View Full Version : Lampizator Level 7
I do believe a Lampizator Level 7 is arriving here in about 10 minutes:)
Ali Tait
10-05-2014, 12:22
Must be there now?
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Waitrose/sdc14724-qpr_zps31cf1899.jpg
Ali Tait
10-05-2014, 13:03
Nice. How's it sound?
Too much socialising going on to know yet:)
Post 2 edited for a better pic showing the Lampizator level 7 DAC with Psvane 2A3s, some Sun Mook Mpingo disks, rjs from the Wam's new Yamamoto pre and Lampizator transport.
I've been off axis all afternoon, but the Lampizator level 7 has a personality not that far removed from the 4. I'm not going to say too much more about the sound until I have had a better listen. Suffice to say though it is definitely really nice, and far removed from the Audio Note sound. Certainly nothing like an Audio Note DAC 4.1 for instance. Watch this space for a more comprehensive assessment later.
The level 7 is on short term loan and I won't have it after Wednesday. I just really wanted to hear one and Greg from G-Point was kind enough to bring one around.
Well, you can't hear it - I can't turn it up loud enough. So you might as well have a better look at it.
So here's a couple of the backage of the DACage.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Lampizator%20L7/sdc14737-qpr_zps61b3217d.jpg
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Lampizator%20L7/sdc14732-qpr_zpsfea70fae.jpg
Two of the tubeage. I know if I owned this I'd be rolling those 2A3s. Or 45s. Or 300Bs. There seems to be a good supply of 45s left in NOS land at reasonable prices, so it might be a good option. NOS 300Bs are really going to cost, as are 2A3s.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Lampizator%20L7/sdc14728-qpr_zps21851f70.jpg
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Lampizator%20L7/sdc14735-qpr_zpseb92512d.jpg
One of the topage.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Lampizator%20L7/sdc14742-qpr_zpsf5094182.jpg
Really must sell the yacht, bad weather and all.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Lampizator%20L7/sdc14748-qpr_zps369e600d.jpg
OK so this DAC is mad. It costs a serious amount of money by most standards.
Am I a pimp selling Lampizator wares? No.
Is this willy waving? No, I don't own it.
Am I getting backhanders to promote it? No I am not.
"It must be a shill, surely. I don't believe a word of what Justin has just said."
More fool you.
Do I realise you can buy a very decent DAC for around £500? Yes I do.
So all BS that pollutes the hi-fi forum scene hopefully dealt with, maybe we can move on:D
This one has the DSD module fitted, so I'll be checking that out using JRiver's on-the-fly conversion later on. DSD mode is selected by pressing the button on the top unit in.
This is one of two level 7s available: Level 7 (http://www.lampizator.eu/NEWDAC/Lampizator/Level_Seven.html), and the Big 7 (http://www.lampizator.eu/NEWDAC/Lampizator/The_Big_Seven.html).
I'd rather have had the Big 7 as I really rate the EML rectifiers in my preamp, so hearing the EML 45 would have been a good thing. However, you can only listen to what is available at the time.
Early listening impressions definitely confirm a house sound not that far removed from the level 4. It sounds like a Lampizator to me. Listening yesterday with rjs (level 4 owner) we both felt the bass to be markedly tighter and less heavy than a 4. This is the most obvious aspect of the difference between the two DACs.
I'll write more as I have concluded more. I'm not really one for writing reviews per se, I just like to add thoughts as I go along.
Ok so far that sounds alright for me. I heard Robert's at Scalford and after a little thinking and raising funds etc I ended up with a Level 4 Gen5 with Duelund caps no pre amp but usb module fitted. A huge improvement on the level 2.8 to 3ish I had heard recently in my system. My understanding is the Level7 comes with Duelunds and that might explain the tautness in bass. Probably wishful thinking on my part but Level4 with Duelunds I think gets you a long way up the ladder in Lampyland.
Nice toy to have for a loan.
I've got the level 4 fired up at the same time as the 7, swapping between the two.
Is the level 7 just different? No, it is just better.
That said, the level 4 is still seriously good.
According to the website there are no caps in the output stage of the 7 two box variant. So in at least some sense, the cap makers can go take a hike.
What I really like about these DACs is they don't sound too coloured, but at the same time they sound thoroughly enjoyable. From what I've heard, and I really have had some extremely good ones here, they are the best to my ears.
DAC now gone:( Onto a chap called Simon whoever he may be via a Wammer. Will do a post proper tomoz. Some interesting things to say. Well, I think so anyway.
anubisgrau
15-05-2014, 12:53
Suffice to say though it is definitely really nice, and far removed from the Audio Note sound. Certainly nothing like an Audio Note DAC 4.1 for instance.
Is this good or bad? What's wrong with AN 4.1?
Is this good or bad? What's wrong with AN 4.1?
Nothing is wrong with an AN 4.1. It is a great DAC. It just sounds nothing like an AN 4.1. I really like the AN 4.1 with a pair of AN Es. I liked it with my speakers but for me it isn't such a good blend in that situation. I hear levels of colouration that are too high for me to accept long term. I didn't hear those colourations to anywhere near the same extent with AN Es. It may well be that the 4.1 has been voiced with AN Es.
Anyway DSD - unfortunately, for whatever reason, didn't work. I could only get it to partially work with DSD in DoP. The 2xDSD modes would not work at all. DSD in DoP produced obvious timing errors/glitches. I was using a long USB cable, though, close to the USB 2 limit of 5m if I remember correctly.
Watching CPU usage during even the lowest DSD mode sees JRiver eating much more CPU than with conventional playback - around 30-40% usage on my laptop, whereas with Red Book it is generally less than 8%. The next mode up saw an approximate doubling of CPU usage. But that didn't work anyway. DSD Lampi users anywhere, have you had 2xDSD working?
I wonder whether a shorter, better quality cable like the Lampizator one I just sold would have solved it. I don't know.
Reverting back to conventional playback, it is the best I have heard, to my ears, in my opinion, in my system ever. And by not such a small margin.
Compared to the 4, which I thought didn't have much scope for betterment, it is quite clearly ahead. I volume matched using pink noise. Yet still somehow the 7 sounded louder. It is extraordinary - it just sounds like so much more signal is getting through to the ears.
Then after what'd rjs and I had concluded about the bass, constant neurotic swiching between DACs and material, which we didn't do during our sessions, led me to the conclusion that the 4 really wasn't that far behind it in the bass. The real leap in performance seems to be in the mid and especially the upper mid/treble region.
I became convinced that the frequency response was tailored as the 4 generally sounded quite a bit brighter. I got the Umik mic out and did a system FR of the 4 versus the 7. They were pretty much bang on each other's backs apart from higher in the HF region, 2 DB or so offset in the 7s favour for loudness. I hadn't pink noise volume matched, but it did show that higher up the 7 and 4 converged. That does mean the 7 is a tinsy bit rolled off. But nothing like what I thought I was hearing.
It simply seems that the nature of the 7s HF playback is just a LOT more refined, with the 4 sounding comparatively much more incisive.
That's the overall feeling you get from the 7. It is just so refined sounding, but in a really uncoloured and natural manner. I keep thinking about actually buying it, it is that good:)
Too much socialising going on to know yet:)
You must know your courier very well! Or is it the postman?
Edit: oh.. I should have read further before posting that! Didn't realise it was just a listening session - thought you'd bought it.
Nope. Not bought it. I wonder what Emission Labs 2A3s would do to it. Never been a fan of Chinese valves but the 2A3s can't be bad at all. You don't hear sounds like that from sub-par valves.
The FR correlation is badly described above. The 7 was 2DB above the 4 until much higher up the FR, where the 2 DACs matched each other exactly. So therefore the 7 is very slightly rolled off WRT the 4.
Nothing is wrong with an AN 4.1. It is a great DAC. It just sounds nothing like an AN 4.1. I really like the AN 4.1 with a pair of AN Es. I liked it with my speakers but for me it isn't such a good blend in that situation. I hear levels of colouration that are too high for me to accept long term. I didn't hear those colourations to anywhere near the same extent with AN Es. It may well be that the 4.1 has been voiced with AN Es.
Interesting answer as I think this will concur with anubisgrau's thoughts. I am thinking very much about how the higher level Lampizators compare to my Audial Model S DAC, along with what the new LFD DAC5 sounds like, so perhaps time to listen to some new DACs.
anubisgrau
15-05-2014, 22:24
what's 2A3 tube doing there? a regulator or an output stage?
i have no experience with lampi current stuff so i'm trying to establish myself a sort of benchmark. i know AN4.1x so i can understand what you mean when you say lampi 7's less coloured.
audial S is a great DAC, certainly more neutral than AN. i'm actually thinking of getting one, especially if the price is right. my altmann's finally left my house after 6 years of absolute loyalty.
The 2A3 is part of the output stage.
They do Lampizator coke in Germany...:D
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/17/vynygydy.jpg
Just don't listen to one of these. It will lead to quite serious dissatisfaction.
With what you have that is (wink). The memory of this thing is truly haunting me.
HifiPig review up...
http://hifipig.com/lampizator-level-7-dac/
Surprised actually. That review is alarmingly accurate and in accordance with my own impressions of this exact same unit.
I'll look out for Dan's reviews in the future.
Actually a bit more thoughts now I have read Dan's review at home.
L7 versus L4 on Etherwood's drum'n'bass album named Etherwood. L7 pulverised the L4. The whole album just sounds much more beautiful and engaging via the L7. So having the advantage of both DACs in the house at the same time, the L7 wins on this genre or more specifically this particular recording.
On electronica - Rufus's Atlas album. L7 pulverises L4 again. The level of emotion portrayed by the L7 just transcends the L4 quite significantly.
On The Idiots are winning by Holden - mad, bizarre electronica - L7 distance against L4 narrows a lot. This highlights maybe Dan's point about speed. The L4 just sounds quicker, albeit brighter and more incisive, but what this album blows your mind with is its massive speed - if you have speakers that can render that in the first place that is. The L7 somehow dulls the speed aspect, but it is still great in other areas.
In other words, if you like electronic music I really wouldn't write this DAC off in any way, shape or form. I take the point about loss of speed but it still renders electronic music extremely well IMHO.
It ain't too bad on rock either. I listen to rock/reggae and electronica and I still rate it up there.
Also, recently I heard an AN DAC 4.1 that sounded quite different to another 4.1. One was a kit however, the other was originally a prototype. They were quite different I think, one sounding far less coloured than the other. This shows just how impossible it is to be certain what you've heard is the same thing as someone else has.
In this case, however, Dan's L7 was the exact same one I had. The lack of customisation available on L7s means reviews should really be talking about pretty much the same machines. Not so with lower level Lampizators i.e. 4 and 5s.
All that said, I'll say it again, the L4 is still a great DAC. The L7 it just really seriously good. And so it should be:)
awkwardbydesign
17-06-2014, 08:55
I had to have a serious word with Dan. He had this DAC and didn't tell me! I only live 5 minutes away. Grrr.
anubisgrau
17-06-2014, 10:06
value for money 8.5/10 for a 8k DAC FFS??!!!
hornucopia
18-06-2014, 18:25
It passed through my house after Justin, en route to the mythical 'Simon', so I could have a listen.(Wam Taxi Depot)
Pretty fine.
(I use a MHDT Havana, much upgraded)
It -the 7 - had more definition and separation than the Havana and a nice way of letting you picture the musicians in their own space, where apt.
But at 16X price.....I'll stick!
Thinking of Zero 1 to simplify set-up......but I need to research Streaming -How to-, as I'm still a bit Luddite/ignorant on that score.
But we have a Tablet in the house, streaming away, so....how hard can it be?
Here is a Lampi Big7 review/feedback from the USA:
AS i have had my B7 for about 4 or 5 days now going 12 hours at 6 and 6 at a time . The pcm is as good or better than my MSB Platinum stack (with Galaxy 2 clock upgrade) . As it plays i am in amazement . The presentation is awesome its like hearing your music collection all over again. My home cpu stinks, and the dsd was good but not giving the wow that the pcm has. So i fired up my iMac and audirvana plus . I put on Elvis 57 (a dsd download) . Its a dsd64 transfer from analog . Track 3 has a simple clapping in the left channel . Now clapping is a simple sound but so is a piano and most dacs stink at it, but this dac is giving me the texture of the hands as they clap. The only time i have heard this is with my MSB stack . This may seem simple but its a milestone . This dac has given me my wow moment. I can hear into the recording so deep that it gives me chills of realism . I now have my WOW moment.
thanks lukas for this device and at this price its an even better wow for me.
Big 7 heading this way... will let you know what I think.
Will say though that it takes a while to recover from an L7 - a few weeks, in fact. Then a Lampi level 4 seems very nice indeed thank you.
But once heard....:lol:
Yeah J,
My pal has the NYC Big7 and I am living vicariously thru him. He is sooo excited by the SQ!!!!
He is a DSD lover but the Big7 PCM has him spellbound!
If I was going to try DSD again I'd pre-convert it - in other words I wouldn't use JRiver's on the fly conversion. On my laptop that might stand a chance of working at higher bit rates.
