

Charlie, I've no idea what your budget is, but you couldn't get more compact than Role Audio Sampans http://www.audioflair.co.uk/products-page-2/used-loudspeakers/role-audio-sampan-2/ Transmission line speakers, 37" high with a 4"x4" footprint!

[Conan]

Hi
The Rega RS3 are still available.
Send me a PM if interested

[RichB]

+1 for the RS3

I've been using them for the last 2 and half years and they are a joy.

[Karma Train]

Hi
The Rega RS3 are still available.
Send me a PM if interested

Hi Carlos/Conan, thanks for the reply and yes I'm most definitely interested as I'm more than a bit of a Rega fan having had Kytes and Elas in the past and can still claim ownership to a wonderful pair of XELs :) I shall set about composing you a PM but don't expect it to be too coherent as I've been up all flippin' night! Regards Charlie.

[Karma Train]

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread, much appreciated, I did try to procure the Rega RS3s offered by Conan but it turns out they are reserved for another buyer....ah well, and the do say everything happens for a reason and my reason being, I think I've kind of found a very non-hi-fi fix for my problems, albeit on a temporary basis. In truth though I need to take a break from thinking about speakers for a while as I genuinely didn't get any sleep last night from running the pros and cons of various solutions through my knackered brain, but like I said, I did come up with something which kind of works though so I'd better pause here for a while and regroup I think.

If you read my initial post, finding speakers which work in this horrible room has kept me occupied for almost as long as I've been here, the main problem being the chronic bass lift I get at certain frequencies, even the most piddling of small speakers would set it off, consequently, you'd be listening to a bass line which would sound fine until the player hit a bottom D and then that note would jump out at you like a ninja warrior, in truth, the only speakers which don't make that happen for some reason are transmission lines.

So the other week I picked up a pair of Rega XELs which were the flagship speaker for Rega back in the early nineties costing £1100+. They are monstrously huge things and look ridiculous in this room but man, the bass on them is beautiful, deep, tuneful, you can follow everything that's being played and it doesn't even tickle the dodgy 73kHz frequency.
So what's the problem then I hear you say? Don't forget this is me we're talking about here and things very seldom go right for your's truly!

Whilst the bass is spot on, the treble is perpetually bright, too bloody bright and on some female voices you'd swear you could see the paint peeling off the walls.
So I tried them with different amps in an attempt to calm them down a bit, my Quad 34/306-too shrill, I bought a Marantz PM-75-too shrill, I bought an Arcam A85 which is supposedly the warmest thing in the land of warm-too sodding shrill again and it was at that point, in total desperation, I posted on this forum to see what other people had kicking around.
But here's the main point, as I know that virtually every other speaker in the Universe sets my rogue bass frequency off, it therefore seemed pretty stupid to get shot of the one pair of speakers I'd found which didn't have that effect; even if they do tend to peel your flesh at 30 paces.

So in the middle of the night I had my idea, like I said it would make the gathered audiophiles cringe but it does kind of work.
You see I've played in bands most of my life and in those bands I've usually ended up running the PA which of course involves the use of mixers, and what do most mixers have which no self-respecting hi-fi amp would be seen dead sporting? Effective EQ controls that's what.
So I dragged my Yamaha mixer out of the cupboard and wired it up to the Quad 306 power amp, I connected my PC audio to a pair of channels and my XELs to the power amp and low and behold, I am now back in some kind of control, I don't have to touch the bass as it's lovely but when harshness occurs I can just roll the HF off a bit and at least it's listenable again plus it's a really cheap solution which never fails to appeal.
Like I said, tone controls, especially the kind found on a pro mixer would probably bring most forum members out in hives but sometimes extreme measures are called for and this, I feel, was one of those times.
What I really need to look into now are ways of controlling or changing the tweeter in my XELs to make them smoother and a little less ice-picky, but I'll leave that for another day I think.

So thanks for all your help and friendliness, I think I'm going to have a bit of a lie down.

Regards, Charlie.

