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WikiBoy
18-03-2008, 13:09
Dear friends.

We are witnessing first hand the effects of skilled marketing bullshitters, especially when they double team us.

The quantity of posts in the last couple of days has gone up 10 fold, the level of vitriol has gone up 20 fold. That is marketing for you it gives you more and more of the totally wrong things until it goes pop.

Well how long do we have to wait for Ashley and Jesus Christ from Brum to go pop? With the amount of hot wind farting around I am hoping quickly. BUT don't hold yer breath, they are a disease and diseases don't give up easily. Is it time for the white blood cells to do their work - pretty please moderators!

Prince of Darkness
18-03-2008, 16:14
Hi Richard,
I'm tending to agree. They seem to be working on the principal that if you bullshit loud enough and long enough then people will believe it.:lolsign:

Mike
18-03-2008, 16:34
They (and their compatriot 'Martin' - an AVI 'Technical bod') seem to forming some sort of AVI 'posse'!

I'm bored with them!

Marco
18-03-2008, 16:39
Well guys it's your forum so what would you like me to do (within reason)? There will be no bannings or anything like that, though.

Marco.

Mike
18-03-2008, 16:48
Can we shoot them then?

:eyebrows:

WikiBoy
18-03-2008, 16:51
Well guys it's your forum so what would you like me to do (within reason)? There will be no bannings or anything like that, though.

Marco.

How about restricting them to only refering to AVI in 1 in 2 or 3 of their posts.

You called me a muppet so how about giving them Clown status :lolsign: baggy pants and nice big red noses :lol::lol::lol:

You banned plastic grinder though he was a nutcase.

Actually to be honest they must realise they are doing themselves no favours and even the least intellegent of them will give up or calm down eventually. I wouldn't mind just occassionally being told I should stick part of my anatomy in a Ipoodle dock and AVI sticks it up it better (the best), but every other post and every thread no matter what the subject matter :confused::mental:

Marco
18-03-2008, 16:58
LOL. I could add the names "AVI" and "ADM9" to the software ban list. Then all that would appear is a series of asterisks ;)

I like the idea of a title change for the 'AVI boys', as a little joke, but I'm not sure it would go down too well!

Blame bad-boy Rob for your "Muppet" status :lol:

Marco.

WikiBoy
18-03-2008, 17:08
Blame bad-boy Rob for your "Muppet" status :lol:

Marco.

Thank him you mean - I luv it!

Marco
18-03-2008, 17:11
I know you do! We aim to please ;)

Marco.

NRG
18-03-2008, 17:50
How about restricting them to only refering to AVI in 1 in 2 or 3 of their posts.

You called me a muppet so how about giving them Clown status :lolsign: baggy pants and nice big red noses :lol::lol::lol:

You banned plastic grinder though he was a nutcase.

Actually to be honest they must realise they are doing themselves no favours and even the least intellegent of them will give up or calm down eventually. I wouldn't mind just occassionally being told I should stick part of my anatomy in a Ipoodle dock and AVI sticks it up it better (the best), but every other post and every thread no matter what the subject matter :confused::mental:

How about the Chuckle Brothers?

http://www.thechucklebrothersontour.co.uk/images/chuckle_brothers_203_203x152.jpg

Ashley James
18-03-2008, 17:54
I see that this Forum has just had it's highest number of visitors ever today, presumably because of this multi stranded debate and the mud slinging.

As I keep saying, it's not having the slightest effect on my business, you lot are not our type of customer, but it does seem to be helping this Forum which is more than you lot managed without us!

Mike
18-03-2008, 18:28
It's the Google Slurp Spiders mate!

They've come to have their turn at the trough! :ner:

EDIT:... Oops, today it's Yahoo Slurp Spiders filling their snouts!

WikiBoy
18-03-2008, 23:09
The real problem is the stupidity of trying to sell this crap to us. It is just logically arse about face.

Now to give another more logical situation - A forum dedicated to users of Ipoodles, if I were on such a thing and JC (watch out its easter this weekend) and Ashley came on with their double act they would get my full support, those poor idiots are listening to crap so anything that improves it is a very positive thing, and I am sure AVI improves it out of all proportion. BUT if Shian7 came on that forum and told them they were all bonkers and they should throw away their Idogs for turntables he would be rightly flamed. So the opposite is true here, I think it is a miracle seeing the behaviour displayed that they haven't been flamed more than they have been.

Anyway I am sure logic and common sense will prevail in the end :smoking:

Mike
18-03-2008, 23:17
No way I would tell the iPenis brigade to throw them away and get a turntable instead!!!

