View Full Version : I've just won a heybrook TT2
Hi all.
I've just won a heybrook TT2 and just wondered if any of you can give me some advice on how to get this working to its full potential.
I'm unsure of the tonearm fitted (as is the seller) can anyone identify it? The stylus is a Dynavector DV-20X, has anyone used this cartridge before? Have you any comments on it?
At the moment I have an SME 3009 S2 fixed headshell with an ortofon red so advice would be great on which to keep.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
1223712238
The Barbarian
01-05-2014, 20:20
Shane is your man..
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?24628-Heybrook-TT2/page3&highlight=heybrook+tt2
The arm is either a Syrinx LE1 or a Datum Logic (there might be some other derivatives of the same arm too). Think its the Syrinx judging by the arm lift and bias weight thing.
The Barbarian
01-05-2014, 20:58
It's a Syrinx 'LE-1' yes
Wakefield Turntables
02-05-2014, 07:38
Nice TT nearly bought it myself, they go for stupidly low money. Probably will wee-wee all over a LP12, I've always fancied one, a cheapo rega rb250/300 would probably go down a storm on this deck.
walpurgis
02-05-2014, 09:32
a cheapo rega rb250/300 would probably go down a storm on this deck.
It may do, but personally, I don't like Rega arms. I believe they are overrated and they have a character which does not appeal to me, even when 'upgraded'. The RB300 was overhyped by the Hi-Fi press when it came out many years ago and given greater credit than it really deserved. Granted, at the price there was no real competition. (all the foregoing applies to the Ittok too in my view)
The TT2 is a nice unit and the existing Syrinx arm can probably be useful with the right cartridge.
Gordon Steadman
02-05-2014, 09:45
It may do, but personally, I don't like Rega arms. I believe they are overrated and they have a character which does not appeal to me, even when 'upgraded'. The RB300 was overhyped by the Hi-Fi press when it came out many years ago and given greater credit than it really deserved. Granted, at the price there was no real competition. (all the foregoing applies to the Ittok too in my view)
The TT2 is a nice unit and the existing Syrinx arm can probably be useful with the right cartridge.
Well I like them:)
It's a Syrinx 'LE-1' yes
Agreed. A friend of mine has a one fitted to a Dunlop Systemdeck.
Nathan, if your preference is for low compliance moving coil cartridges, then I would suggest you keep and use the Sryinx arm, rather than your SME arm. If however you want to use a higher compliance fixed coil cartridge, then the SME would probably be better.
Frankyc2003
02-05-2014, 11:40
I love mine.
a few things to check:
- make sure the tonearm cable is clipped to the plinth to avoid any foul play with the suspension
- make sure the belt is siting nicely on the belly of the pully to avoid any drag. That is done by a clever combination of tightening and loosening bolts around the motor.
- don't over do the suspension as the plastic grommet are hard to find nowadays
- when you have time, think about fitting an Armageddon clone PSU to it!
Mine is fitted with a Jelco 750D and a Goldring 2200 MM, and it is wonderful!
Enjoy
:cool:
though people tend to compare the TT2 to the LP12, in my experience the two run on different basic concepts
- the LP12 is all about "controlled looseness" to annihilate vibrations between the stylus cantilever and the bearing, its hollow plinth giving it the fruitbox nick
- the TT2 is all about "rigid coupling" between cantilever and bearing, the filled plinth almost acting as CLD device
we A/B compared a pre circus LP12 to a TT2 see there (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?3032-Heybrook-TT2-vs-Linn-LP12-(A-B-comparison-almost)&p=472537#post472537). The LP12 is sold now …
I do not know the Logic arm personally, but a TT2 likes a rigid arm better than an LP12, my RB250 works really fine on the TT2. A Heed Orbit did not improve the sound dramatically, but 33/45 switching is a lot easier …
have fun with your TT2
;-)
Michael
though people tend to compare the TT2 to the LP12, in my experience the two run on different basic concepts
- the LP12 is all about "controlled looseness" to annihilate vibrations between the stylus cantilever and the bearing, its hollow plinth giving it the fruitbox nick
The sceptic in me says that this is Ivor Teaforbrums' audiophile spin applied retrospectively to a design effectively stolen from Ariston. I don't remember Ariston ever saying their original was designed with this in mind..
I like the TT2 - a good solid deck. Only thing I don't like about them is how they can age, physically with that matt black vinyl wrap on the top and MDF feathering around the base you can get. Really someone needs to give one a piano black finish or something, to bling it up. Give it a super, "made for LP12s" style, power supply and it should reward you further. Bet a DC motor conversion would be good too.
Shane is your man..
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?24628-Heybrook-TT2/page3&highlight=heybrook+tt2
Thanks Andre, shame the photos have been deleted from the thread but an interesting read..
Nice TT nearly bought it myself, they go for stupidly low money. Probably will wee-wee all over a LP12, I've always fancied one, a cheapo rega rb250/300 would probably go down a storm on this deck.
Thanks REXTON your advice on my first post in the welcome thread started me looking at these decks. I knew I'd get one after looking about but it was waiting until the rite one came along.
It may do, but personally, I don't like Rega arms. I believe they are overrated and they have a character which does not appeal to me, even when 'upgraded'. The RB300 was overhyped by the Hi-Fi press when it came out many years ago and given greater credit than it really deserved. Granted, at the price there was no real competition. (all the foregoing applies to the Ittok too in my view)
The TT2 is a nice unit and the existing Syrinx arm can probably be useful with the right cartridge.
I'm in a bit of a dilemma wether to keep it or not but I'll have to make up my own mine on the sound and quality of it when it arrives on Wednesday.
A big thanks to everyone who has helped me so far. As I've said it's going bad here Wednesday then the fun can start. I'll keep you all posted on my new arrival and no doubt there's going to be many more questions fired your way :cool:
freefallrob
02-05-2014, 15:07
As an ex keeper/user of one of these, I watch with interest!
As an ex keeper/user of one of these, I watch with interest!
What was the reason for selling Rob?
I've had a couple over the years too.
My reason for selling is that there are many many fish in the sea.. and so there are more interesting and exotic designs out there too.
Just that the TT2 is just great value for money and a lot more can be had out of it. Of course VFM is about the actual price you pay rather than seeking one out at all costs and that does sometimes get confused in retro-hifi land IMHO!
PaulStewart
02-05-2014, 18:45
Well done for getting this Nathan, with a good service this will last you a lifetime and of all the bouncy TTs i.e. Those with suspension, this is one of the good ones, well worth doing up. The Syrinx is a classic arm and the Dynavector is one I really like, good extremes and a detailed, tuneful mid band. I would check out the condition of the stylus, any idea how many hours are on it? Pity you're at the other end of the M4 or I'd offer to put it under the microscope for you. Can't wait to hear how this works out
Cheers
There are many fish in the sea but I hope this will be my last fish :rolleyes:
I've had a couple over the years too.
My reason for selling is that there are many many fish in the sea.. and so there are more interesting and exotic designs out there too.
Just that the TT2 is just great value for money and a lot more can be had out of it. Of course VFM is about the actual price you pay rather than seeking one out at all costs and that does sometimes get confused in retro-hifi land IMHO!