[twotone]

Hi Charlie, that post above is excellent mate, very well explained and indeed, very well written.

Thanks.

Tony

[icehockeyboy]

Jandl will be proud of you!
Oh, if you don't know much about him, he uses an Equalizer too.

There is another way if you're still in the mood to experiment, and that is to try some Bland N Dull, sorry, Van Den Hul speaker cable. Possibly the CS 122, that may time the problem somewhat.

[Karma Train]

Jandl will be proud of you!
Oh, if you don't know much about him, he uses an Equalizer too.

There is another way if you're still in the mood to experiment, and that is to try some Bland N Dull, sorry, Van Den Hul speaker cable. Possibly the CS 122, that may time the problem somewhat.

Hi Craig,

Many thanks for your suggestion but as you may have gathered from my earlier posts, I'm really not overly endowed with dosh and so shelling out 300 odd quid for what essentially amounts to a couple of lengths of wire really isn't a possibility for me....unfotunately :(
The thing is, I absolutely love these Rega XEL speakers, they handle the bass frequencies with aplomb, it's just these bloody over-enthusiastic tweeters which ruin it for me....always something isn't there?
Even using the graphic on my mixing desk fails to pinpoint the problem area and general treble controls on amplifiers kill the whole top end before they have any effect on the nagging frequency, which I guess leaves me with the options of pro software or hardware equalisers which I don't relish the idea of at all.
I did discover something on t'interweb pertaining to the problem of over zealous tweeters on the XELs, the solution involved changing the capacitors in the crossovers and a bit of electronic jiggery-pokery which scares the life out of me being honest but I'm going to start another thread about this to gather some expert opinions as to the viability of said remedy as I really need to do something before tinnitus sets in!
Thanks again for your post, all contributions gratefully received.

Charlie.

[orbscure]

Charlie... the Rega RS3's are available again, check'em out here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31478-Rega-RS3-Piano-Black&p=552377#post552377) ;)

Pete

[struth]

Hi there,

I've been trying to sort out my meagre system the past few weeks and have done nothing but make matters worse which seems to be a bit of a common theme in my hi-fi adventures over more years than I care to remember.

In brief my set up involves two main sources, my PC via a M Audio 24/96 soundcard and a Primare D20 CDP feeding an Arcam A85 integrated amp and I currently use a pair of Spendor designed Quad 10Ls in the speaker department.

The room I listen in is smallish and a total pig in terms of bass bloom and the most unlikely of speakers can cause horrible peaks around the 73kHz frequency, the Quads don't bother it too much as they're a sealed box design and the other type of speaker which plays nicely in this difficult environment are those which employ a transmission line. I've used Rega Elas and Rega XELs in here with little adverse effect but they are just too flippin' big/tall as I tend to listen slumped on a bean bag as opposed to the more normal sofa orientation adopted by serious audiophiles.

So what I need are some small floorstanders which will work OK in the room and hopefully gel with my A85.

Speakers I've been looking at include....

Neat Motive 2 and SE2
Spendor A3
PMC GB1
Totem Arro
Rega RS3

Another consideration is the treble response. I don't know whether my ears have broken but I'm becoming increasingly sensitive to harsh highs so as well as having a tight, controlled bass response and preferably no rear ports, my ideal speaker would also lean towards warmth/smoothness in the tweeter department, a tall order I know but it's got to be worth a shot.

So does anybody here have anything for sale which might kind of fit the bill or failing that any suggestions of something which might put me out of my misery other than a shotgun :(.

I'm based in Somerset which probably doesn't help matters either. Many thanks for your time and consideration.

Charlie.

Try using a dry natural sponge in your rear port, if that don't sound rude!.
I used it successfully in quad 21 speakers that had a similar problem. I bought a baby natural sponge from Amazon and cut it in 2. Fitted the ports nicely and made a terrifies difference in comparison to the synthetic ones you get with speakers.

