View Full Version : New forum missive
Here on The Art of Sound, we actively encourage members to post reviews of any item of audio equipment they feel will be of interest to the membership.
However in any forum review, the author must state at the beginning whether the product(s) concerned have been purchased yet or not (‘purchased’ in that sense means at the end of any trial period. Paying up front for goods, in order to obtain them on loan, does not count as a purchase), and then later update that information accordingly, if or when the product(s) in question have been bought at the end of the initial trial period. This lets everyone know what the score is, in that respect, and enables people to judge reviews posted on that basis.
ALL products discussed or reviewed on the forum MUST be instigated by the user/potential buyer, NOT the seller, and contributed at his or her volition. Therefore in future, there will be no 'premeditated promotional selling' allowed by manufacturers or dealers, such as on the lines of: 'here, try X and let everyone know how wonderful it is'...
There will be no hyping-up of products, secrets or 'mystery wonders'. Prices and full details of products must be provided up front at the start of any review, or when any comments are made about them on the forum. If such information for any reason is unavailable, then comments or reviews must wait, and only be posted when said information becomes available.
This intention of this new ruling is to help protect sellers and buyers of audio-related products from any accusations of impropriety and to provide greater clarity into the purpose behind any reviews. Therefore, I would ask that everyone respects the constructive reasons for introducing these measures and abides by the new ruling.
Thanks in advance, folks!
Marco.
Well I don't intend to abide by these new rulings, because I will take my enthusiasm elsewhere.
I am utterly appalled by the way this entire forum has behaved with regards to me and a ground breaking product in particular. I have been accused of "hyping up" this same product when it needs no hyping up at all - because it speaks for itself, yet you all sploshed out on a hideously sounding cable that will be choking up the classifieds quite soon. Putting £240 plugs on it too?
I have been accused of being a "shill". I don't know of many shills that could survive the onslaught of innuendo and abuse that I have, both directly and subversively and still be unwavering in their enthusiasm. My system sounds great now, so I don't give two hoots about having to shill something as good as this cable is - I am not worthy of that dubious honour anyway.
I have not once encouraged ANYONE in ANY thread that they should try and/or buy one, whereas a genuine shill will harp on about it incessantly, like others on here do, but I see no accusations made at them for their activities.
I am not Mr MCRU's stooge or patsy, deliberately set up to promote this new "wonder cable". It was MY decision alone to post the review of the prototype back in November and again in the "revisited" thread, David Brooks neither asked or insisted I write either missive. You may not like the bloke, but don't blame me or the cable for his previous misdeeds. As I understand it, he too has departed for good, so who is going to be the next fall guy you will all pick on?
My hand went into my own pocket the moment it became available to buy and I made that plainly clear in the November prototype review. It wasn't a "freebie", there wasn't even any discount and none was asked for or offered, so your unspoken assumptions are entirely incorrect. If we are talking about oiling the wheels for posting favourable reviews, then look elsewhere ;)
If this is the way this forum treats someone who is genuinely heartfelt enthusiastic about an innovative ground breaking product with top class performance, you can keep it and this latest faux announcement and recent events stinks of total hypocrisy. Ta ra.
Don't let the door etc etc.
walpurgis
10-05-2014, 21:27
That's a shame. I've enjoyed Frank's input.
Wakefield Turntables
10-05-2014, 21:32
Oh ffs! Just look what a cable discussion does to a perfectly good forum!
Ninanina
10-05-2014, 21:52
Oh ffs! Just look what a cable discussion does to a perfectly good forum!
Yes it's a great shame that a perfectly valid product got such a ridiculous amount of flack .... shame but nothing we can do now
Unfortunately Frank has misinterpreted the new ruling and taken it all WAY too personally (it is aimed at the business practices and products from EVERY registered trader on AoS, not just those in reference to MCRU), so hopefully he will reconsider his position.
Furthermore, some things had become rather lax around here, and certain folk were really taking the piss, so something had to be done about it.
However, why all this gnashing of teeth and tantrums always occurs over something so achingly insignificant as hi-fi wires is one of life's great mysteries and frustrations! :doh:
Marco.
