Abandon Squeezebox or not?

[ruleof72]

A couple weeks ago, right after I took delivery of my new Beresford MKII, one of my two Squeezebox Classics gave up the ghost. I think it got jealous of the new piece of equipment.

Anyway, I'm left with 1 Squeezebox Classic and a WDTV Play (that I picked up cheap to fill in the empty spot). I'm testing out JRiver and like it but Logitech Media Server still works fine. At this point I could go either way, get a new/used Squeezebox (or linux box that I could setup to run LMS like the Cubox-i2 (http://imx.solid-run.com/product/cubox-i2-2/), or ditch/sell my remaining Classic and get a newer streamer.

The Squeezebox ecosystem has it's advantages like gapless playback at a reasonable price and a vibrant community so I want to make sure I make the right decision. My budget isn't huge and that seems like a hindrance to going the non-Squeezebox route, especially if I want true gapless playback.

At this point I think I'm leaning towards keeping the squeezebox-based setup running but any feedback or suggestions/alternatives would be most appreciated. I'd like to make sure I haven't missed anything as far as available options.

[mr sneff]

Depends if you want hi-res playback or not. If not, I'd recommend Sonos.

[slate]

If it happend to me, in this moment, I would get a Raspberry Pi and run piCorePlayer on it.

The combination would be seen as a Squeezebox in the ecosystem and you can get sound from mini Jack, HDMI or feed a USB-DAC.

I would then add a Hifiberry Digi board and you have the option of optical and electrical S/PDIF; this way it would "just" act as a transport to your Bushmaster.

This will actually give you a better Squeezebox than the Classic in terms of feature support (high res, codecs, ...); but no display and not so "nice" looking.

There are some Guys that have added a simple text display, but are they using the same connector? I don't think so but I have not checked.. and then you would really have to DYI a box.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101269-piCorePlayer-£2-LCD

I know that Steen is working on getting the Wolfson Card(S/PDIF out) working in piCorePlayer as well, but it might last a while as it is not as easy as the other boards.
http://liliputing.com/2014/03/raspberry-pi-gets-enhanced-audio-wolfson-card-costs-much-pc.html


http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97803-piCoPlayer-Squeezelite-on-Microcore-linux-An-embedded-OS-in-RAM-with-Squeezelite

https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/home

[Stratmangler]

Depends if you want hi-res playback or not. If not, I'd recommend Sonos.

Does not apply with the Squeezebox Classic.
It plays up to 24/48 files only.
LMS has to resample anything down that's above 24/48, otherwise the Squeezebox Classic.

If I'm not mistaken the Sonos stuff work using their own app which addresses DLNA servers on the network.
They still haven't addressed the question of gapless playback, but this does affect ripped formats differently.
They support files up to 16/44.1, no further, and they don't recommend WAV playback - doubtless down to the lack of widely recognised tags with WAV files.

I have been using Squeezebox myself for quite some time, and I think the LMS server interfacing is superb.
That's what I would miss most moving away from the Squeezebox ecosystem.

[Stratmangler]

If it happend to me, in this moment, I would get a Raspberry Pi and run piCorePlayer on it.

The combination would be seen as a Squeezebox in the ecosystem and you can get sound from mini Jack, HDMI or feed a USB-DAC.

I would then add a Hifiberry Digi board and you have the option of optical and electrical S/PDIF; this way it would "just" act as a transport to your Bushmaster.

This will actually give you a better Squeezebox than the Classic in terms of feature support (high res, codecs, ...); but no display and not so "nice" looking.

There are some Guys that have added a simple text display, but are they using the same connector? I don't think so but I have not checked.. and then you would really have to DYI a box.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101269-piCorePlayer-£2-LCD

I know that Steen is working on getting the Wolfson Card(S/PDIF out) working in piCorePlayer as well, but it might last a while as it is not as easy as the other boards.
http://liliputing.com/2014/03/raspberry-pi-gets-enhanced-audio-wolfson-card-costs-much-pc.html


http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97803-piCoPlayer-Squeezelite-on-Microcore-linux-An-embedded-OS-in-RAM-with-Squeezelite

https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/home

This is really heartening - I haven't been keeping tabs on the community developments, and things look to be healthy.
I still think Logitech shot themselves in the foot by closing down Squeezebox product lines.

[ruleof72]

If it happend to me, in this moment, I would get a Raspberry Pi and run piCorePlayer on it.

The combination would be seen as a Squeezebox in the ecosystem and you can get sound from mini Jack, HDMI or feed a USB-DAC.