I'm fine with the PCM, though. That works well enough for me.
Well, the soon to arrive Big7 will have DSD, so just play it back at native rate...you will be pleased.
No it won't be fitted to the B7 unit I get. I should have the L7 this thread was raised for at the same time.
Nice. I am drooling with envy....
jandl100
03-07-2014, 06:34
Justin, I'd be fascinated to bring my slightly 'upped' vintage Techie SL-P1200 cdp round just to see how it compares with what could perhaps be claimed to be the current state of the art.
... and also to see how the Lampi 7 does with a range of classical music. :)
I think he is getting the Big 7, not the L7.
jandl100
03-07-2014, 08:25
Ah right - I've rather lost the plot with model names. :)
StanleyB
03-07-2014, 08:35
Justin, I'd be fascinated to bring my slightly 'upped' vintage Techie SL-P1200 cdp round just to see how it compares with what could perhaps be claimed to be the current state of the art.
... and also to see how the Lampi 7 does with a range of classical music. :)
I can send you a CII to try, but only if you promise not to use your graphic equalizer in line with the signal path.
jandl100
03-07-2014, 08:48
I can send you a CII to try, but only if you promise not to use your graphic equalizer in line with the signal path.
:lol:
OK - that's a deal, Stan. :thumbsup:
No I should have been getting both L7 and B7 at the same time. However, they seem a long time coming, LOL.
Jerry - sure no problem. Be amusing if I discovered what I really needed was a Techie. Last minute sanity check would be most welcome:)
Just e-mailed Greg to find out what is going on.
Did an L7 versus B7 comparison today. Ran both with the same Psvane 211-T 2A3 valves plus the same rectifiers. They are very close - so close for it to be almost if not a non-issue.
However the B7 can run both 45 or 2A3s. This puts it at an advantage. Will say more tomorrow.
I actually wrote the below a few days ago. So here it is:)
The B7 seems to have turned up. I've had it a few days now with Shuguang & Electro Harmonix 2A3s, plus
Emission Labs 45s. This is possible as the unit now has a switch that allows both tube types to be used.
This provides a degree of flexibility the L7 doesn't have - better for tube rolling freaks in other words.
Results with all valve types are really very good. The Emission Labs 45s (note: not the mesh plate version,
which may be better still) are the smoothest sounding of the lot, with the biggest soundstage. The real
surprise is the Electro Harmonix 2A3, which is absurdly cheap compared to the EMLs. It retains a degree of
bite should you feel the need for it, but has excellent characteristics elsewhere too. The Shuguang 2A3-Z
makes the unit sound a lot more like the L7 as I remember it, which had a higher grade Shuguang 2A3-T in
it.
The DAC is remarkably even handed across the frequency range. Detail retrieval, separation and imaging
appears to be absolutely first rate. Transients appear un-hyped and natural.
Referring to Martin Colloms Duetta Signature review from 1988:
"As is the wont with good speakers, this design did not impose itself on first hearing; rather it sounded smooth, unexaggerated and apparently unassuming. If you are looking for superficial excitement, head-banging dynamics, or an exaggerated clarity and attack, the Duetta may well disappoint. It has inner qualities whose strengths can only be realized with the help of the finest sources. It would be easy to misjudge the Signatures, ascribing fault where the blame really lies with the cable, power amplifier, or earlier source components. Despite some minor flaws, this speaker's behaviour shows most clearly that the major aspects of its performance are relatively unbounded, given the present state of the art. By this I mean that the music-making and the information-retrieving aspects of the Duetta Signature are superior to the best of present-day sources and electronics, and thus barely impose any limit upon them. There is clearly scope to accommodate future improvements, while an existing system will perform to its practical limit with the Signature."
Hearing how these speakers behave with this DAC really re-enforces this view, even in 2014. It just becomes
more and more obvious as time goes on that the speakers just reveal anything naff in a source or partnering
amps. Any faults you hear are almost exclusively due to something upstream not being up to par.
So little can genuinely be criticized with this DAC. It doesn't seem to emphasize anything in particular. However,
it's replay characteristics can be fined tuned by changing the valves, just as it can with ny other tube
DAC. Though the extent to which the sound can be altered is of course limited. This means that it is not
absolutely correct. No source component ever will be I suspect.
There is probably some degree of euphony over absolute accuracy, but in this game you never know what absolute accuracy actually is. Sure there are more exciting sounding machines out there, but is this the result of some sort of hype in other machines or is the B7 relatively very slightly laid back in nature? I'd probably wager a bit of both. That doesn't mean to say it can't sound exciting with the right material. It most definitely can, especially with a liberal dose of volume and the right source material.
Every time I switch back to the level 4 for a reality check, I realise the B7 is superior playing the same music.
I could rant on but you've just got to listen to know. And let's face it anyone interested at this level is going to do precisely that.
Excessive bass seems to be far less of an issue with the B7 than the L4. The Duetta isn't perfectly flat in the bass despite the above statement from Martin, which to be fair he mentions later in the Duetta review. Someone who owns a much more expensive MSB DAC prefers the B7 to it. Which kind of begs the question where do you go from here? What is better? Dumb question. Anything you prefer, if you take the trouble to listen. I just think you're going to have to listen to a hell of a lot of expensive DACs to find something genuinely better, whatever better actually means to you.
For anyone interested in Duetta Signatures, the 1988 review can be found at http://www.apogeespeakers.com/. For me, this remains the finest practical domestic loudspeaker I have ever heard or owned. This DAC just further seals or rubber stamps that opinion.
Sorry about the odd formatting above it was a post from Notepad and I just can't be bothered to fix it. I really hate vBulletin's edit controls so we'll put it down to the fact it is just shite, both here and on other forums using it.
Got some 1920s Cunningham CX-345 (45) tubes on the way. I just have to hear how these 90 year old tubes actually sound. And some 6X5GT Raytheon rectifiers coming over the pond too.
A bit more on the tubes. The EML 45 really does have very smooth mid range and casts a huge soundstage. With a pair of large planars this soundstage can get so large it is crazy with some recordings. For me a bit too large sometimes but it is a real ear opener and huge fun to actually witness. It works very well with female vocals and acoustic music in general. Probably great with classical but I'm not into it.
The cheap as chips EH 2A3 - upper mid range bite. Tight bass. More restrained imaging (smaller soundstage) than the EML. In truth the imaging is excellent. Just as it is with the next tube.
Psvane 2A3-T. I think this is possibly the best all-rounder. Lacks the bite of the EH 2A3 but isn't as smooth as the EML 45. A great compromise between the two extremes. Excellent tight bass, nice sized soundstage. Excellent resolution. But all these tubes seem to display excellent resolution in this circuit.
I hope this helps any future L7/B7 owners in their valve purchasing decisions, which is the reason I have posted it, really. What an altruistic fellow:D
Timing is everything! Got my first listen to a Big 7 last night. Just to look the unit is really impressive. Perspex lid allows a glimpse of what lays beneath. It is bloody Big. Largest Dac I have ever seen. Barely any hours on it but as Justin reports above this is very special sounding. I have a L4.5 which sounds lovely to me but B7 is just a big leap ahead of it in terms of density of texture, harmonic richness and huge soundstage. Can't see where you could go after this. Tried it against a Meitner also and while the MA1 probably resolves detail to a 'greater' level the B7 is the one I would pick as a keeper. Would reckon Lukasz has a lot of customers with enough funds beating a door to upgrade to L7/B7 should mean some secondhand bargains for those interested in this flavour of dac. It wont be everybody's cup of tea. DCS lovers will more than likely run a mile but for beguiling and enthralling sound the B7 is the only one.
value for money 8.5/10 for a 8k DAC FFS??!!!
It's all relative. Compared to a Jolida Glass FXII DAC 8.5/10 VFM is a joke. Compared to similar priced DACs value for money maybe be 13/10, LOL.
Timing is everything! Got my first listen to a Big 7 last night. Just to look the unit is really impressive. Perspex lid allows a glimpse of what lays beneath. It is bloody Big. Largest Dac I have ever seen. Barely any hours on it but as Justin reports above this is very special sounding. I have a L4.5 which sounds lovely to me but B7 is just a big leap ahead of it in terms of density of texture, harmonic richness and huge soundstage. Can't see where you could go after this. Tried it against a Meitner also and while the MA1 probably resolves detail to a 'greater' level the B7 is the one I would pick as a keeper. Would reckon Lukasz has a lot of customers with enough funds beating a door to upgrade to L7/B7 should mean some secondhand bargains for those interested in this flavour of dac. It wont be everybody's cup of tea. DCS lovers will more than likely run a mile but for beguiling and enthralling sound the B7 is the only one.
Glad you've heard it Tony. Nice to have some affirmation I'm not imagining things or more specifically not talking complete BS.:)
Well, with some Cunningham CX-345s on the way, it may interest some to know that Cunningham was a tube bootlegger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_T._Cunningham) around 1915-20!
The Cunningham 45 globes are amazing. Head and shoulders better than anything so far.
Does this DAC sound better than my analogue front end? You're too damn right it does - GyroOrbe\Morch DP6\Orpheus\Trichord Diablo NCPSU so pretty good really. And by no small stretch. The L4 couldn't really pull that trick off. This DAC can. Easily. It is a much better listen all round and far more consistent over various recordings.
I thought maybe the B7 lacked some speed, as I did the L7. Speed is there is spades with these 45s. As is awesomely well controlled bass that drops really low with full control. Imaging is superb and resolution is just crazy. Separation of instruments is superb. And the feeling you have something in front of you that is real is vey high indeed.
Why the hell these old valves are so damned good I do not know. But they are. Why they sound so fast when there is obviously no hype in the mid band or above I do not know. These were made post Cunningham's bootlegging days, when against all odds he had secured some very favourable court rulings when all odds were stacked against him. A cunning man indeed.
They are an outstanding achievement and I wonder whether the RCA engineers ever knew it? Well, if the Silbertone system at Munich this year was anything to go by, they bloody well did! I reckon Joe would approve of this device, though there's a chance I might be wrong:)
I wonder whether Lukasz knows just how good they are? I've passed a heads up back to him via appropriate channels.
Er... that would be Silbatone (http://www.silbatoneacoustics.com/):D
Apologies for seemingly over-hyping this DAC. But I really do believe it is a step forward.
Er... that would be Silbatone (http://www.silbatoneacoustics.com/):D
Apologies for seemingly over-hyping this DAC. But I really do believe it is a step forward.
Can you please stop posting, I am trying hard not to upgrade from my 5 here.
But yeah, a guy who owns the 30k msb stack seems to have preferred this and a guy with total dac said it was no competition. This tube rolling is very tempting
Repeat after me: "I am waiting for level 8, which is bound to use 2x WE 212" LOL When that comes out, there's always level 9 to wait even longer for:D
Can you please stop posting, I am trying hard not to upgrade from my 5 here.
But yeah, a guy who owns the 30k msb stack seems to have preferred this and a guy with total dac said it was no competition. This tube rolling is very tempting
Yup, I was at the guys house to tea the Big7 and the MSB stack. Lampi was more analog sounding.
The MSB DACs were in a lot of rooms at Munich 2011. From what I can remember, they all sounded great. This was probably my fave room using one. Video shot by me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCTuCc8nqBw
jandl100
19-08-2014, 10:13
Your kit may be too good now, Justin - I'm not sure I want to hear it! :lol:
I'll invite myself round once your new speakers have arrived. :)
Discuss at Silverstone Jerry sure we'll meet up as per last year.
Duetta issue you knew about has been resolved now. Just waiting for some custom made 1950s space style "Duettas Interstella" plaques to get finished. I did the art work:D
There seems to be quite a high number of hits on this thread so I'll assume people somewhere really are interested.
Here's a pic from the top showing the size of the thing. It has the EML 45s in. The preamp next to it is large anyway. Take this same shot with a flash and you can see virtually everything inside. Even so, I am unable to determine the chipset being used. I can see two fair sized Dueland caps in it though.
I got the Raytheon 6X5WGTs through, plugged them in and fired the DAC up. Instant impression? Absolutely terrible! Massive mid range tearing or ripping sound coming through. Hold on - it is getting better as time goes by. Even after about 5 minutes and TBH I think far longer I could detect some mid range ripping/tearing going on.
These rectifiers have probably never been used since the 50s. But I know they were at least measured NOS. They were from a high sales high rep ebay seller stateside. Now they have around 20 hours on them they sound clean. They obviously need some time to stabilise? I was surprised because I have never come across this before in any valve I've used. I need to do a bit more swapping between the supplied Russian OTK and these to come up with some firmer conclusions.
For interest's sake I swapped back to the knackered Tri-Vista SACD player I have. I've done it about 3 times now but it never lasts long. This once Stereophile A+ rated player gets beat quite markedly especially in terms of soundstaging and resolution, though to be honest I still like the sound it delivers. With the MF the band is some distance in front of you. With the Lampi, it feels a bit like you've moved forward a few rows - you're more enveloped by the sound. I've also noticed a propensity for it to throw images like they sound as if they are coming directly from the side of you. Really quite interesting to hear and it gives a feeling of disbelief - a sort of WTF? feeling is the best way to describe it. I've never heard my system do it before.
