View Full Version : One of those teaser threads
Gordon Steadman
12-05-2014, 14:05
Don't you just hate it when two big parcels arrive, you know what's in them but you also know that you won't be getting whats inside the boxes out for ages!!!:steam:
These two arrived this afternoon from Germany. They are heavy, incredibly well packed and contain.....stuff!!
Trouble is, I just got back from having an x-ray on my back. I have an MRI booked for next week and will probably have to have another operation shortly thereafter. I'm not allowed to lift stuff. When these (whatever they are) are finished, they will weigh about 50kilos each.
If I try and start, my wife will kill me and so will the surgeon - I might be able to manage one or the other:)
So, I'm like a kid the night before Christmas and I just have to look at these damn great boxes for a while longer. Rats.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2921/14169217535_f554851742_o.jpg
Cut the boxes open from the base! No lifting then involved other than of the box itself..
So... this is the DIY section. What DIY stuff can come in such large boxes? Cases for a project?
Gordon Steadman
17-05-2014, 19:41
Cut the boxes open from the base! No lifting then involved other than of the box itself..
So... this is the DIY section. What DIY stuff can come in such large boxes? Cases for a project?
That would be quite big cases. The boxes are 900 x 600 x 400mm.
I'm a woodworker so I do the boxes!!
Each box contains eight working parts plus some electrickery and some wires - probably ever such esoteric metal something or other covered in plastic to stop all the inside bits touching each other. Forgive the technical explanation.
Sheesh Gordon, don't keep us in suspense. What is in them?
Firebottle
17-05-2014, 19:47
I know..I know...
...but I'm not telling :ner:
What is this? Some French conspiracy?
Gordon Steadman
17-05-2014, 20:04
I know..I know...
...but I'm not telling :ner:
What a tease you are!!
Anyway, I couldn't resist having a look inside tonight and here is a pic to remove your suspenders.
This will be the second pair of these that I'm gonna make. This pair is for ME ME ME. Particularly interesting as they use 'passive' drivers in a way I've never seen before. I know all about ABRs but these are wired in and you can choose the value of resistance that is put across them to vary the bass damping. I assume it uses back EMF in some way to hold the coils rather like the brakes on a slot racing car.
Each cabinet has 4 active and four passive drivers. To buy, they cost €3000 a pair!! I have obviously heard the first pair I made and they were very impressive indeed. It will be interesting to be able to listen to them long term.
I have to say that I am not paying that much as this DIY edition was only released for a competition in Germany. The company is being nice to me as they were impressed with the job I did on the first pair:cool: I expect they had a few sets left over!!
When I can finally start this build, I'll put a few pics up here showing progress. Might be some time. Rather depends on the result of the MRI next week.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2920/14207440875_6d1de2abdb_o.jpg
Ah, so you will be making a pair of speakers. Have they been reviewed?
And don't forget to put a few pics up as you go.
PS G'luck with mri
Gordon Steadman
17-05-2014, 20:23
Ah, so you will be making a pair of speakers. Have they been reviewed?
And don't forget to put a few pics up as you go.
PS G'luck with mri
I haven't seen any reviews. The company is a direct seller in Germany. However, the first pair will feature in a review in the not too distant future I believe, so I won't jump the gun and name the company yet.
Thanks for the good wishes. Can't say I'm looking forward to it as, in order to see the bits they need to look at, they have me playing twister in the machine and it bloody hurts. The x-ray was bad enough but that takes a couple of seconds.
Well done Gordon, that's quite a result!
What are the active drivers...SEAS?
Gordon Steadman
18-05-2014, 20:14
Well done Gordon, that's quite a result!
What are the active drivers...SEAS?
No. The company make make their own drivers. Each unit weighs a ton and seem very well put together. The mid has a concave dome and what appears to be a very small magnet but it certainly sounded good.
You'd love the crossover:eyebrows:. Loads of electrickery bits. There are two separate boards, one for the treble and mid and another for the bass PLUS the input board has big resistors on it to vary the bass balance!!
When I start the build, I'll put up some shots of the units too.
No. The company make make their own drivers. Each unit weighs a ton and seem very well put together. The mid has a concave dome and what appears to be a very small magnet but it certainly sounded good.
You'd love the crossover:eyebrows:. Loads of electrickery bits. There are two separate boards, one for the treble and mid and another for the bass PLUS the input board has big resistors on it to vary the bass balance!!
When I start the build, I'll put up some shots of the units too.