[icehockeyboy]

Hi Craig,

Many thanks for your suggestion but as you may have gathered from my earlier posts, I'm really not overly endowed with dosh and so shelling out 300 odd quid for what essentially amounts to a couple of lengths of wire really isn't a possibility for me....unfotunately :(
The thing is, I absolutely love these Rega XEL speakers, they handle the bass frequencies with aplomb, it's just these bloody over-enthusiastic tweeters which ruin it for me....always something isn't there?
Even using the graphic on my mixing desk fails to pinpoint the problem area and general treble controls on amplifiers kill the whole top end before they have any effect on the nagging frequency, which I guess leaves me with the options of pro software or hardware equalisers which I don't relish the idea of at all.
I did discover something on t'interweb pertaining to the problem of over zealous tweeters on the XELs, the solution involved changing the capacitors in the crossovers and a bit of electronic jiggery-pokery which scares the life out of me being honest but I'm going to start another thread about this to gather some expert opinions as to the viability of said remedy as I really need to do something before tinnitus sets in!
Thanks again for your post, all contributions gratefully received.

Charlie.

£300, for some CS 122 speaker wire?

Not in a million years!
What gave you that idea, it's about one tenth of that!

[Karma Train]

£300, for some CS 122 speaker wire?

Not in a million years!
What gave you that idea, it's about one tenth of that!

I guess I got that idea from a whole series of listings on FeePay similar to the one below, or am I barking up the wrong bush? :scratch:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Den-Hul-CS-122-Hybrid-Speaker-Cable-Terminated-VDH-DIY-Spades-5-0m-Pair-/291128845250?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Ca bles_Adapters&hash=item43c8a1a3c2

[Karma Train]

Charlie... the Rega RS3's are available again, check'em out here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31478-Rega-RS3-Piano-Black&p=552377#post552377) ;)

Pete

Hi Pete, thank you kindly for the heads up, I've since spoken to the seller of the RS3s
and after a lengthy conversation we came to the mutual decision that they probably
wouldn't be the best option considering my problems with bass-lift etc.
Many thanks for giving me a shout though :)

[icehockeyboy]

I guess I got that idea from a whole series of listings on FeePay similar to the one below, or am I barking up the wrong bush? :scratch:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Den-Hul-CS-122-Hybrid-Speaker-Cable-Terminated-VDH-DIY-Spades-5-0m-Pair-/291128845250?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Ca bles_Adapters&hash=item43c8a1a3c2

A quick Google will bring up much lower prices, and if you are happy without them being terminated,even lower.

Bear in mind the set you link to are 5m in length....do you need that?

[Karma Train]

A quick Google will bring up much lower prices, and if you are happy without them being terminated,even lower.

Bear in mind the set you link to are 5m in length....do you need that?

I do indeed need one length to be 5m long and as it's not recommended to use uneven runs of cable, I guess that listing is somewhat representative.
I'm afraid also that my faith in using cables to change the sound of hi-fi units is minimal to say the least and with the exception possibly of QED silver anniversary
I've never really heard any speaker cable making a profound difference to anything if I'm being honest.
I've been running another thread asking for advice on reducing the shrillness of my Rega XEL speakers and that has pretty much drawn a blank, so I guess I'd
better start looking for some speakers which simply 'work' in this horrible room and forget about trying to save the XELs, the words flogging and dead horse are
springing to mind here. Thanks for all your input though, it really is greatly appreciated.

[icehockeyboy]

I do indeed need one length to be 5m long and as it's not recommended to use uneven runs of cable, I guess that listing is somewhat representative.
I'm afraid also that my faith in using cables to change the sound of hi-fi units is minimal to say the least and with the exception possibly of QED silver anniversary
I've never really heard any speaker cable making a profound difference to anything if I'm being honest.
I've been running another thread asking for advice on reducing the shrillness of my Rega XEL speakers and that has pretty much drawn a blank, so I guess I'd
better start looking for some speakers which simply 'work' in this horrible room and forget about trying to save the XELs, the words flogging and dead horse are
springing to mind here. Thanks for all your input though, it really is greatly appreciated.