Unfortunately Frank has misinterpreted the new ruling and taken it all WAY too personally (it is aimed at the business practices and products from EVERY registered trader on AoS, not just those in reference to MCRU), so hopefully he will reconsider his position.
Furthermore, some things had become rather lax around here, and certain folk were really taking the piss, so something had to be done about it.
However, why all this gnashing of teeth and tantrums always occurs over something so achingly insignificant as hi-fi wires is one of life's great mysteries and frustrations! :doh:
Marco.
Indeed.
It wasn't just the new missive Marco, it was other things too which we have discussed and now hopefully being resolved.
I must also thank all those that have sent me PMs saying that I would be sorely missed if I departed for good. Can't think why though, as I endlessly talk complete bollix :lol:
brian2957
15-05-2014, 09:11
Aye but it's usually bollix of the sensible sort Frank . Welcome back :)
The way that hi-fi enthusiasts behave with regard to cables is very odd - and therefore interesting. Why it is that cable threads are able to stir up so much emotion? I remember a rep offering me one of the first Furukawa cables to come in to the UK (this was nearly 30 years ago). I remember thinking “why would someone want to spend a load of money on an interconnect?” how wrong I was. Since then the cable industry has become the single most over saturated sector of the hi-fi market and a new 'wonder' cable pops up on a monthly basis. I'm also surprised by the level of importance applied to cables - some seem to consider them as a primary (maybe the primary) component in the whole system!
The way that hi-fi enthusiasts behave with regard to cables is very odd - and therefore interesting. Why it is that cable threads are able to stir up so much emotion? I remember a rep offering me one of the first Furukawa cables to come in to the UK (this was nearly 30 years ago). I remember thinking “why would someone want to spend a load of money on an interconnect?” how wrong I was. Since then the cable industry has become the single most over saturated sector of the hi-fi market and a new 'wonder' cable pops up on a monthly basis. I'm also surprised by the level of importance applied to cables - some seem to consider them as a primary (maybe the primary) component in the whole system!
Cables are the only 'stealth' upgrade available. New boxes will attract the 'how much?!!' question, whereas cables can be snuck in, and no-one else will notice the 'night and day' or 'game-changing' differences, unless you point them out.
Indeed.
It wasn't just the new missive Marco, it was other things too which we have discussed and now hopefully being resolved.
I must also thank all those that have sent me PMs saying that I would be sorely missed if I departed for good. Can't think why though, as I endlessly talk complete bollix :lol:
Yes, but it's full-blown, no holds barred bollix, which is different from the usual half-hearted attempts made by the lightweights on here! :D
Anyway, daftee, welcome back. It was good to chat. Steps have been taken to address the issues we discussed, which should bring back the feel good factor to AoS :)
Marco.
Gordon Steadman
15-05-2014, 11:15
The way that hi-fi enthusiasts behave with regard to cables is very odd - and therefore interesting. Why it is that cable threads are able to stir up so much emotion? I remember a rep offering me one of the first Furukawa cables to come in to the UK (this was nearly 30 years ago). I remember thinking “why would someone want to spend a load of money on an interconnect?” how wrong I was. Since then the cable industry has become the single most over saturated sector of the hi-fi market and a new 'wonder' cable pops up on a monthly basis. I'm also surprised by the level of importance applied to cables - some seem to consider them as a primary (maybe the primary) component in the whole system!
Whereas, when I was introduced to them I could see no reason at all for them at all as my system didn't need any sound shaping.
As you say, the industry is now saturated. The only way to make money seems to be to make them as expensive as possible so that the more you pay, the more its worth.
I have no problem with people hearing what they want. My main objections have been overcome with the toning down now instigated.
walpurgis
16-05-2014, 09:36
Hi Frank, glad to see you're back here. I'm away from home and not had much access to AOS, so I didn't know.
Currently in Cornwall myself at my brother's, near Helston.
You keep threatening to pop in and say hello Geoff on the way way down or back. Offer still holds :)
Drama Queen, you've threatened to leave so many times, either do it or stop threatening it.
