Slic Innovations Eclipse C Interconnect Cable

[Ninanina]

Well here we go..... remember be nice to each other :D

I purchased the new SLIC interconnect and it's been in the system for a while now. I have it on a 30 day trial which gives me plenty of time to try it out against my previous cable and another cable a dealer has sent me to try

I am not one that makes instant decisions about any hifi component and the SLIC cable is the same

I would like to hear from people that have also purchased the SLIC cable and let me know what they think of it against their current cable, and to also let us know what their current cable is

I will refrain from giving my final decision until I have made it, and I haven't at the moment decided

Thanks to you all ;)

[Ninanina]

Come on people, don't be shy now ;)

[choirboy]

I've ordered a couple of pairs so when they get here I'll post some thoughts. Hopefully this thread can just about about the product (whether good or bad) and not about personalities like the last one.

[Ninanina]

I've ordered a couple of pairs so when they get here I'll post some thoughts. Hopefully this thread can just about about the product (whether good or bad) and not about personalities like the last one.

Here here... Michael. Lets hope that on this thread everyone is nice to each other and just talk about the cable, good or bad... ;)

[Ninanina]

I had made a couple of comments about the SLIC cable on another thread but this is my latest thoughts:

I did describe the SLIC as "smooth" but I would like to change that to the cable being effortless.... now I am no expert when trying to convey what I hear but I think "effortless" is a good start

It is also quite an addictive listen

It may not necessarily be the most revealing or resolving of cables but it does have a naturalness that other cables maybe do not have

I will update as things go along and my final decision whether I keep the cable or not will also be revealed

:popcorn:

[PaulStewart]

Bev the fact you are up, listening to music at this time suggests that the sound you are getting is addictive :lol:

[Ninanina]

Bev the fact you are up, listening to music at this time suggests that the sound you are getting is addictive :lol:

Hi Paul
There might well be a lot of truth in that statement... :eek:

[CageyH]

I'm interested to find out how it compares to other cables that people are familiar with.
Any chance of some comparative reviews?

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'm a bit confused Bev.
Is this a review thread? If so, it needs to be in 'Strokes of Genius'.
Trouble is that you've already said that you're not going to give your review until the end.
So, it's a review thread without a review. How does that work then?
Why not just start it when you're ready to tell what you think?

....or have I misunderstood you?

[AlanS]

So far this thread has not been about the cable except for possibly one post only #5, the rest is about people.

[Markiii]

would you expect anything less?

[AlanS]

Trying to talk about the cable I remembered that Frank spoke of taking it to a Bakeoff


I took it all to a bakeoff last weekend and it saw off a system costing considerably more with some famous names on the fronts. I seem to recall in my previous tome about this cable that I would equate going from a £1k amp to a £3k amp because the amp hierarchy has to contend with the laws of diminishing returns, but I don't see this cable being saddled with that problem

From this post (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31870-The-quot-MYSTERY-CABLE-quot-revisited&p=541180&highlight=bakeoff#post541180)

If any of those present at the Bakeoff are members perhaps they can make comment here ABOUT THE CABLE

[nat8808]

It's just a thread asking for people's views on the SLIC !

It's not a review thread, it's a "let's talk about what the cable sounds like compared to people's other cables" thread (as Bev stated early on, if not in the OP (too lazy to go back to check). Then Bev said she'd give her opinion's too when they're more solidly formed - are opinions reviews? I don't think so..

Just waiting for those who have it to appear and comment. So best get out the popcorn!

[nat8808]

Bev the fact you are up, listening to music at this time suggests that the sound you are getting is addictive :lol:

What the hell else do people do at that time of night?!

Huh? "Sleep" you say? Wierdo..

2am is the best time to listen IMHO, well late night anyway.. Tues - Thurs is normally taken up with Radio 3's Late Junction from 11pm-12.30am anyway which just gets you in the mood to find some equally tasty sounds.

[The Black Adder]

lol.. well spending £500 on a interconnect would certainly keep me awake :)

[Ali Tait]

It's just a thread asking for people's views on the SLIC !

It's not a review thread, it's a "let's talk about what the cable sounds like compared to people's other cables" thread (as Bev stated early on, if not in the OP (too lazy to go back to check). Then Bev said she'd give her opinion's too when they're more solidly formed - are opinions reviews? I don't think so..