Well you can forget about needing equal lengths of cable.
General consensus around here is that it makes not one jot if difference, as long as we aren't talking mega lengths.

I have used odd lengths, no difference at all!

[droom]

ART Stilettos in cherry. Excellent condition £400 collected

[Karma Train]

ART Stilettos in cherry. Excellent condition £400 collected

Hi David, sorry for the late reply, I thought this thread was dead and buried ages ago so I was most surprised to see your post when I logged in just now, thanks for making it!
I'm still in the market for some very compact floor-standers but my requirements have changed somewhat, I'm now specifically looking for some which have a soft/warm/slightly rolled off high frequency response having had a belly-full of strident highs and sibilance recently.

Speakers I'm currently on the lookout for include....

Spendor A3
Ruark Templar Mk1
Castle Pembroke floor-standers

They are all very small floor-standers with a slightly recessed top end and an overriding warm sound. From what I read about the Arts, the treble can be really bright at times and that's really the opposite of what I'm after right now, added to which, I live in Somerset so I think the journey to collect would be a bit beyond me currently.

Im sure there was someone looking for a pair of cherry Stilettos just recently, either on AOS or over at the WAM, unless that was you of course?

Thanks again for the offer, I really do appreciate your contribution and I'm sorry to have to pass.

Regards,

Charlie.

PS:- I just checked over at the WAM and it was you who was looking for a pair of Stilettos, so I guess you found some and didn't get along with them too well, flippin' nightmare this speaker business sometimes isn't it? :(

[Macca]

Hi Charlie

You seem to have tried quite a few amp/speaker combos always with the same results. I'm just thinking that with regard to the piercing highs are you sure it is the speakers at fault?

Unlikely to be the amp(s) too so what speaker cable are you using, it is not QED Silver Anniversary by any chance? What about the interconnects?

Re-Ruark Templar - great small speaker but I would not describe the top end as rolled off or recessed in fact I think they verge on the side of bright, but not in a bad way.

[MikeMusic]

Mains, cheap, easy fixes - could be very important and easy to fix !
I bring this up because I had a very similar problem after moving house, even considered giving up my beloved Isobariks - heresy !
The bass was awful from LP12, Naim 32.5, HiCap and 2 x 135s into the Isos
I already knew I should be running from dedicated, unswtiched sockets but had forgotten.
Sparky in to remedy an electrical fault and while he was there...
Out with one switched double socket and 2 lots of 4 way adaptors
In with 4 unswitched sockets
Wonderful
Bob the sparky also found the earth was almost blowing in the wind.
Firmly seated that and another improvement

[Karma Train]

Hi Charlie

You seem to have tried quite a few amp/speaker combos always with the same results. I'm just thinking that with regard to the piercing highs are you sure it is the speakers at fault?

Unlikely to be the amp(s) too so what speaker cable are you using, it is not QED Silver Anniversary by any chance? What about the interconnects?

Re-Ruark Templar - great small speaker but I would not describe the top end as rolled off or recessed in fact I think they verge on the side of bright, but not in a bad way.

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the tip on the Templars, something to definitely be aware of.
Regarding the wire questions, I'm afraid to say that I'm a bit of a heathen in that regard, I may have totally cloth ears but in all truth I can hardly ever hear any difference when I've swapped them around in the past, the only notable exception being QED Silver Anniversary which I did try once back in the dim and distant and hated what it did almost instantly, shrill, horrible nasty stuff which should only ever be used if both of your tweeters have blown! So no, I'm definitely not using that, my current speaker wire is some stiff black copper stuff with Naim Audio written on it, not sure what model as it doesn't say, previously used some old flat Rega copper wire, but as I said, I can't hear a blind bit of difference when I swap them around. Interconnects are currently Chord Chrysalis.