:popcorn:
Gordon Steadman
22-05-2014, 16:18
I'm off to see my back surgeon on Monday and his clinic just happens to be a few hundred metres from the place that I get my MDF :eyebrows:
So, as it seems likely, that if I can persuade my wife that my continued good health will depend on my happiness and that happiness would be increased dramatically if I can build some speakers, I will be filling up the car with some suitable pieces of 22mm:)
In order to show her how needy I am, I got the units out of one of the boxes so I could look at them longingly over the weekend.
These are the units from one loudspeaker. I'm interested in these as they are totally the opposite sort of thing to anything I've done before (apart from the first pair of them I made, obviously) My usual approach is as simple as possible, minimum crossover and no wadding, wide baffles. These have the lot and are tall and thin to boot.
Roll on monday.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2933/14058720639_1734172078_o.jpg
Gordon Steadman
22-05-2014, 16:23
This is what you get. The units and this simple little drawing.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2936/14222287766_1d72f38629_o.jpg
walpurgis
22-05-2014, 17:56
Those are certainly nice looking units Gordon. The bass drivers are reminiscent of Sonus Faber speakers.
I'll look forward to seeing how you get on with this project. Bet they'll sound interesting.
Now don't go straining that back humping your MDF about! :)
Gordon Steadman
22-05-2014, 18:23
Now don't go straining that back humping your MDF about! :)
I'll do my best. My wife has muscles developed from gardening so I may be feeling a bit weak on Monday:eyebrows:
The company that makes these things is called Teufel. I'd never heard of them before but they seem well established in Germany. This model retailed at €3000 as I said earlier but I understand that they are going to be marketing them as a DIY product including an unfinished cabinet at some time in the future, for around half the previous retail.
I have to do a bit of work though.
I am modifying the design very slightly this time round. I always felt that the tweeter was a bit close to the top edge with likely refraction problems so I'm going to extend that up by one thickness of MDF plus add a couple more intermediate shelves - drilled out - to damp the sides a little more. By not insetting the back panel so far, as I don't intend to have grilles on these, the internal dimensions remain the same. I have no intension of mucking about with crossovers.
Gordon, this looks as juicy as a very juicy thing that's just been through Juce McJuces ultra juicy blender. Do you have any options with bi-wire / single-wire?
Gordon Steadman
23-05-2014, 07:38
Gordon, this looks as juicy as a very juicy thing that's just been through Juce McJuces ultra juicy blender. Do you have any options with bi-wire / single-wire?
'ello Blackadder,
Possibly!! But I don't really fancy playing with the crossovers as they look very electrickery to me. I'm not really into that sort of stuff anyway, bung on a bit of bell wire and Bob's yer aunty, that's me:lol:
Gordon Steadman
26-05-2014, 17:04
For a nice change, today was good. The back surgeon has given me the all clear as the scans show the spine is stable. He did say I have to start acting my age though or it might not stay that way!!:(
Got some MDF on the way home and sliced.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2899/14089052518_a641a164c5_o.jpg
Quick mark up to see where everything is going to go and tomorrow may well see a bit of woodwork going on:yay:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2905/14089062819_c19a724353_o.jpg
Firebottle
26-05-2014, 17:17
Great stuff Gordon, looking forward to the build thread.......
.......and hearing them next time we are down ;)
Cheers, alan
I am also interested to see how these turn out. I bet they will oust your dusty old ESLs, Gordon ;)
Looking forward to this - I love 'build threads'
Gordon Steadman
26-05-2014, 18:51
I am also interested to see how these turn out. I bet they will oust your dusty old ESLs, Gordon ;)
Ho ho and how double dare you?? Dusty indeed, the only dusty thing round here is my head....well, maybe the workshop and that opens into the utility room so that might be a little bit dusty and I suppose the dust might carry a bit.....
If you follow the link to my website and thence to Flickr, you will see a white pair of speakers. Thats the first pair I made. This set will be modified a little, just to hopefully smooth out the treble response and damp the side walls further.
I didn't get to listen at length to the first pair but on short audition, they were very good indeed. However, they will have to go some to oust the 57s and the REL. We'll see how they settle in after a good workout:)
Gordon Steadman
27-05-2014, 15:20
Bit more done.
First thing to do is get the sides cut to shape. Rough cut to line with saw.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5543/14096882820_3d6b250fbb_o.jpg
Then clean up with the router
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/14281472572_76f85176d8_o.jpg
Next rout all the rebates for the tops, bottoms, fronts and backs.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2940/14096882160_31459fe505_o.jpg
Check the fit
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2896/14096834359_5aeb020dbc_o.jpg
Clean the damn workshop. I hate MDF, even with the big extraction system going full blast, the dust still gets over everything.
Enough for today. More playing tomorrow:)
Gordon Steadman
28-05-2014, 16:13
One is a very unhappy bunny. Before I 'retired' I always bought the most expensive tools I could afford and made sure they were professional standard with a continuous use rating.