You can't welcome somebody back if they didn't even leave.
Drama Queen, you've threatened to leave so many times, either do it or stop threatening it.
Twice actually.
I'm threatening nothing. I cleared my entire account and never intended to come back because I can live perfectly well without this forum. It was a heap of PMs and a phone call from Marco saying how much they don't want me to leave and how I am a valued member who makes a positive contribution to AoS. Can't think how :scratch:
there have been at least 2 threads (including this one) where you stated you were leaving
your still here, if your staying great, I won't expect to see a third thread bemoaning how bad it is and that your leaving
Is this going anywhere constructive, Mark? Frank's here now, so please let's just leave it at that. Cheers!
Marco.
nowhere, just clarifying my point, :-)
as did Frank, no more to be said. personally I'm glad he's still here
Excellent - and so now we all move on... :)
Marco.
PaulStewart
16-05-2014, 13:22
Just a point of clarification please, I have the Firebottle phono stage, which I was going to review, however I've not bought it and probably won't at this time. If I can't post opinions 'cos I haven't bought it, it kind of negates the use of an audio forum.
I don't see that it negates it - but presumably one is unlikely to give a negative review to something one has purchased...
jandl100
16-05-2014, 15:10
I once owned a Linn Unidisk universal optical disc player - it thought it was awful, I loathed it. (I got it in a swap deal.)
There you go, a negative review of some hifi gear I owned. :)
But yes, there will be a strong bias towards positive reviews, won't there. :scratch:
Then again, why not spread the good news. :)
PaulStewart
16-05-2014, 15:34
But yes, there will be a strong bias towards positive reviews, won't there. :scratch:
:exactly:
When I did independent reviews an posted them on Musicosis, I got slammed by the mods here for just posting a link to what was a commercial site and not putting the review on here :scratch: Now the goal psts have been moved. I may just give up on the whole thing, there's no point in a forum where honest views can't be posted. I think most people on here are grown up enough to see if there is a commercial imperative along with a recommendation.
FWIW article 10 of the human rights act gives people the right of free expression and I know this is within certain socially accepted parameters. I don't think that giving your views on a bloody cable would be considered in the same way as sowing race hate or revealing cosmic level government secrets :lol:
At the end of the day, you read what people say and then adults make up there own minds. Sadly I will now pass on the Firebottle unit without posting my opinion on it and how it compared to units costing 10 times as much :(
jandl100
16-05-2014, 15:51
I don't think that giving your views on a bloody cable would be considered in the same way as sowing race hate or revealing cosmic level government secrets :lol:
Coo - do you know any? :eek:
Sadly I will now pass on the Firebottle unit without posting my opinion on it and how it compared to units costing 10 times as much :(
Ooo, let's guess ... :scratch: ... it was better! :thumbsup:
:exactly:
When I did independent reviews an posted them on Musicosis, I got slammed by the mods here for just posting a link to what was a commercial site and not putting the review on here :scratch: Now the goal psts have been moved. I may just give up on the whole thing, there's no point in a forum where honest views can't be posted. I think most people on here are grown up enough to see if there is a commercial imperative along with a recommendation.
FWIW article 10 of the human rights act gives people the right of free expression and I know this is within certain socially accepted parameters. I don't think that giving your views on a bloody cable would be considered in the same way as sowing race hate or revealing cosmic level government secrets :lol:
At the end of the day, you read what people say and then adults make up there own minds. Sadly I will now pass on the Firebottle unit without posting my opinion on it and how it compared to units costing 10 times as much :(
Let's face it, no-one's going to come round your place and demand to see proof of purchase. You could have gotten away with saying you'd bought it.
PaulStewart
16-05-2014, 16:26
Coo - do you know any? :eek:
Ooo, let's guess ... :scratch: ... it was better! :thumbsup:
Seriously in the UK in my career, I've had a story subject to a D-Notice once, but I thought the "secrets" were so obvious it wasn't worth their effort. Pretty scary though when special branch call you on an unlisted mobile number within 3 minutes of you being pulled up by the armed rozzers. Another time we published a story and got a nasty letter from the Mod which did mention the penalties under the official secrets act..... I hope telling people this isn't an official secret :lol:
On the second point, let's just say it placed really well ;)
Gordon Steadman
16-05-2014, 16:56
I'm not sure I see why the new missive stops you reporting your findings in this case. Alan is not a trade member but has designed a superb device specifically for members of this forum. It has already had some very positive reviews to which I will add mine. Its bloody superb and for the price charged its a stupid bargain.