Again beware of reading too deeply into any person's thoughts on hi-fi. The way this machine performs in my system will almost certainly be different in yours, though some basic traits will be consistent I expect. Valve rolling also comes down to personal preference in presentation. Needless to say there are plenty of cheaper very listenable machines that are great DACs for way less money:)
Greg owes me a silver faceplate BTW - they couldn't source any at the time of the build for some reason.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-prUk0A2CQM0/U_tP_tdhhAI/AAAAAAAAB7Y/u7chEe5yLIw/w1012-h569-no/DSC01296
So, what's the difference in SQ between the Big 7 and the 2 box L7?
jorwoo14
29-08-2014, 15:20
literally have no idea what you guys are talking about lol
literally have no idea what you guys are talking about lol
In a nutshell, Justin bought the best dac around and wants to tell everyone about it, anyone who will listen. He also feels alone at the top because the rest of us have not upgraded. I still have the Lampi 5. So he got the 7, then managed to source some exotic valves to go with it, and is living happily ever after
The bonz, on the other hand, appears to be trying to sell everything at the mo - speakers, preamp, power amp...
... now if he only upgraded to the 7... he'd be just dandy with everything he has:lol:
Well, maybe;)
So, what's the difference in SQ between the Big 7 and the 2 box L7?
Post 45 (see what I did there?). They don't quite sound the same, but they really are quite close WITH THE SAME output valves. However, you can't put Cunningham 45s in the 7. Disadvantage. Quite a big one, but then again I expect there are some killer 2A3s out there all the same.
jandl100
05-09-2014, 07:12
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-prUk0A2CQM0/U_tP_tdhhAI/AAAAAAAAB7Y/u7chEe5yLIw/w1012-h569-no/DSC01296
Blimey :eek: - I've seen that pre-amp on the left, and it's a Big Box, more of a good-sized power amp than a pre - that Lampi must be HUGE!
bmichels
09-09-2014, 22:42
The BIG7 is a dream DAC, but what I am waiting for is the "Level7-HeadDAC" which is supposed to come later after the release of the new HeadDac (http://www.lampizator.eu/NEWDAC/Lampizator/Head_DAC.html) which is based on a Level4 DAC, with a headphone AMP built in (with maximum integration for optimal synergy)
Hm... I'm going to do some medieval tests on the Big 7... I'm thinking something and I'd like to see if the measurebating supports the perception.
The metal cased 7 is no more according to the website - orders, or 95% of them appear to be for the Big 7.
The B7 now seems to have a 101D option. So three output triodes are now available for use in this DAC. Excellent flexibility. I'm stuck with the choice of two being the first UK B7 owner. No problem, if I want to explore the 101D I'm sure it could be arranged. For a few dollars more...
Hm... I'm going to do some medieval tests on the Big 7... I'm thinking something and I'd like to see if the measurebating supports the perception.
The metal cased 7 is no more according to the website - orders, or 95% of them appear to be for the Big 7.
The B7 now seems to have a 101D option. So three output triodes are now available for use in this DAC. Excellent flexibility. I'm stuck with the choice of two being the first UK B7 owner. No problem, if I want to explore the 101D I'm sure it could be arranged. For a few dollars more...
I think your Cunninghams may still have the best SQ. The 101ds will have more power. Check your email, i sent you a request for info yesterday.
Man I am just losing track of all the "levels" and options...!
Well, with some Cunningham CX-345s on the way, it may interest some to know that Cunningham was a tube bootlegger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elmer_T._Cunningham) around 1915-20!
Did you get the 245 or 345 Cunninghams? What is the difference?
I think your Cunninghams may still have the best SQ. The 101ds will have more power. Check your email, i sent you a request for info yesterday.
Replied to.
Man I am just losing track of all the "levels" and options...!
Agreed - it is in a state of constant flux! Bascially if you buy one of these DACs you should do so in the knowledge that it may be superseded/changed/removed from the model line up in a short period of time.
Mind you other manufacturers do the same.
Agreed - it is in a state of constant flux! Bascially if you buy one of these DACs you should do so in the knowledge that it may be superseded/changed/removed from the model line up in a short period of time.
Mind you other manufacturers do the same.
Like Apple!
LoL
The benefit of short lead time for development. Also, the Dacs can all be refurbed later on for reasonable cost due to the hand built nature...
J,
Lukasz just confirmed to me that the 101d tube will work on ALL Big7/Level 7 dacs as a drop in replacement for the 45 triodes! The circuit is robust enough to accept both.
Only the 2A3 setup is different and unless there is a switch to throw, 45s and 101ds wont work in the 2A3 setup.
Hm... I'm going to do some medieval tests on the Big 7... I'm thinking something and I'd like to see if the measurebating supports the perception.
The metal cased 7 is no more according to the website - orders, or 95% of them appear to be for the Big 7.
The B7 now seems to have a 101D option. So three output triodes are now available for use in this DAC. Excellent flexibility. I'm stuck with the choice of two being the first UK B7 owner. No problem, if I want to explore the 101D I'm sure it could be arranged. For a few dollars more...
No mods needed for 101d.
I did compare 45 and 101D specs and thought "probably not", but if the man says so... thanks for that wisnon.
Hm... there's a pair of WE tennis ball type 101Ds on ebay USA (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Western-Electric-101-D-D-86326-tennis-ball-tubes-101-D-matching-pair-/281443202282?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item41875274ea)for a mere $2,200:D Actually I don't think those particular ones will fit as all four pins look to be the same diameter.
The Psvane replica (http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/psvane-western-electric-101d-101d-l-replica-vacuum-tubes-pair/) looks interesting, but I'd be amazed if it beats the Cunningham's, which are just superb.
The TJs are probably good for the money I reckon. Let me know how the cheap Shuguangs compare to the Cunningham's when your Big 7 arrives:) If the Shuguangs win I'll fall off my seat!
Hm. TJs not thought highly of here (http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/64448-rolling-101ds/), but the Psvane re-issue is. Might give it a go at some stage.
DSD rant and internal pics: http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2966. Worth following the AudioCircle link at the end of the thread, too.
Triode pile so far...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-II3JnSkdV_E/VFY3KAB_9yI/AAAAAAAACQY/nG4tzWYgdjQ/w1007-h567-no/DSC01560.JPG
I am finding 6.3 Volt triodes, working in the 45 position to give the best results so far. Quite why this is the case I do not know.
The VT52, pictured below, is probably the 2nd best so far. It seems to me to sound the most accurate. It gives some superbly controlled, weighty bass, which the 45 triodes don't quite have, with excellent separation of individual instruments. It really is supremely clear. The soundstage is relatively closed in compared to some of the contenders, but it just sounds so subjectively precise. Like it isn't acting and trying to BIG things up. I really like it.
If anyone understands US Army Signal Corps order codes I wonder if the 42 stands for 1942, in which case those boxes are OLD. These are claimed unused.
More on the VT52 can be found here (http://www.vt52.com/). It is a curious valve to say the least.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Epfu_pyR_7g/VFY2vaRKswI/AAAAAAAACQA/1mWu__q5e1w/w1007-h567-no/DSC01558.JPG
Greater familiarity with the Cunningham CX-345 and afterwards the Philco 45 reveals a mild issue with these tubes, for me.
It became apparent after sometime that there is some sort of mid-range hype with both of these. They give immense mid-range detail. On some program material that just doesn't work, on others it does, and on other stuff you just don't notice it. After a while I found myself hitting them with about -2 to 4DB parametric EQ at 4KHz with a Q ranging from 0.5 to 1, depending on program, mood, and, well, just what I felt like entering with the material playing. This tames the mid range hype considerably. It isn't something you really want to have to do, though.
Make no mistake, these are lively, fast sounding valves.
Whilst the bass is good, it doesn't match the VT52 or even the next contender.
CX-345 globe
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YpYuFzrpmqg/VFY1vn0X9CI/AAAAAAAACPk/Z5rwAMP2lc0/w1007-h567-no/DSC01552.JPG
Philco 45 - ST shape. Quite petite, really.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-q7Bq4fhnWHI/VFY11YDcUWI/AAAAAAAACP0/0nEXY4ZoVYU/w1007-h567-no/DSC01553.JPG
And now for the cheapest valves so far. I paid the precise sum of £52.60 for these.
I had read on some site a post by someone who seemed to have tried a veritable wealth of different triodes. On top of that list he rated the 6A3 the best he tried. Better check some out, I thought.
So, enter the Tung Sol smoked glass 6A3. These things are ridiculously great sounding devices. Soundstage size is somewhere between the EML and the VT52. Bass, mid-range and treble is all top class with these. They really are euphonic buggers from top to bottom. Quite how they manage to pull it off with all sorts of program material I do not know, but they do.
The priority here seems to be just to sound great regardless. Probably not too accurate but amazingly not super-coloured sounding either.
There don't seem to be many left, but the price is a joke for the performance on offer, at least in this DAC. There seem to be a lot of 6B4G valves around. May try those next with an adaptor. There is someone stateside saying the Sylvania 6A3 is even better. Less confused on complex passages, but TBH I don't hear much confusion going on with the Tung Sol. That said, the Sylv. VT52 IS cleaner, so I can see that maybe the Sylv. 6A3 has a similar type of sound to the Sylv. VT52.
The Tung Sols are used but measure very well. They are NOT good in the 2A3 position - they sound distorted. They go over the 6.2 Watts max I found out later - 6.5 I am told.
Excellent results are also being reported with the 300B in the 2A3 switch position.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bnJ9LOK1MIk/VFY10ttqJ8I/AAAAAAAACPs/Pbkaxo1XtIQ/w1007-h567-no/DSC01554.JPG
6A3 inspired by Interstage Tranny's post here here (http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=tubes&m=245038).
300B results will of course depend on which 300Bs you use. If the thoriated tungsten ELROGs weren't so expensive...
I got the Hytron VT52s, and 6A3s I have one Lafayette and one Tung Sol that look the same construction
Well one of my Tung Sols is branded Aristocrat (didn't show it in the pic), but it is defo a Tung Sol.
Congrats I reckon you have picked well Kedar. Journey hasn't ended. There may be better still out there!
However, if anything beats the TS 6A3 I'll be amazed. That is to my ears in my system. Some speakers/ears will favour other valves I am sure.
Great thread Justin, a very interesting read - its a little tricky (for people like me who are a little new to tubes anyway) to keep up with all the tubes you've tested and how you rank them, and what their positives/negatives are.
Any chance of a quick summary of how you rank the tubes you've tested and a brief review of sound stage size/focus/separation, detail retrieval/resolution and bass definition/extension relative to one another and to the stock tubes that come with the B7, plus a quick comment on the overall presentation (warm, smooth, clinical etc) of each?
Gareth general consensus is 6A3, VT52s, 45s and 101Ds are all good. VT52s are super 45s, which are 45s with a bit more power. Also, 6A3 and VT52s, if you can get them, are available relatively cheap. VT52 will go up to $400 for the pair, I think, 6A3 cheaper. The Western Electric 101Ds are $2000.
So given that, it is safe to start off with a 6A3 and a VT52. 300Bs are also expensive, so better demo 300b and 101D if you can before buying. For the others, it is easier to buy on faith.
Kedar's summary is good.
There's quite a lot of info in the thread. I haven't the time/inclination to supply much more.
Gareth - do you own a Big 7 (are your system details out of date?)
Kedar's summary is good.
There's quite a lot of info in the thread. I haven't the time/inclination to supply much more.
Gareth - do you own a Big 7 (are your system details out of date?)
Fair enough. No I don't have a B7 at this point.
Basically if you do get one Gareth try at least a few valve types to tune it to your tastes/system. Your tastes won't be mine I suspect, not the least because of the rest of your system. You can deduce my ranking order from what I have said.
Enjoy:)
There is a nice B7 tube shootout here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129512.0
And here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129085.0
Lads on a Level4 reading a variety of threads a few valves are suggested for the ECC40 valves. Tungsram, Phillips white label and on occasion some strange variants.
What valves will work in that position and where are you buying them? Thanks in advance.
Hi Justin,
Very nice tubes you have there. I own the two-box L7 DAC and I can confirm the effect of tube rolling. You may also want to roll the rectifier tube as well, yours' 6x5 or 5U4G? I found the Raytheon 6x5 much better than the Russian counterpart.
I wonder if you just plug the 6A3 into the Big7 and run it without modification? I think the 6A3 has 6 volt filament while the 45/2A3 has 2.5V so that means the 6A3 will be running with a very low filament voltage: ~2.5V vs 6V. Similar for the VT-52 which has 7V filament. This may work just fine as tubes are very resilient.
Happy listening.
Jack
The Sylvania VT52 is 6.3V. Lucasz says it is fine to use them, as is the 6A3.
I really don't like the Raytheon, which just goes to show.
You are right about voltages otherwise. 6A3 - don't try it in a 2A3 setup L7. It sounds distorted.