Well done for getting this Nathan, with a good service this will last you a lifetime and of all the bouncy TTs i.e. Those with suspension, this is one of the good ones, well worth doing up. The Syrinx is a classic arm and the Dynavector is one I really like, good extremes and a detailed, tuneful mid band. I would check out the condition of the stylus, any idea how many hours are on it? Pity you're at the other end of the M4 or I'd offer to put it under the microscope for you. Can't wait to hear how this works out
Cheers
Thanks for the offer Paul that's very decent of you. I did ask the seller about the arm and hours on the stylus but he didn't know.
I'm looking forward to receiving this Wednesday and I will make some decisions over the next week or 2 on the stylus and arm quality.
Thanks again paul.
The Barbarian
02-05-2014, 19:16
You really need to PM Shane for obvious reasons
You really need to PM Shane for obvious reasons
Yes I will but I'll wait until it arrives first.
Cheers Andre.
Hi Nathan, welcome to the club! Happy to answer any questions. Looking forward to some pics...
There are many fish in the sea but I hope this will be my last fish :rolleyes:
There is no such thing as the last fish in audio crazyness land, but a TT2 is able to set a very decent and serious baseline for all other trouts you will encounter in your future
:D
Michael
As an ex keeper/user of one of these, I watch with interest!
I remember it well from scalford in 2012 you were getting a fantastic sound out of it. Held its own against some really fancy and exoensive decks.
Hi Nathan, welcome to the club! Happy to answer any questions. Looking forward to some pics...
Hi Shane!
I'm sure many questions will be coming your way as i here your the kiddie on these turntables. As soon as it arrives I'll get some nice photo's posted.
Any chance you post some of yours on this thread for me to drool over?????
I look forward to speaking with you soon.
Nathan.
There is no such thing as the last fish in audio crazyness land, but a TT2 is able to set a very decent and serious baseline for all other trouts you will encounter in your future …
:D
Michael
Hahahaha i know, I've only been into TT since the beginning of this year and already on my second :lol:
There are many fish in the sea but I hope this will be my last fish :rolleyes:
But fish need company of other fish! There's no harm in having more than one TT.. What if you see a TT with some fancy rosewood plinth or whatever beautiful finish foats your boat?
By the way, I'm sure my last TT2 had a clear lid which looked nicer in my opinion - pretty sure it was the same as the Linn lid which is also used on Alphasons and other decks.
OK, there's a load of assorted TT2 phiotos here: http://www.thepippin.plus.com/TT2/ but note these are of the earlier steel chassis version. From the photo, it looks like yours is likely to be the alloy chassis instead, but apart from the actual chassis itself, they are the same. You'll see what I mean when yours arrives.
A couple of comments on what's been said here so far.
a few things to check:
- make sure the tonearm cable is clipped to the plinth to avoid any foul play with the suspension
- make sure the belt is siting nicely on the belly of the pully to avoid any drag. That is done by a clever combination of tightening and loosening bolts around the motor.
- don't over do the suspension as the plastic grommet are hard to find nowadays
On the link above you/ll find a download of the instruction manual which tells you how to set up the arm cable and belt height. Francois is right to say that the grommets are hard to find (I'd say virtually impossible, myself!), but as long as the suspension nuts are free to turn easily on the bolts they won't be harmed by adjustment. They're actually butyl rubber, not plastic.
- the TT2 is all about "rigid coupling" between cantilever and bearing, the filled plinth almost acting as CLD device
True, but there is a small amount of lossiness deliberately introduced between the arm-board and chassis. Steel chassis had the armboard held on by a single nut, alloy chassis used a nut and a couple of wood-screws. Don't be tempted to "improve" on this.
By the way, I'm sure my last TT2 had a clear lid which looked nicer in my opinion - pretty sure it was the same as the Linn lid which is also used on Alphasons and other decks.
Correct. Lids and felt mats were bought in from Linn, so when they changed to clear perspex, so did we. Why? The total development budget for the TT2 was about £3000. At the time, in injection moulding tool for a bespoke lid was about £25,000. QED. Linn had the same problem when they first started, so bought in lids from Lenco, which is why all those UK turntables from the 70s were the same size as a GL75!
A lot of the posts above refer to power supplies and motors. If you want to experiment, this is going to be the most rewarding area.
Thanks for this Shane! The photos look great and the instruction manual will be very handy.
I'm getting excited now and can't wait for it to arrive and start setting it up.
Thanks again
Nathan.
OK, there's a load of assorted TT2 phiotos here: http://www.thepippin.plus.com/TT2/ but note these are of the earlier steel chassis version. From the photo, it looks like yours is likely to be the alloy chassis instead, but apart from the actual chassis itself, they are the same. You'll see what I mean when yours arrives.
A couple of comments on what's been said here so far.
a few things to check:
- make sure the tonearm cable is clipped to the plinth to avoid any foul play with the suspension
- make sure the belt is siting nicely on the belly of the pully to avoid any drag. That is done by a clever combination of tightening and loosening bolts around the motor.
- don't over do the suspension as the plastic grommet are hard to find nowadays
On the link above you/ll find a download of the instruction manual which tells you how to set up the arm cable and belt height. Francois is right to say that the grommets are hard to find (I'd say virtually impossible, myself!), but as long as the suspension nuts are free to turn easily on the bolts they won't be harmed by adjustment. They're actually butyl rubber, not plastic.
- the TT2 is all about "rigid coupling" between cantilever and bearing, the filled plinth almost acting as CLD device
True, but there is a small amount of lossiness deliberately introduced between the arm-board and chassis. Steel chassis had the armboard held on by a single nut, alloy chassis used a nut and a couple of wood-screws. Don't be tempted to "improve" on this.
By the way, I'm sure my last TT2 had a clear lid which looked nicer in my opinion - pretty sure it was the same as the Linn lid which is also used on Alphasons and other decks.
Correct. Lids and felt mats were bought in from Linn, so when they changed to clear perspex, so did we. Why? The total development budget for the TT2 was about £3000. At the time, in injection moulding tool for a bespoke lid was about £25,000. QED. Linn had the same problem when they first started, so bought in lids from Lenco, which is why all those UK turntables from the 70s were the same size as a GL75!
A lot of the posts above refer to power supplies and motors. If you want to experiment, this is going to be the most rewarding area.
Incidentally, there's probably more info on the TT2 on AoS than anywhere else on the net. If you do a search on "Heybrook TT2", you'll find about half a dozen threads of interest.
Incidentally, there's probably more info on the TT2 on AoS than anywhere else on the net. If you do a search on "Heybrook TT2", you'll find about half a dozen threads of interest.
I will do cheers Shane.
[
]
[I]- the TT2 is all about "rigid coupling" between cantilever and bearing, the filled plinth almost acting as CLD device
True, but there is a small amount of lossiness deliberately introduced between the arm-board and chassis. Steel chassis had the armboard held on by a single nut, alloy chassis used a nut and a couple of wood-screws. Don't be tempted to "improve" on this.
tbh I was tempted and bolted the ply armboard on mine to the aluminium subframe (see the steel bolts in the pic):
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp164/mimoser67/_MG_7988_zps55281ee4.jpg (http://s408.photobucket.com/user/mimoser67/media/_MG_7988_zps55281ee4.jpg.html)
I could not say it was detrimental to sound
I suppose that an LVV-arm will rattle in itself and wobble with its counterweight, thus profit from lossiness, a serviced RB250 as in the pic with stainless steel stub and Heavyweight is much more rigid imho. Id really like to hear an alphason HR-100 on my deck, but fear this will be way out of my budget.
