Skill V's Talent?

[Mike]

A bit daft this, but what the hell....

I just had a massive (but VERY silly) argument over what's a 'skill', and what's a talent. My view is (was?);

Talent: Something one is born with.

Skill: Something one learns.

Any comments? :D

[AlanS]

Agreed. Next

[jollyfix]

I also agree.

[Mike]

Excellent!

Oi, Jimbo... Get you some 'o this! <marches off preparing to deliver a mighty cockpunch> :punch:

[walpurgis]

Any comments? :D

No! :)

[twickers]

Excellent!

Oi, Jimbo... Get you some 'o this! <marches off preparing to deliver a mighty cockpunch> :punch:

Am i on the right forum?

P.S. I agree

[Stratmangler]

Do you think any great musician came to be purely because of talent?
No they didn't!
It was 1% talent, and 99% hard work.

You could say that being a musician is a skill :eyebrows:

[StanleyB]

Do you think any great musician came to be purely because of talent?
No they didn't!
It was 1% talent, and 99% hard work.
After seeing my youngest son go through his music lessons and exams, I would question that. He hardly ever plays at home, but will be taking his grade 8 in July. He is only 15.
Jimi Hendrix could swap his guitar from one hand to another whilst continuing to play it. As far as I know nobody else has yet managed to do the same.

[jollyfix]

Some musicians have a natural talent, they learn very quickly with not much effort.

[Stratmangler]

Anecdotal evidence suggests that a big part of Hendrix being as good as he was on guitar was because he had one in his hands most of the time.
He could play left or right handed and his Dad used to go nuts when he saw Jimi playing left handed when he was younger.

I agree that some musicians have a natural aptitude towards playing, but that alone doesn't carry them forward.
The great ones get there with a hell of a lot of hard work too.

[Joe]

I think Hendrix possessed a third distinctive attribute: genius.

[rossman]

A bit daft this, but what the hell....

I just had a massive (but VERY silly) argument over what's a 'skill', and what's a talent. My view is (was?);

Talent: Something one is born with.

Skill: Something one learns.

Any comments? :D

It would be interesting to know what the counter argument was because I don't see how anyone could disagree with your position :scratch:

[Clive]

If we look instead at learning a foreign language there are those born with barriers, ie dylexics - they have "phonological processing issues", these make it harder for 10%+ of the population to break down word sounds into their constituent parts. For a dyslexic to learn a foreign language is hard work and therefore probably a "skill". There are quite a number of non-dyslexics who find it really easy to learn a language so for them it's a "talent", ie an innate ability.

I expect playing a musical instrument is somewhat similar except the roles may be reversed with some dyslexics finding it easier than most non-dyslexics.

[walpurgis]

We seem to be straying towards a debate as to the difference between intelligence and knowledge. One is inherent and one is acquired, but neither is of any use without the other.

[Clive]

We seem to be straying towards a debate as to the difference between intelligence and knowledge. One is inherent and one is acquired, but neither is of any use without the other.
I totally agree it's how the ingredients are mixed. Knowledge relatively is easier to measure. Intelligence has broad/vague and narrow definitions. An IQ test is a very specific and narrow view and even this score is only a view valid at any one time. Doing lot's of IQ tests increases your score but does your intelligence develop? Maybe....someone who is shut away not doing much will "loose" intelligence whereas someone living in a fast paced environment where decisions are needing to be taken quickly and frequently will "gain" intelligence, or so it would seem. Possibly we should think of ourselves as having an intelligence band and our level of mental activity dictates where we are in the band at any point time.

[nat8808]

Anecdotal evidence suggests that a big part of Hendrix being as good as he was on guitar was because he had one in his hands most of the time.
He could play left or right handed and his Dad used to go nuts when he saw Jimi playing left handed when he was younger.

I agree that some musicians have a natural aptitude towards playing, but that alone doesn't carry them forward.
The great ones get there with a hell of a lot of hard work too.

It's never hard work if you're simply doing something you enjoy and are good at - it's simply called playing, or mucking about!

[lurcher]

It's never hard work if you're simply doing something you enjoy and are good at - it's simply called playing, or mucking about!

Perhaps, but it depends on what you are doing. no one, despite huge amounts of natural ability, can make it to playing bebop on any instrument by just playing or mucking about, I dont think in that case (for example, there are others) you can reach the goal without putting in the hours, and the hours have to be directed. Just playing the instrument for years and years will not make you a good player in a form that involves understanding, motor skills and exposure to other players. They may enjoy the learning process, but its not "mucking about"

[The Barbarian]

Im neither skilled or talented

:D

[Macca]

Im neither skilled or talented

:D

Me neither. I've just bullshitted my way through life with a bit of luck thrown in. I suppose that is sort of a skill.

[The Barbarian]

We i get called a W*nkur fairly often so i suppose i go with that

:lol:

[walpurgis]

I've just bullshitted my way through life with a bit of luck thrown in.

We already had you sussed out Martin. :)

[Macca]

We already had you sussed out Martin. :)

Yep totally f*kin transparant, that's me :)

[Stratmangler]

Yep totally f*kin transparant, that's me :)

Who said that?

[Andrei]

Who said that?
Dunno

[Stratmangler]

Dunno

You didn't see him either?

[Joe]

Me neither. I've just bullshitted my way through life with a bit of luck thrown in. I suppose that is sort of a skill.

My only skill is self-deprecation, and I'm not much good at that.

[Stratmangler]

My only skill is self-deprecation, and I'm not much good at that.

:D

[walpurgis]

My only skill is self-deprecation, and I'm not much good at that.

I rely on the Missus to let me know how crap I am at everything! :)

[Mike]

It would be interesting to know what the counter argument was because I don't see how anyone could disagree with your position :scratch:

Well, it went something like this....

Jim: "it's the same thing, talented people are just better at learning".

Mike: "you're a dick"!

(We were actually discussing Marc Marquez's ability in MotoGP)

[keiths]

Without talent, skill will only get you so far.

Thirty-odd years ago, a mate and I started to learn guitar at the same time. We would meet up weekly and learn songs, jam and occasionally go busking. For about a year or so, we progressed at pretty much the same rate. Then all of a sudden, John started to be able to play the odd thing that I couldn't. This carried on, and soon it became obvious that he was a better guitarist than me. He is now a MUCH better player than I am as he has carried on improving, whilst I hit a plateau that, without talent, I've never been able to get beyond.

[istari_knight]

Can't lose what you haven't got http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/duh_zpsfcd0082b.gif ...Talking 'bout myself, of course.

[RMutt]

There is a very good book on this subject by Matthew Syed, the table tennis champion. It is called Bounce and makes a very persuasive case for the argument that we are not born with talent but become talented through practice. It is a very easy read which mixes his own anecdotal evidence with various university studies. It covers sport, music and more. Well worth a read if you are interested.

[Macca]

I think a lot depends on how young you start. Get those four year olds playing snooker now and they will keep you in luxury in your dotage. Forget music no money in that any more. Football is another money spinner I know of a six year old already signed to Liverpool, no bedtime stories for him he gets Shankley's autobiography read to him at night.