At the moment I've reverted to my little Spendor built Quad 77 10L stand mounts on the end of my Quad 34/306 and they're quite listenable being honest, I'd just like to use similar sounding baby floor-standers if such a thing exists. The highs were indeed piercing on the Rega XELs and the Rega Elas I still have clogging up the living room but to be more precise, the main thing that hurts my ears on everything I've tried recently is just sibilance on voices, instrumental music is fine on everything I've hooked up over the past few weeks, it's just the essssssing I can't stand particularly on female voices. I've read about other people becoming hyper-sensitive to sibilance and hearing it everywhere they go and in all truth I think that's what's probably happened to me, I can be a bit obsessive if I set my mind to it :mental:

Charlie.

[Karma Train]

Mains, cheap, easy fixes - could be very important and easy to fix !
I bring this up because I had a very similar problem after moving house, even considered giving up my beloved Isobariks - heresy !
The bass was awful from LP12, Naim 32.5, HiCap and 2 x 135s into the Isos
I already knew I should be running from dedicated, unswtiched sockets but had forgotten.
Sparky in to remedy an electrical fault and while he was there...
Out with one switched double socket and 2 lots of 4 way adaptors
In with 4 unswitched sockets
Wonderful
Bob the sparky also found the earth was almost blowing in the wind.
Firmly seated that and another improvement

Thanks for that tip Mike, my main problem is that I'm exceedingly poor, every time one bit of gear comes through the door an existing bit of kit has to leave in order to cover the cost, getting good sound on a budget is never an easy task to accomplish.
You have definitely given me some food for thought there though. As I explained to Martin above, all instrumental music is pretty much OK on everything I've hooked up recently, it's just the thinness and espesssshhhially the sibilance on voices which is driving me nuts. I've tried using some resistors across the tweeters on every speaker I currently have in the house but to be honest, I didn't notice much if anything in the way of improvement with that particular fix. As I said previously, I think I might have become totally fixated on the sibilance issue and now that's pretty much all I hear.
I will definitely look into the unswitched dedicated sockets idea, although I'm perpetually skint, I do know a lad who might be able to do something for me in that regard.
Looking around, the wiring in this room does all seem to be switched boxes on the wall linked up to other switched boxes on the wall linked up to God only knows (the guy who lived here before me was a bit of a handyman, or at least he thought he was....sigh!).
So if I read you correctly, what I would need would be some unswitched sockets linked as directly and as purely to the mains as possible with a solid earth, is that correct?
Thanks again for your words of wisom, much appreciated.

Charlie.

[Macca]

Well I would look to the cables and then, if that doesn't work, the sources. Cables are a total black art even in 2014, sometimes it makes no difference to change them sometimes it makes a big difference. I would suggest trying some different speaker cable first. Nothing expensive, obviously. Someone here may be able to recommend a 'smooth sounding' speaker cable that is suitable for what you are trying to achieve.

I take your point about becoming over-sensitised to sibilance but I think you deffo have an issue with the system here and not with your brain ;)

[Karma Train]

I think you deffo have an issue with the system here and not with your brain ;)

Comments like that make me well up and get all emotional as they are in direct conflict with everything everyone else has been telling me for the majority of my life....thanks. :D

[twotone]

I'm a total cynic with Hi-i but there is absolutely no question that a new tonearm cable I installed sounded completely different (much more bassy) from the previous one which had a faulty plug.

[Karma Train]

I'm a total cynic with Hi-i but there is absolutely no question that a new tonearm cable I installed sounded completely different (much more bassy) from the previous one which had a faulty plug.

I'm really glad you had a result there Tony, not doubting you for a second but a faulty plug on the end of anything would cause sonic anomalies I would have thought. I totally struggle with the idea that speaker cable makes much of a difference though, I've just never heard it if it does (apart from QED Silver Anniversary of course which is essentially the spawn of the Devil!) Good quality copper wire no matter what manufacturer all sounds the same to me but then I did play in bands most of my life, so I'm moderately surprised that I've got any hearing left! I always hark back to Tannoys, the most expensive and desirable (affordable) speaker on the planet in real world terms and how the company recommendation for connecting them was common or garden bell wire. Ok, so that makes me a proper heathen I guess but one can only ever speak from experience can't one?
The biggest difference I've ever made to any system is by changing the speakers, I absolutely HATE sibilance, so I want to find some small floor-standers which are the least prone to it, that shouldn't be asking the world really should it? Fine tuning a system with cables and power-conditioners etc is all well and good once you have the basic components almost to your liking, sadly I'm a million miles away from that currently.
I'm getting close to the point of thinking....sod it, I'll go and get a pair of ESL57s (even though they would be entirely unsuitable for this room) simply for the fact that I know what they can do and spitty/hissy vocals is most definitely not one of them. Either that or a decent pair of headphones! :(