Just waiting for those who have it to appear and comment. So best get out the popcorn!

I'm curious, if a review is not someone's opinion of how something sounds, then what is it?

[julesd68]

I purchased the new SLIC interconnect and it's been in the system for a while now. I have it on a 30 day trial which gives me plenty of time to try it out against my previous cable and another cable a dealer has sent me to try

Bev, could you please let us know what your previous cable is and what the other new cable you are demoing it against?

[cyclopse]

I had made a couple of comments about the SLIC cable on another thread but this is my latest thoughts:

I did describe the SLIC as "smooth" but I would like to change that to the cable being effortless.... now I am no expert when trying to convey what I hear but I think "effortless" is a good start

It is also quite an addictive listen

It may not necessarily be the most revealing or resolving of cables but it does have a naturalness that other cables maybe do not have

I will update as things go along and my final decision whether I keep the cable or not will also be revealed

:popcorn:

Another Slic user surfaces. I have the balanced version;-

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh538/cyclopse14/SLICEclipse.jpg

My observations are slightly different Bev. I am finding time and time again that detail is being revealed that I have never heard before. So my opinion is that they are exceptionally detailed.

[Ninanina]

Another Slic user surfaces. I have the balanced version;-
My observations are slightly different Bev. I am finding time and time again that detail is being revealed that I have never heard before. So my opinion is that they are exceptionally detailed.

Hi Stephen
I'm glad you are enjoying your new SLIC... can you remind us what cables they are replacing? :D ;)

[cyclopse]

They are up against stiff competition in the form of Nordost Valhalla. Several times the cost of SLIC Eclipse!

[Ninanina]

They are up against stiff competition in the form of Nordost Valhalla. Several times the cost of SLIC Eclipse!

I've never heard any Nordost products.. what are your initial thoughts comparing the SLIC to the Valhalla, apart from being revealing?? ;)

[guy]

Trying to talk about the cable I remembered that Frank spoke of taking it to a Bakeoff



From this post (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31870-The-quot-MYSTERY-CABLE-quot-revisited&p=541180&highlight=bakeoff#post541180)

If any of those present at the Bakeoff are members perhaps they can make comment here ABOUT THE CABLE

bump

[Ninanina]

Bev, could you please let us know what your previous cable is and what the other new cable you are demoing it against?

Hi Julian
My other cable, as per my sigi, is a Oyaide Silver cable with Silver WBT's... the new cable is from a supplier that doesn't want me to mention it ;)

[julesd68]

Hi Julian
My other cable, as per my sigi, is a Oyaide Silver cable with Silver WBT's... the new cable is from a supplier that doesn't want me to mention it ;)

Sorry - didn't spot that ... So you are using SLIC throughout the chain, for digi and analogue cables?

And a secret cable - the plot thickens!!

[Ninanina]

Sorry - didn't spot that ... So you are using SLIC throughout the chain, for digi and analogue cables?

And a secret cable - the plot thickens!!

Hi Julian no I am only using the SLIC to replace the RCA Oyaide cable the Oyaide digi is still in the system, I am not made of doshy... :eek:

I am afraid yes the other cable is a bit of a secret because the supplier wants it that way ;)

[Andrei]

Hi Julian no I am only using the SLIC to replace the RCA Oyaide cable the Oyaide digi is still in the system, I am not made of doshy... :eek:

I am afraid yes the other cable is a bit of a secret because the supplier wants it that way ;)

Oh I love secrets! Go on now - let me in on it. I promise not to tell. I really do, I really really do. If you tell me your secret I will tell you one too. Go on, you know you want to!

[Ninanina]

Oh I love secrets! Go on now - let me in on it. I promise not to tell. I really do, I really really do. If you tell me your secret I will tell you one too. Go on, you know you want to!

Nice try Andrei...

But I am afraid I promised the supplier I wouldn't let on.... ;)

But if you still want to tell me a secret I will tell you one too.... :eek:

[Marco]

Hi Bev,

When Frank went down the road of 'secrecy' recently, when offering his thoughts on the Slics, (due to not being given all the necessary info beforehand from the trader selling them), it caused a lot of ill feeling, which I've vowed won't happen again with any products mentioned or reviewed on AoS.