What a waste of a quality source component that would be!!! :confused:

Marco
18-03-2008, 23:37
So the opposite is true here, I think it is a miracle seeing the behaviour displayed that they haven't been flamed more than they have been.


Richard,

We simply wouldn't allow that to happen, and I think people respect this. The Art of Sound isn't like some other forums where disputes are allowed to run and run, page after page, with all hell breaking loose before effective moderation occurs. Our admin team are very pro-active and any trouble is snuffed out quickly before it develops into something more serious. Consequently, I would like to think that there is a more friendly atmosphere here than on other audio and music forums :)

It doesn't mean though that we don't allow robust debating to take place on a variety of subjects, without things getting personal, as my earlier tête-à-tête with Ashley ably demonstrated!

Marco.

WikiBoy
18-03-2008, 23:53
It's the Google Slurp Spiders mate!

They've come to have their turn at the trough! :ner:

EDIT:... Oops, today it's Yahoo Slurp Spiders filling their snouts!

Have you made these thingermies up, if not what the hell are they, they sound seriously menacing - do they eat forums?

Mike
19-03-2008, 00:10
Click on 'currently active users' at the bottom of the forum home page to view 'who is currently on-line'. You can see 'members' & 'guests' and what they are viewing.

Marco
19-03-2008, 00:12
LOL. We've activated them to increase our prominence on Google, Yahoo and MSN search engines. The 'spiders' basically monitor all activity on the forum and feed this information back into their reference system.

Marco.

WikiBoy
19-03-2008, 00:33
OK so it says a Google spider is reading Marco's thread.

So who or what is a Google spider?

Marco
19-03-2008, 00:37
It isn't 'anyone', Richard. It's just a software device attached to an ISP.

Don't worry, you won't find any in your bed! ;)

Marco.

leo
19-03-2008, 01:49
Just read this thread and almost fell off my chair:lol:

WikiBoy
19-03-2008, 11:50
It hasn't worked!!

The AVI marketing team is still running rough shod over all threads.

Please do something, I for one am running out of piss take phrases for them and will just end up repeating myself, as they are doing in every post.

You will start losing customers at this rate, you are collecting good guys, but there is a limit to how much brow beating they will take.

Ashley James
19-03-2008, 11:59
Richard this is nonsense, why don't you try to say something constructive that can be discussed and will stimulate Debate. Snide comments and inane chat drives people away.

jcbrum
19-03-2008, 12:09
"ALL THREADS", thats a bit of an exaggeration !

Anyway I've got my own room :ner::lol::lolsign::ner::ner::gig:

So P off back to yours as well ;)

WikiBoy
19-03-2008, 12:11
Richard this is nonsense, why don't you try to say something constructive that can be discussed and will stimulate Debate. Snide comments and inane chat drives people away.

It is very much *on topic*. Problem - you are so busy listening to the sound of your own voice everything else goes out the window.

Look at the tile of this thread it is about *you* your fellow AVI marketers and *your* behaviour.

JC is worse than you, it is almost like a good cop bad cop developing. But the pair of you still have a tendency to piss on everyone else and any thread until it drowns.

Ashley James
19-03-2008, 12:16
Are you suggesting we've taken over from you?

Yesterday this Forum had it's greatest number of visitors, does this mean I'm pissing off the encumbents and attracting new blood, or what?

anthonyTD
19-03-2008, 12:24
Are you suggesting we've taken over from you?

Yesterday this Forum had it's greatest number of visitors, does this mean I'm pissing off the encumbents and attracting new blood, or what?
why is it so dificult to except that we all percieve music experiences diffrently, and what works for someone, wont initialy work for everyone else, all of you in my honest opinion who have contributed to this thread have valid comments, but come on, just accept that you will never please everyone, even if you can validate what your saying!!!

Ashley James
19-03-2008, 12:32
Anthony yours is a fair point, but actually I think that I can prove we're all wanting the same thing but don't always get it because our ear/brain is conditioned to work with what it's used to. If we've been listening to crap and are offered something miles better, we may not notice because it's very different and we haven't turned the crap filter off.

All hearing aids amplify the same frequency range too, the only adjustment made by the manufacturer is to suit a patients amplitude response failings.

The fact is that most hi fi is woefully short of the mark in ways that are well understood and could easily be rectified. It hasn't happened because of the bullshit that Richard's on about. His only mistake is to assume we're talking bullshit too.

jcbrum
19-03-2008, 12:35
Nah, he got it wrong about Marco's speakers as well

WikiBoy
19-03-2008, 12:55
Are you suggesting we've taken over from you?

Yesterday this Forum had it's greatest number of visitors, does this mean I'm pissing off the encumbents and attracting new blood, or what?