As I have said you exceed allowable Wattage with 6A3 in the 2A3 position.
jandl100
14-11-2014, 10:26
This is an amazingly nerdy thread, even by hifi forum standards! :lol:
Carry on as you were ... :popcorn: ...
Lads on a Level4 reading a variety of threads a few valves are suggested for the ECC40 valves. Tungsram, Phillips white label and on occasion some strange variants.
What valves will work in that position and where are you buying them? Thanks in advance.
ECC40 doesn't have much in the way of rolling options. Most were made by Tungsram. I have some Tungsram totally NOS apart from 3 hours use. PM if interested.
Does your Lampi have any other sockets?
Gareth general consensus is 6A3, VT52s, 45s and 101Ds are all good. VT52s are super 45s, which are 45s with a bit more power. Also, 6A3 and VT52s, if you can get them, are available relatively cheap. VT52 will go up to $400 for the pair, I think, 6A3 cheaper. The Western Electric 101Ds are $2000.
So given that, it is safe to start off with a 6A3 and a VT52. 300Bs are also expensive, so better demo 300b and 101D if you can before buying. For the others, it is easier to buy on faith.
Forget about vintage WE 101ds...overpriced unobtanium! Try the metal base PSVANE W.E. Replica 101ds for about $550 on Ebay. I agree with Justin that the 6A3 (typically $150) a pair on Ebay is by far the best buy. It MAY be just shaded by the Sophia Electric Carbon Princess 300b (2.5v NOT 5V as the normal 300Bs are). These go for about $525 a pair with 30 day warranty and are meant as a 2A3 replacement tube.
Lads on a Level4 reading a variety of threads a few valves are suggested for the ECC40 valves. Tungsram, Phillips white label and on occasion some strange variants.
What valves will work in that position and where are you buying them? Thanks in advance.
Most are the same...tall with the skirt. i have seen short ones with the skirt by eother Sonotone or Selectron. Then there is the squat no skirt Tungram, which i though was the only different construction. However, I have since seen Siemens which had identical construction.
The consensus is that the Mullards CV3884 are the worst, in that they are the least robust. All ECC40 tubes sound good, but the Tungram squat construction tube type seems to shade the other types in tersm of midrange and bass.
In terms of skirted tubes, I have seen Mullards, Phillips, Triotron, Selectron and Sonotone. I think Siemens ALSO has a skirted version too.
Hi Justin,
Very nice tubes you have there. I own the two-box L7 DAC and I can confirm the effect of tube rolling. You may also want to roll the rectifier tube as well, yours' 6x5 or 5U4G? I found the Raytheon 6x5 much better than the Russian counterpart.
I wonder if you just plug the 6A3 into the Big7 and run it without modification? I think the 6A3 has 6 volt filament while the 45/2A3 has 2.5V so that means the 6A3 will be running with a very low filament voltage: ~2.5V vs 6V. Similar for the VT-52 which has 7V filament. This may work just fine as tubes are very resilient.
Happy listening.
Jack
Consensus is that for 6x5, the TungSol metal base is best (very hard to find), followed by RCA and Sylvania ceramic bases. All US rectis tend to beat the Russian ones too.
Regarding the L7 tube setting, the circuit auto balances itself for total wattage, so whatever combo of volts and amps that get to 4.5w max and 6.5w max will work....so I have been told.
ECC40 doesn't have much in the way of rolling options. Most were made by Tungsram. I have some Tungsram totally NOS apart from 3 hours use. PM if interested.
Does your Lampi have any other sockets?
No, most were the skirted kind made by Phillips. Tungsram appears to be better! Send a pair to Lukasz if you can, as I dont think he has heard them. My local guys no longer has any.
No, most were the skirted kind made by Phillips. Tungsram appears to be better! Send a pair to Lukasz if you can, as I dont think he has heard them. My local guys no longer has any.
Er yup sorry Norm memory failed me there.
RCA 6X5s ceramic base seem to be managing to stay in the Lampi at the mo. They can't be bad. I have two pairs - unfortunately the black plates don't work. I'm listening to greys now. Got a full refund on the blacks but they were peanuts anyway.
The Sylvania VT52 is 6.3V. Lucasz says it is fine to use them, as is the 6A3.
I really don't like the Raytheon, which just goes to show.
You are right about voltages otherwise. 6A3 - don't try it in a 2A3 setup L7. It sounds distorted.
As I have said you exceed allowable Wattage with 6A3 in the 2A3 position.
Interesting. The bias current is rather low in the L7 so it may not be too big an issue. I have been researching this very topic recently, i.e., running filament at below-spec voltage, and so far the findings with respect to tube life is inconclusive. However if it sounds good then that's what counts.
Consensus is that for 6x5, the TungSol metal base is best (very hard to find), followed by RCA and Sylvania ceramic bases. All US rectis tend to beat the Russian ones too.
Regarding the L7 tube setting, the circuit auto balances itself for total wattage, so whatever combo of volts and amps that get to 4.5w max and 6.5w max will work....so I have been told.
I never saw Tungsol metal base before. Need to start looking. For the RCA/Sylvania ceramic bases are their base in white color? I have some RCA/Sylvania ones but the base is not in white ceramic color. I'll need to try those sometimes.
I am not certain but I suspect the L7 is cathode-biased so the bias will stabilize itself. I'm not sure what 'wattage' is referring to. Is it the filament wattage or plate dissipation?
Can someone who might have a clue about how this circuit actually works please step in and explain it simply? It would be appreciated by quite a few people I am sure.
Most are the same...tall with the skirt. i have seen short ones with the skirt by eother Sonotone or Selectron. Then there is the squat no skirt Tungram, which i though was the only different construction. However, I have since seen Siemens which had identical construction.
The consensus is that the Mullards CV3884 are the worst, in that they are the least robust. All ECC40 tubes sound good, but the Tungram squat construction tube type seems to shade the other types in tersm of midrange and bass.
In terms of skirted tubes, I have seen Mullards, Phillips, Triotron, Selectron and Sonotone. I think Siemens ALSO has a skirted version too.
Thanks Norman swapped out whatever Lukasz supplied for a Sylvannia kindly donated to me. Haven't pulled out the ECC40's but take it they are Mullards?
Where did you get the Tungsram valves? Are there various Tungsram styles or is whatever one I find squat construction
Are these the ones? http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Tungsram-ECC40-CV3884-double-triode-/390690968369
or these http://pmcomponentsnos.co.uk/Tungsram-ECC40 Same shop different price
Yes they are the ones I have.
Singularly stupid pin out on them though, which makes it hard to line up in the Lampi. Make very sure the nipple in the glass lines up with the red marker Lucasz or someone will have put on the valve base. It is perfectly possible to put it in the wrong way.
Yes they are the ones I have.
Singularly stupid pin out on them though, which makes it hard to line up in the Lampi. Make very sure the nipple in the glass lines up with the red marker Lucasz or someone will have put on the valve base. It is perfectly possible to put it in the wrong way.
Thanks Justin, Will give them a go and hopefully will put them in right. Not sure Why Lukasz went with the notion of installing the valves in the base:scratch:
Sorry this is a Big7 thread so to move it back on topic do owners think it is a bit of work of art? Not sure has he just managed to stumble upon the design of clear/semi clear perspex lid. For me it is an understated art piece that just happens to sound better than anything else I have heard to date.
Thanks Norman swapped out whatever Lukasz supplied for a Sylvannia kindly donated to me. Haven't pulled out the ECC40's but take it they are Mullards?
Where did you get the Tungsram valves? Are there various Tungsram styles or is whatever one I find squat construction
Are these the ones? http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Tungsram-ECC40-CV3884-double-triode-/390690968369
or these http://pmcomponentsnos.co.uk/Tungsram-ECC40 Same shop different price
Yes, That is the Tungsram I was talking about.
I never saw Tungsol metal base before. Need to start looking. For the RCA/Sylvania ceramic bases are their base in white color? I have some RCA/Sylvania ones but the base is not in white ceramic color. I'll need to try those sometimes.
I am not certain but I suspect the L7 is cathode-biased so the bias will stabilize itself. I'm not sure what 'wattage' is referring to. Is it the filament wattage or plate dissipation?
Sorry, my bad. Black or brown base, not white base.
TSol metal base is verrrry hard to find. I have never seen it, but the yanks have gone out of their way to vouch for the quality…From a practical point of view, just try fro black/brown base RCA/Syl. 6x5.
Yes they are the ones I have.
Singularly stupid pin out on them though, which makes it hard to line up in the Lampi. Make very sure the nipple in the glass lines up with the red marker Lucasz or someone will have put on the valve base. It is perfectly possible to put it in the wrong way.
Yes, just use an indelible marker to line up the nipple correctly with the mark made on the socket.
The underside mounting was to allow tube rolls without opening the case and to allow the component to be stacked in a normal audio rack.
Yes, just use an indelible marker to line up the nipple correctly with the mark made on the socket.
The underside mounting was to allow tube rolls without opening the case and to allow the component to be stacked in a normal audio rack.
The correct base for a ecc40 prevents incorrect lineup.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2N1gxNjAw/z/s6kAAOxySy9SOb6Y/$%28KGrHqFHJEQFIpnL%28Pj2BSOb6%283Nw!~~60_35.JPG
ALRAINBOW
16-11-2014, 15:23
I have rolled a bunch of tubes. 6a3 of any brand are very good . the tonsil as some regard as really good are but in truth I prefer the Sylvania and relabled Sylvania's over it. the green writing or green leaf are very good. if looking for new the Sophia princess blacks are also very good. thevt52 are ok but lack a bit. the psvane 101d metal is nice but thin in comparison to the 6a3. I do feel the rolling is fantastic to allow us to tailor our systems to get the sound we crave and cheap . doing the rolling in the dac is better than in cables and the change is massive in some cases.
I wish I could write much more of what I hear but lack the time to do so .
rolling a lampi is the most fun I have had in audio in a long time. roll on people.
al
Al have you tried 6B4Gs with an adaptor yet? If so what did you think?
Anyone with a pair of ELROG 300Bs is most welcome here. Just state which bottle of expensive wine you require before you show up:)
The correct base for a ecc40 prevents incorrect lineup.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2N1gxNjAw/z/s6kAAOxySy9SOb6Y/$%28KGrHqFHJEQFIpnL%28Pj2BSOb6%283Nw!~~60_35.JPG
Looks rare and NOS but capable of using the nipple. Most ECC40 sockets on ebay have no such provision. Good find Nick.
Looks rare and NOS but capable of using the nipple. Most ECC40 sockets on ebay have no such provision. Good find Nick.
This plugs into the valve and the socket on the LZ? is there space i.e. will it end up pushing the valve to high and it ends up protruding from the base? (Should turn mind upside down to check first!!) Where did you locate this socket Nick?
I have some somewhere, the ecc40 is a nice sounding valves used it for a number of things. This chap seems to have a few.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B8A-RIMLOCK-VALVE-BASES-ECC40-ETC-CHASSIS-MOUNTING-CERAMIC-/271488548134?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item3f35fa7d26
I have some somewhere, the ecc40 is a nice sounding valves used it for a number of things. This chap seems to have a few.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B8A-RIMLOCK-VALVE-BASES-ECC40-ETC-CHASSIS-MOUNTING-CERAMIC-/271488548134?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item3f35fa7d26
Nick that is chassis mounting it would need to be doctored to work on LZ.
Not saying you should fit it, just that its the correct socket for a ecc40 (b8a rimlock) if it had used them there would be no chance of the valve being inserted incorrectly.
Not saying you should fit it, just that its the correct socket for a ecc40 (b8a rimlock) if it had used them there would be no chance of the valve being inserted incorrectly.
I know Nick it just looked like your original photo was of one that could be fitted to either the socket or valve and if it cost £3.50 I would get it to be sure.
Lukasz doesn't recommend any tube rolling and suggests the valves will last 10+yrs as they are very under stressed hence he either skimped or didn't see the need.
Or just didn't cop it.
bmichels
17-11-2014, 00:12
No more news about the HeadDAC BIG 7 (Big7 with built-in Headphone AMP) ?
Nice long term Lampi review here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130389.0
He writes well. But then you have to ask yourself how much does wanky prose count for over actually sitting in front of the things for real and deciding for yourself whether he is talking b****x or not:D?
I rate the later. But if the literacy appeals enough to get you in front of these products in the first place I guess it has achieved the effect I presume he wanted.
It made the front page…
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/611-living-lampis/
ALRAINBOW
25-11-2014, 22:09
I have a few sets of the tubes. The adaptors I bought do not work. They are wired wrong. I intend to fix them soon. And report back. So far the leader for me is 6a3. But a friend who had my tubes a whole bunch feels the 300 B carbon just edged them out. And I truly trust his call. I have heard his set up and it's very clean and transparent. The improvement is minor but it's there.
I also have Elrogs coming and a few others.
At conclusion rolling tubes is a cheap way to change ones sound signature and is fun an rewarding. It allows me to set the mood if not explore sounds without breaking the bank.