Therefore, I must insist that you either a) tell us who the supplier is and all other relevant details about the cables concerned, or b) refrain from discussing them further until you are in a position to comply with a).

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

[selby]

One thing I simply don't understand with this cable is the cost, actually that is the case for many HiFi products.

I've looked into raw cable costs in the past and even top quality UP-OCC cable, with some expensive plugs, carbon infused sleeving, custom printed shrink wrap wouldn't demand a £500 price. I'm not saying this cable is or isn't the best cable in the world as I haven't listened to a system with it in but personally £500 for a cable which is very much DIY in construction is simply ridiculous.

[cyclopse]

One thing I simply don't understand with this cable is the cost, actually that is the case for many HiFi products.

I've looked into raw cable costs in the past and even top quality UP-OCC cable, with some expensive plugs, carbon infused sleeving, custom printed shrink wrap wouldn't demand a £500 price. I'm not saying this cable is or isn't the best cable in the world as I haven't listened to a system with it in but personally £500 for a cable which is very much DIY in construction is simply ridiculous.

How do you know its diy in construction when you cannot actually see inside. Only way to confirm this is to chop it and examine the cross section.

[selby]

Well any DIY style cable I've seen or even made uses sleeving and shrink wrap band around the RCA, I'm not saying that form of construction is worse than a custom made cable I'm just saying in theory it should cost less to manufacture. The cost of cables in this industry forever amazes and shocks me at the same time.

Unless the physical cable inside this SLIC cable is a true custom manufactured cable and not simply simply some kind of UP-OCC, Belden or other off the shelf cable then the cost is OTT and there are some huge margins involved. Now I'm involved in a number of businesses so I'm not anti profit margins, I am anti silly margins and I do believe in this industry in particular the margins are silly. I'm not always sure this is down to person making the cables/equipment/accessories but due to dealer margins.

There is also the common issue where because people don't believe they are going to sell many products they up the price to compensate, it's a silly way of doing things.

I'm sure this cable sounds great, I'd love to see how it stacks up against a range of other cables at different price points. Before someone says it I'm well aware that there are even more expensive cables out there, my points above cover all of those cables as well.

[AlanS]

Well any DIY style cable I've seen or even made uses sleeving and shrink wrap band around the RCA, I'm not saying that form of construction is worse than a custom made cable I'm just saying in theory it should cost less to manufacture. The cost of cables in this industry forever amazes and shocks me at the same time.

Unless the physical cable inside this SLIC cable is a true custom manufactured cable and not simply simply some kind of UP-OCC, Belden or other off the shelf cable then the cost is OTT and there are some huge margins involved. Now I'm involved in a number of businesses so I'm not anti profit margins, I am anti silly margins and I do believe in this industry in particular the margins are silly. I'm not always sure this is down to person making the cables/equipment/accessories but due to dealer margins.

There is also the common issue where because people don't believe they are going to sell many products they up the price to compensate, it's a silly way of doing things.

I'm sure this cable sounds great, I'd love to see how it stacks up against a range of other cables at different price points. Before someone says it I'm well aware that there are even more expensive cables out there, my points above cover all of those cables as well.

Selby

The cable as in the wire itself is not off the shelf construction. It is according to a patent and in my understanding would require tooling to construct lengths of the actual wire/cable.

This may explain some of the cost involved. Not bought out of stock cable used.

Cheers

[selby]

That makes it a little more understandable. Anyone know what patent number the cable is listed under?

I'd be interested to understand the construction and what's so special about it.

I still find £500 hard to believe or more so stomach.

[AlanS]

That makes it a little more understandable. Anyone know what patent number the cable is listed under?

I'd be interested to understand the construction and what's so special about it.

I still find £500 hard to believe or more so stomach.

Selby

This is one of the several patents. Illustrations towards the end.

https://data.epo.org/publication-server/rest/v1.0/publication-dates/20090107/patents/EP1509932NWB1/document.html

I too have stomach problems though curious if the construction does make a difference in my system with my ears.

Cheers

[nat8808]

Well any DIY style cable I've seen or even made uses sleeving and shrink wrap band around the RCA, I'm not saying that form of construction is worse than a custom made cable I'm just saying in theory it should cost less to manufacture. The cost of cables in this industry forever amazes and shocks me at the same time.