Go to any street corner in any town and start shouting at someone - you will get a crowd - start punching them and you will get a bigger crowd.

So this is how you judge success - a marketing mans view of the world - well sorry, for me quality is far more important than quantity.

Marco
19-03-2008, 13:49
Anthony yours is a fair point, but actually I think that I can prove we're all wanting the same thing but don't always get it because our ear/brain is conditioned to work with what it's used to. If we've been listening to crap and are offered something miles better, we may not notice because it's very different and we haven't turned the crap filter off.


That's fair enough, but "crap" is a subjective term. Your "crap" may be different from my "crap", etc, etc... ;)

Marco.

Ashley James
19-03-2008, 14:47
Nope!

Distortion is the enemy - Distortion means altered from the original in an unattractive way. Distortion is crap and if it's identifiable and removable, removing means a better sound because there's less in the way of the music.

A Flute should sound like a Flute and not an Oboe.

anthonyTD
19-03-2008, 18:27
Nope!

Distortion is the enemy - Distortion means altered from the original in an unattractive way. Distortion is crap and if it's identifiable and removable, removing means a better sound because there's less in the way of the music.

A Flute should sound like a Flute and not an Oboe.

just thought i would add some more food for thought,just because no one else seems to be doing it on this thread at the moment..

havent you ever wondered why most guitarists given a choice between solid stage amplification or valve/tube, most choose valve/tube???
go on, comment i know you want to!!!

Ashley James
19-03-2008, 18:57
If you plug an electric guitar into a decent hi fi you'll find that it sounds clean, a little dull and not very interesting. Guitar amplifiers, probably for historical reasons, are valved and they drive very light paper coned loudspeakers. This means that the Amplifier (Combo) is part of the musical instrument and all the distortions it produces considered desirable, including overdriving the amplifier and cone break up of the loudspeaker. In recent years companies like like TC Electronics have taken things even further and produced electronic devices that distort the guitar sound even more.

I believe Dave Gilmour uses 4 x 100 Watt Valve Amps, TC Electronics (Fuzzbox) and 4 x 12" Fane Crescendos. Not nice for music but it does what he wants.

anthonyTD
19-03-2008, 19:05
If you plug an electric guitar into a decent hi fi you'll find that it sounds clean, a little dull and not very interesting. Guitar amplifiers, probably for historical reasons, are valved and they drive very light paper coned loudspeakers. This means that the Amplifier (Combo) is part of the musical instrument and all the distortions it produces considered desirable, including overdriving the amplifier and cone break up of the loudspeaker. In recent years companies like like TC Electronics have taken things even further and produced electronic devices that distort the guitar sound even more.

I believe Dave Gilmour uses 4 x 100 Watt Valve Amps, TC Electronics (Fuzzbox) and 4 x 12" Fane Crescendos. Not nice for music but it does what he wants.
very, good answer, and partly acurate,
so are you actually in agreement that not all distortion is objectionable or un-musical?

Ashley James
19-03-2008, 19:30
No I haven't, I've pointed out that a Guitar amp isn't suitable for Hi Fi. Earlier on I also explained that every part of the recording and producing process was "musical" except the Monitors.

However, once it's a CD (or download now) it needs to sound exactly as it's Producer intended without avoidable distortion or colouration being added by the replay system. It's also important to understand that a designer (of hi fi) doesn't know what music his customers will play but he knows that some will have an extremely broad based collection and that any particular characteristic that his system has will appear on every piece if music and quickly become a major irritant. Therefore he must listen carefully to customer's observations, try and identify any negatives and work on reducing or removing them.

Hi Fi enthusiasts, as on this Forum, seem slightly different in that they appear to treat what we'd regard as offensive distortions as a kind of musical interpretation. Almost like a child might be in a Sweet Shop; Everything is delicious and he can't wait to try it all.

anthonyTD
19-03-2008, 19:44
No I haven't, I've pointed out that a Guitar amp isn't suitable for Hi Fi. Earlier on I also explained that every part of the recording and producing process was "musical" except the Monitors.

However, once it's a CD (or download now) it needs to sound exactly as it's Producer intended without avoidable distortion or colouration being added by the replay system. It's also important to understand that a designer (of hi fi) doesn't know what music his customers will play but he knows that some will have an extremely broad based collection and that any particular characteristic that his system has will appear on every piece if music and quickly become a major irritant. Therefore he must listen carefully to customer's observations, try and identify any negatives and work on reducing or removing them.