;-)
By the way, I'm sure my last TT2 had a clear lid which looked nicer in my opinion - pretty sure it was the same as the Linn lid which is also used on Alphasons and other decks.
By coincidence I have got an "original" and a Linn perspex lid for my TT2. The perspex looks more 21st century, but has less clearance for arms and counterweights. The black counterweight of an RB250 will not fit beneath the lid, an underslung counterweight will and improve transparency of sound drastically.
my 2c
Michael
Congrats to the OP! These are really nice TT's!
Due to lack of space i just sold my last TT2 the other day, but im already missing it!
You can see piccies of my two tts in the previously mentioned thread....
Big thanks to Shane also for answering a lot of silly questions! ;)
Subscribing to this thread!
Regards Mike
freefallrob
06-05-2014, 08:49
What was the reason for selling Rob?
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.
I sold as I was convinced direct drive was the way to go (still am for my price range) however for sentimental reasons I still like the TT2 alot.
Its arrived!
I can only quickly set it up as i need to shoot off to work shortly.
First impressions was very heavy up to my old TT
I connected it to my amp placed the belt on along with the outer ring and matt and fired her up.
Very impressed! It seems the stylus is in very good condition. Not too sure about the string on the tonearm base though? is this correct?
Also the tonearm lift needs fixing but i was thinking just a bit of superglue on this.
Anyway it needs more setting up to do as I'm getting slight distortion from the left channel, Any ideas anyone?
As you can see it does need a some work doing to it but overall i think it's not to bad, I have the lid too but the hinges are missing on the perspex lid. Does anyone know where to buy or does anyone have some spares they would like to sell?
Overall I'm pleased with it, It's going to be an exciting project!
Heres a few pics as i need to shoot off to work.
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg9_zps5788bf82.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg9_zps5788bf82.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg10_zps7d010628.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg10_zps7d010628.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg8_zps9aa14daa.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg8_zps9aa14daa.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg1_zps0a0ad37b.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg1_zps0a0ad37b.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg3_zps6ff828ea.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg3_zps6ff828ea.jpg.html)
hinges are standard Linn replacement parts available at your local dealer or the inet
;-)
Michael
To me the distorsion may be caused by misaligned pickup. It seems very unlikely that the PU should be way back in the tone arm head slots? That would mean a seriously bad drilling of the tonearm plate!
Sure the tone arm plate and arm are a match?
Regards Mike
Yeah, the cart looks like it needs moving forward a fair bit.
Didn't realise that was the cart - looks like a good buy, obviously depending what you paid for it. Looking at ebay gave only a cancelled sale for the deck.
In my opinion, get a clear LP12 lid (and carefully transfer the centre Heybrook sticker over to the new lid) - looks nicer.
I'm sure that lift will glue back on ok too. You might be able to drop the whole lifter out to inspect how it goes together (but don't get caught out by gluing it together and finding it doesn't go back in place without breaking it apart again!)
hinges are standard Linn replacement parts available at your local dealer or the inet
;-)
Michael
Oh nice 1 thanks mimoser, An ebay search has shown up a few. Thanks again.
To me the distorsion may be caused by misaligned pickup. It seems very unlikely that the PU should be way back in the tone arm head slots? That would mean a seriously bad drilling of the tonearm plate!
Sure the tone arm plate and arm are a match?
Regards Mike
I'm not to sure if there a match as i only quickly set it up to test before leaving for work. I'll have a play about either tomorrow or at the weekend to get it rite.
Yeah, the cart looks like it needs moving forward a fair bit.
Didn't realise that was the cart - looks like a good buy, obviously depending what you paid for it. Looking at ebay gave only a cancelled sale for the deck.
In my opinion, get a clear LP12 lid (and carefully transfer the centre Heybrook sticker over to the new lid) - looks nicer.
I'm sure that lift will glue back on ok too. You might be able to drop the whole lifter out to inspect how it goes together (but don't get caught out by gluing it together and finding it doesn't go back in place without breaking it apart again!)
I may have paid a little over the top £247 delivered but i think the cartridge may balance out the price (Hopefully). I was also thinking of a clear lid, These ones are so dark.
I may have paid a little over the top £247 delivered but i think the cartridge may balance out the price (Hopefully). I was also thinking of a clear lid, These ones are so dark.
Yeah, with that cart makes it a very good price. Probably value-wise, £150 for the cart, £110 for the arm, £130 (?) for the deck - rarely a looser when buying secondhand, which is what makes the hobby a good one! Justifiable to all accountants and other halves too (kind of).
But one shouldn't see it only like that of course - what's important is it being a good deck too.
tbh I was tempted and bolted the ply armboard on mine to the aluminium subframe (see the steel bolts in the pic):
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp164/mimoser67/_MG_7988_zps55281ee4.jpg (http://s408.photobucket.com/user/mimoser67/media/_MG_7988_zps55281ee4.jpg.html)
I could not say it was detrimental to sound …
– I suppose that an LVV-arm will rattle in itself and wobble with its counterweight, thus profit from lossiness, a serviced RB250 as in the pic with stainless steel stub and Heavyweight is much more rigid imho. I’d really like to hear an alphason HR-100 on my deck, but fear this will be way out of my budget.
;-)
By coincidence I have got an "original" and a Linn perspex lid for my TT2. The perspex looks more 21st century, but has less clearance for arms and counterweights. The black counterweight of an RB250 will not fit beneath the lid, an underslung counterweight will – and improve transparency of sound drastically.
my 2c
Michael
The Alphason may be outside your budget, but there's a couple of Mission 774s on Ebay at the moment (the original John Bicht version, not the re-badged Jelco), which make a pretty good match for the TT2, having something of the same extreme rigidity of the HR-100. Only problem is that the lift-lower lever fouls the lid in the up position. Didn't quite get that right....
Try slackening off one of the nuts on the arm board to see if it makes any difference.
Its arrived!
I can only quickly set it up as i need to shoot off to work shortly.
First impressions was very heavy up to my old TT
I connected it to my amp placed the belt on along with the outer ring and matt and fired her up.
Very impressed! It seems the stylus is in very good condition. Not too sure about the string on the tonearm base though? is this correct?
Also the tonearm lift needs fixing but i was thinking just a bit of superglue on this.
Anyway it needs more setting up to do as I'm getting slight distortion from the left channel, Any ideas anyone?
As you can see it does need a some work doing to it but overall i think it's not to bad, I have the lid too but the hinges are missing on the perspex lid. Does anyone know where to buy or does anyone have some spares they would like to sell?
Overall I'm pleased with it, It's going to be an exciting project!
Heres a few pics as i need to shoot off to work.
Looks pretty solid to me! Just a few scuffs to clean up. As the others have said, it'll definitely respond to having the cartridge set up properly, and I'm pretty sure that bit of string should be thin mono-filament nylon, and will be adding a bit of lateral friction. Very light fishing line will do the trick, but making loops in the stuff needs good eyesight, nimble fingers and the patience of a saint!
Lid hinges are standard LP12 items, and Linn charge standard astronomical prices for them, but they often come up on Ebay.
The Alphason may be outside your budget, but there's a couple of Mission 774s on Ebay at the moment (the original John Bicht version, not the re-badged Jelco), which make a pretty good match for the TT2, having something of the same extreme rigidity of the HR-100. Only problem is that the lift-lower lever fouls the lid in the up position. Didn't quite get that right....
Try slackening off one of the nuts on the arm board to see if it makes any difference.