Unless the physical cable inside this SLIC cable is a true custom manufactured cable and not simply simply some kind of UP-OCC, Belden or other off the shelf cable then the cost is OTT and there are some huge margins involved. Now I'm involved in a number of businesses so I'm not anti profit margins, I am anti silly margins and I do believe in this industry in particular the margins are silly. I'm not always sure this is down to person making the cables/equipment/accessories but due to dealer margins.

There is also the common issue where because people don't believe they are going to sell many products they up the price to compensate, it's a silly way of doing things.

I'm sure this cable sounds great, I'd love to see how it stacks up against a range of other cables at different price points. Before someone says it I'm well aware that there are even more expensive cables out there, my points above cover all of those cables as well.

There are a bunch of things at play - customers are willing to pay money towards the sonic ability, no matter what the cable cost to make. If it were a £2 cable which sounded great, as long as all the sellers sold it for £500, people would pay. That's the audiophile world - the standard had been set decades ago, it's how people judge and justify product costs to themselves and so, as a manufacturer, you'd have to be deliberately against that culture to not take advantage of it.

It also makes people take notice and people actually paying that amount for the cable and repeating their custom also gives some evidence of it being good. If lots of people buy the same cable at £2 and it's just as good, audiophiles would dismiss it as people being over enthused by such a cheap price. Therefore if you want some audiophile recognition for sonic accomplishment, some respect, you're required to sell at a high-ish price by the whole culture.

Then there is the thing of someone bothering to make this cable widely available if they're not making much money out of it, the dealers aren't making much money out of it, people investing the time to promote it aren't making any money from it etc etc... If it's cheap, no-one would bother because people, dealers have businesses to run. A worse product which would make them more money will be promoted instead and leave the cheap, amazing cable for others to find somewhere else.. It's business!

So, the way the western world is culturally, capitalism etc, someone will only bother to benefit the world with their sonically superior cable if there's money in it. OK, some people might do it altruistically but those people are few and far between. There is the half-way house of self-distribution on ebay or something, but that way lies obscurity and no possibility of large sales via commercial promotion, magazine reviews etc etc. Oh, and because the market is small, for the money to make sense and motivate people, the price ends up being high.

I agree with you though - I don't buy these cables, I don't buy new. I fell I am fully cable of looking at the patent and making one myself - looks simple construction to me. Edit: Uh??? I fell I am fully cable? :D Feel fully capable I meant!

[icehockeyboy]

Some of the posts mention ultra cheap V expensive, and it reminded me of when I took a pair of £4 ic's in to Sevenoaks in Nottingham.
We did a straight comparison between them and the £500+ Chord Signature cables.

All we did was hide the cable used from the 3 others in the shop and played a number of tracks, changing the cables every so often.

Oddly, everyone present said the £4 were superior to the hi end Chords.

[Ninanina]

Hi Bev,

When Frank went down the road of 'secrecy' recently, when offering his thoughts on the Slics, (due to not being given all the necessary info beforehand from the trader selling them), it caused a lot of ill feeling, which I've vowed won't happen again with any products mentioned or reviewed on AoS.

Therefore, I must insist that you either a) tell us who the supplier is and all other relevant details about the cables concerned, or b) refrain from discussing them further until you are in a position to comply with a).

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Not really my fault the supplier doesn't want me to mention the product but, as I promised, I will not be mentioning it again... I certainly don't want any "ill feeling"

[AlanS]

Trying to talk about the cable I remembered that Frank spoke of taking it to a Bakeoff



From this post (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31870-The-quot-MYSTERY-CABLE-quot-revisited&p=541180&highlight=bakeoff#post541180)

If any of those present at the Bakeoff are members perhaps they can make comment here ABOUT THE CABLE

I've just noticed that Frank has kindly PMed me to let me know that the bakeoff was based around another forum and of low attendance. So no input from that event.

[Marco]

Not really my fault the supplier doesn't want me to mention the product...

Indeed. However, after the last debacle involving cables, where various guessing games were played, we're definitely not going there again! :nono:

So these days it's either spit it out or keep shtum, soz....

Marco.

[Ninanina]

Indeed. However, after the last debacle involving cables, where various guessing games were played, we're definitely not going there again! :nono:

So these days it's either spit it out or keep shtum, soz....

Marco.

Marco I agree totally and I will keep very shtum !!