I would then add a Hifiberry Digi board and you have the option of optical and electrical S/PDIF; this way it would "just" act as a transport to your Bushmaster.

This will actually give you a better Squeezebox than the Classic in terms of feature support (high res, codecs, ...); but no display and not so "nice" looking.

There are some Guys that have added a simple text display, but are they using the same connector? I don't think so but I have not checked.. and then you would really have to DYI a box.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101269-piCorePlayer-£2-LCD

I know that Steen is working on getting the Wolfson Card(S/PDIF out) working in piCorePlayer as well, but it might last a while as it is not as easy as the other boards.
http://liliputing.com/2014/03/raspberry-pi-gets-enhanced-audio-wolfson-card-costs-much-pc.html


http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97803-piCoPlayer-Squeezelite-on-Microcore-linux-An-embedded-OS-in-RAM-with-Squeezelite

https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/home

Interesting...thanks for this info!

I really do like the Squeezebox ecosystem and the RaspberryPi looks to be a workable solution, as long as it's easy to build, which it looks like it is. The cost with the wifi, power adapter and HiFiberry seems to be just under $100 w/shipping, etc.

Is there anything I'm missing here (except for a case)?

[Krisbee]

If it were me, I wouldn't bother with alternatives, I'd just stick with LMS, which can be run on PC/laptop or ARM based devices, including NAS. I recently did this: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31956-Old-Laptop-New-use

As has been pointed out, you would need to add one of the new audio cards to a RPi, if you went that route, in order to connect to our new Bushmaster. Controlling LMS via smart phone or tablet is a popular choice, a display on RPI, or other box is not necessary.

Have a look at http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31864-HiFiBerry-digi-board and a couple of threads over at hifi wigwam

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?104152-Raspberry-Pi-Revison-2-and-the-Wolfson-Audio-Card

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?104958-IQaudIO-Pi-DAC-24-192-DAC-for-Raspberry-Pi

[slate]

This is really heartening - I haven't been keeping tabs on the community developments, and things look to be healthy.
I still think Logitech shot themselves in the foot by closing down Squeezebox product lines.

I am sure that you are aware of some of the stuff as as I have noticed you posting on the slimdevice forum... a small summary of the last year as I see it:

It was like the community just waited for Logitech to come out and officially declare that it was over; immediately the forum errupted in discussions and since things have been moving.

A lot of it is based around Triodes work with Squeezeelite which gives us the "squeezebox" experience on different hardware/OS http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97766-Announce-Local-Player-plugin-and-Squeezelite-for-Linux-Windows-OSX

So the community discussions ended up choosing Wandboard as the new platform and that spun of some Projects:
- software package http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99395-Community-Squeeze-OS-F19-Release-1

- DAC addon (I2S based); seems that they are ready for a limited beta hardware run... and with "they" I mean John Swensson, Clive and Adrian that have carried this project - page 133 and forward for latest progress (production runs, cabinet, front/back plates...) http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97881-Community-Funded-Squeezebox-Replacement-Would-you-be-interested


And a month ago the communitys first server release: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101237-Logitech-Media-Server-7-8-0-now-available!

Much of the work here is financed by Logitech letting Michael Herger use some of his work time on this... besides the corrections he makes for Logitech in the 7.7.x branch

Michael also found some spare time for some new plugins
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97668-Announce-Smart-Mix-plugin
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?99537-Announce-Music-amp-Artist-Information-plugin

Other plugins:
- HTML 5 based controller for Windows, MAC http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101145-Announcing-LMS-Remote-Controller-App-for-Mac-OS-X

- Windows 8 app http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97998-Windows-8-App

- alternative web gui http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?98186-Announce-Alternative-Web-Interface-(beta)

and off cause Steens piCorePlayer project, which can be compared to the community Projects, especially now that 4-5 different I2S based DACs have appeared from different sources... cheaper and less powerfull yes, but if you just use it as a transport to feed a DAC then sound quality should not be an issue... not dissing any of the add on boards as I have not heard them.

[dave2010]

If it happend to me, in this moment, I would get a Raspberry Pi and run piCorePlayer on it.

The combination would be seen as a Squeezebox in the ecosystem and you can get sound from mini Jack, HDMI or feed a USB-DAC.

I would then add a Hifiberry Digi board and you have the option of optical and electrical S/PDIF; this way it would "just" act as a transport to your Bushmaster.

This will actually give you a better Squeezebox than the Classic in terms of feature support (high res, codecs, ...); but no display and not so "nice" looking.