Looks pretty solid to me! Just a few scuffs to clean up. As the others have said, it'll definitely respond to having the cartridge set up properly, and I'm pretty sure that bit of string should be thin mono-filament nylon, and will be adding a bit of lateral friction. Very light fishing line will do the trick, but making loops in the stuff needs good eyesight, nimble fingers and the patience of a saint!
Lid hinges are standard LP12 items, and Linn charge standard astronomical prices for them, but they often come up on Ebay.
I think I may go the Rega RB250-300 route but not 100% sure yet.
I've just sent some time re aligning the cartridge with an ortofon protractor, I'm not to sure if this is the rite thing to do but now I seem to have made massive improvements. I also found the cartridge tags were ever so slack, they were basicly just resting on the pins. I've now slightly squeezed them in a bit and they seem to be a much better fit. I think this was also contributing to the distortion from the left.
The string has now been replaced with some 0.15mm fishing line, that was very very frustrating :steam: but I got there in the end.
This is the position of the cartridge now, let me know your thoughts on the position.
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg1_zps3cad8395.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg1_zps3cad8395.jpg.html)
if the mounting distance of the arm is correct …
… the cart should sit more squarely in the headshell.
- try to get the Heybrook protractor from VE: http://www.vinylengine.com/ve_downloads/index.php?heybrook_protractor.pdf
- print it at exactly 100%
- fix a graphite pencil mine with a tesa strip to the front of the cart
and see where you get from there
;-)
Michael
I also found the cartridge tags were ever so slack, they were basicly just resting on the pins. I've now slightly squeezed them in a bit and they seem to be a much better fit. I think this was also contributing to the distortion from the left.
Ah! I was going to suggest that but wasn't sure of myself enough.. Any time I've had distortion like that is when a headshell has been loose or not been removed for years on a deck I've just bought - so a poor contact from the tags is the same thing.
This is the position of the cartridge now, let me know your thoughts on the position.
It would be impossible to say from a piccie actually. But it does seem a little to much twisted as suggested....
I couldn't quite follow mimoser's instructions but i agree with the principle!
Which is: Check pivot to Spindle distance, aquire correct protractor, adjust!
(I recommend you to rent/borrow/buy a Dr Feickert Protractor NextGen, it's very useful!)
Regards Mike
If you are using a "simple" protractor it is easier to judge parallelity by creating a longer edge.
So attaching a pencil lead (0,5 mm) with an adhesive strip to the front of the cart gives you a longer "front of the cart" line.
… not very much better I fear, you could google "Schφn Schablone" or have a look at this pic:
http://new-hifi-classic.de/Gallery/albums/userpics/IMG_2945.JPG
rgds Michael
PS: it is a pencil lead not a pencil mine, which is sometimes fairly difficult to judge from German. I beg pardon …
;-)
I think I may go the Rega RB250-300 route but not 100% sure yet.
That would mean making a new armboard, which isn't too difficult. The original armboards were made from two layers of 9mm birch ply glued and stapled together, with the 4mm mounting bolts inserted into holes in the bottom layer before gluing. As long as you carefully and accurately copy the dimensions and the positions of the bolts you should be OK. The Rega mounting is centred at 223mm from the spindle, so a lot further out than the Linn-type mounting that your arm uses.
I notice that the armboard is sitting nice and square in the plinth, so the suspension setup looks good. The other way to tell is to bounce the suspension with a finger about half-way between the spindle and the arm pivot to make sure that it bounces cleanly up and down without any rotational movement.
let me quote an email I got from Guy Sergeant
"Von: guy […]
Datum: 12. Oktober 2009 12:38:31 MESZ
An: […]
Betreff: TT2 Mk1 Armboard
Hi Michael,
Some drawings attached. The original board was actually 2 pieces of ply stuck together trapping the heads of the two bolts between them. However, there's no reason why you can't drill right through the new board and use allen bolts & washers above the board straight down into the subchassis. *It's up to you.
Once you've made a new board and mounted it, then you can use the chosen arms mounting template to mark out the relevant hole(s) needed to mount that arm.
Just be aware that the position you choose has to allow room at the headshell end of the arm for the lid to close.
I fitted a Rega arm having put a hole at 222mm from the spindle but with the mounting hole in the centre of the armboard. The arm worked perfectly but the headshell was too close to the lid. If I did it again, I'd pick another point on the 222mm arc further back and to the left.
rgs
Guy Sergeant"
the pics came from Guy and show the mounting distances for the MK1 TT2 (long armboard, filled plinth, either welded steel or cast aluminium subchassis)
12352
12353
the armboard I fabricated out of 18mm ply does not sit square in the recess, so either the measurements are a little bit off or I am a bad carpenter …
but it works fine!
;-)
Michael
How often I wish I'd kept hold of the original drawings when I left Heybrook!
Guy's drawing looks right, although I'm a bit puzzled by the 25.4mm dimension. I would have though I drew it originally at 25mm, but It's a long time ago now, so I could be wrong. Again, I wouldn't clamp it down tight with both bolts. We only put a nut on the one nearest the platter; the other one served simply to stop the board from moving.
If your armboard conforms to the drawing but doesn't sit centrally, it could be an issue with the spring positions or the arm lead dressing.
if the mounting distance of the arm is correct
the cart should sit more squarely in the headshell.
- try to get the Heybrook protractor from VE: http://www.vinylengine.com/ve_downloads/index.php?heybrook_protractor.pdf
- print it at exactly 100%
- fix a graphite pencil mine with a tesa strip to the front of the cart
and see where you get from there
;-)
Michael
Thanks Michael, Ive just finished work so i will try this in the morning.
i'm not to sure on what you mean about the pencil though, can you explain in layman's terms please as I'm new to all this.
Many thanks again,
Nathan.
Ah! I was going to suggest that but wasn't sure of myself enough.. Any time I've had distortion like that is when a headshell has been loose or not been removed for years on a deck I've just bought - so a poor contact from the tags is the same thing.
They were really slack, As soon as i adjusted the cartridge the blue and white tags just fell off.
It would be impossible to say from a piccie actually. But it does seem a little to much twisted as suggested....
I couldn't quite follow mimoser's instructions but i agree with the principle!
Which is: Check pivot to Spindle distance, aquire correct protractor, adjust!
(I recommend you to rent/borrow/buy a Dr Feickert Protractor NextGen, it's very useful!)
Regards Mike
That look expensive! I think I'll have to buy a basic 1 to be honest, I'll have a look about,
Thanks for you advice Mike, It's appreciated.
results will be more precise if you elongate the front face of the cart by taping a pencil lead onto it.
I hope it gets easier to understand when looking at pics from the Schφn Schablone manual:
12356
the thick black lien is a pencil lead taped across the front of the cart
unfortunately this is only available in German, as it is a very good protractor around EUR 40,
Michael
It doesn't need to be a pencil lead. Anything long, thin and straight would do, such as a needle.
Ok I've come to the decision to forget about the setting up of the tonearm cartridge for now as I really want to get on with the cosmetic side of things.
Thanks to all who have helped this week it's been very much appreciated and I will be calling back for more assistance on this.
So. Today I've started to strip the TT down. It turns out to be the steel chassis, not to sure if this is considered to be the better of the 2 or not. I also found the arm board nut has been badly rounded off and the bolt is just spinning round in the hole. I placed long nose pillars into the chassis to grip the bolt and had to un screw the nut with mole grips. The springs and rubber caps seem to be in very good condition so quite pleased with that.