Yes I'm a mate of his and could easily be accused of a slight bias. However, his phono amp is in daily use in my system and I'm not about to listen every day to something I'm not very happy with.
Just a point of clarification please, I have the Firebottle phono stage, which I was going to review, however I've not bought it and probably won't at this time. If I can't post opinions 'cos I haven't bought it, it kind of negates the use of an audio forum.
Hi Paul,
Happy to clarify, however it's pretty much covered here:
Here on The Art of Sound, we actively encourage members to post reviews of any item of audio equipment they feel will be of interest to the membership.
However in any forum review, the author must state at the beginning whether the product(s) concerned have been purchased yet or not......
You don't need to have bought the product(s) in question, in order to review them, but whether you have done so or not (i.e. if they've merely been loaned to you by the seller, or are on trial at your volition), must be made clear at the beginning of the review - simples :)
I'll amend the ruling in the Noticeboard, in order to make that fact clearer.
Marco.
I think this gets the balance about right. By including the required information in the review, there won't be anything to feed the conspiracy theorists, and some of the personal invective seen in some of the recent threads will not be necessary/justified.
That's not to say that hyperbole and over the top positive reviews will pass without comment, I'm sure.
Thanks, Alex, and I agree. I think it's about as fair as we can make what is a tricky rule to implement.
I should also stress that anyone found to be lying about whether products have been purchased (and these things always come out eventually) could face a permanent ban, as we're relying on people's honesty, and a dim view will be taken by anyone abusing such trust.
Marco.
I'm not sure I see why the new missive stops you reporting your findings in this case.
Indeed - and it doesn't. Paul is therefore free to post his thoughts on the Firebottle :)
The last thing we want is to 'handcuff' people, as it were, but by the same token, some level of control on these matters is necessary.
Marco.
jandl100
16-05-2014, 20:32
Seriously in the UK in my career, I've had a story subject to a D-Notice once, but I thought the "secrets" were so obvious it wasn't worth their effort. Pretty scary though when special branch call you on an unlisted mobile number within 3 minutes of you being pulled up by the armed rozzers. Another time we published a story and got a nasty letter from the Mod which did mention the penalties under the official secrets act..... I hope telling people this isn't an official secret :lol:
:eek:
Astonishing! :)
That's not to say that hyperbole and over the top positive reviews will pass without comment, I'm sure.
Posted product reviews get pretty powerful peer review in the forum, so I doubt that hyperbole or unnecessary bias will get off without serious inquiry. After that, it's up to the reader to decide.
As I've said often enough: a review can only serve to help you shortlist a product for listening, no more.
PaulStewart
18-05-2014, 01:30
Well I now feel really loathe to post reviews or recomendstions on here now. I have in the past been attacked by a mod on this forum for posting a link to a review I had on a commercial site, so I stopped doing that, I see others being attacked for shilling because they recommend things. People do still send me stuff to evaluate and I do comment on it, but the attitude I have seen here, especially over the slic cable, beggars belief. I think there are moderators on here who are far from moderate and I find that unacceptable.
See you round the clubs
Well, Paul, that's up to you, but I think you're being silly. The new ruling is perfectly fair and workable for those who are honest and also willing to come and go a bit.
Furthermore, I see no evidence of anyone having been "attacked for shilling", unless you can provide some real proof of such, rather than what is merely your perception?
The Slic fiasco happened for various reasons, which have now been argued to death, and I believe largely resolved by the new ruling. Martin T has since posted a great review of the Slics, whilst observing the new rules, the thread for which has remained entirely constructive and on-topic. Therefore, I see no reason for that not to be the case with reviews of other products in future.
Marco.
