Tonearm for a Decca blue?

[fiddlemaker]

I have recently become smitten with a newly-acquired decca blue, and was wondering if anyone could advise me on what would be a good choice of tonearm. Turntable is a NA Hyperspace. I currently use an audiomods arm on it, which works ok with the Decca with extra mass applied at the headshell, but needs damping for the cartridge to work at its best (I rigged up a silicone damper trough/paddle at the back of the counterweight, but I don't want to keep this as a long term solution)
Considering Jelco 750, Ace space, old space arm, mentor, any ideas on these or other suggestions?
Cheers
John

[chris@panteg]

Hi John

I've never had a Decca but know what a good set up one sounds like , in conversation with a few enthusiasts a good arm choice is something like a Hadcock or any good unipivot , the Nottingham Analog arms should be good , the late Doug Dunlop was a Decca man and he used an Odyssey arm on his Source turntable to great effect .

I would suggest an Ace space or Mentor being an obvious choice in your Hyperspace , best of luck .

[Barry]

All Decca cartridges benefit from a measure of damping. With some arms the compliance of the cartridge mounting bracket is sufficient, with others a silicone fluid damping dashpot is needed. Of the latter, I have used Decca Mk. V ("Blue") and Mk. VI ("Gold") cartridges mounted in either the SME 3009/S2 or the Infinity "Black Widow" arms with success. If you can get hold of the GB mounting block/clamp, then I would recommend using this, or have Brian Smith at London (the trading name for current Decca cartridges, since Decca's Special Products division was sold off years ago) fit a "Deccapod" mounting block for you.

Unipivot arms usually use silicon grease damping around the pivot for stability. These arms can also be used with the Decca cartridges to good effect. These are: the Keith Monks (formerly Audio & Design) M9BA arm; the Hadcock GH228 arm and of course the Decca "International" and "London International" arms.

It is possible to use Decca Mk. V and Mk. VI cartridges in the Decca ffss (Super) arm, BUT you will need to use the special adapter that converts the 3-wire connection of the cartridge to the 4-wire contact of the arm as well as making the necessary correction to the angular offset of the cartridge. These are extremely rare: I have only ever seen one appear for sale on eBay.

[fiddlemaker]

Barry, Chris, many thanks for the replies.
I've already sent the cartridge off for a check over and a Deccapod fitting.
The Notts analogue arms would seem the obvious choice, but having heard the very positive difference that my diy damping efforts have made with my present arm, I'm quite keen to go for a damped arm.

From what I can gather, the Notts arms have some kind of damping, but it's not at all clear to me how it works. Can anyone explain?

Tempted by the Jelco, as it has damping, and the 12-inchers seem to be available at quite reasonable prices.

[Barry]

Some time ago I loaned my Decca Gold, mounted in the GB block and fitted to a Sumiko headshell, to a fellow member to try in his 9" Jelco arm. It was met with a very favourable review; so a Jelco arm can be recommended.

[walpurgis]

I've used many Deccas, in many arms and my view is that the best results were from the Decca International arm with fluid damping. Not surprising really, they were meant for each other.

(I'm talking about the original International arm with the metal headshell and opposed magnet 'cushion' below the pivot)

[camtwister]

Yes, scribble the Jelco 750 variants on your shopping list. Because:
they are currently manufactured with a straightforward damping system, they will work with low compliance carts, there's a selection of counterweights available, you get the convenience of a detachable headshell and you get value for your hard earned. Upgraded collar recommended.

http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx154/camtwister/fidelity%202014/1210withc4e_zps7ff35f39.jpg (http://s751.photobucket.com/user/camtwister/media/fidelity%202014/1210withc4e_zps7ff35f39.jpg.html)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/268/1orbitplatteredit.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/7g1orbitplattereditj)

[fiddlemaker]

Podded Decca Blue now singing in a new ace space. Bloody awesome.
Thanks for all the very helpful advice.

[Jimbo]

Podded Decca Blue now singing in a new ace space. Bloody awesome.
Thanks for all the very helpful advice.

Hi John,

How are you finding the Decca Blue, are you using croft amps with it? I had this cartridge 30 years ago and have never heard anything more exciting or live sounding when it is set up well.

Could you let me know how well it tracks and your impressions of this superb cartridge as I want to revisit it myself!

[Ali Tait]

How did you set the cart up? I have a Maroon, but they sit so close to the surface, it's hard to set them up properly with a protractor.

[fiddlemaker]

Hi John,

How are you finding the Decca Blue, are you using croft amps with it? I had this cartridge 30 years ago and have never heard anything more exciting or live sounding when it is set up well.

Could you let me know how well it tracks and your impressions of this superb cartridge as I want to revisit it myself!

I'm absolutely delighted with the Decca in the ace space. The arm seems to suit the cartridge perfectly. To me, the cartridge sounds in a different league to the Benz Ace I was using previously. Dynamic, transparent (which I was expecting from all the "folklore") but also refined (which i wasn't). I'm using a vtf of 2.5 g as recommended by John Wright. Seems to track perfectly at this weight. Amps are updated micro A (effectively a 25r) and 7r power amp. The cartridge also worked well with the audiomods, but suited it better before "podding" I feel.



How did you set the cart up? I have a Maroon, but they sit so close to the surface, it's hard to set them up properly with a protractor.

It wasn't as hard as I feared, with the playing surface at eye level. The hardest thing with alignment using my previous (Audiomods) arm was that the sides of the cartridge/pod were a bit obscured, whereas with the Ace Space the cartridge is at an angle to the headshell and sticks out the front a bit, making the sides clearly visible and alignment much easier. I used the protractor supplied with my hyperspace for alignment.