Why the supplier doesn't want to be mentioned I have no idea but there it is... :confused:

[Ninanina]

For those that are awaiting my final decision on the SLIC cable:

I am really very sorry that I have not been able to give my final thoughts on the cable as yet

I am always the same on any component and the SLIC is no different in this respect... I just take a while to decide on these things...

Sorry if any of you are getting annoyed that I haven't yet given my final thoughts but that's how I am; I never rush into anything, hifi wise ;)

[icehockeyboy]

Have I missed a few posts here?
The supplier asking Bev not to reveal who he is?

I thought it was plain for all to see in Franks OP that it was MCRU?
Am I wrong, or is that a totally different cable we are talking about? :scratch:

[Joe]

Have I missed a few posts here?
The supplier asking Bev not to reveal who he is?

I thought it was plain for all to see in Franks OP that it was MCRU?
Am I wrong, or is that a totally different cable we are talking about? :scratch:

A totally different cable, which Bev is testing against the SLIC (MCRU) and a Mark Grant cable. We should have a definite outcome by Christmas.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Yeah, you missed a bit.
There's a Mystery Cable sure, but there's also a Secret Cable!

[Tim]

Sorry if any of you are getting annoyed that I haven't yet given my final thoughts but that's how I am
Then why start the thread if don't actually have anything constructive to say?

This is in danger of becoming the soap opera thread Mk II and I can't work out if you are deliberately winding people up with this 'show and tell' tease pantomime, or you genuinely don't realise how frustrating it is? Surely it would be better to say nothing until you have gathered your thoughts, especially regarding a subject as volatile as this - can you not see that?

However Frank's opinions about the cable are viewed, at least he gave them and gave them fully, defended them and since then has stuck by them.

This is me being nice too!

[Joe]

Yeah, you missed a bit.
There's a Mystery Cable sure, but there's also a Secret Cable!

It's a cable cabal!

[CageyH]

Is there a secret mystery cable as well?

[Joe]

Is there a secret mystery cable as well?

Yeah. Code name 'Vince'.

[The Grand Wazoo]

No, not yet.
But there will be and after that has been dealt with there will be 3 Prequel Cables

[The Grand Wazoo]

....and then you'll be able to buy the soundtrack.

[Ninanina]

If this is all we are going to get on this new SLIC cable thread then I would suggest, yet again, that it is closed.... it's obvious to me now that maybe it wasn't such a good idea after all if none of you seem capable of being pleasant about it..

If there is a forum mod in view please CLOSE this thread, thanks so much :(

[icehockeyboy]

I sincerely believe I wasn't being unpleasant about it.

But it did confuse me, especially as I thought both threads were about the same cable!

Are they not of a similar price as well?

[CageyH]

I thought that this thread was opened to discuss the cable.
To be honest, I am getting a little fed up with waiting for what people, other than Frank, think about this cable, and I also ponder why this thread was opened when you are not yet ready to give your opinion.

I would be happy if this thread was closed, and then reopened when someone feels ready to comment on how this cable sounds in their system. It's not difficult. Recent experience showed me that when I was trying several different cables to select the one I wanted to keep.

[icehockeyboy]

I thought that this thread was opened to discuss the cable.
To be honest, I am getting a little fed up with waiting for what people, other than Frank, think about this cable, and I also ponder why this thread was opened when you are not yet ready to give your opinion.

I would be happy if this thread was closed, and then reopened when someone feels ready to comment on how this cable sounds in their system. It's not difficult. Recent experience showed me that when I was trying several different cables to select the one I wanted to keep.

You mention Frank and his thoughts on the cable, but other posts say they are different cables?

Now I really AM. Confused!!

[Joe]

You mention Frank and his thoughts on the cable, but other posts say they are different cables?

Now I really AM. Confused!!

Holy Moly!

Right. Frank's Mystery Cable = SLIC sold by MCRU

Bev is trying the SLIC out against a Mark Grant cable and another secret cable which cannot be named.

[CageyH]

I was going by the title of the thread.

[icehockeyboy]

I was going by the title of the thread.

Me too........?

[Joe]

Frpm Bev's first post in the thread:

'I purchased the new SLIC interconnect and it's been in the system for a while now. I have it on a 30 day trial which gives me plenty of time to try it out against my previous cable and another cable a dealer has sent me to try'

The new SLIC interconnect = Frank's mystery cable.