Al
Those Sophia Carbons are 2.5v 300Bs, not the normal 5v 300b.
LoL
Too funny!
Pretty rough on the chap that wrote it, but it made a point. Anyway, looks like he's done OK with it:)
I have a few sets of the tubes. The adaptors I bought do not work. They are wired wrong. I intend to fix them soon. And report back. So far the leader for me is 6a3. But a friend who had my tubes a whole bunch feels the 300 B carbon just edged them out. And I truly trust his call. I have heard his set up and it's very clean and transparent. The improvement is minor but it's there.
I also have Elrogs coming and a few others.
At conclusion rolling tubes is a cheap way to change ones sound signature and is fun an rewarding. It allows me to set the mood if not explore sounds without breaking the bank.
Al
Yeah I hope the sockets last Al. Change of speaker means I'm evaluating them all again. Please post on the ELROGs I'm most interested.
Some great reading going on over at the Wam. (http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?113383-Lampizator-vs-AN-UK-Top-DACs)
I dunno where the assertion that a Big 7 costs £10K came from though. Mine cost £4K less than that. A new AN 4.1 is way over £10K.
Some good points/tempers flaring in classic Wam styleeee. No place like the Wam:)
I actually agree with some of the anti statements. When people speak their minds on topics they feel emotional about it really does get interesting.
Some great reading going on over at the Wam. (http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?113383-Lampizator-vs-AN-UK-Top-DACs)
I dunno where the assertion that a Big 7 costs £10K came from though. Mine cost £4K less than that. A new AN 4.1 is way over £10K.
Some good points/tempers flaring in classic Wam styleeee. No place like the Wam:)
I actually agree with some of the anti statements. When people speak their minds on topics they feel emotional about it really does get interesting.
I think 10k is the dollar figure
Sounds about right but I did go cheap i.e. no DSD and 6X5 recti. But I have 274Bs in the preamp so boring to meet up with that again in a DAC. Besides, the 1950s Tungsram 6X5 is an absolute peach I am well happy with.
I did some more tube rolling on my Lampi DAC 7. It's the two-box version but I have mod the filament supply voltage to allow more precise control of the voltage and with improved ripple performance.
Rectifier: 6x5
So far I tried the stock Russian 6x5 (coarse sound), Raytheon 6x5GT and Sylvania 6x5GT. I liked the Raytheon the best as it has the best balance between resolution and refinement. The Sylvania is too polite in comparison. Note it could be due to the samples I have as I'm not sure the ones I have are NOS or not.
Output Tube:
EH 2A3 - This is the stock tube and I found it to lack life and extensions. Not recommended.
Sovtek 2A3 - This one is a surprise as it sounds fairly good. Good extensions and resolutions. Not the ultimate in refinement but with incisive bite. Sounds best when run with low filament (1.8V vs 2.5V). Good value for money.
EML 45/45 Mesh - Refined but lacks some excitement. Note the 45s I have may be too used so newer tubes may sound better. Not recommended.
EML 2A3/2A3 Mesh - The solid plate 2A3 sounds more extended than the 45 and have better resolution. The mesh plate 2A3, however, is even better by a wide margin. It has the best balance and resolution, refined and yet lively. The mesh plate 2A3 is by far the best in my L7 by a wide margin. Highly recommended.
I'd still need to try some old stock 45 of which there are plenty of variants - even mesh plates. May also get some 6A3 and 101D (or even 205D) to try as well. This DAC is a tube-roller's dream as the output stage is so simple and the power supply is easy to mod.
Happy listening!
An update - the Psvane 101D-L and 205D-L arrived. These tubes have 4.5v filament.
The 101D-L can be run under the 45 setting in my L7. The secret is the lower filament current (1A vs 1.5A for the 45) and this results in less voltage drop by the filament supply resistors, thus leading to higher than 2.5V actual filament voltage. It is still a bit low - ~3.9V in my L7. I also tried it with the 2A3 setting but the resultant voltage is too high at ~5V.
The 101D-L is running at ~11.5mA bias current in my L7. This is higher than the spec (9mA) so the tube is being run under high load conditions. Not sure if this will affect tube life in the long run. It's probably fine for the Psvane 101D but I certainly won't risk any WE 101D with this operating condition.
The 205D-L by comparison is designed for output stage so it works fine at such bias current. It draws 1.6A filament current so I have to run it at the 2A3 setting to arrive at ~4.4V filament voltage, which is about right for the 205D.
Now for the sound, my brief impression is that the 101D sounds better than the 205D, with more air, transparency, and life. Comparing to my current reference - EML 2A3 Mesh the 101D is more polite, less airy, and with less micro-details. So the EML 2A3 Mesh is still the best by far. Note that I have only run the 101D/205D for minutes so their sound may change upon further run-in.
The thing about the L7 is that the filament supply is not regulated and is tuned by dropping resistors. Thus I think it is a good idea to have a UX4 test adapter to check the actual operating conditions before running a new tube for the long run.
Happy new year everyone!
Hi Jack - I'd be interested to know what you make of the 6A3. I tried it again in the 2A3 switch position and didn't hear the distortion I thought I did last time I tried it. Odd.
I think the only thing for a level 7 owner to do is stock up on about half a dozen triodes and then decide for themselves. Due to the cost of the DAC most owners will do this anyway as it is relatively small beer unless you decide to pay ridiculous premiums for valves that cannot possibly justify their price. At the end of the day systems and ears vary.
That said the most sensible short list of valves to try come from reading threads like this. The trouble is there are conflicts as people hear different things.
It is interesting that 101D came out better than 205D even though it was a less than optimal electrical match. Half the reason for the marked variance in sound when trying different valves in this DAC is that some will be operating at quite some distance from their supposed optimal settings.
I was at the 2008 HK Hi-Fi show when staying in Mongkok, Jack. Very nearly as good as Munich in terms of gear.
HNY.
Justin
HNY Justin,
I dont know where you guys manage to find cheap VT52 tubes. i never seem to be able to find that. LoL
hifinutt
31-12-2014, 20:00
The MSB DACs were in a lot of rooms at Munich 2011. From what I can remember, they all sounded great. This was probably my fave room using one. Video shot by me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCTuCc8nqBw
I am a great fan of msb , using their power amp with superb results for quite a while now .
one day hope to try the msb dac but the lampi would also do nice
HNY Justin,
I dont know where you guys manage to find cheap VT52 tubes. i never seem to be able to find that. LoL
Yo Norman I'll send you mine. Happy Lampizating New Year!!!:)
Yo Norman I'll send you mine. Happy Lampizating New Year!!!:)
2015 should be a great year for everything, including Lampizating. LoL
Fully foo'd.
Golden Gate Big 7 (http://www.lampizator.eu/NEWDAC/Lampizator/The_Golden_Gate_DAC.html)
Just discovered there is a manual for all Lampi DACs,
From that manual (http://www.lampizator.eu/LampizatorDACUserManual.pdf):
DHT triodes used in our Level7 and Big 7 DAC are yet another can of worms. Most
DHT tubes have the same base (four pin) and the same pinout (two fat legs are
heaters and cathode, two slim legs are Grid and Anode. The problem is that these
tubes have completely different heater demands. Our DAC7 is designed to accept
ALL KNOWN dht triodes from this group: 101D, 45, 245, 345, 6A3, 2A3, 300B.
People keep discovering more and more compatible triode types every month.
How is it possible to run so many triode types in one circuit ? DON’T THEY HAVE
DIFFERENT HEATERS ?
Our genius circuit automatically detects the current demand and adjusts voltage
accordingly. We added a switch which divides the tubes into two groups: high heaters
and low heaters. High heaters are 2A3, 300B, 6A3 and low heaters are 101D, 45, 245,
345.
Our favorite tubes are: (New) Sovtek and Electro Harmonics 2A3 - this is actually the
same tube but Sovtek is a cheaper brand.
45 by Emission Labs (New). 245 and 345 NOS from Sylvania, Tung-Sol and RCA.
101D by Psvane WE Replica (New). Nos 6A3 from any US brand. 300B Mesh Black
from Psvane.
User211 Stated:
They (the 6A3’s) are NOT good in the 2A3 position - they sound distorted. They go over the 6.2 Watts max I found out later - 6.5 I am told.
Later User211 Wrote:
6A3 - don't try it in a 2A3 setup L7. It sounds distorted.
Later, User211 stated:
Hi Jack - I'd be interested to know what you make of the 6A3. I tried it again in the 2A3 switch position and didn't hear the distortion I thought I did last time I tried it. Odd.
Because of the above posts, I used the 6A3's in the 45 switched position but wasn’t really happy with some stridency I heard in the upper frequency range. I later tried them in the 2A3 position and they sounded quite superb, substantially better than the much more expensive Emmission Labs 45’s that came with the DAC! However, when I listened to the system a day or 2 later, I was hearing objectionable distortion like User211 stated above -- distortion one time, the next NONE!
However, in an even later post User211 provided a link to a “Manual” for all Lampi DAC’s (BTW, this was a valuable find; Lukasz did a wonderful job of providing information, not commonly found in Manuals. Kudos to Lukasz!)
From the manual, User211 provided the following:
Our genius circuit automatically detects the current demand and adjusts voltage accordingly. We added a switch which divides the tubes into two groups: high heaters and low heaters. High heaters are 2A3, 300B, 6A3 and low heaters are 101D, 45, 245, 345..
This would suggest that the 6A3 should be run in the 2A3 switched positon. Which, based on my initial finding, sounded darn good!
But, since both I and User211 had a positive experience and then later, a distorted one, I’m wondering what the heck is going on?
Is the “genius circuit” not automatically detecting the current demand and adjusting according? Between sessions, I used my remote's Off button, to I assume, put the DAC in the standby mode. NOTE: I didn’t use the On/Off toggle in the back of the unit.
[BTW, as an aside, is this what everyone does between listening sessions: engage the front Lampi button, or in the case of using a remote, use its Off button, to put the unit in Standby?]
I wonder if using the remote's Off button one day and then its On button the next day, did something to cause the “genius circuit” to NOT adjust properly?
Ultimately however, should the 6A3 be run in the 2A3 positon and how can I get it to run undistorted, the way I first heard it? How are others running the 6A3 and is distortion ever a problem?
ALRAINBOW
06-03-2015, 07:08
User211 Stated:
Later User211 Wrote:
Later, User211 stated:
Because of the above posts, I used the 6A3's in the 45 switched position but wasn’t really happy with some stridency I heard in the upper frequency range. I later tried them in the 2A3 position and they sounded quite superb, substantially better than the much more expensive Emmission Labs 45’s that came with the DAC! However, when I listened to the system a day or 2 later, I was hearing objectionable distortion like User211 stated above -- distortion one time, the next NONE!
However, in an even later post User211 provided a link to a “Manual” for all Lampi DAC’s (BTW, this was a valuable find; Lukasz did a wonderful job of providing information, not commonly found in Manuals. Kudos to Lukasz!)
From the manual, User211 provided the following: .
This would suggest that the 6A3 should be run in the 2A3 switched positon. Which, based on my initial finding, sounded darn good!
But, since both I and User211 had a positive experience and then later, a distorted one, I’m wondering what the heck is going on?
Is the “genius circuit” not automatically detecting the current demand and adjusting according? Between sessions, I used my remote's Off button, to I assume, put the DAC in the standby mode. NOTE: I didn’t use the On/Off toggle in the back of the unit.
[BTW, as an aside, is this what everyone does between listening sessions: engage the front Lampi button, or in the case of using a remote, use its Off button, to put the unit in Standby?]
I wonder if using the remote's Off button one day and then its On button the next day, did something to cause the “genius circuit” to NOT adjust properly?
Ultimately however, should the 6A3 be run in the 2A3 positon and how can I get it to run undistorted, the way I first heard it? How are others running the 6A3 and is distortion ever a problem?
I think we need try and post results. I had a nine pcb b7 and niw a pcb they do act different to the same tubes
This is a learning curve experience. We need to just try and post. Also there is taste here as well. I do remeber some times hearing distortion at times with some tubes. But consider the NOS factor as well there not new tubes. So as individuals they may act different. Just some thoughts to consider
Al
I think we need try and post results. I had a nine pcb b7 and niw a pcb they do act different to the same tubes
This is a learning curve experience. We need to just try and post. Also there is taste here as well. I do remeber some times hearing distortion at times with some tubes. But consider the NOS factor as well there not new tubes. So as individuals they may act different. Just some thoughts to consider
Al
BTW Al, I've enjoyed your posts here and elsewhere, especially your "B7" comments and tube-rolling results.
I agree, there are many variables to consider. But when User211 expressed a similar distortion experience as mine, I found it somewhat coincidental, that our NOS 6A3's themselves, could be an issue. However, stranger things have happened.
At any rate, the sharing of additional tube rolling experiences (especially with 6A3's) was my post's goal and hopefully will result in a better understanding of what's going on and what tubes everyone is finding to be their preference in their Lampi 7's.
Cheers,
-Mike
Hi Mike,
I have been running 6A3 in the high heater position for a good long while. They have sounded fine and for some reason I have not heard the distortion I knew I heard before.