My Bosch router has just packed up for the second time:steam:. I had to send it back to the UK last time as the French Bosch agents wouldn't touch it because it had a UK plug on it. I couldn't change the plug because it invalidated the guarantee!!!
I still have to do the rebates and holes for the mid and tweeter and down the sides of the backs and fronts as the drivers have flat sides (stupid idea). I have a back up machine but I have to make another circle jig and it won't take the big cutters I want to use on the front edges of the cabinets. Plus my router table is set up for the Bosch.
I hate Bosch.
Anyway, before that happened I did a bit more:
Cut the front and tops to one cabinet and drilled out the upper shelf.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3828/14311803613_a294162c1b_o.jpg
Cut the rebates for the bass units - all 12 of them.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5071/14104931699_537056c89a_o.jpg
The cut out the holes.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3710/14291616355_b92534609b_o.jpg
Looking good Gordon, sorry to hear about your router not surprised
Though as Bosch have been derge for years now , only last week I had a supposed
Pro jigsaw let go after about 30 mins cutting 18mm beech ply just glad it
Wasn't mine;)
Paul
Gordon Steadman
28-05-2014, 18:30
Looking good Gordon, sorry to hear about your router not surprised
Though as Bosch have been derge for years now , only last week I had a supposed
Pro jigsaw let go after about 30 mins cutting 18mm beech ply just glad it
Wasn't mine;)
Paul
Seems typical now. The router is from the Blue Pro range - you pay top money for second class goods it seems.
Gordon Steadman
29-05-2014, 16:15
After spitting tacks all last evening about the router, I felt a bit calmer this morning and decided to take it apart. First thing to test is the motor so put some current between the brushes and whizz:). A good start, so shorted out the switch and whizz again:):). Ignored the wife's suggestion of contact cleaner and considered getting in touch with the Bosch agents for a switch. Changed my mind and gave it a spray. Whizz:):):). It has continued whizzing all afternoon. Good stuff that WD40 (haven't got any proper cleaner)
This meant I could do a bit today.
Routed the sides of the backs and fronts so I can inset some wood for the straight sides of the drivers.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3746/14112389590_1af644da40_o.jpg
All the bits are now cut, just the baffles for the mid/tweeter to rout out.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5591/14275889586_f778d0a037_o.jpg
The baffles duly routed and units test fitted.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2938/14297080902_0cf675aec8_o.jpg
Start a bit of glueing tomorrow!!
Gordon Steadman
30-05-2014, 11:21
I'm glad that most of the MDF cutting is finished. Spend ages getting the dust out of my hair let alone my clothes. Ronnie has been known to raise the occasional objection.
Back to the lathe today. Need to turn some midrange boxes. Only wood of the right size I can find is Walnut!! Fortunately, its not very good and certainly not good enough for 'art'.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3782/14118022137_285c275cdc_o.jpg
Which becomes
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3743/14117900608_913bd935a7_o.jpg
Now then, we 'hexperts' never make mastikes right? My mind was obviously elsewhere yesterday, the rebate for the first tweeter was fine but the jig must have come loose when doing the second and turned out miles too big. I let some veneer into the rebate and it now fits perfectly:). Lets hope its the only deliberate mistake I make.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2902/14281416856_df51be6dbf_o.jpg
Wow Gordon , its not the making mistakes its the ability to correct them that makes you an expert, that and the sheer speed you work at astounding:youtheman: ,and with a back issue as well.
good news about the router ,
cant wait to see them finished, though I suspect it wont be that long a wait:eyebrows:
cheers
Paul
Gordon Steadman
31-05-2014, 16:30
The cabinets are all built and stuck together. Now starts the hard work!! I slapped on some sanding sealer and then undercoat to see if I need to fill anything. Nothing serious, just a couple of small nicks.
I'm going to veneer the sides and spray the back, front and top in black. Haven't decided on gloss or satin yet. Probably gloss and then french polish the sides to a glass like finish. The moulding to the sides is slightly different than designed as it gave no edge to finish the veneer off to.
Need to clean up the cutouts too. Not actually necessary but it will feel better if they are neat.
I found it strange that the kit comes with screws to fix the drivers. OK for the mid and tweeter but I've drilled out and fitted captive nuts for the bass drivers.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5080/14290206396_554703f808_o.jpg
Looking good.
If only I had the skills and equipment...
Gordon Steadman
02-06-2014, 09:45
The problem with aiming for perfection is that you have to shoot straight or something deep and meaningful:scratch:
Anyway, in order to see what the surfaces are going to look like, a quick spray with some left over paint shows how far we have to go. Quite tempted by the blue though:lol:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5274/14141330520_c0c1f609d0_o.jpg
Hopefully, they are looking worse before they get better!!