Well I now feel really loathe to post reviews or recomendstions on here now. I have in the past been attacked by a mod on this forum for posting a link to a review I had on a commercial site, so I stopped doing that, I see others being attacked for shilling because they recommend things. People do still send me stuff to evaluate and I do comment on it, but the attitude I have seen here, especially over the slic cable, beggars belief. I think there are moderators on here who are far from moderate and I find that unacceptable.
See you round the clubs
It seems that anything new, innovative and interesting is given short shrift whereas something that is dirt cheap or from 30+ years ago is drooled over. I fail to see why new products are almost totally ignored or beaten to death, so maybe we should rename the place ACAoS. The Ancient and Cheap Art of Sound :rolleyes:
I still say it is for common sense to prevail rather than any global bans
It seems that anything new, innovative and interesting is given short shrift whereas something that is dirt cheap or from 30+ years ago is drooled over. I fail to see why new products are almost totally ignored or beaten to death, so maybe we should rename the place ACAoS. The Ancient and Cheap Art of Sound :rolleyes:
That's a rather simplistic way of looking at things, Frank, and also factually untrue. What we value on AoS is whichever kit is genuinely good, new or old, and there is plenty of evidence of that throughout the forum. I think the fact that some of our most prolific posters use high-quality vintage equipment is clouding your view of the reality! ;)
The only thing we don't value on AoS is badge snobbery, or the notion, in terms of equipment, that 'the latest is automatically the greatest', simply because it is patently untrue. There is also an active focus on identifying equipment and ancillaries (new and old) that deliver the highest SPPV, which has always been at the very core of the AoS ethos.
Anyway, can we please leave it there? It's a lovely sunny day, and I'm just about to help prepare Sunday lunch, so let's enjoy our weekend and not argue about a load of bollocks :cool:
Marco.
It seems that anything new, innovative and interesting is given short shrift whereas something that is dirt cheap or from 30+ years ago is drooled over. I fail to see why new products are almost totally ignored or beaten to death, so maybe we should rename the place ACAoS. The Ancient and Cheap Art of Sound :rolleyes:
I still say it is for common sense to prevail rather than any global bans
There is plenty of new and expensive stuff reviewed on AOS.
It would be a bit boring if you could just go out with your cheque book and buy whatever you wanted regardless of the price. I think its much more fun, creative and interesting to put together systems sometimes blending the old with the new and the cheap with the expensive. Besides new is not always better.
I don't think there is a conscious effort to review and drool over old stuff on AOS, but in many cases and I speak for myself, folk can't afford much of the extremely expensive new gear out there.
It seems that anything new, innovative and interesting is given short shrift whereas something that is dirt cheap or from 30+ years ago is drooled over. I fail to see why new products are almost totally ignored or beaten to death, so maybe we should rename the place ACAoS. The Ancient and Cheap Art of Sound :rolleyes:
I still say it is for common sense to prevail rather than any global bans
As written about elsewhere I think it's all about changing attitudes (or perhaps not changing, perhaps there have always been different attitudes?) to value for money.
Judging by the patent(s), there's not much that innovative about the SLIC as there are similar patents out there for minimalising crosstalk in a similar spacing manner but just not used in a hifi context and with a more practical construction for mass production. The difference perhaps is the majority of other cables being designed for cheaper mass-manufacture using regular manufacturing equipment OR lots of home-made plaited cables.. The SLIC is just a more complicated DIY build by the look of things.
Then there was crazy vagueness about such things like what conductor material it uses! Why is that kept a secret for example? Must be something people want hidden else throw it's value for money into question - "just listen" etc.
So then asking £500 on the basis of trust regarding construction and therefore a price based only on how good it may or may not sound, causes a lot of derision and suspicion - afterall, how good something sounds is purely subjective. That suspicion naturally then gets directed at the reviewer and people look for a conspiracy.. and the rest is history!
And hence the same can apply to many new things out there - they are often subjected to a lot of over-enthusiasm on forums and 6 months later they're sold on and no-one has kept them! Buying new involves an immediate depreciation usually whilst with older gear the wheat gets seperated from the chaff over time, plus there's no loss on an item if you don't like it! And what's more, people fawning of the latest product release can come across as being obsessives and don't instill trust in their sonic judgment.