I'm planning on rubbing down the top plate, plinth and arm board, masking up and respraying. With the plinth I was thinking Danish oil.
A few pics so far.
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg2_zpsf120e933.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg2_zpsf120e933.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg1_zps0918f7a0.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg1_zps0918f7a0.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg3_zps1cd44e17.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg3_zps1cd44e17.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg5_zps68fe7ed6.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg5_zps68fe7ed6.jpg.html)
There are differing opinions on the two chassis. For myself, I prefer the steel one. It's a bit "bloomier" in the bass but the music has a bit more zip and bounce to it, but the differences aren't as huge as you'd expect. Both weigh about the same and are very stiff, but I suspect that the steel chassis is a little more resonant. Once we'd decided to switch to the alloy chassis, there was no going back due to the tooling costs involved!
Someone's been very unkind to that nut! Is the thread on the stud OK? If so, you could possibly stop it from rotating with judicious use of superglue, but it's a bit of a tricky one to sort out. I suppose that if you're going to re-finish the whole thing anyway you could drill down to the stud from above, replace it that way and fill the hole afterwards. A bit of ingenuity will be needed!
Not sure if it's too late or not, but don't remove the red marker triangles from the chassis. These show you the best rotational position of the springs which should have a corresponding red line drawn on them.
Nice job!
There are differing opinions on the two chassis. For myself, I prefer the steel one. It's a bit "bloomier" in the bass but the music has a bit more zip and bounce to it, but the differences aren't as huge as you'd expect. Both weigh about the same and are very stiff, but I suspect that the steel chassis is a little more resonant. Once we'd decided to switch to the alloy chassis, there was no going back due to the tooling costs involved!
Someone's been very unkind to that nut! Is the thread on the stud OK? If so, you could possibly stop it from rotating with judicious use of superglue, but it's a bit of a tricky one to sort out. I suppose that if you're going to re-finish the whole thing anyway you could drill down to the stud from above, replace it that way and fill the hole afterwards. A bit of ingenuity will be needed!
Not sure if it's too late or not, but don't remove the red marker triangles from the chassis. These show you the best rotational position of the springs which should have a corresponding red line drawn on them.
Nice job!
I'll be honest and say I don't think I'd hear the difference with the chassis anyway, my system isn't great but I'm hoping to build when cash is available.
I think I'm going to try gripping the thread again through the chassis to tighten as the thread seems to be in quite good condition. I don't really want to drill through the board, I personally think it looks better with the bolts hidden.
The red mark are still on the chassis, I'll leave that as it is and just concentrate on the plinth and top plate.
A question for you Shane. Is the top plinth just glued in place? I thought it would be a lot easier to spray if it were away from the plinth.
Thanks Shane!
The plinth is really more of a chassis than a plinth. The heart of it is made up from four layers of 18mm chipboard glued together to form a solid block. The bottom three layers have the cut-out for the chassis machined out of them and the top layer locates the suspension bolts. As such, it's much more that just a box ho hide the innards, the block is an integral part of the whole thing and I can't imagine how you could separate the top plate from the lower layers. The surround is there to make the whole thing look normal and to support the lid, and I suppose if you could un-glue it from the block the whole thing would still work ok. I don't know how you would remove the surround from the block without destroying it in the process though. I've seen a couple of blogs now showing TT2 plinths being restored, and they seem to have got good results by just masking off the veneer. All the edges where veneer meets black are very well defined, so it's not too difficult to get a good finish this way.
The plinth is really more of a chassis than a plinth. The heart of it is made up from four layers of 18mm chipboard glued together to form a solid block. The bottom three layers have the cut-out for the chassis machined out of them and the top layer locates the suspension bolts. As such, it's much more that just a box ho hide the innards, the block is an integral part of the whole thing and I can't imagine how you could separate the top plate from the lower layers. The surround is there to make the whole thing look normal and to support the lid, and I suppose if you could un-glue it from the block the whole thing would still work ok. I don't know how you would remove the surround from the block without destroying it in the process though. I've seen a couple of blogs now showing TT2 plinths being restored, and they seem to have got good results by just masking off the veneer. All the edges where veneer meets black are very well defined, so it's not too difficult to get a good finish this way.
I did think it looked very difficult to separate. I think I will leave as it is and just mask it.
Thanks Shane!
Nearly done sprucing up the plinth/chassis. Top plate has been re sprayed along with the bottom, the wood has been treated with fine paper sanding and 1 coat of Danish oil. Another coat and that would do it.
I'm in the process of building a new armboard as I've decided to go a different route with the tonearm.
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg3_zpsb261481f.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg3_zpsb261481f.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg1_zps8825b34d.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg1_zps8825b34d.jpg.html)
Looking good. Have you decided what arm to use yet?
Looking good. Have you decided what arm to use yet?
I haven't Shane. I was going to ask for recommendations to be honest. I was thinking Rega but if there's others out there that would suit better then i may change my mind.
<recommendation> – get an RB 250 with:
- rewire with correct ground and ground connector at tonearm side -> gets you deep silence in the lead-in groove
- steel stub -> tightens up the bass
- heavyweight or similar dropped counterweight with rigid clamp to stub -> tightens up bass some more
- VTA-Adjuster -> you will need 5-8 mm between Arm and board, might as well do it right
</recommendation>
see my pic earlier in this thread …
my2c
Michael
<recommendation> – get an RB 250 with:
- rewire with correct ground and ground connector at tonearm side -> gets you deep silence in the lead-in groove
- steel stub -> tightens up the bass
- heavyweight or similar dropped counterweight with rigid clamp to stub -> tightens up bass some more
- VTA-Adjuster -> you will need 5-8 mm between Arm and board, might as well do it right
</recommendation>
see my pic earlier in this thread …
my2c
Michael
Cheers Michael ! I'll look into that.
The Rega in all it's variety is good. I had an RB300 for about 25 years, but I've currently got a bit of a thing about the original Mission 774. It's tight and detailed, and gives a really good feel for the texture of the sound. There's a couple on Ebay at the moment, although the bloke with the £350 buy-it-now's being a bit optimistic. The only down-side is that you can't quite shut the TT2 lid with the arm-lift raised. My bad....
The Rega in all it's variety is good. I had an RB300 for about 25 years, but I've currently got a bit of a thing about the original Mission 774. It's tight and detailed, and gives a really good feel for the texture of the sound. There's a couple on Ebay at the moment, although the bloke with the £350 buy-it-now's being a bit optimistic. The only down-side is that you can't quite shut the TT2 lid with the arm-lift raised. My bad....
I was looking at the mission 774 but I think it's really ugly! :hmm:
It grows on you! True, it'll never have the elegance of an early SME or a Transcriptors, but it's an honest bit of well thought-out engineering which give it great appeal for me.
It grows on you! True, it'll never have the elegance of an early SME or a Transcriptors, but it's an honest bit of well thought-out engineering which give it great appeal for me.
It does look like a solid arm I must admit.
Are you using a TT2? What cartridge do you use?