I'm still undecided about the feet. The orginals have typically boring straight feet just sticking out sideways. They obviously need to be made stable as they are so thin but there has to be a better looking alternative.
The Grand Wazoo
02-06-2014, 20:36
Better looking alternative?
How about a slug of something very, very heavy bolted to the bottom to lower the centre of gravity? That way, you won't need the width so much to attain the stability.
Gordon Steadman
03-06-2014, 07:44
Better looking alternative?
How about a slug of something very, very heavy bolted to the bottom to lower the centre of gravity? That way, you won't need the width so much to attain the stability.
Nice idea. However, these are already heavy buggers and my back says 'no'.
I saw a pair of Harbeths yesterday that just use spike on the bottom of a cabinet this shape. We have four cats though and they tend to arrive on top of speakers at great speed and usually from an oblique angle, usually with another one in hot pursuit. The Quads and the big bedroom speakers survive by having good wide and heavy stands. I feel I need to allow for feline foibles with these too.
I'm veneering the sides at the mo. As you can't get decent contact adhesive over here (all water based not proper Evostick, just doesn't grab properly) I'm using Cascamite and clamping with MDF. Cascamite is good for veneer as it sets incredibly hard and makes working the edges easy without the usual problems with chipping.
So its basically a section a day. Four sides, two sections a side. Not much progress to be seen this week. Once thats done and a finish put on the wood, I can mask up and spray the rest.
Gordon Steadman
03-06-2014, 17:55
Its been a gardening and rendering day today. Managed to pop the second bit of veneer on the first side this morning and habe just trimmed it off and ragged on some sanding sealer.
As these speakers are not allowed to cost anything (almost) I am using veneer I have had stored up in the loft for years. Some sort of sapele by the looks of it. The speakers will probably look like a piece of MFI furniture:eek:
Hopefully, the contrast with the black will make them look OK.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3869/14152406349_bda7f737da_o.jpg
Just need to get a proper sealing coat on and then its side number two.
Firebottle
03-06-2014, 18:57
I think they are looking fabulous so far Gordon, much better than the all white first pair :)
:cool: Alan
Gordon Steadman
03-06-2014, 19:15
I think they are looking fabulous so far Gordon, much better than the all white first pair :)
:cool: Alan
Thanks Alan,
In fairness, the first pair were made to a price and the finish was just white gloss slapped on by hand hurriedly to finish them to a deadline. I have the luxury of taking my time with these.
Ronnie looked at them tonight and said "very nice, when are you going to start making some proper furniture for us?" She's been nagxxxx.... trying to encourage me, to make an antique bed for some time:rolleyes:
But if you are to make the bed soon, how can it be antique? :scratch:
Gordon Steadman
03-06-2014, 19:33
But if you are to make the bed soon, how can it be antique? :scratch:
Ah well you see.................
...when I first came out here, it was to work for an antiques dealer repairing and restoring furniture. If he didn't have something a client really, really wanted.................I used to play darts for my employers in the UK and the skills learnt there came in very handy for putting random worm holes in walnut:eyebrows:
Next time I'll remember to put the '...'s in 'antique'.
PS I should point out that, as far as I'm aware, my work was never actually passed off as a genuine antique. Only as far as I know though, as the guy is a dealer through and through.
I still do the odd bit of work for him, fixed a chair last week that someone had shortened a little bit. Really nice chair just hacked down so a kid could reach the seat:eek:
Gordon Steadman
04-06-2014, 07:26
I know just how Hugh Grant felt:(
As the first side of veneer went to plan, I popped up into the loft to get some more .............
.......as expected, there was a great pile of the stuff. Grabbed a few sheets, bought it out into the light and "oh sh*t". Its different. Instead of the straight grained stuff, its got an interesting flame. Its also not quite so flat which will make sticking just with clamps rather than contact adhesive more interesting.
So I'm doing test glue ups with the sapele and also with some light wood that looks like sycamore but its very thin and wavy - might need evostick. The lighter might look nice against the black.
The problem is the first bit I did of course. Using a thin veneer means I could get away with just gluing it over the existing. If I use the thicker stuff, it will look obviously thicker than the other sides. Getting the first lot off is going to be fun as the cascamite is so hard. It might have to be the belt sander but that is a bitch to control at the edges and I don't want to spoil the crispness.