Seems pretty obvious that older stuff is going to be more welcomed on the whole by hobbiests given the above. New gear testing requires either a lot of disposable income one is prepared to waste on a bad product, or a dealer relationship for which the dealer thinks you have a lot of disposable income or have had a lot of disposable income in the past and so sends you stuff to try and tempt you into a sale.. Sadly, that is not the case for 99% of internet hifi enthusiasts.
Just a fact of life I'm afraid Frank! Places like the What's Best forum seem to be more full of people buying the latest gear on a whim. No-one is limited to one forum - chop and change for different vibes, different slants etc :cool:
I don't think there is a conscious effort to review and drool over old stuff on AOS, but in many cases and I speak for myself, folk can't afford much of the extremely expensive new gear out there.
You and me both James.
But, I don't wish to see AoS being stuck on an endless treadmill of ONLY sticking to secondhand, budget and flavour of the month gear either. It is a tricky situation to resolve I will agree, but I don't want the blinds drawn either to see what else could be viewed as quality and value for money components that appear on the new market.
I think its much more fun, creative and interesting to put together systems sometimes blending the old with the new and the cheap with the expensive.
My very first impression of AoS is that this was very much the focus and ethos of the forum - deliberate emphasis on mixing old with new, that mix being the "Art".
And it's continued that throughout..
As written about elsewhere I think it's all about changing attitudes (or perhaps not changing, perhaps there have always been different attitudes?) to value for money.
Judging by the patent(s), there's not much that innovative about the SLIC as there are similar patents out there for minimalising crosstalk in a similar spacing manner but just not used in a hifi context and with a more practical construction for mass production. The difference perhaps is the majority of other cables being designed for cheaper mass-manufacture using regular manufacturing equipment OR lots of home-made plaited cables.. The SLIC is just a more complicated DIY build by the look of things.
Then there was crazy vagueness about such things like what conductor material it uses! Why is that kept a secret for example? Must be something people want hidden else throw it's value for money into question - "just listen" etc.
So then asking £500 on the basis of trust regarding construction and therefore a price based only on how good it may or may not sound, causes a lot of derision and suspicion - afterall, how good something sounds is purely subjective. That suspicion naturally then gets directed at the reviewer and people look for a conspiracy.. and the rest is history!
And hence the same can apply to many new things out there - they are often subjected to a lot of over-enthusiasm on forums and 6 months later they're sold on and no-one has kept them! Buying new involves an immediate depreciation usually whilst with older gear the wheat gets seperated from the chaff over time, plus there's no loss on an item if you don't like it! And what's more, people fawning of the latest product release can come across as being obsessives and don't instill trust in their sonic judgment.
Seems pretty obvious that older stuff is going to be more welcomed on the whole by hobbiests given the above. New gear testing requires either a lot of disposable income one is prepared to waste on a bad product, or a dealer relationship for which the dealer thinks you have a lot of disposable income or have had a lot of disposable income in the past and so sends you stuff to try and tempt you into a sale.. Sadly, that is not the case for 99% of internet hifi enthusiasts.
Just a fact of life I'm afraid Frank! Places like the What's Best forum seem to be more full of people buying the latest gear on a whim. No-one is limited to one forum - chop and change for different vibes, different slants etc :cool:
Errrrm, did I mention SLIC at all? Have I asked anyone to try or buy any of it? Have I promoted it anywhere? Enthusiastic about what I hear from it but no more and no less.
I have been asked to evaluate some more products but I have turned them down because I don't want to go through all that crap over the SLIC again.
You and me both James.
But, I don't wish to see AoS being stuck on an endless treadmill of ONLY sticking to secondhand, budget and flavour of the month gear either. It is a tricky situation to resolve I will agree, but I don't want the blinds drawn either to see what else could be viewed as quality and value for money components that appear on the new market.
Time passes and things become secondhand very quickly, flavours of the month change... err, every month! Therefore there is lots of potential for an ever evolving forum.