[Ali Tait]

Ok thanks, not tried mine yet, it needs to go to John for fettling.

[camtwister]

The setting up of the Mark IV cartridges and their predecessors is aided by larger, and square, bodies.
For the Mark V onwards, and the London variants, I use the following methods to ensure correct alignment.

When fixed to the arm and viewing the cartridge from the side, you will be unable to see the stylus tip with sufficient accuracy to use a protactor,
and so, with the cartridge mounted but not tightly secured in my (detachable) headshell, I clamp the arrangement under a bright lamp and magnifying glass.
I then check that the stylus tip is aligned with the centre point of the cartridge body.
Using prepared strips of masking tape and tweezers, I apply markers to the cartridge body that identify the location of the stylus.
This enables an accurate estimation of the stylus location, even though it's not visible, and the use of a protractor.
Take care with ferrous materials near Deccas.

If you are able to place your 'table at head height, and view the headshell from the front, a bright light source from behind the cartridge will enable you to make estimations of azimuth settings.
Placing the cartridge on top of a small, thin mirror can help, or a CD may suffice if a mirror of suitable size (i.e. of similar 'thickness' to vinyl) is not available.

Decca performance is very sensitive to set-up, particularly VTA. Patience at this stage will be rewarded.

As for tracking, my experience is that the extended line contact stylii are 'better' in this regard than the spherical or standard elliptical profiles, when using a VTF in the region of 1.8 grammes.
If you are considering a rebuild, I would recommend a discussion with John Wright about the merits of fitting the line contact in a Maroon.
It would change the sonic character, inevitably, but if tracking is a priority for you, perhaps worth considering.

Deccas forever!

[Ali Tait]

Interesting, cheers for the info.

[fiddlemaker]

The setting up of the Mark IV cartridges and their predecessors is aided by larger, and square, bodies.
For the Mark V onwards, and the London variants, I use the following methods to ensure correct alignment.

When fixed to the arm and viewing the cartridge from the side, you will be unable to see the stylus tip with sufficient accuracy to use a protactor,

Deccas forever!

What I find is that it is possible to see where the tip is landing (but not much else) so if you extend or mark the "x and y" lines that correspond to the desired landing point you can tell whether the stylus is where it should be. If that makes sense. Once I got used to it I didn't find using a protractor with the decca to be that much more traumatic than any other cartridge.
My blue has the original spherical stylus, and I'm amazed how good it sounds, and how well it tracks. I really like the complete absence of hard (or even soft) sell you get from john Wright. He doesn't push you in any way to go for a fancier tip, his attitude seems to be that if you like how the spherical sounds, why not keep it?

[jaym481]

I finally managed to pick up a few Deccas in the past few months. A C4E, a Gold and a Green (basically a green painted Gold body fitted with a stylus for 78s). Finally got 'round to sending them to John Wright and got them back in a week! The Gold was re-tipped, the C4E cleaned, aligned and the body replaced (the original body was covered in glue from some attempt at a mod by the previous owner) and the Green cleaned, aligned and had damping material replaced. All done for less than the price of a new Maroon. JW only does what work he thinks is needed, though I imagine he'll do what's requested.

[Barry]

The setting up of the Mark IV cartridges and their predecessors is aided by larger, and square, bodies.
For the Mark V onwards, and the London variants, I use the following methods to ensure correct alignment.

When fixed to the arm and viewing the cartridge from the side, you will be unable to see the stylus tip with sufficient accuracy to use a protactor,
and so, with the cartridge mounted but not tightly secured in my (detachable) headshell, I clamp the arrangement under a bright lamp and magnifying glass.
I then check that the stylus tip is aligned with the centre point of the cartridge body.
Using prepared strips of masking tape and tweezers, I apply markers to the cartridge body that identify the location of the stylus.
This enables an accurate estimation of the stylus location, even though it's not visible, and the use of a protractor.
Take care with ferrous materials near Deccas.

If you are able to place your 'table at head height, and view the headshell from the front, a bright light source from behind the cartridge will enable you to make estimations of azimuth settings.
Placing the cartridge on top of a small, thin mirror can help, or a CD may suffice if a mirror of suitable size (i.e. of similar 'thickness' to vinyl) is not available.

Decca performance is very sensitive to set-up, particularly VTA. Patience at this stage will be rewarded.

As for tracking, my experience is that the extended line contact stylii are 'better' in this regard than the spherical or standard elliptical profiles, when using a VTF in the region of 1.8 grammes.
If you are considering a rebuild, I would recommend a discussion with John Wright about the merits of fitting the line contact in a Maroon.
It would change the sonic character, inevitably, but if tracking is a priority for you, perhaps worth considering.

Deccas forever!

As I commented in a previous post, all Decca cartidges require the utmost care and attention to set them up properly. If you do that, then you will be rewarded with a performance that no other cartridge can provide.

I haven't found any difficulty in setting up the correct cartridge/tonearm alignment, but my turntable is at a height where I am able to squat down and view the position of the stylus on the alignment protractor clearly , even though the clearence between the protractor and the underside of the cartridge is very small.

I also use a mirror to check the azimuth, however you will need to disable the anti-skating bias of the arm to do this.

[Ali Tait]

John offers four choices of tip, which do folks think is the best choice?

[fiddlemaker]

.......

I also use a mirror to check the azimuth, however you will need to disable the anti-skating bias of the arm to do this.

Another thing I love about the ace space - the azimuth adjustment!

[fiddlemaker]

John offers four choices of tip, which do folks think is the best choice?

From the discussion I had with him, he seems to think that the line contact is the best value. But I get the impression that he thinks it's a bit daft to replace a spherical tip unless it's worn out.

[Ali Tait]

Thanks, yes, that's what I was leaning towards.