Problems problems. We'll see how the glue up is later.
awkwardbydesign
04-06-2014, 08:20
Definitely bugger! Being a bad person, I'm kind of relieved that I am not alone in having veneer problems. Cascamite is not something you can just strip off, is it? It's so long since I veneered anything large, that I had kind of forgotten how to do it! Evostick may not be perfect, but at least I can cope with it.
I hope you don't have to do too much extra work, as it was looking good.
Gordon Steadman
04-06-2014, 10:32
Definitely bugger! Being a bad person, I'm kind of relieved that I am not alone in having veneer problems. Cascamite is not something you can just strip off, is it? It's so long since I veneered anything large, that I had kind of forgotten how to do it! Evostick may not be perfect, but at least I can cope with it.
I hope you don't have to do too much extra work, as it was looking good.
Its been going too smoothly!!
As it happens, I just remembered where the veneer came from. The antiques dealer chappy. I'm going over there later to see if he has any of the Sapele left. Fingers crossed because, as you say, Cascamite will need rather more than just a sharp chisel to remove it.
awkwardbydesign
04-06-2014, 12:33
Cascamite will need rather more than just a sharp chisel to remove it.
http://www.agileforall.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/flamethrower-235x300.jpg :lol:
Gordon Steadman
04-06-2014, 13:02
http://www.agileforall.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/flamethrower-235x300.jpg :lol:
Ah, dragon's breath, hadn't thought of that. I'll have a word with my wife!!:eyebrows:
Gordon Steadman
04-06-2014, 18:34
Rats:(
I emailed the antiques man and he said I was welcome to go and get as much veneer as I wanted. So orft we jolly welled.
He was not a happy man. It seems someone cleaned him out. Around £3000 of veneer has been removed from his barn along with a load of oak beams and walnut planks.
This means I am not happy either as it means I have to think again about how to finish off the speakers. We really don't want to spend out on these. Buying 4 metres of decent veneer will require some dosh.
So, whatever happens, I have to strip off the side I've done because I'm not going to be able to match it. This is annoying.
awkwardbydesign
04-06-2014, 19:58
Ouch.
BTW, I just looked through your Flickr pics; very nice, and Back Door #3 is what I want to make for my wife. Or rather for the living room, for my wife! Thanks for the pic.
Gordon Steadman
04-06-2014, 21:05
Ouch.
BTW, I just looked through your Flickr pics; very nice, and Back Door #3 is what I want to make for my wife. Or rather for the living room, for my wife! Thanks for the pic.
Ouch indeed, I'm really going to find it hard taking any tool to it tomorrow. Such is life.
I forget where I nicked the design for the door from. I think the client found it and asked me if I could make one the same. It wasn't too hard but it did have its moments as the oak I had kept splitting like mad, a bit awkward when you are trying match curves. Worked out OK in the end though. I was about to start on the inside of the house when I did my back in. Such is life etc etc.
Gordon Steadman
05-06-2014, 09:04
:(
Blurry 'ell that Cascamite sets hard. A few more days and I hate to think what fun I would have had. Anyway, belt sanded most off and then chiseled the rest off. A few dips but filled and once re-veneered it will all be lovely and flat again.
Note to self: Check stock of veneer BEFORE starting work:mental::doh:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2905/14164378897_698f1fb843_o.jpg
Doesn't that look class?:lol:
Shame, I liked that veneer, it looked really 'Seventies.
Gordon Steadman
05-06-2014, 12:51
Shame, I liked that veneer, it looked really 'Seventies.
Yikes....glad I'm changing it then, I did suggest it might look a bit MFI.
I've found some light veneer with a nice 'bird's eye' grain. Trouble is that its extremely thin and I'm not sure its going to go flat just with clamps. I'll know this evening. If no go, its another removal job and I have the second string '70s' look just in case.
walpurgis
05-06-2014, 16:54
Hi Gordon,
I've always used good old Thixofix for veneering. It works very well on thin veneers and does not need clamping. I just give the work face and the veneer a thin coat and lay on once tacky. Then just rub along the veneer grain surface with moderate pressure using the grain end of a softwood block.
There are cabinets I veneered this way over 25 years ago, still perfectly intact, with no lifting veneer at all.
If you leave the adhesive too long before laying the veneer on and it's got a bit too dry, a hot iron makes the adhesive bond and gets rid of any lifting. Thixofix will work on any dust free surface and does allow a bit of movement to correct veneer positioning.
Gordon Steadman
05-06-2014, 17:35
Hi Gordon,
I've always used good old Thixofix for veneering. It works very well on thin veneers and does not need clamping. I just give the work face and the veneer a thin coat and lay on once tacky. Then just rub along the veneer grain surface with moderate pressure using the grain end of a softwood block.
There are cabinets I veneered this way over 25 years ago, still perfectly intact, with no lifting veneer at all.
