Add Numerik or ????

[stairpost]

Hi AOS'ers.

I am an avid CD user that has no plans to stream anytime soon, in fact I'm buying more CD's than ever!

Anyway, let's to the matter in hand. I'm currently using a Karik 2 but have the upgrade itch. Would I be better just adding the Numerik (this is heralded as a fine way to go) or simply upgrade to something else. A budget of £400 for a used machine.

Amp is a Copland and speakers are Pink Triangle Ventricals. Not much chance to audition stuff on the used market.

Cheers

Rich

[jandl100]

It's quite a few years back now, but I owned a Karik 2 and liked it quite a lot with its on-board DAC.

Right! - add a Numerik DAC, thought I, for even more of the same.

Nope, wrong. :nono:

The Numerik was a lot more 'refined' and for me lost the appeal of the quite vibrant Karik sound.

That was for my tastes, which veer to the upfront and exciting. YMMV :)

[walpurgis]

That was for my tastes, which veer to the upfront and exciting. YMMV :)

Funny how tastes vary. Mine used to be rather similar and I wanted very deep bass. Now all I focus on is revelation (not forwardness), i.e., being able to hear everything in the mix with an emphasis on depth, soundstage and ambience.

[jandl100]

Revelation ... ?

Ah. OK.

Well yes, I like that, too.

"depth, soundstage and ambience" - most folk agree that my speakers do that rather well. :)

[Yomanze]

Funny how tastes vary. Mine used to be rather similar and I wanted very deep bass. Now all I focus on is revelation (not forwardness), i.e., being able to hear everything in the mix with an emphasis on depth, soundstage and ambience.

Revelation seems like a very subjective word compared to 'depth', 'soundstage', 'ambience' etc.

[walpurgis]

Revelation seems like a very subjective word compared to 'depth', 'soundstage', 'ambience' etc.

Any answer to that would be subjective too. :)

[Yomanze]

Any answer to that would be subjective too. :)

Touché!

[mr sneff]

I used to have a stand-alone Karik and auditioned a Numerik to go with it. In hi-fi terms it was superbly detailed, black silences between the notes and so on, but I found it to be very clinical and soulless. This was one of the original Numeriks with the transformer based PSU. Later I bought a secondhand Numerik with the Brilliant PSU which wasn't so clinical sounding but didn't sound that different to the stand-alone Karik to me. If I remember correctly there were some long-term reliability issues with the Brilliant PSU. Later models has a slimline PSU which was more reliable. There are probably some threads on the subject on the Linn forum

[stairpost]

I used to have a stand-alone Karik and auditioned a Numerik to go with it. In hi-fi terms it was superbly detailed, black silences between the notes and so on, but I found it to be very clinical and soulless. This was one of the original Numeriks with the transformer based PSU. Later I bought a secondhand Numerik with the Brilliant PSU which wasn't so clinical sounding but didn't sound that different to the stand-alone Karik to me. If I remember correctly there were some long-term reliability issues with the Brilliant PSU. Later models has a slimline PSU which was more reliable. There are probably some threads on the subject on the Linn forum

Cheers for the input. The Linn forum is always a superb source of all things Linn and a great forum. But I'm hoping to get an "also available" perspective as well.

[mr sneff]

Cheers for the input. The Linn forum is always a superb source of all things Linn and a great forum. But I'm hoping to get an "also available" perspective as well.
Not sure if you'd get a better CD player for £400, plenty of DAC to choose from at that price, which may sound different, only you can decide if different = better. There a quite a few fans of the Beresford Bushmaster DAC on the forum, which gives a very good performance for considerably under budget, and the Rega DAC is also well regarded.

[stairpost]

Not sure if you'd get a better CD player for £400, plenty of DAC to choose from at that price, which may sound different, only you can decide if different = better. There a quite a few fans of the Beresford Bushmaster DAC on the forum, which gives a very good performance for considerably under budget, and the Rega DAC is also well regarded.

I do think the Numerik probably is the way to go, but I do hear good things about the Rega apollo-r and wondered if CD technology has improved at more affordable prices in recent history.

I found the comments and experiences regarding adding a Numerik really interesting (thanks for the input guys).

I do wonder if CD is as dead as a lot of streamers tell us it is, where are all the now outdated and worthless CD players on the 2nd hand market.

[DSJR]

Right - Back in 1994 - 95 I had a pal who worked part time at one of Linn's biggest dealers. He was able to try several batch-samples of Linn gear per year and use the favoured one...

Generically, the Karik in all versions gets sonically clogged on complex mixes, although simple acoustic music can be charming. The tonal balance changed almost every other month as yet another main-board revision came along and it wasn't until the III model that it settled down IME.

If you're getting a Numerik, which SHOULD be a clear improvement on complex mixes, then get a Numerik III if you can find one. The pairing is superb, better than the dimensionally flatter Ikemi (most Linn dealers didn't have gear able to reproduce space and depth back then and maybe still don't, so said the Ikemi was better!). No sonic fireworks with this pairing, but you should have a finely layered and believable reproduction from the two together. In my experience, Linn's CD players used to sound underwhelming in sub-optimal systems, but came to life in better ones :)

[stairpost]

Right - Back in 1994 - 95 I had a pal who worked part time at one of Linn's biggest dealers. He was able to try several batch-samples of Linn gear per year and use the favoured one...

Generically, the Karik in all versions gets sonically clogged on complex mixes, although simple acoustic music can be charming. The tonal balance changed almost every other month as yet another main-board revision came along and it wasn't until the III model that it settled down IME.

If you're getting a Numerik, which SHOULD be a clear improvement on complex mixes, then get a Numerik III if you can find one. The pairing is superb, better than the dimensionally flatter Ikemi (most Linn dealers didn't have gear able to reproduce space and depth back then and maybe still don't, so said the Ikemi was better!). No sonic fireworks with this pairing, but you should have a finely layered and believable reproduction from the two together. In my experience, Linn's CD players used to sound underwhelming in sub-optimal systems, but came to life in better ones :)

That's pretty comprehensive. cheers!

Just out of interest have you ever heard an Apollo-r?