[Ninanina]

Holy Moly!

Right. Frank's Mystery Cable = SLIC sold by MCRU

Bev is trying the SLIC out against a Mark Grant cable and another secret cable which cannot be named.

Joe... you are 100% correct... the SLIC is against some Oyaide silver's with silver WBT's from the wonderful MG and the other cable is from a supplier who wishes to not be mentioned... and that's how I will keep it for them !

However as nobody seems to be able to discuss this matter properly I wish this thread to be closed please.... thanks

Once I decide on the SLIC, or not, I MAY come back and report it.... but how I feel at the moment I just might not bother... :(

[icehockeyboy]

Ah, all clear now.

[Macca]

I propose a solution. The nine bravest members of AoS shall form a Fellowship of The Cable. They will take it in an arduous journey to Mordor where it shall be cast into the lake of fire beneath Mount Doom forever breaking its spell.

Please PM me to volunteer.

[Ninanina]

Please can a mod close this thread...

It's a complete waste of time to continue with it

thanks mod ....

[twickers]

Cautious......My Precious..

[NRG]

Please can a mod close this thread...

It's a complete waste of time to continue with it

thanks mod ....

Oh I dunno it has a car crash in slow motion appeal to it... :D

[istari_knight]

I propose a solution. The nine bravest members of AoS shall form a Fellowship of The Cable. They will take it in an arduous journey to Mordor where it shall be cast into the lake of fire beneath Mount Doom forever breaking its spell.

Please PM me to volunteer.

But who will be the one to bear such a burden ?!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/2692727_zpsc8feee39.jpg

[AlanS]

How about Ninanina ceasing to post anything until and if she has something to say as a verdict. Others discuss the cable?

Ninanina maybe hear from you later. Bye

[Ninanina]

Oh I dunno it has a car crash in slow motion appeal to it... :D

Think you are sooooo clever !!

Just close it as nobody seems capable of holding a reasonable conversation .... useless.... just useless..... you have all embarrassed yourselves big time..!!

[The Grand Wazoo]

OK now.
I don't think there has been any unpleasantness but the tone is begining to alter now. The thread is intended for people to discuss the product, let's leave it for that purpose now shall we?
I won't be closing it - it's here in case anyone chooses to post their thoughts.

[walpurgis]

It would be nice if everybody just lightened up a little. We're here for a bit of fun, entertainment and enlightenment folks. :)

[Ninanina]

OK now.
I don't think there has been any unpleasantness but the tone is begining to alter now. The thread is intended for people to discuss the product, let's leave it for that purpose now shall we?
I won't be closing it - it's here in case anyone chooses to post their thoughts.

Well i'm the person that initiated the thread but will now take NO FURTHER PART OF IT, you can sort it out between the lot of you.... have fun

You have it to yourself.... you sad, sad lot...

:mental::mental::mental::mental:

[twickers]

It would be nice if everybody just lightened up a little. We're here for a bit of fun, entertainment and enlightenment folks. :)

It's been full of fun, entertainment and enlightenment. :)

[AlanS]

If anyone is interested to order a SLIC note MCRUs post earlier that it will be 3-5 days to build and burn in your cable. Perhaps another interested party can be more forth coming than those who currently have some.


they are burnt in prior to dispatch on a Nordost Vidar cable burner, it does i/c's both rca and xlr, speaker cables and tonearm cables,
3-4 days is reputedly equivalent to 100 hours normal burn in time or so I was told.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Well i'm the person that initiated the thread but will now take NO PART OF IT


- it's here in case anyone chooses to post their thoughts.

....about the cable.

So stick to the topic now please.

[The Grand Wazoo]

It's become obvious that the request to keep to the topic has been ignored and so posts have been deleted and the thread has been closed.
Alan, you were way out of order with your last post.

[Marco]

Ok, Alan S, you've been warned on numerous occasions about stirring things up on cable threads, so enough is enough. Enjoy a free holiday for a week.

Istari Knight (James) and NRG (Neal), in future please stay out of threads where you have nothing constructive to add, or next time you'll also be on a week's ban. We operate a zero tolerance policy on trolling.

Bev, you need to chillax a bit and stop inviting this kind of reaction from people (however much you may not realise that's what is happening). Cheers!

Marco.