I built myself an alloy-chassis TT2 in 1984 and put the Rega 300 on it, but stopped using it about eight years ago whilst I was fooling around with lumps of ply, slate, idler wheels and Dual direct drive motors ( http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?22221-Homebrew-slate-DD-turntable-for-sale ), and I eventually gave it to my nephew about two years ago. I then got fed up with having home made kit in the sitting room, not having the DIY skills to make it look domestically acceptable, and a really early TT2 came up on Ebay. It's one of the very first batch of 100, so it's totally as I drew it in the first place. I had by then replaced the Rega with a Mayware Formula IV, but when the TT2 arrived I swapped that for the Mission and don't feel inclined to change it again any time soon. The TT2 doesn't quite have the balls of a slate-based direct drive, but it puts the music together so much better. Swapping the Formula IV for the Mission got a lot of the DD solidity back without losing any of the rhythmic bounce that the TT2 had but the DD lacked.
I have a Denon DL304, but it has suspension problems so until I can afford to get Dominic Harper to fettle it I'm using an A&R P77 which will just about do for the moment, but it's a bit bland and boring. Can't wait to hear what the Denon can do in the Mission!
pure sound
11-05-2014, 21:57
I found the Alphason Xenon to be a good match & the SMEV also worked surprisingly well.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh107/pure_sound/P1010189.jpg
The Grand Wazoo
11-05-2014, 22:08
What became of the TT1 then?
I've never seen any reference to such a beast. Did it actually exist?
The Barbarian
12-05-2014, 08:35
'TT1'!.. I remember the very first turntable they made coming out which was the 'TT2', never heard of a 'TT1' unless it was a prototype! I heard there was plans for a 'TT2' shelf/support of some kind but i don't think that ever materialised.. Again Shane is your man to confirm all this..
I've never tried the Alphason myself, but it shares the Mission's characteristics of low to medium mass and extreme rigidity, and lot of people whose opinions I respect thought it was a really good match for the TT2. It's also pretty...
There never was a TT1. The development of the TT2 started before Heybrook existed, so it's predecessors were jerry-built experiments that only existed in my bedroom. Why TT2? Just because it sounded better. I did see an article somewhere from someone who purported to have listened to a Heybrook TT1. Don't know what he was smoking at the time, but it must have been good stuff!
'TT1'!.. I remember the very first turntable they made coming out which was the 'TT2', never heard of a 'TT1' unless it was a prototype! I heard there was plans for a 'TT2' shelf/support of some kind but i don't think that ever materialised.. Again Shane is your man to confirm all this..
All i know is there was two different 'TT2' the later had a different top board very very simular to the Systemdeck '2X2'.. three different suspensions too.
Wish I had the production records here, 'cos I can never remember what happened in what order but the history is basically as follows:
The first ones were produced in 1982, and the biggest change was when the steel chassis was replaced by the alloy one after about (and I'm very hazy on this) about 1000 units. About the first 200 units were produced with platters sprayed black due to blemishes in the castings which took two batches to sort out, and some very early plinths had the top plate made from ply instead of MDF. Just before the change to the alloy chassis, the original rather clunky mains switch like this one ( http://img05.olx.hu/images_aprodhu/19125479_1_644x461_heybrook-tt2-rega-rb300-music-maker-mkiii-gyor-.jpg ) was replaced with the one you have. Again at around the same time Linn introduced the clear lid, and that was the state of play when I left Heybrook in 1984, buy which time about 2000 had been made. The only other changes I know about were the introduction of the TdP-designed power supply, and finally the mark 2 plinth, which I think was a cost-cutting exercise rather than a design improvement. The TT2 was discontinued in the early '90s, by which time I believe around 5000 had been made. We did play around with purpose-built shelves and tables, but it was a pointless exercise as we couldn't bieat Sound Organisation on price for the same thing.
Sorry Andre, missed your comment about the suspension. The alloy chassis weighed the same as the steel one, so no changes were made to the suspension while I was there, and since there were no other mechanical changes, it wouldn't have been changed after I left. Some people reckon that changing to Linn springs improves the turntable, which makes no logical sense. I suspect that they just think that Glasgow Pixies will work a bit of extra magic. A spring's a spring. It's either the right one or it isn't, no matter who made it.
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I was wondering would my SME 3009 be a suitable match? I'd like to keep it to be honest but if it's not going to work then it's going to have to go.
Anyway put the TT2 back together this afternoon. It's not finished yet or setup correctly until I've purchased the tonearm.
Here's a couple of pics.
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg1_zps99d6db0d.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg1_zps99d6db0d.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg1_zpsda49b893.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg1_zpsda49b893.jpg.html)
The Barbarian
12-05-2014, 18:02
I had three different arms on My 'TT2' Logic 'Datum S', Mission '774' {Original} & SME '3009,S2 Imp'.. I still use my SME even today. but back then i prefered the Mission with it..
I had three different arms on My 'TT2' Logic 'Datum S', Mission '774' {Original} & SME '3009,S2 Imp'.. I still use my SME even today. but back then i prefered the Mission with it..
Hmm. I'd like to keep the SME :doh: what to do!!!
[
] The TT2 was discontinued in the early '90s, by which time I believe around 5000 had been made. [
]
mine has Serial No: 3760 with first plinth design, cast alloy subchassis and the armboard says 1986 Sheffield if I am not mistaken.
;-)
Michael
The Barbarian
12-05-2014, 18:56
There was a lot of Specialist Hi-Fi cabinetry made in Sheffield.. I could mention quite a few :eyebrows:
TT2 plinths and armboards, along with the HB2 and HB3 cabinets were all made by Greaves of Sheffield. They were a Victorian business that grew up making canteens for all the Sheffield cutlers. When the cutlery industry declined they diversified into hifi cabinet making, and the quality and finish they achieved were absolutely wonderful. Sadly, they were too good for the modern world and went bust in the late eighties. I suspect that that was what prompted the redesign of the TT2 plinth for the Mk 2.
Loads of people have used the SME on the TT2 with excellent results. As with the Rega, you'll need to make a new arm-board, but at least if you don't like it you can try a Mission, which uses the SME cutout! :)
Looks really good now.
Correction: On second thoughts, the HB2 cabs were made by a cabinet maker owned by Monitor Audio, who's name I forget.
TT2 plinths and armboards, along with the HB2 and HB3 cabinets were all made by Greaves of Sheffield. They were a Victorian business that grew up making canteens for all the Sheffield cutlers. When the cutlery industry declined they diversified into hifi cabinet making, and the quality and finish they achieved were absolutely wonderful. Sadly, they were too good for the modern world and went bust in the late eighties. I suspect that that was what prompted the redesign of the TT2 plinth for the Mk 2.
Loads of people have used the SME on the TT2 with excellent results. As with the Rega, you'll need to make a new arm-board, but at least if you don't like it you can try a Mission, which uses the SME cutout! :)
Looks really good now.
Correction: On second thoughts, the HB2 cabs were made by a cabinet maker owned by Monitor Audio, who's name I forget.
Rite that's it I'm keeping it now. Cheers guys!
pure sound
13-05-2014, 06:12
I still have several unbuilt up Mk1 plinths should anyone need one. I also have springs, mats, the genuine very high quality belts and a few other bits all acquired when the factory closed.
I still have several unbuilt up Mk1 plinths should anyone need one. I also have springs, mats, the genuine very high quality belts and a few other bits all acquired when the factory closed.
I'll take a felt Matt off you please. Mines a little shabby. PM me prices and we will sort something out.
Cheers!
I have a quick question for you all.
How much oil needs to go in the bearing? And have you any recommendations?
I used some W30 bike oil without additives.
how much? enough that the spindle gets stuck in the oilfilm 2cm before bottom position.