If you leave the adhesive too long before laying the veneer on and it's got a bit too dry, a hot iron makes the adhesive bond and gets rid of any lifting. Thixofix will work on any dust free surface and does allow a bit of movement to correct veneer positioning.
Hi Geoff,
I used to use Thixofix but still prefer Evostick which I always use very thin. Naturally, I never place the veneer in the wrong place:eyebrows:
Neither glue is available over here and the water based stuff is rubbish.
Anyway, I am trying to avoid expense with these by using stuff that is already in the workshop. So Cascamite it is!!
Talking of which, I am feeling a bit better now as the first trial of another veneer has turned out OK. I think the contrast with the black will be striking.
Sorry its not so 70s now Macca:)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3884/14166887290_5e5a1c1ed3_o.jpg
walpurgis
05-06-2014, 17:44
That is very attractive veneer.
Looks superb Gordon, the veneer looks expensive and gives the speakers a touch of class.
awkwardbydesign
05-06-2014, 18:51
Looks superb Gordon, the veneer looks expensive and gives the speakers a touch of class.
Are you suggesting they didn't have any class before? :lol:
walpurgis
05-06-2014, 18:53
Are you suggesting they didn't have any class before? :lol:
We were all too kind to say anything Gordon. ;)
No but that birds eye veneer does look the business:)
Firebottle
05-06-2014, 19:13
Birds eye maple?
Looks fabulous,
Alan
Gordon Steadman
05-06-2014, 20:09
Thank you fellas for your kind words:lol:
I think it is maple Alan. I have a whole half tree's worth and all the leaves are matching so it will look pretty good I think. Just hope the other three sides go as well as the first. Then its all systems go. Mask up the wood. Spray it all black and get them working.
What fun:cool:
walpurgis
05-06-2014, 20:16
Well you're on the last leg (or so) Gordon. It'll be nice to see the finished speakers and read your evaluation of them.
Ah, dragon's breath, hadn't thought of that. I'll have a word with my wife!!:eyebrows:
I take it that is how she makes toast. (Not also known as Sybil?)
Gordon Steadman
06-06-2014, 05:21
I take it that is how she makes toast. (Not also known as Sybil?)
I am now toast - she just read this thread:lol:
There is nothing fawlty about her left hook:doh:
Gordon Steadman
08-06-2014, 14:49
I gave the first cabinet a quick spray but I'm far from happy with the finish on the front and top.
So, its another rub down and fill to one small dip and then a hand paint, cut back and polish like wot it should be done.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2939/14351145456_b1b37edb0e_o.jpg
However, you can see what the effect will be. Should look quite smart.
That does look a million dollars but I still preferred the 1972 veneer ;)
Gordon Steadman
08-06-2014, 16:38
That does look a million dollars but I still preferred the 1972 veneer ;)
Hah........:ner: to 1970's
The Grand Wazoo
08-06-2014, 16:53
Is that a set of wedges to keep the drying paint off the workbench Gordon? Or have you settled on your choice of outrigger for feet? If it's the latter, then one of 'em's on the wonk!
That contrast between the veneer and the black looks really nice - good work old bean.
Gordon Steadman
08-06-2014, 17:15
Is that a set of wedges to keep the drying paint off the workbench Gordon? Or have you settled on your choice of outrigger for feet? If it's the latter, then one of 'em's on the wonk!
That contrast between the veneer and the black looks really nice - good work old bean.
:)
They are a test!! The pic doesn't show that the edges are routed and the front ones are actually designed to fit at 30 degrees rather than just the boring straight ones.
Still undecided.
The boxes don't look so good now, a sort of pasty grey. I'm going to build up a good thickness of acrylic undercoat before bunging on ten or twenty thin brush coats of finish. I rather fancied high gloss but Ronnie wants a satin finish on the black. So the sides will definitely be like glass. Its been a long time since I have made a guitar so this will be good practice for 'that' instrument I intend to make afore I go.
Gordon Steadman
09-06-2014, 20:04
Here you go Chris,
I think I will probably go with something very simple like these.
A couple of coats of grey acrylic primer and a rub down has got the surface really smooth so tomorrow, as it was yet another bank holiday out here, I get some black paint and start the fun bit.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2919/14405407143_ff86fdc7c6_o.jpg
Gordon Steadman
10-06-2014, 10:15
Just been looking a bit more at the company that make the drive units for this build.