Anyway, on balance they are getting the most usage of all the triodes I have bought. They must therefore be my favourite. I am itching to try the more expensive Psvane 101D though.
One thing I am thinking could be a possibility is the 6A3s I have probably haven't been run for decades for any period of time, and the high heater just pushed them into a funny state. See what I said about the Raytheon rectifier being noisy for 5 minutes. Maybe they have just stabilised now? Who knows...
And yeah - better than smooth plate EML 45s by a long shot I think. For £60 odd quid:lol:
Hi User211, by "high heater", would that be with the 7’s toggle in the 45 position (i.e., not the 2A3) position?
I listened extensively today with the 6A3 in the 2A3 position. Simple, less complex music (e.g., Rebecca Pigeon/Spanish Harlem) sounds really good. More complex orchestral music &/or rock seems to become a little congested (maybe distorted?). I still remain firmly ensconced in the non-committal auditioning stage however....
As of yet, I haven’t rolled the Shuguang 274B rectifier, but am considering a WE422A or Mullard Metal Base 5AR4.
Obviously there are significant system and personal variables that affect judging whether one tube in our DAC tops another. However, rather than drop bucks on fairly expensive tubes that I will never use – i.e., NOS 2A3’s, NOS 245/345 Globes, NOS VT52’s, Psvane Replica 101D’s, etc., verses the EML 45’s that were shipped with my DAC, I’m wondering where I should go from the EML 45’s or the NOS Sylvania 6A3’s that I now own? I’m intrigued by the Psvane Replica 101d, but because of cost have some reservations! Suggestions/recommendations...??
See post #143 for heater description - so it is the opposite of what you have said.
I don't get any congestion with 6A3 no matter what the music type - complex or simple. Given the cost of the DAC $200 for a pair of triodes is small fry I think.
I also have the Psvane Hi-Fi series 300B on loan but it sounds so damn clean - like everything has been polished, literally, I don't like it. So that's not recommended by me at least. All I can suggest is that you read my descriptions of the triodes I have used and take your pick.
I'm back on VT-52 for the moment. I like to change but the three in most constant use are 6A3, Psvane 2A3 and VT-52. VT-52 is the most rolled off HF wise. It'd be interesting to see how close the "genius circuit" is getting to VT-52s supposed optimal running parameters. I'm betting it isn't that close. I still like it though:)
Where did you source your 6A3s from? What I am asking is are you sure they are good?
I've got a bit of time at the moment. I may run some overall system frequency response tests for a few different triodes and see what happens. If it looks interesting I'll post the results.
Hi J,
Did you see Elberoths posts at Audioshark and Compaudiophile?
Here is a link to WBF post:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17009-Lampizator-Big-7&p=308241&viewfull=1#post308241
Cost cutting PCB Big 7 hey? TBH I'd rather have a hardwired version it is easier to fix and mess around with.
I suspect demand has exceeded the practicality of supplying hardwired units.
See post #143 for heater description - so it is the opposite of what you have said.
Because the LampizatOr DAC Manual that your previously linked to http://www.lampizator.eu/LampizatorDACUserManual.pdf suggested that the 6A3 be run in the 2A3 switched position, I’m glad to see that your methodology and it correlates....Thanks for the clarification!
I don't get any congestion with 6A3 no matter what the music type - complex or simple. Given the cost of the DAC $200 for a pair of triodes is small fry I think.
With the 6A3 in the 2A3 position, what I’m hearing of concern may perhaps be defined as distortion and I’m considering it congestion. Terminology aside, on some music, there is a certain sound at a higher volume that is not to my liking. It makes me want to decrease the volume. It’s almost like it is too much of a good thing, if that makes any sense!? Again, I haven’t made any definitive conclusions. I still have some inner-ear congestion in my left ear from a sinus infection from approx. 3-weeks ago. So, my hearing may somewhat be the culprit, or just another variable, of which there are many, that need to be sorted out! I always bounce system tweaks and changes off my son, whose ears are a lot younger than mine. So, I plan on seeking his assessment of the 6A3’s.
Although it’s good that my son didn’t pattern himself after all of my traits (especially the questionable ones….grin), he did inherit the audiophile gene. So it’s always nice having another “educated” set of ears to compare against my seasoned citizen ones!
In the $200 neighborhood, I totally agree with your DAC cost vs tube cost analogy, in fact, that’s why I tried the 6A3’s. But considering $600 for Psvane 101D “Replicas” and considerably more for actual WE’s, when the cost exceeds a couple hundred bucks, I hesitate to buy a pair that I may rarely, if ever use, if they don’t pan out. On the other hand, if I would elect to sell them if they weren't to my sonic liking, I would be more than ready to try more expensive combinations. However, while some may sell tubes without testing them, I wouldn't really want to do so.
Where did you source your 6A3s from? What I am asking is are you sure they are good?
Because I had a similar concern, I sourced the 6A3’s from TubeWorldExpress.com. I have had good luck buying from Brendan in the past. But because I’m without a tester, I can never be absolutely positive that the tubes received are “good”.
I've got a bit of time at the moment. I may run some overall system frequency response tests for a few different triodes and see what happens. If it looks interesting I'll post the results..
The results of any tests would be informative.....
-Mike
I don't think price is that reflective of perceived performance. So I think you are much better off trying cheaper less well known triodes. There are very few NOS 300Bs and 2A3s left at reasonable prices.
Why not try 6B4G with some adaptors that can be had cheaply on ebay?
Also, the Sylvania 6A3 is not what I have - mine are Tung Sol. In my experience valves of the same type by different manufacturers do not sound the same. That is, however, no reason for your 6A3s to sound distorted. Surely if the EML 45s don't suffer from this aren't they really the better option?
If you feel like taking a bit more of a risk http://www.hifishark.com/ is a good search tool for valves. It includes Jap Yahoo auctions. But the translations are well dodgy. They seem to have a lot of WE valves in Japan.
WRT Psvane 101D you could always sell them on quickly if you don't like them. I don't think you'd lose that much money.
I don't think price is that reflective of perceived performance. So I think you are much better off trying cheaper less well known triodes. There are very few NOS 300Bs and 2A3s left at reasonable prices.
Why not try 6B4G with some adaptors that can be had cheaply on ebay?
Also, the Sylvania 6A3 is not what I have - mine are Tung Sol. In my experience valves of the same type by different manufacturers do not sound the same. That is, however, no reason for your 6A3s to sound distorted. Surely if the EML 45s don't suffer from this aren't they really the better option?
If you feel like taking a bit more of a risk http://www.hifishark.com/ is a good search tool for valves. It includes Jap Yahoo auctions. But the translations are well dodgy. They seem to have a lot of WE valves in Japan.
WRT Psvane 101D you could always sell them on quickly if you don't like them. I don't think you'd lose that much money.
Superbly cogent advice User211!
I had not considered the 6B4G. It and perhaps another pair of 6A3's &/or NOS 45's/2A3's may be in order.
In the meantime, re. the rectifier, I have a WE422a on its way. I'm interested in hearing its affect. Rolling the rectifier in my pre-amp was a very worthwhile endeavor. Hopefully, the same will be true of the Big 7!
WE 422a is hardly a cheap rectifier Mike.:eyebrows:;)
I have a pair of EML 274B rectifiers which I will sell you for the right price if you are interested. No more than 50 hours on them for some reason I really like the cheaper punched plate TJ. That's only because it works well with my current setup I wouldn't have said that months ago.
You need to upgrade to the 14K Euro Golden Gate with a recti like that. Top looks nice at any rate. Pretty tempting to start fooing mine with stuff like that. Foo some extra internal bits too.
http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/GOLDEN_GATE_DAC_files/20150219_114358.jpg
WE 422a is hardly a cheap rectifier Mike.:eyebrows:;)
Yep, the 422A isn't “cheap” by any means Justin; however, I ran across a very good testing one that was on the very low side of the 422A price spectrum. It was in the price range of other normally less expensive highly sought after, non-WE rectifiers. If I find a tube that is a keeper, I’m not too concerned about the price as long as it isn’t an unobtanium price. That and least for myself, cables costing more than the hardware they're connected to, are not something that I find economically prudent. So hopefully, the 422A even at a fairly reasonable cost, will be one that is a keeper.
Thanks for your insight Justin. By all means, please keep posting your thoughts and tube rolling experiences re the Lampi 7.
Cheers,
-Mike
PS. You should have a PM from me.....
My impression of the 6A3's is changing as probably the tubes are with some burnin use. They are late of late '40's vintage and as me, they may have been a little gassey; nothing that the getter couldn't burn off :rolleyes:
Nevertheless, their producing the most holographic soundstage that I've ever heard. Separation is pretty amazing. Whether they will ultimately be my primary tubes, I haven't a clue. But, they are sure fun to listen to. Not bad for around $50 a piece!
In the meantime, I post my thoughts when the 422A arrives....
WE 422a is hardly a cheap rectifier Mike.:eyebrows:;)
I have a pair of EML 274B rectifiers which I will sell you for the right price if you are interested. No more than 50 hours on them for some reason I really like the cheaper punched plate TJ. That's only because it works well with my current setup I wouldn't have said that months ago.
You need to upgrade to the 14K Euro Golden Gate with a recti like that. Top looks nice at any rate. Pretty tempting to start fooing mine with stuff like that. Foo some extra internal bits too.
J, its not the top so much that drives up the price. It is the Bugatti internal parts that do it. Boutique parts up the wazzoo. Furutech/Vishay/Duelund silver, etc.
My impression of the 6A3's is changing as probably the tubes are with some burnin use. They are late of late '40's vintage and as me, they may have been a little gassey; nothing that the getter couldn't burn off :rolleyes:
Nevertheless, their producing the most holographic soundstage that I've ever heard. Separation is pretty amazing. Whether they will ultimately be my primary tubes, I haven't a clue. But, they are sure fun to listen to. Not bad for around $50 a piece!
In the meantime, I post my thoughts when the 422A arrives....
6A3 is the best value for money play. I like to use the Phillips metal base GZ34 recti and NU brand 45 triodes as well certain vintage 54uG rectis. I was lucky to score a pair of ST shape WE vintage 101ds for $100 the pair delivered...very weak testing, but they work fine.
This chap has a load of '58 WE 101Ds but the pin size is not compatible. If anyone knows of an adaptor I might go for them.
http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=t393685945
IMHO 6A3 is a strong lesson that price is no indicator of sonics. History has not given it the credit/status it deserves - luckily for us:)
J, its not the top so much that drives up the price. It is the Bugatti internal parts that do it. Boutique parts up the wazzoo. Furutech/Vishay/Duelund silver, etc.
I know Norman.
This chap has a load of '58 WE 101Ds but the pin size is not compatible. If anyone knows of an adaptor I might go for them.
http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=t393685945
IMHO 6A3 is a strong lesson that price is no indicator of sonics. History has not given it the credit/status it deserves - luckily for us:)
Adapter here! http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-plated-WE101D-101F-205D-TO-Shuguang-101D-WE300B-tube-converter-adapter-/191476590105?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c94e4e619
Well found N. However, my oven has bust forking out on a new Neff instead:(
Hi so are these WE-Jan-101ds from 58 good?
I really want the Big7. Far too much £££ though.
Would love to know if anyone has heard the Lite 7!
Hi so are these WE-Jan-101ds from 58 good?
Greg thinks so.
Translation????
I ordered the NEFF yesterday:D
I ordered the NEFF yesterday:D
What is the NEFF
http://johnlewis.scene7.com/is/image/JohnLewis/231767111?$prod_lrg$
It runs hot... 500 deg C max.
Yes, I like the separate volume controls for each channel, as well as the provision of a stereo/mono switch. My only doubts concern the noise of the fan cooling of the twin monoblock power amps?
Yes, I will be using it as a kind of anti-cryo device. When anti-cryo and cryo meet explosive dynamics are guaranteed.
Useful for bake offs too (groan).
New 100 Watt 211 amp from Lampizator. Word is, apparently from the man himself:
"This is our best product to date, outshadowing even the DACs. It is not a typical push-pull, which sounds inferior to SET because of damned PHASE SPLITTER circuit. In our amp we do not split the phase, we do not touch it. On the contrary - our monoblock is effectively TWO SET mono amps in one chassis that share a summator output transformer. So not only the signal is as pure as SET but it also gets error cancellations and humming cancellation due to mirroring of the signals.
All that is possible only with true balanced XLR inputs of balanced audio, but our DACS are all balanced internally. Even the Big7 and Golden Gate are now available as balanced.
211 amp unlike many others has ONLY ONE amplification stage in input section - one SET 803Ecc. And it has extremely powerful White Follower drivers per each phase. All in all the amp represents the simplest purest form of 100 W power possible. "
BTW this is a new amp, not the one on the website at the moment.
anubisgrau
22-04-2015, 08:28
does the nomination of the DACs corresponds to the ranking? like where is DAC 4 rev 4 in comparison with other, like 7?