It then takes approx 30 min to sink to the bottom of the spindle well weighed down with the outer platter.
do not force it down, the oil takes some time to seep around the spindle and up …
;-)
Michael
The Barbarian
13-05-2014, 17:33
I use J.A.Michell oil from a reputable outlet.
I used some W30 bike oil without additives.
how much? enough that the spindle gets stuck in the oilfilm 2cm before bottom position.
It then takes approx 30 min to sink to the bottom of the spindle well weighed down with the outer platter.
do not force it down, the oil takes some time to seep around the spindle and up
;-)
Michael
Thank you Michael!! :cool:
I use J.A.Michell oil from a reputable outlet.
Thanks Andre :cool:
OK, the shaft diameter is 1cm, there'a 1cmm ball in the bottom, and the shaft is hemispherically ground at the bottom. That means that the empty space at the bottom of the bearing is equal to the volume of a 1cm cylinder 1.5cm high, minus 1.5 times the volume of a 1cm sphere. The volume of a cylinder is pi x r-squared x h, the volume of a sphere is 4/3 x pi x r-cubed. r=0.5. You do the maths... :)
OK, the shaft diameter is 1cm, there'a 1cmm ball in the bottom, and the shaft is hemispherically ground at the bottom. That means that the empty space at the bottom of the bearing is equal to the volume of a 1cm cylinder 1.5cm high, minus 1.5 times the volume of a 1cm sphere. The volume of a cylinder is pi x r-squared x h, the volume of a sphere is 4/3 x pi x r-cubed. r=0.5. You do the maths... :)
:scratch::hmm::doh: cheers Shane.
The Barbarian
13-05-2014, 19:43
Just a few drops then
:lol:
Works out at just over 0.4 ml, so if you put in 0.5ml, that should be about right.
Works out at just over 0.4 ml, so if you put in 0.5ml, that should be about right.
Yeah I came to that amount too! :lies:
The Barbarian
13-05-2014, 20:30
:rfl: a couple of drops will be fine.. Clean the Bearing housing etc first.. i also like to dip a cotton bud in the oil & lighty run it around the inside of the housing first before re fitting the sub platter
:rfl: a couple of drops will be fine.. Clean the Bearing housing etc first.. i also like to dip a cotton bud in the oil & lighty run it around the inside of the housing first before re fitting the sub platter
Good advice, thanks Andre.
pure sound
14-05-2014, 06:59
Re. TT2 mat
I'm away at the munich show until the weekend but will pm prices then.
Rgs
Guy
OK, the shaft diameter is 1cm, there'a 1cmm ball in the bottom, and the shaft is hemispherically ground at the bottom. That means that the empty space at the bottom of the bearing is equal to the volume of a 1cm cylinder 1.5cm high, minus 1.5 times the volume of a 1cm sphere. The volume of a cylinder is pi x r-squared x h, the volume of a sphere is 4/3 x pi x r-cubed. r=0.5. You do the maths... :)
alternatively you take a little bit more than you expect to be needed and wrap tissue paper around the bearing to soak up the surplus.
I admit I am daft, but not dumb
or was it the other way around?
:)
Michael
… alternatively you take a little bit more than you expect to be needed and wrap tissue paper around the bearing to soak up the surplus.
I admit I am daft, but not dumb …
… or was it the other way around?
:)
Michael
I did just that Michael, good job I did as a small amount did spill too!
Ok she's ready to go I think. Spent the weekend polishing the platter rim and fitting the SME 3009 using Mark Grant G1000HD cables.
I'm now ready for a nice new cartridge to finish the job.
Have you any suggestions? I'm thinking in the price range of £150 ish.
He's another photo for you all.
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/imagejpg1_zps9ee27cc2.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/imagejpg1_zps9ee27cc2.jpg.html)
The Barbarian
19-05-2014, 09:11
alternatively you take a little bit more than you expect to be needed and wrap tissue paper around the bearing to soak up the surplus.
I admit I am daft, but not dumb
or was it the other way around?
:)
Michael
This is why i add the oil around the inside of the bearing housing aswell as the bottom as it goes all over if you apply it to the shaft before re-fitting..
The Barbarian
19-05-2014, 09:15
Ok she's ready to go I think. Spent the weekend polishing the platter rim and fitting the SME 3009 using Mark Grant G1000HD cables.
I'm now ready for a nice new cartridge to finish the job.
Have you any suggestions? I'm thinking in the price range of £150 ish.
He's another photo for you all.
Looks good nat, o i see you have exactly the same arm as me 'SII, Improved {Fixed Headshell} You are kinda restricted to High/Highish Compliance Cartridges as it's a low mass arm {9.5grm effective mass}..MC's are out the window..
walpurgis
19-05-2014, 10:08
That looks really nice Nat. The Heybrook is a turntable I've never owned, but heard many good things about. All you need now is a nice ADC 10E Mk.IV cartridge which will suit the arm, sound wonderful and be in period for a complete 'classic' TT package.
Looks good nat, o i see you have exactly the same arm as me 'SII, Improved {Fixed Headshell} You are kinda restricted to High/Highish Compliance Cartridges as it's a low mass arm {9.5grm effective mass}..MC's are out the window..
Thanks Andre, the picture doesn't do it justice to be honest, I took the pic with my iPad.
So what cart are you using at the moment with you 3009?
That looks really nice Nat. The Heybrook is a turntable I've never owned, but heard many good things about. All you need now is a nice ADC 10E Mk.IV cartridge which will suit the arm, sound wonderful and be in period for a complete 'classic' TT package.
Thanks Geoff, I'm pleased with it now, it's a very solidly built TT.
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll look the ADC up.
Cheers!
walpurgis
19-05-2014, 10:25
I've been using ADCs ever since I got into proper Hi-Fi generations ago and still have a few. They are the only non MCs I'd entertain now. My 10E Mk.IV was used alongside a Denon DL-103R for a while and sounded every bit as good. The 103R is gone, but the ADCs are staying, alongside my collection of MCs. The 10E Mk.IV crops up on eBay periodically and is well worth grabbing. If you can't find one, the later XLM III is a goodie too and sounds very similar, it also matches the SME well.
I've been using ADCs ever since I got into proper Hi-Fi generations ago and still have a few. They are the only non MCs I'd entertain now. My 10E Mk.IV was used alongside a Denon DL-103R for a while and sounded every bit as good. The 103R is gone, but the ADCs are staying, alongside my collection of MCs. The 10E Mk.IV crops up on eBay periodically and is well worth grabbing. If you can't find one, the later XLM III is a goodie too and sounds very similar, it also matches the SME well.
Thanks Geoff. Your advice is very much appreciated. There's a XLM III on eBay at the moment so I will keep an eye on it.
Cheers!
The Barbarian
19-05-2014, 18:03
Thanks Andre, the picture doesn't do it justice to be honest, I took the pic with my iPad.
So what cart are you using at the moment with you 3009?
Hi Nat
Im using a Goldring '900IGC'.. The AKG 'P8E/ES' is a good un..
Beautiful job Nathan! Can't wait for your listening impressions.
The Barbarian
19-05-2014, 20:44
Thanks Geoff. Your advice is very much appreciated. There's a XLM III on eBay at the moment so I will keep an eye on it.
Cheers!
Nat
Yes nice cart, i used to have ZLM, a ZLM styli should fit if you can get one..
Beautiful job Nathan! Can't wait for your listening impressions.