Interesting machine they seem to be making:eek:
http://blog.teufel.de/news/unterhaltungselektronik/teufel-foerdert-einzigartige-soundmaschinen-ausstellung-booster-mit-25-aureol-massive-kopfhoerern/
Gordon Steadman
13-06-2014, 18:54
Thought I was there this morning but I found a couple of blemishes on the tops - both of them!!! So I'm putting on another five or six coats of varnish and will then cut it back to glorious perfection:lol:
As the rest is done, my usual impatience got the better of me and I put in the crossovers and wires. The big board on the bottom is for the mid and treble and the one on the side is the bass. Wires everywhere inside, will need lots of hot glue to seal various holes and stop any rattles.
Still lots of dust and finger marks and a polish up to do on the back. The veneer is definitely growing on me. In spite of the fact that I have had to brush finish these as the compressor is hors.d'combat, I'm reasonably pleased.
Couple of days should see them up and running.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2903/14412923922_bdddaef4a1_o.jpg
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2929/14410847751_5232398795_o.jpg
Looking very good Gordon. What size are the drive units?
Gordon Steadman
13-06-2014, 21:51
Looking very good Gordon. What size are the drive units?
Hi James,
Thanks.
The bass drivers are 6.5 inches. There are two active and four passive in each speaker. I think I said near the beginning of this thread that they use a system I've never seen before. The passive drivers are variable by choosing a different resistor to control movement. So its anything from the usual ABRs to almost a sealed box effectively. I assume this uses back EMF.
The proof of the pudding will come quite soon now. Hopefully, I can cut the tops back without going through the finish this time so Sunday could see the drivers in place and get them started running in.
Gordon Steadman
15-06-2014, 12:17
OK Last of the before shots.
Tomorrow, its take the gloss off the top with some wire wool and wax and then its fit the units and plug 'em in.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3904/14425572424_d04d8fdd0c_o.jpg
Gordon Steadman
16-06-2014, 08:51
I won't bore you all with any more pics after this. Just the listening impressions to come after they have a few hours on them. Initial low level thoughts are that they seem very well controlled with a good deep bass response. The treble is a little sharp for my tastes but I'm using an A&R amp to run them in and its not exactly subtle.
The drivers are pretty substantial, heavy cast frame and a big strong magnet.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5237/14433169792_53cc746ed2_o.jpg
Reasonably pleased with the appearance.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3926/14433170082_b9b0a3d11f_o.jpg
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2926/14434492925_12f90da48f_o.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/14433170452_1027a70039_o.jpg
I'll be adding some brass spikes to the feet eventually.
PS. At some time, I will have to take them all apart again and spray them properly. This is a quick hand brush job as the compressor is on strike.
I won't bore you all with any more pics after this. Just the listening impressions to come after they have a few hours on them. Initial low level thoughts are that they seem very well controlled with a good deep bass response. The treble is a little sharp for my tastes but I'm using an A&R amp to run them in and its not exactly subtle.
The drivers are pretty substantial, heavy cast frame and a big strong magnet.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5237/14433169792_53cc746ed2_o.jpg
Reasonably pleased with the appearance.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3926/14433170082_b9b0a3d11f_o.jpg
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2926/14434492925_12f90da48f_o.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/14433170452_1027a70039_o.jpg
I'll be adding some brass spikes to the feet eventually.
Gordon does that plant need re potting:lol:
Gordon Steadman
16-06-2014, 09:56
Gordon does that plant need re potting:lol:
No idea:)
I don't do plants, that's down to Ronnie, she is a horticulturist don't ya know? Pot could do with a clean though - must have words ......but then for personal safety issues, it might be a good idea to do it myself:eek:
Gordon Steadman
16-06-2014, 14:22
Ooer,
There was me thinking I was just a jobbing carpenter (still think so really but praise is always welcome!!)
http://www.teufelaudio.com/blog/corporation-news/teufel-returns-roots-diy-loudspeaker-kits/
Praise indeed:
We wouldn’t have given this version to just anyone. Mr. Steadman is a master craftsman with the skills needed to successfully construct an enclosure to the specifications required.
Firebottle
16-06-2014, 14:51
:clapclapclap:
Good one Gordon me old fruit:D
Gordon Steadman
16-06-2014, 14:57
Thanks chaps. Just one more pic, I forgot that the backs are full of drivers too!!
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2896/14436601785_2c84951b39_o.jpg
I bet that makes positioning fun.
Gordon Steadman
16-06-2014, 16:13
I bet that makes positioning fun.
I will no doubt find out!! I'm not playing vinyl until they are run in and then I'll see what feedback is like!!
The Quads don't really do the bass that these do and my subwoofer is well out of the way when they are in use. No matter how these turn out, I can't see any likelihood of them knocking the 57s off their perch. Certainly not in this room anyway. Once the big music room (hall?) is done then they may well find a home. Teufel recommend a minimum of 100watts and they are clearly designed for big German baronial halls. They really seem a bit sharp for anything approaching near field, maybe they will mellow a bit.