Below it. There is a big price difference but also quite a big hike in SQ between the two. One is very good, the other outstanding beating far more expensive efforts. Googling will show there are people who have had DACs costing multiple tens of K who prefer the level 7.
Make of that what you will. Lots of good DACs around for far less money.
From WBF:
Blue58 Blue58 is offline
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With great sadness I had to return the Golden Gate Dac to Mark Coles of Sablon Audio and wanted to thank him for the extended loan of the unit.
Why sadness? Because I had no idea how large a leap forward in musical communication the GG could bring, with a little attention to the details.
My initial reservations about its PCM qualities compared to the Audio Aero LaFontaine have been blown out of the water with the addition of the best power cord I have ever heard. The new Sablon Audio Reserva. Without a doubt this cord improved my LaFontaine but did much more for the Golden Gate bringing out all the detail and ambience but more importantly the LIFE of the performance. The gap between AA and GG was now substantial. How can I now go back to the AA and be happy?
Surprisingly, the DSD performance, already at an incredible level prior to the power cord introduction, gained further presence, and ambient detail but the PCM was now much closer to it than ever before. Why PCM is improved to a greater degree than DSD I don't know. I'm sure Mr. 'Sablon' knows.
This Golden Gate had EML solid plate 45s and EML 5u4G as standard. I tried a GZ34 but this reduced the soundstage, dynamics and detail making for a boring sound. The solid plates I know are dynamic champions with plenty of detail but would have liked to hear the mesh plates with a 274b driver. I believe this would have been the ultimate combination in the context of my system. I'm guessing a 101d would be too detailed in my system. The Duo Omega are revealing speakers.
So, the combination of GG, Sablon Reserva power cord and Sablon Panatela USB are as we say in the UK, the dogs b....ks. One heavenly combination.
I now need to fundamentally re-evaluate my system after hearing what the GG can do with both PCM and DSD after paying attention to power cord and tube rolling.
This is the biggest leap forward in sonic performance I've ever witnessed in my 40 yrs of listening. Congratulations to Lukasz and to Mark for phenomenal products.
Ps. Musical selections ranged across, singer songwriter, jazz, classical, rock and electronic/dance. Everything was handled superbly from my Auralic Aries with HD.
Ppss. Bonzo, you have to hear your B7 with the Reserva.
anubisgrau
03-06-2015, 08:04
Was there any writing about Big 6 on this forum? My search engine doesn't give any results....
Try the Audiogon forum, digital section.
Also Audiocircle.com forum.
Golden Gate is booked in for a visit here soon. Pics and impressions to follow.
Lampizator Golden Gate in the kitchen...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MBIGtirhqA
Pre-listen warm up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn3-1XoQSUU
On the way to the system...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ArBddW2l6sVZjuzzSpvsApGoT_5yUwecbfZeU2jaOBk=w1065-h599-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VB-1TUayru2SWkQrLGegmT2Yo5jbLVOxDOkX-KQgeO0=w1065-h599-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0KlU_Lf9GyvctGfJ-LlF9GnAmhE2q7sAK-c_kz_MZxA=w1065-h599-no
Made it...:D
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/D88-J0DJ6UjJ6GhdkOvk1KCz5orutFOekJggMN8CUTc=w1065-h599-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uzTLgYDXVyVvAq5dTsEL_SA5Y2YW_DEmnr6R0JXx0Yo=w1065-h599-no
Psvane 101D output tubes - the WE copies. These seem to be very good indeed.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8L8K3Aymx34IKkcMSjYfiwwBDkvKgU2jEiDwlnT8R_E=w1065-h599-no
More info here. (http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/GOLDEN_GATE_DSD_DAC.html)
If you followed the link, you'll know the Golden Gate is a premium part version of the Big 7. It is also a lot more expensive at £14K. That is a lot of money for a DAC.
We spent about 3 hours listening to it and also my Big 7, for sanity check purposes.
In my opinion, it is obviously a top notch DAC. However, to my ears the gap in performance between a Big 7 and the GG is not that marked. Whilst I think there is a big leap between the level 4 I used to own, and the Big 7, the difference between the Big 7 and the GG is much smaller.
For the last nth in performance if you are considering the GG you may feel it is worth it, but I think you'll need to have deep pockets to want to spend the extra. I'd strongly recommend running a Big 7 against a GG before dropping the cash or making a decision. Those who decide in favour of the GG must be truly fanatical - in all honestly think the Big 7 is not that far behind it.
The session was more academic for me as I won't be going for one at that price, and the owner wanted to hear the new Apogees I have. Both of us enjoyed the session quite a bit I think.
It should be noted that the GG in question has only been used for less than a month, whilst my Big 7 has been in use for far longer. It may just be that with further use the GG's true colours come to the fore. I simply don't know. But if you want the best Lampizator has to offer the GG is it - either this or the balanced version.
does the nomination of the DACs corresponds to the ranking? like where is DAC 4 rev 4 in comparison with other, like 7?
Hi Gordon, go for the seven. The previous dacs are good valve dacs, but while they sound great on midrange like valves, sota dacs will beat them on complex music and details. However 7 onwards is a separate design. It's a direct heated triode (DHT) design.
There are two converts from playback design MPD-5, one provided me feedback there was no competition. Three who.believe Berkeley reference (BADA) was God's gift to digital, have all converted. I have compared it esoteric k01 in two different systems, and both owners preferred the Lampi 7. It was much better. There is a guy who owns both this and the 35k msb stack, and prefers this. Check the below quote comparing to 100k msb.
This guy also owns the Trinity, which is 40kish. I compared the two at his place, and Lampi was much better. When I say much, I am not referring to valve warmth vs SS analyticalness. Lampi is better on slam, speed, bass, and details.
Best is, apart from being great out of the box, it is a tweakophile's wet dream. You can plug in valves at the top to change the sound. You can only do this on variants of the 7. Most of us use Chinese replicas of the original western electric 101ds. Imagine what would happen if people got the original, which are expensive, at 2k USD for the pair.
6 is good for rock and electronic, but of for complex symphonies, details and soundstage, 7 is unbeatable.
The thing is it keeps beating these uber priced dacs because of the DHT design. So it doesn't matter if the dac is 2k or a 100k. Imo it is like comparing a good TT with digital, because TT will always be different..similarly Lampi will always be different, except, unlike TT, mode of operation will be like a dac. If Lampi can be beaten, it will require a high end TT with good vinyl.
Justin had previously sent the 7 back saying it's great but he wouldn't want to spend more. Now he has sent the GG back. Pattern?
That said, I think GG needs to break in a lot, because of the Mundorf caps in the power supply, but I am not planning to upgrade no more
No pattern. 6k to 14k is a leap I won't be making.
Hear it first Kedar. I'm pretty sure it is as I say it is. I'd like to hear the Big 7 Lite out of interest but I doubt I'll pursue it.
If the leap was as big as it was from 4 to 7 I'd be thinking but not for too long.:)
I think the price difference is less, as yours is without any DSD and doesn't have the pre built in, plus the stock tubes are more expensive
The GG had no pre and the 101Ds are only £350 a pair. I assume it had DSD but if so we didn't try it.
Get the WE copies Kedar. I'm going to score a pair.
Then it should be cheaper. It is 14k eur plus vat, here fully loaded it should be 12k.
I have had the 101d replicas for a while. They are unbeatable
You had the cheapo ones in the shot I saw... guess you must have got some since. They're very good but unbeatable? Nah.
Rob reckons EML 45 mesh plate. I didn't like the EML 45 smooth plates much at all. Rob also reckons £14K here. Haggling might get you a deal.
Even Mr Fikus reckons it is expensive...:D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O42foUHofwQ
At the end of the day, the Big 7 is an excellent circuit (world class whatever that means, but it obviously is rated incredibly highly by the majority who have witnessed one) with foo parts exactly where Lukasz said they were needed, and non-foo where he said they weren't. I think he has basically made the GG for those that didn't believe this and asked for extra foo. He knew he could sell them and who can blame him for doing so.
In my opinion he was right the first time. The extra foo may add a little more to the performance but it doesn't amount to a big difference. Diminishing returns, I think, must set in really heavily after the B7 Lite point.
I'd put my money on the B7 Lite being super seriously good VFM compared to a GG, and pretty good compared to a B7.
When I say unbeatable, sort of getting the originals. These will be better than any 6a3s, are better than the more expensive EML gone 45, and should be better than all 300bs unless you like mid range only. They are very detailed, excellent bass, large soundstage, and forward. They are not as smooth as 6a3 or globe 45s.
Even Mr Fikus reckons it is expensive...:D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O42foUHofwQ
At the end of the day, the Big 7 is an excellent circuit (world class whatever that means, but it obviously is rated incredibly highly by the majority who have witnessed one) with foo parts exactly where Lukasz said they were needed, and non-foo where he said they weren't. I think he has basically made the GG for those that didn't believe this and asked for extra foo. He knew he could sell them and who can blame him for doing so.
In my opinion he was right the first time. The extra foo may add a little more to the performance but it doesn't amount to a big difference. Diminishing returns, I think, must set in really heavily after the B7 Lite point.
I'd put my money on the B7 Lite being super seriously good VFM compared to a GG, and pretty good compared to a B7.
Justin, I am hearing that the GG is a lot better. It takes a while to break in due to the Mundorf caps, but unfortunately it just keeps growing and growing and finally blows the B7 out of the water.
I was hoping this was not the case, as I like my B7 being top of the hill.
Go listen to your pal's GG in another month!
No I am in a very satisfied state Norman, TBH:)
I think you should be too.
I honestly recommend you put your B7 up against a GG in the same listening session. You may feel differently of course and I know you are very pro Lampizator but I think you will be surprised.
Oh Justin, I am very satisfied and just as pro-Lampi as you are. However, the darn foo parts DO apparently make a difference. I am not "nervosa" and apart from DSD256 and the bling copper case, I am not even too jealous. LoL
Just hard going from being big man on campus to just another student. LoL
Get a copper top made. Also changing non-critical parts for foo should be easy enough on the DAC you have.
I might do it (or get it done) for kicks but I'm not expecting a huge lift in performance. Any last ounce is always welcome though...
I have a Point to Point B7, so no V shaped tube configuration. I actually like the see thru Perspex top.
However the foo parts are well integrated into the design and only really Lukasz (or his supervised team) could do the upgrade properly. I guess when oredrs slow a bit or when he has more Production capacity, then a foo part refresh could be a more affordable compromise. However, It will be hard to beat the purpose designed GG Dac and the cost difference will not be that great...just that the needed cash flow requirement is spread out over a longer time period.
Based on soooo much feedback in the UK and the US, I am sure the GG has a big uplift. This from people who have traded up from the B7. I think even our mutual pal Greg is smitten by the jump in performance that caught him off guard.
The real surprise that will come (based on my extrapolation of feedback so far) will be a fully decked out Balanced GG with the 211 balanced amps. I am sure Mike B of Audioshark will be all over that. Joe G already has a Bal B7 he loves and GOT his 211amps today, according to the US distributor. I am really waiting to hear critical reporting on that!
Some US GG feedback:
Geardaddy on the GG Dac:
"
I have one too now (#2 in the US) and sadly its a major step up from the B7. I was not expecting that....just Gucci casework and parts for rich idiots was my cynical presumption. Not so. Best digital I have heard or owned. No desire for a TT any longer. Well done Lucas..... and
Clarity, soundstaging, and an organic fluidity and cohesiveness to its presentation whether it be PCM or DSD.....again the breakin process is long and presumably not complete.... ".
Well I am happy for those GG owners who feel/hear what they do.
I would like to hear the 211 monos up against mine., but I have essentially stopped upgrading for a very long time.
cyclopse
25-06-2015, 18:56
Well I am happy for those GG owners who feel/hear what they do.
I would like to hear the 211 monos up against mine., but I have essentially stopped upgrading for a very long time.
We never stop the journey, just pause for a while.
Well I am happy for those GG owners who feel/hear what they do.
I would like to hear the 211 monos up against mine., but I have essentially stopped upgrading for a very long time.
Bal amps?
The key is no phase splitter, so SET sound quality with 85wpc power!
http://www.inearspace.com/#!LampizatOr-Lite-7-The-BIG-DAC/c112t/55f190580cf20cc524a5442d
Interesting bit on valve rolling. The Cunningham CX-345 is the one that, over time, I have used the most. I think the reason is its subjective speed. It just seems to respond so quickly to its input.
I have found a valve that looks interesting that I have not seen used by any Lampy user yet. May take a punt on some.
What tube is that J? Email me if you dont want it public yet.
And the mystery tube is, for Lampy owners worldwide:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2N1gxNjAw/z/wTsAAOxy9eVRMJnF/$(KGrHqN,!iEFD0DW(LE3BRMJnFh,dw~~60_57.JPG
British Post Office VT68_GPO (CV1651, G445B) is electrically similar to Western Electric 101D or 101F (other than the socket) and should work in the same circuits. VT68 has B4 British basing, so you need B4 to UX4 socket adaptors, which are about $17 each on ebay USA.
I scored a pair NOS for £40 - joke cheap really. Billington and ebay have them at higher prices (£30 and £40 each respectively).