Charlie.

Charlie.

[Macca]

No competently designed speaker is prone to sibilance so you could go on searching forever if it is not the speaker that is the problem and it is very unlikely to be. I've only ever head a problem with sibilance once in twenty odd years and dozens of different set-ups but I am damned if I can remember what the cause was or how I solved it. I'm thinking it was the interconnects in the end but it's all a bit hazy.

If we agree that the source, amp and speakers are blameless - and they would seem to be - that only leaves cables and interconnects to go at.

[twotone]

I'm really glad you had a result there Tony, not doubting you for a second but a faulty plug on the end of anything would cause sonic anomalies I would have thought. I totally struggle with the idea that speaker cable makes much of a difference though, I've just never heard it if it does (apart from QED Silver Anniversary of course which is essentially the spawn of the Devil!) Good quality copper wire no matter what manufacturer all sounds the same to me but then I did play in bands most of my life, so I'm moderately surprised that I've got any hearing left! I always hark back to Tannoys, the most expensive and desirable (affordable) speaker on the planet in real world terms and how the company recommendation for connecting them was common or garden bell wire. Ok, so that makes me a proper heathen I guess but one can only ever speak from experience can't one?
The biggest difference I've ever made to any system is by changing the speakers, I absolutely HATE sibilance, so I want to find some small floor-standers which are the least prone to it, that shouldn't be asking the world really should it? Fine tuning a system with cables and power-conditioners etc is all well and good once you have the basic components almost to your liking, sadly I'm a million miles away from that currently.
I'm getting close to the point of thinking....sod it, I'll go and get a pair of ESL57s (even though they would be entirely unsuitable for this room) simply for the fact that I know what they can do and spitty/hissy vocals is most definitely not one of them. Either that or a decent pair of headphones! :(

Charlie.

Charlie.

Sorry should have clarified Charlie, the faulty plug tonearm cable when it's connected properly sounds totally different from the newer tonearm cable, the problem I had with the faulty plug cable was that i was losing a channel every now and then and had to wiggle the plug to get the two speakers working when playing a record.

I've actually been looking for a reasonably priced five pin din plug for the cable to try it again as I much preferred that cable to the 'bassy' cable.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Karma Train]

No competently designed speaker is prone to sibilance so you could go on searching forever if it is not the speaker that is the problem and it is very unlikely to be. I've only ever head a problem with sibilance once in twenty odd years and dozens of different set-ups but I am damned if I can remember what the cause was or how I solved it. I'm thinking it was the interconnects in the end but it's all a bit hazy.

If we agree that the source, amp and speakers are blameless - and they would seem to be - that only leaves cables and interconnects to go at.

Well, over the course of this experiment I have swapped amplifiers between, Rega Brio Mk1, Arcam A85 and Quad 34/306, I have swapped sources between PC playing FLAC files and Primare D20 CD player both going through a Beresford Caiman with Gator board and alternatively going direct to the amp via analogue outs, I have swapped speakers between Rega XELs, Rega Ela Mk2s and Quad 10Ls and on these speakers I've tried them all with and without 47ohm resistors across the tweeters, I've swapped speaker cables between Naim, Rega and no-name budget stuff, all copper stranded and I've swapped interconnects between Chord Chrysalis and a variety of other slightly less salubrious examples....none of the above has made any discernible difference to my sibilance issues. The room although pretty crappy for sound in general is well furnished and carpeted with a distinct lack of reflective surfaces so the only conclusion to be drawn is....either my ears or brain or both is/are ferked!