The valve amps struggle to chuck 30 out between them. The most powerful amp I have is the MF A100 and that is only 50 watts per channel.
All will be sorted by time - one hopes.
Nice job Gordon and a very unusual design!
Gordon Steadman
17-06-2014, 07:02
Nice job Gordon and a very unusual design!
Thanks Paul,
Unusual indeed, certainly provided some work for the router.
Gordon Steadman
21-06-2014, 08:59
Well, it has been an interesting week.
On Monday I got all the drivers fitted and plugged them into a spare system to run in a bit before turning up the wick. Bit surprised to find they sounded horribly out of balance. No bass at all and a very sharp and thin mid and treble.
Still, thinking that the bass units probably needed loosening up a bit I just left them running for a day or two.
So, day three, sat down for a serious listen. Balance still the same, if enough power went through them to get any decent bass, the top of my head would have exploded if I kept listening to them. The wife said she couldn't stay in the same room with them. Not what I wanted to hear after all the hassle of making the damn things.
Contacted Teufel. Its my fault:doh: I changed the design of the baffle by adding 22mm to the top. This has thrown the whole design out of kilter.Yeah OK:rolleyes:
The design has three passive drivers on the back of course and so it figured that they shouldn't be too close to a wall..........got a bit pissed off and shoved them back almost to the wall and switched to the Quads for some aural relief. Couldn't concentrate on that because these damn speakers were bugging me. Thought I'd add a bit of damping to the mid range and pad down the tweeter with 4ohms.
Whilst thinking about doing it, I switched them on and bunged in a CD. Bloody 'ell....where did that bass come from? Deep tuneful and well controlled and now in balance with the top end which no longer screamed but sounded as close to the Quads as I've heard in a speaker with voice coils. The bass is best with the jumper at the back on position 1 which damps the passives slightly. Without it, the bass is not quite controlled enough for me, plenty of it but fractionally flabby. Listening to Ron Carter, I could hear all the fingerings on his bass and it played real tunes instead of the common dull boomy thuds.
This is a very impressive piece of kit but is unbelievably sensitive to positioning. Move them back out six inches and the bass just disappears again. This never occurred to me as the first pair were listened to just where I was fitting the drivers, which was out in the middle of the room - sounded fine then.
May be a function of the room as well of course. It will be interesting to see how they perform once the big lounge is ready. I can't see them replacing the Quads but for a speaker that, at its full retail price, was about half that of a new pair of Quads, its damned impressive. Worth the effort I reckon.
.
Contacted Teufel. Its my fault:doh: I changed the design of the baffle by adding 22mm to the top. This has thrown the whole design out of kilter.Yeah OK:rolleyes:
.
Is that really what they said? Bizarre.
At least they are working now and I should imagine that in practical reality very few people will complain about a speaker that doesn't like to be positioned in free space.
cool project and fun reading ! i never knew that Teufel offered kits. I have a pair of 200€ Teufels which are not bad for the price. Hope you find the right room for them
Gordon Steadman
21-06-2014, 14:42
cool project and fun reading ! i never knew that Teufel offered kits. I have a pair of 200€ Teufels which are not bad for the price. Hope you find the right room for them
They started out that way in the 70's I understand.
After a few trials with people like me making them up from scratch, they have decided to offer a flatpack cabinet to go with the drivers. Pretty good way of getting something decent for about €1400. They used to retail at €3000 ready made.
I found the build fairly straightforward but then I have the right tools for the job. It did have its challenges though so I think they are sensible to offer the cabinet too.
yep i saw that ! as someone said before, your router must have suffered quite a bit (no pun intended) ;-) great job !!
Gordon Steadman
21-06-2014, 14:54
yep i saw that ! as someone said before, your router must have suffered quite a bit (no pun intended) ;-) great job !!
Thank you.
Sadly, now they are finished its back to climbing scaffolding towers and plastering walls. At least its for the new lounge. The sooner its finished the sooner we can hear how it sounds.
Gordon Steadman
22-06-2014, 17:59
Changed the amplifier from the A&R Arcam Alpha (one of the early and good ones) to the Leak Stereo 20 fed from the passive on the main system so a better CD player and vinyl available.
Suddenly, all the mid range detail is back and what was a bit steely is now just more natural.
So, minimum 100 watts per channel huh??? Probably 8 if I'm lucky. Driven to perfectly adequate volume with the passive at about 12 o'clock. Praps these 'ere valve watts really are different to SS watts:lol:
The speakers are definitely still running in and sounding more natural all the time. Still pretty impressed.
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