The B4 adaptor will let you use PX25 and maybe PX4 amongst I suspect a few others.
Love it when finds like this happen. Two Mullard telephony valves, whose spec sheet was restricted when released.
These may well prove to be excellent (or not:D). Have not got them yet. Will report in a week or two.
Punter "Hey w'appen man Ras?"
Ras "Man feel, in herb confirm. Or so de great reggae poet Linton Kwesi Johnson say."
Punter "Ya man, de righteous Linton. Prophet an' poet man. So why you sittin' by de VT68_GPO Ras?"
Ras "Cos soundz good 'ere man. Haile Selassie - ever livin', ever givin' man."
Man Ras recognises a good sounding triode when he sees one. He ranks dis one highly. Selassie.;)
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/Rastaman_zps3tusf8cm.jpg
The post above was a bit of humour for the Jamaican wisnon, who pops in from time to time.
The B4 to UX4 socket converters arrived from China in record time. The quality is unbelievable for the money - really heavy, quality items with Teflon wiring. I was expecting low quality cheapness TBH, but figurered they'd do the job. The seller id is beidou2012.
The valve itself sounds excellent. Strong ballsy bass and lush mids/highs. Very highly recommended, possibly the best so far with both amps I have at present. As always, you might not find the same.
Jamaica? ...no, she went of her own accord:D
The post above was a bit of humour for the Jamaican wisnon, who pops in from time to time.
The B4 to UX4 socket converters arrived from China in record time. The quality is unbelievable for the money - really heavy, quality items with Teflon wiring. I was expecting low quality cheapness TBH, but figurered they'd do the job. The seller id is beidou2012.
The valve itself sounds excellent. Strong ballsy bass and lush mids/highs. Very highly recommended, possibly the best so far with both amps I have at present. As always, you might not find the same.
Nice...now to find them for a similar price...
Actually Norman stay away from them. They're sounding increasingly distorted. Swapped some other options in and they all sound as I expect.
Unsure why, maybe they're not that happy in the Lampy circuit.
Could it be a faulty pair?
They are 4v, 0.45amps, so within normal range: http://frank.pocnet.net/other/ServiceTypes/cv4-1/CV1651.pdf
Maybe you should send them my way to check out. I should be getting the adapters any day now..
They "looked" as NOS as hell. The boxes look very old but the cardboard condition is otherwise fine. The protective paper/cardboard inside looked like the valves had hardly, if ever been taken out, but they had been, as they had the seller's measurement stickers on.
Ran them in the 45/101D switch position. Filaments emit a normal glow, even with the recent rapid deterioration in sound.
Confusing. Will try them one more time, but that's twice already. Will contact the seller, see what he says.
cyclopse
25-10-2015, 20:29
Golden Gate DSD version sounding fine today at HiFi Live. Was running with a KR 300B output tube.
Thanks
Steve
http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh538/cyclopse14/Mobile%20Uploads/20151025_143426.jpg
Zooming in on that pic they are actually running Psvane WE 101D replicas and a EML 274B rectifier, Steve, I think. Not sure that's what you heard, though.
Anyway glad it sounded good. The hORNS speakers, the box ones at any rate, I like. The actual odd looking horns of theirs I'm not so keen on.
cyclopse
26-10-2015, 08:13
Zooming in on that pic they are actually running Psvane WE 101D replicas and a EML 274B rectifier, Steve, I think. Not sure that's what you heard, though.
Anyway glad it sounded good. The hORNS speakers, the box ones at any rate, I like. The actual odd looking horns of theirs I'm not so keen on.
The show guide lists different valves for the Lamizator for some reason. I quoted from there.
Firebottle
26-10-2015, 08:43
Interesting preamp in that picture as well :eyebrows:
Hint: begins with a K and ends with an N.
+1 for the hORNS Justin, heard them a number of times now.
:)
cyclopse
26-10-2015, 20:02
Interesting preamp in that picture as well :eyebrows:
Hint: begins with a K and ends with an N.
+1 for the hORNS Justin, heard them a number of times now.
:)
Is it a Music First?
Firebottle
27-10-2015, 06:43
No it's the first Firebottle KIN :)
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/Paramotorpilot/Firebottle/P1040937.jpg
cyclopse
27-10-2015, 08:21
No it's the first Firebottle KIN :)
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/Paramotorpilot/Firebottle/P1040937.jpg
I was looking on the right hand side, step up transformer. Wow, it was in good company then. Noted the sound in this room was first class.
They "looked" as NOS as hell. The boxes look very old but the cardboard condition is otherwise fine. The protective paper/cardboard inside looked like the valves had hardly, if ever been taken out, but they had been, as they had the seller's measurement stickers on.
Ran them in the 45/101D switch position. Filaments emit a normal glow, even with the recent rapid deterioration in sound.
Confusing. Will try them one more time, but that's twice already. Will contact the seller, see what he says.
Any update?
No not yet Norman. I'll e-mail the seller now.
The seller did get back, but I think the valves are actually OK. Pretty sure it was just distortion in some Maurizio Belladonna source material that led me to the conclusion. Cross comparing with other valves and they all present the persistent sound in the track with the same odd sounding distortion.
It's a bit like listening to Etherwood by Etherwood. There's distortion running through that, too, and if your not aware it is present in the source, you question your kit.
I was looking on the right hand side, step up transformer. Wow, it was in good company then. Noted the sound in this room was first class.
Kindig it!!!
Not quite up to the cars looks wise, though (http://www.kindigit.com/).;) That is, if you can take American bling.:D
The seller did get back, but I think the valves are actually OK. Pretty sure it was just distortion in some Maurizio Belladonna source material that led me to the conclusion. Cross comparing with other valves and they all present the persistent sound in the track with the same odd sounding distortion.
It's a bit like listening to Etherwood by Etherwood. There's distortion running through that, too, and if your not aware it is present in the source, you question your kit.
So, how do you rate the SQ of those tubes?
I tried running them on high heater yesterday deliberately for a short period. It is quite apparent that distortion increases in this inappropriate mode, so that's another reason they can sound distorted and I have to fess up I may have done that for a while too.
As described earlier, really. Maybe they'd get a high Lucasz rating as they knock out quite a spacious soundstage. He claims Lampizator DACs are priced to that criterion i.e. the better they are at 3Dness, the more the DACs cost. TBH though the degree of 3Dness does seem to be quite triode type related too.
It's a cheap tube and displays a different set of characteristics like they all do, Norman. See if you like them.
jandl100
04-12-2015, 21:19
Justin! - clear some space in your PM inbox, laddie. ;)
This thread is truly insane, with some of the best triodes on the planet being described/used. (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17639-Golden-Gate-DAC-arrives) WE, Takatsuki, EML, KR, ELROG (dodgy?) etc etc.
As always the results will vary depending on tastes, system components etc so a lot of it should be read with this fact in mind.
I'm enjoying Tom's (Montesquieu's) TJ 2A3s at the moment, which have an amazingly open mid range with oodles of detail and an expansive soundstage. Bass is not the best, but the mid range is fantastically enjoyable. Not bad for £95.
Quite fancy some KR PX04 - a UX4 base PX4. Expensive, though. Just lust I doubt I'll go for them.
It is pretty obvious from the link that this DAC turns people into triode/rectifier junkies.
Ordered some KR PX4s, but with a specified by me UX4 base, for an Xmas treat... not a standard base for a PX4, but KR will do it. Nice.
Impressions to follow. Might be a week or two yet, though.
50,000 hits? Not AoSers I'm sure.
Anyway, got them today. They're definitely sounding very nice from the box. More impressions later.
http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/User_211/DSC02941_zpsgcdbdwww.jpg
cyclopse
13-01-2017, 20:21
You must have quite a collection now of different valve options.
Only those listed in this thread minus the TJ 2A3 as one died. Which is a shame as I liked them quite a bit.
The KR PX4 is insane.
Switching from VT-52 to PX4 blows the soundstage wide open to wall perimeter defying levels and dishes up a wealth of mid range detail I have never heard before.
Bass is also surprisingly weighty, full and detailed.
I'm really not sure how it is doing it but I suspect phase and frequency response anomalies are responsible. But maybe not. Applying EQ to tone down the mid and highs doesn't really seem to stop the detail digging as much as you would expect. Perplexing.
A note to Jerry: if you thought my system was highly resolving, you should hear this. It is NUTCASE.
I had a Lampizator EML Special Edition 45 in the system for a few hours, but it definitely sounded a lot more "normal" than this.
I've owned this DAC for a long time now, and this thing really is quite a shock to listen to. You never really know this DAC which is what makes it such a pleasure to own.
So if your in for a dose of forensics, large soundstage with clear placement of images, and some weighty, very well resolved bass, this would appear to be the ticket.
It isn't really a valve to relax with. VT-52 will definitely tone everything down a notch, for instance i.e. collapse the soundstage, drop the level of detail, warm things up a bit, and produce a less awesome bass. But that is no bad thing. It's all about what sort of mood your in at the time, I think.
EDIT: the PX4 also majors on speed. Things seem to happen extremely quickly WRT transients.
Some might enjoy this as there are a few Lampi owners out there. I've just posted it.
I'm not advocating spending this much on a DAC in any way, shape or form. Unless you are extremely wealthy I'd judge it to be a mistake. Anyway, the man speaks, for 48 minutes, so you have to be pretty fanatical to want to watch it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=V0DttTjJ5Y8
My god what is this thread doing with 73K hits? I haven't looked at it for ages. Far out.
Anyway, been playing with a few new valves in my now extensively modified Lampizator. It now uses active triode loading in the shape of a 6N6P, and a 5U4G rectifier (I'm using a Chatham 5R4WGB). The two 6X5 rectifiers are now gone.
I have also had some huge Jupiter copper foil caps installed in the output stage, which I have to say sound fabulous. I have two sets of RCA jacks and can switch between those and the Duelands.
So here's the valves I've been assessing.
https://jgz1la.db.files.1drv.com/y4muJUJE7wi5kdcDLatqUolYaxMdie4xBHZYi2Nr6gmrO4srav wZajyABFeyM3q5TnZ95g8TY8__6bzzcd7i03r50zownEE9H3Qx j-kG4tha9zJKDXmBJkNzgQ9bhTKdU05XLLq0qFpQ1bHj7ilwM17T WtUj3BHeqdk17OGzEsQRQbw5GA_RLoGqpKddr19b9DHrESNT2G 94qmB4beO54SI5w?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
From left to right:
KR 300B Ricardo Kron edition
Marconi PX4 on adaptors bought from ebay to make them fit into UX4 sockets
EML Lampizator 6th Anniversary Special 45
KR 242
KR PX25
and a gratuitous shot of the system they are being assessed in, mainly because I really like the way the sunlight falls on the left speaker. Had to be worth a post
https://jqz1la.db.files.1drv.com/y4mOd8NkQ7EA3hOYT6D2uYiAGruGCOZrEVXiWDDLS1nUoYPdu1 ubvfrxkPk6VP87hxk-KKPelqUsoYkzCguXHuwy2g6aAirNO706k_hQ7bvF6ditlSUPcm DXP2gLLgk0Cv8d5CJ4x-CDLMt3HQ4dErBjy9Ac2amU3C3wSGk3FfZ_v1jMgc4kHG49-_VbjhF6_b9Li7kS03iANuOPOa8h7dSow?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
I had to send the KR 300B RK back due to a manufacturing issue. I am glad I did as this pair sounds quite markedly better and also quite different. Which is freakin' curious, since the fault was simply due to mica not touching the glass to prevent microphony like it should.
Will post some thoughts about all apart from the Marconi PX4 soonish. I'm keeping that one secret, just to tease:D
Looking great Justin. Massive panels those
Heard some Lampizator kit today and it made an impression.
Heard some Lampizator kit today and it made an impression.
What was it? The DACs themselves are interesting as they all vary in sound depending on how they were built and what valves they have in them. DACs on the same level vary, especially over time. Different caps, different circuits etc etc.
Mine is now at level "doesn't exist", I would say. It doesn't correspond to anything in the current line up.
BTW I don't own that batch of valves, the PX25, 242 and EML 45s are on loan from a GG owner.
What was it? The DACs themselves are interesting as they all vary in sound depending on how they were built and what valves they have in them. DACs on the same level vary, especially over time. Different caps, different circuits etc etc.
.
I think it was a combined DAC/pre-amp and two monoblocks. The monoblocks used enormous valves.
Looking great Justin. Massive panels thoseHave another pic:) Note XiangSheng in front of the monoblock.
I still love it. It is my "reality reset" DAC, meaning I return to it just to see how it compares with the Lampi. Stops me getting carried away.
While a Lampi is fun it is an expensive toy, especially considering that the price of even just those RK 300Bs is 11 times the price of the Xiang.
Sobering thought and it shows just how great the Xiang VFM is.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180624/6908cfdfeec12bd7516fc7ec9be62ea3.jpg
I think it was a combined DAC/pre-amp and two monoblocks. The monoblocks used enormous valves.
Were you at Cranage the day before or something?
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