I think I'll look for an appropriately sized stone to crawl under and leave you all in peace, thanks for being there. :(

[Conan]

Charlie
Try some active monitors with room ajustment

[Karma Train]

Charlie
Try some active monitors with room ajustment

Hi Carlos,

I've been thinking the same thing myself actually.
I've been looking at the Dynaudio XEO 3 and although they are stand mounts (which I'm not a huge fan of) they seem very promising,
however they have no room correction nor headphone access, the room correction would have to be done via separate software
and a measuring microphone which I'd quite like to avoid if possible.

I've been looking at the Adams and similar but I fear that speakers aimed at studio monitoring would all be voiced on the over-analytical side hence even more pronounced high frequencies.

Do you know of any models you could suggest which might fit the bill?

Definitely think that actives would/should deal with a lot of the mixing/matching problems I seem beset with right now.

Charlie.

[Conan]

Adam artist 5. Domestic actives

[Macca]

Well, over the course of this experiment I have swapped amplifiers between, Rega Brio Mk1, Arcam A85 and Quad 34/306, I have swapped sources between PC playing FLAC files and Primare D20 CD player both going through a Beresford Caiman with Gator board and alternatively going direct to the amp via analogue outs, I have swapped speakers between Rega XELs, Rega Ela Mk2s and Quad 10Ls and on these speakers I've tried them all with and without 47ohm resistors across the tweeters, I've swapped speaker cables between Naim, Rega and no-name budget stuff, all copper stranded and I've swapped interconnects between Chord Chrysalis and a variety of other slightly less salubrious examples....none of the above has made any discernible difference to my sibilance issues. The room although pretty crappy for sound in general is well furnished and carpeted with a distinct lack of reflective surfaces so the only conclusion to be drawn is....either my ears or brain or both is/are ferked!

I think I'll look for an appropriately sized stone to crawl under and leave you all in peace, thanks for being there. :(

Okay had a think about this. All the speakers are two way designs? So get a three-way where there is no crossover slap in the middle of the vocals. That sibiliance will be largely from the mid-bass driver, tweeters don't contribute that much and sometimes people go for a while without noticing they have blown or are not connected. Done it meself. You know something is wrong but you can't quite pinpoint it.

[Karma Train]

Okay had a think about this. All the speakers are two way designs? So get a three-way where there is no crossover slap in the middle of the vocals. That sibiliance will be largely from the mid-bass driver, tweeters don't contribute that much and sometimes people go for a while without noticing they have blown or are not connected. Done it meself. You know something is wrong but you can't quite pinpoint it.

Bless you for having a think about my situation Martin, I really do appreciate that, I honestly do.
Actually the Rega XELs are a three way design and they were the worst of the lot for sibilance and general thinness,
hi-fi....it's enough to make you want to go out and punch the next passer-by sometimes isn't it?

On a different tack, since your earlier post I have been having a serious look at the Adam ARTist series and in particular the ARTist6 compact floorstanders.
They have bass shelving eq, treble shelving eq plus a tweeter level control on the back, the rear firing ports bother me a bit but they can be placed close to a rear wall according to Adam and with all those eq options it must be possible to get them sounding reasonably OK I would have thought.

Have also been looking at the Audiolab 8200 CDQ which when combined with the ARTist6 would make a great and simple system I reckon, in fact that was the pairing one of the online reviews used to test the speakers and he was full of praise for them making special mention of the tweeter which under no amount of pressure ever became at all harsh....(he said!)

Thomann are currently offering the ARTist6 in black for a fraction over £800 a pair and of course they also offer a no questions asked 30 day returns option, so I really do think this might be an avenue I could contemplate going down.

I am absolutely pig-sick of box swapping when all I really want to do is enjoy some music before I pop me clogs, I have got a roomful of gear here I could sell which would just about cover the cost of the ARTist6 and an Audiolab 8200CDQ and with those three units I might just possibly be able to listen to Shawn Colvin again....oh how I've missssssssssssed her!