Thanks Shane, I'm well pleased with the end results, I have one issue though if anyone can help.
I fitted a new drive belt yesterday, When i turn it on i get a judder which jumps the whole plater and arm. Should i be adding a tiny amount of oil to the motor pulley or may some talc?
Nathan.
Nat
Yes nice cart, i used to have ZLM, a ZLM styli should fit if you can get one..
Thanks Andre, I'll look up your suggestions
Cheers!
Definitely not oil, but talc would be worth a try.
Definitely not oil, but talc would be worth a try.
Ok I'll give it a go.
Thanks for the quick reply.
Definitely not oil, but talc would be worth a try.
Cheers Shane that did the trick.
Hi all.
Just wondered if someone could help or recommend someone to help me.
Ok, I've been a little clumsy with my SME 3009 S2 tonearm :rolleyes: Some how I broke the earth from the end of the RCA convention jacks.
I've attempted so solder it back but now I think I pulled it to hard which in turn has broken the cable inside the arm tube as I have a very bad hum when I touch the head shell
Now I've rewire a Rega RB250 before but this 1 looks a little more complicated to me. Has anyone attempted this arm before??
The Barbarian
27-05-2014, 19:10
The ground wire is only short around 3-4'' long. It attaches to one of the fixing that clamp the knife edge bearing to the arm tube, the other side is attached to the arm base..If it's come off inside the arm im afraid it has to be taken out to be re soldered to the threaded tag..
The ground wire is only short around 3/4'' long. It attaches to one of the fixing that clamp the knife edge bearing to the arm tube, the other side is attached to the arm base..If it's come off inside the arm im afraid it has to be taken out to be re soldered to the threaded tag..
Would that be attached inside the arm tube ?
Would that be attached inside the arm tube ?
To the knife edge bearing I mean. Sounds quite fiddle :scratch:
The Barbarian
27-05-2014, 19:25
Yes the internal {black}ground wire is soldered to a threaded tag, the tag is threaded because one of the fixing that hold the knife edge bearing screws into that tag, creating a ground to arm tube in the process..
Yes the internal {black}ground wire is soldered to a threaded tag, the tag is threaded because one of the fixing that hold the knife edge bearing screws into that tag, creating a ground to arm tube in the process..
Can you suggest where to buy a length, I best get some before I start as it's now to short to solder back in place.
walpurgis
27-05-2014, 20:04
There's a 3009 S2 rebuild here: http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/SME/BK%20SME/SME_3009_Photo_Story.pdf
It may help.
There's a 3009 S2 rebuild here: http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/SME/BK%20SME/SME_3009_Photo_Story.pdf
It may help.
That's brilliant thanks Geoff, I've been looking but couldn't really fine any informative sites.
Thanks again.
It looks as if I have to buy a complete rewire kit! Not unless anyone can tell me where they sell the cables individually.
walpurgis
27-05-2014, 21:42
It looks as if I have to buy a complete rewire kit! Not unless anyone can tell me where they sell the cables individually.
Cardas is nice quality: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cardas-cable-4x-33awg-tonearm-wire-400mm-9-tonearms-SME-LINN-ROKSAN-JELCO-/301168815471?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item461f0f6d6f
The Barbarian
27-05-2014, 23:45
You don't need a full rewiring kit to replace the ground wire & also your S2 Improved is a more simple job than that Series 2 shown.. Surely you can get say 6'' Of black internal wire from someone! But if it's old wire why not.. I used JA.Michell tags o my 3009' my all time fave tags..
I use this wire for all my Tone-arm rewires.. If you ask him for a Green, a Blue, a Red, a White + an addition roll of Black he will provide this, it's what i ask for anyway..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16-feet-stranded-32-AWG-Silver-Teflon-Wire-4-color-Tonearm-white-red-green-blue-/231231820492?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d67d92cc
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Michell-Engineering-silver-plated-cartridge-tags-/321391521136?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ad46d6d70
btw: i use black headshrink instead of the supplied colours for the tags as it looks neater imho & ofc the colour coding is already on the wire..
............................
http://www.analogtubeaudio.de/131-1-rca-conversion-kit.html
:sofa:
She sings again!
Tonearm re wired and new/old ADC XLM mkIII fitted. She's all complete now and sounding excellent. I've just ordered a firebottle phonostage from Alan too! All coming together now.
I have made a slight modification and added RCA outputs to the back as my Mark Grant cables were causing issues with the suspension, I'm sorry if this offends anyone but I really wanted to keep the cables.
Anyway thank you to everyone who has guided me through this project,
I know some of my questions may have been simple ones but hats off to all of you on AoS :clapclapclap:
A few last photos to the TT2!
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/Mobile%20Uploads/46f2fc56-c346-41c1-bb64-694ba10cf95f_zps87edef95.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/46f2fc56-c346-41c1-bb64-694ba10cf95f_zps87edef95.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/Mobile%20Uploads/54d00912-5ea8-47bf-8a1c-9b46a91467de_zps84145832.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/54d00912-5ea8-47bf-8a1c-9b46a91467de_zps84145832.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/Mobile%20Uploads/53bff42d-5a81-49b2-9503-9eada047c9b6_zpse0a9e531.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/53bff42d-5a81-49b2-9503-9eada047c9b6_zpse0a9e531.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/Mobile%20Uploads/6926ea2f-857c-4bbd-ade0-22f80e83b479_zps140feed8.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/6926ea2f-857c-4bbd-ade0-22f80e83b479_zps140feed8.jpg.html)
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo14/nuff3rs/Mobile%20Uploads/5dc932a4-ca6b-4ed4-b2b3-bfc95b8b7a08_zpsc90e42e3.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/nuff3rs/media/Mobile%20Uploads/5dc932a4-ca6b-4ed4-b2b3-bfc95b8b7a08_zpsc90e42e3.jpg.html)
The Barbarian
06-06-2014, 11:56
Hi Nat
So how have you wired the SME to the Phono output sockets on the rear of the deck? Wired the internal wire straight from the SME to the sockets or gone via a tag strip ?
Hi Nat
So what how have you wiring the SME to the Phono output sockets on the rear of the deck? Wired the internal wire straight from the SME to the sockets or gone via a tag strip ?
I soldered straight from the tonearm to the sockets Andre, the mark grant cables are quite thick and heavy and it was stopping the bounce almost straight away no matter how I positioned them to the chassis.
PS: I took your advice and used black heat shrink, looks great!
The Barbarian
06-06-2014, 12:45
Ok thanks. much easier with Phono leads rather than those old original strip connectors isnt it?
On another note. I have a Denon 'DL-110' cart i bought a couple years ago, i know is technically not a match for the '3009, S2 Imp {Fixed} but im gonna give it a go, ive used potential disasters before that have sounded good. but i do like the sound of this cartridge, it's a lot for little outlay imho..
I've done much the same on mine. I re-wired the Mission with Sat-Cure litz wire which I've taken out to a tag strip mounted on the back of the plinth. Arm-lead dressing always was the bugbear of suspended tts.
Ok thanks. much easier with Phono leads rather than those old original strip connectors isnt it?
On another note. I have a Denon 'DL-110' cart i bought a couple years ago, i know is technically not a match for the '3009, S2 Imp {Fixed} but im gonna give it a go, ive used potential disasters before that have sounded good. but i do like the sound of this cartridge, it's a lot for little outlay imho..
So much easier! Let me know how you get on with the Denon Andre.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.