Errrrm, did I mention SLIC at all? Have I asked anyone to try or buy any of it? Have I promoted it anywhere? Enthusiastic about what I hear from it but no more and no less.
I have been asked to evaluate some more products but I have turned them down because I don't want to go through all that crap over the SLIC again.
Ah, sorry! So the cable thread referenced in the OP was something different from SLIC, but something else sent from MCRU (you definately did mention MCRU)? Sorry I assumed this all came about from the SLIC cable review. I must be reading another forum and confusing the two..
The other points I haven't brought up myself either.
It was my synopsis on how we got here and a little thought on why that might be - a difference in VFM judgment and therefore arguments about value/being conned being the underlying emotion whether justified or not. That also leads to the emphasis on older gear and therefore the VFM attitude derived from the secondhand market.
It's all linked and completely relevent!
Ah, sorry! So the cable thread referenced in the OP was something different from SLIC, but something else sent from MCRU (you definately did mention MCRU)? Sorry I assumed this all came about from the SLIC cable review. I must be reading another forum and confusing the two..
The other points I haven't brought up myself either.
It was my synopsis on how we got here and a little thought on why that might be - a difference in VFM judgment and therefore arguments about value/being conned being the underlying emotion whether justified or not. That also leads to the emphasis on older gear and therefore the VFM attitude derived from the secondhand market.
It's all linked and completely relevent!
I haven't mentioned SLIC at all, so why do YOU see fit to mention it? Patents, construction, materials are sweet FA to do with me, but the VFM aspect was perfect for *ME* and not for you then tough, so if you have any issues at all with what i am not responsible for then kindly take it up with the vendor or the designer.
FFS even when I don't mention it, it still gets brought up and *I* get the blame for raising the subject :steam:
I haven't mentioned SLIC at all, so why do YOU see fit to mention it? Patents, construction, materials are sweet FA to do with me, but the VFM aspect was perfect for *ME* and not for you then tough, so if you have any issues at all with what i am not responsible for then kindly take it up with the vendor or the designer.
FFS even when I don't mention it, it still gets brought up and *I* get the blame for raising the subject :steam:
Your response to Marco's original post which didn't mention any product was what raised the SLIC issue on this thread, so it's bit rich for you to blame others for raising the subject!
Firebottle
18-05-2014, 12:31
Calm down boys..........:grouphug:
Audio Al
18-05-2014, 12:32
STOP IT NOW
:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::steam::steam::steam::ste am::steam::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:
Indeed. If this discussion descends into another tedious argument about Slic, the thread will be locked and the perpetrators given a wee holiday. I refuse to spoil my Sunday lunch having to moderate this shite, so be warned!
Honestly, I sometimes wonder if some of you have a life outside of hi-fi forums. Go outside and enjoy the sun, FFS!!
Marco.
Indeed. If this discussion descends into another tedious argument about Slic, the thread will be locked and the perpetrators given a wee holiday. I refuse to spoil my Sunday lunch having to moderate this shite, so be warned!
Honestly, I sometimes wonder if some of you have a life outside of hi-fi forums. Go outside and enjoy the sun, FFS!!
Marco.
I'm avoiding mowing the lawn.
I'm avoiding mowing the lawn.
So am I!
Done it yesterday. When your lawn measures more in acres than metres, you can't let the grass grow too long!
Marco.
I think the new rule is fair and needed.
There was nothing particularly bad about the thread which caused the rule at all in fact! I thought the thread was fine other than just general cynicism..
But it brought up possibilities and abiding by the rule prevents the accusations that came with that cynicism.
My 2p's worth.
Sorry, Nat, but I've deleted your last response, directed at Frank. Did you read what I wrote in post #52? If you want to argue the toss with Frank about Slic, do it by PM. I'm sick to death of the mention of the bloody stuff!!
In fact, any further mention of Slic on this forum, other than in an appropriate hi-fi context/review, will be removed along with its author. Some folk need to learn when to shut up and move on, or otherwise they'll be shipped out, as quite simply, I don't need the grief.
Marco.
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