What do you reckon, a good idea or have I lost me marbles....again?

Thanks again for thinking about my problem, you really are very kind.

Charlie.

PS:- Why oh why does this flippin' site keep logging you out after about 10 minutes? I've lost count of the number of times I've lost posts half way through writing them when I've forgotten about this little idiosyncrasy :steam:

[Macca]

Tick the 'keep me logged in' box

I would say go for it with the new speakers - 30 day home trial should be plenty of time to see if they suit. As you say if you enjoy your music then life is too short to compromise.

[MikeMusic]

my main problem is that I'm exceedingly poor

I will definitely look into the unswitched dedicated sockets idea, although I'm perpetually skint, I do know a lad who might be able to do something for me in that regard.
Looking around, the wiring in this room does all seem to be switched boxes on the wall linked up to other switched boxes on the wall linked up to God only knows (the guy who lived here before me was a bit of a handyman, or at least he thought he was....sigh!).
So if I read you correctly, what I would need would be some unswitched sockets linked as directly and as purely to the mains as possible with a solid earth, is that correct?



Should be a cheap fix. Might even be just some time.
Sounds like a dogs dinner. If Mr.Handyman bodged the electrics you might even have a safety problem which would be good to be looked at.

I thought my problem was room and or speaker based before sorting the mains.
Recommend a sparky looks at it unless you can easily see something is broken and easily fixed - and won't kill anyone !
Find where your earth is and check it is bonded and firmly in the ground.
Best would be to find a sparky mate, replace the main socket/s for the hifi and run directly back to the panel.
This may not be the answer but it could solve the problem, make the sound better than expected and be safe !

[Karma Train]

Tick the 'keep me logged in' box

I would say go for it with the new speakers - 30 day home trial should be plenty of time to see if they suit. As you say if you enjoy your music then life is too short to compromise.

Well now I've been and gone and done it....a pair of Adam ARTist 6 floor-standers just ordered direct from Adam Audio on a sale or return basis for slightly less than they were being offered for by Thomann, they should be arriving on Friday and I'm genuinely excited, I expect they'll sound terrible but what's life without a little hope?

This is all your fault, you do realise that don't you?

Please God let me have found a solution to the endless mixing and matching, much more of it and I really will go completely bonkers!

I shall report again when I've given them the once over :)

Thanks again for the suggestion.

Charlie.

http://www.adam-audio.com/files/images/speakers/gallery/ARTIST6.jpg

[Karma Train]

Should be a cheap fix. Might even be just some time.
Sounds like a dogs dinner. If Mr.Handyman bodged the electrics you might even have a safety problem which would be good to be looked at.

I thought my problem was room and or speaker based before sorting the mains.
Recommend a sparky looks at it unless you can easily see something is broken and easily fixed - and won't kill anyone !
Find where your earth is and check it is bonded and firmly in the ground.
Best would be to find a sparky mate, replace the main socket/s for the hifi and run directly back to the panel.
This may not be the answer but it could solve the problem, make the sound better than expected and be safe !

Absolutely, positively on my things to do list :)

A year or so after I moved in this place I discovered much to my alarm that the previous inhabitant at some point had moved the kitchen door about 6 feet to the left. In order to accomplish this task he knocked a window out and all the wall underneath the window which just so happened to be supporting the house.

Having relocated the door to its new position, he must've then decided that in fact he preferred it where it originally was and so moved it back to where it came from in the first place.

He knocked up a makeshift window which was a lot smaller than the original to throw in the hole and covered up the missing supporting wall with plasterboard, thus leaving the whole side of the house in a state of imminent collapse.

Soooooooooo - if his electrical work is of a similar standard we should be in for quite a few 'shocks' when we start unravelling it all....if you don't hear from me again I've probably gone up in smoke :eek:

[MikeMusic]

Ouch

Very best of luck

Do you have any mates in relevant trades, like structural engineer - or even a competent builder ?