Hi Fi enthusiasts, as on this Forum, seem slightly different in that they appear to treat what we'd regard as offensive distortions as a kind of musical interpretation. Almost like a child might be in a Sweet Shop; Everything is delicious and he can't wait to try it all.
as i have said before you make valid points...
but the reason i asked about the guitar amplifier senario is also a valid point, because apart from the explanations you gave about why in your opinion guitarists liked the combination of guitar and certain amplication, you didnt realy pick up on the one main reason why most choose valve amplification, even when playing clean.that reason is, because valve amplifiers sound alive! they are also more responsive to individuals subtle styles of playing, in other words they are more interactive and more musically rewarding...

Mike
19-03-2008, 19:46
Surely not!... valves are 'old' and therefore of no use! ;)

anthonyTD
19-03-2008, 19:54
Surely not!... valves are 'old' and therefore of no use! ;)

by the way mike,
i think you should change the valves in that amp, going by the blue glow, i think they have all gone soft!!! [just kidding mate]

Mike
19-03-2008, 20:11
by the way mike,
i think you should change the valves in that amp, going by the blue glow, i think they have all gone soft!!! [just kidding mate]

HeHe.... That pic was taken when the amp (World Designs WD88VA) & valves were only a week or two old, it's hard to see from that pic but the faceplate hadn't even been fitted at that point. The blue glow (exaggerated by long exposure) faded away after a few more weeks, more's the pity!

Cheers,
Mike.

anthonyTD
19-03-2008, 20:22
HeHe.... That pic was taken when the amp (World Designs WD88VA) & valves were only a week or two old, it's hard to see from that pic but the faceplate hadn't even been fitted at that point. The blue glow (exaggerated by long exposure) faded away after a few more weeks, more's the pity!

Cheers,
Mike.
i agree, nice affect [while it lasted]

jester
22-03-2008, 09:12
well well i have read lots of these post (just to point out so no confusion I don't own any or have any connection with AVI in anyway).

Firstly I find Richards rantings most annoying if you like your soldering iron so much please enjoy in peace - I have no interest at all in burning myself

Secondly - i like the idea of the adm9's and if i was starting again i would go look/listen to them. I do love my own system and don't feel the need to defend it I just like to listen to music on it (sg't peppers at the mo streamed of the laptop through the ps3)

Thridly - I play guitar I have used valve amp's (fender, marshall, vox and others) I now use solid state with usefull effects build in much better. As ashley pointed out the amp is part of the instrument not hifi but the vavle thing is more snobbery than reality the line6 amps do loads for very little money in real terms.

back to the tunes

happy easter

Mike
22-03-2008, 11:11
the vavle thing is more snobbery than reality

Really?..... How so?

:scratch:

jester
22-03-2008, 18:01
can't be bothered bye bye

Mike
22-03-2008, 18:18
Huh?..... was a simple enough question mate, no need to take the hump!

:confused:

WikiBoy
22-03-2008, 19:34
Huh?..... was a simple enough question mate, no need to take the hump!

:confused:

Don't worry he was a troll.

Mike
22-03-2008, 19:47
Don't worry he was a troll.

I was actually thinking 'JC'sBum alter ego' :lolsign:

anthonyTD
22-03-2008, 20:02
Huh?..... was a simple enough question mate, no need to take the hump!

:confused:
Not very convincing was he?
i wonder if his prefrence of solid state guitar amp and line 6 is going to convince the likes of say, slash, paul weller,david gilmore,pete townsend, jimmy page etc,etc, to change their prefrence, i am getting worried now...
[ i think i am getting the hang of this sarcasim thing ]

Mike
22-03-2008, 20:30
[ i think i am getting the hang of this sarcasim thing ]

Pah!......

Watch and learn young Valvewalker. When as big a pain in the arse as me are you, then a Jedimockmiester shall you be! Hmm, Yesss.

:tribe:

jimdgoulding
22-03-2008, 22:12
A cool head and a warm heart are endearing qualities in business and in life. Nothing is to be gained from doubting a person’s intelligence or integrity in the open. To do so shows naiveté. Unawareness is not a sign of lack of intelligence. I hope I’m living up to that. But, a sense of humor is cool, in case I'm not.

anthonyTD
22-03-2008, 22:25
Pah!......

Watch and learn young Valvewalker. When as big a pain in the arse as me are you, then a Jedimockmiester shall you be! Hmm, Yesss.

:tribe:
ok jedimockmiester, you win, i will leave the humour to you in future...

Mike
22-03-2008, 22:36
No, No, No.......

Learn shall you. Knowledge do you have, together shall we find the way. Conversion of the unbelievers will be done, when 900 years old are they, Peace and understanding come it will. Hmm, yesss