There are some Guys that have added a simple text display, but are they using the same connector? I don't think so but I have not checked.. and then you would really have to DYI a box.
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?101269-piCorePlayer-£2-LCD

I know that Steen is working on getting the Wolfson Card(S/PDIF out) working in piCorePlayer as well, but it might last a while as it is not as easy as the other boards.
http://liliputing.com/2014/03/raspberry-pi-gets-enhanced-audio-wolfson-card-costs-much-pc.html


http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97803-piCoPlayer-Squeezelite-on-Microcore-linux-An-embedded-OS-in-RAM-with-Squeezelite

https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/homeI'm not sure how good the Raspberry Pi solution would be, but have you seen this - http://www.raspberrypi.org/the-wolfram-language-and-mathematica-on-raspberry-pi-for-free/

Effectively you get $$$s worth of software for not a lot, even if it does run slowly. Presumably this only applies to fairly recent versions.

[slate]

Interesting...thanks for this info!

I really do like the Squeezebox ecosystem and the RaspberryPi looks to be a workable solution, as long as it's easy to build, which it looks like it is. The cost with the wifi, power adapter and HiFiberry seems to be just under $100 w/shipping, etc.

Is there anything I'm missing here (except for a case)?

A week ago there was a post with a shopping list from another US Citizen and his experience
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?97803-piCoPlayer-Squeezelite-on-Microcore-linux-An-embedded-OS-in-RAM-with-Squeezelite&p=776822&viewfull=1#post776822

I do want to add some comments to that:
- if you want to use wifi and you do not have an adapter at hand to try out; buy one that Works for others as it sometimes is a bit of hit & miss with linux

- powersupply; originally Raspberry Pi was constructed to be able to reuse old phone adapters (microUSB, 5V/0,7A), but experience has shown that it has to be a good one. As ApesBrain states the recommendation is now microUSB, 5V/1A

- if you go for the HifiBerry board I have no recommendations in regards to a case as height might be an issue for existing Pi cases... I just had a look at http://www.hifiberry.com/guides/gallery-of-hifiberry-users-creations/

I can see that one have used one of the simple open Pi cases where you can prolong the "legs" if needed example this http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ENQJ43Q/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1X0KX3K1RNERL&coliid=I3FV87P3FW3KB1

Anyway just avoid a metal box if you are using wifi :)

[ruleof72]

Thanks for the additional info and links everyone!

I took some time to explore a little bit on the links to Wandaboard and RaspberriPi and I'd like some clarification/suggestions as it relates to the the options of building a new Squeezebox replacement given the constraints below:

1. I will be running Logitech Media Server on a Windows 7 desktop.
2. Files are all FLAC and almost exclusively 16/44 at this point though I might try some hires stuff in future
2. All files will be streamed wirelessly to the players.
3. Output from players will be to external DACS vis S/P DIF
4. I can change the oil in my car and build computers but I'm not much for soldering so the less of that the better.

Based on my limited research so far it seems like the Wandaboard based solution might be easiest from the standpoint that it already comes with the S/P DIF so no soldering needed. Is there anything else that I should be aware of re: hardware/software availability, etc?

[AlfaGTV]

If I'm not mistaken the Sonos stuff work using their own app which addresses DLNA servers on the network.
They still haven't addressed the question of gapless playback, but this does affect ripped formats differently.
They support files up to 16/44.1, no further, and they don't recommend WAV playback - doubtless down to the lack of widely recognised tags with WAV files.


Strat, Sonos supports 48Khz samplerate just like the SB Classic. (It does not support 24bit word lengts though) And it works/sounds fabulous with uncompressed audio, like AIFF. Besides, it humiliates a SB Classic soundwise when used as a transport... At least it did i my system, much to my Squeezebox using friends horror! ;)
The Touch sounded WAY better though and sounded on par with the Sonos, however a little different.
I personally preferred the Sonos, but differences were small.

And for stability and performance soundwise id chose Sonos every day of the year.
If support for higher rez files is a must i'd go for a Bluesound Node (Unless you require Spotify support)
Sounds very nice and seems reasonably stabile and easy to setup/handle.

/Mike

[Krisbee]

Thanks for the additional info and links everyone!

I took some time to explore a little bit on the links to Wandaboard and RaspberriPi and I'd like some clarification/suggestions as it relates to the the options of building a new Squeezebox replacement given the constraints below:

1. I will be running Logitech Media Server on a Windows 7 desktop.
2. Files are all FLAC and almost exclusively 16/44 at this point though I might try some hires stuff in future
2. All files will be streamed wirelessly to the players.
3. Output from players will be to external DACS vis S/P DIF
4. I can change the oil in my car and build computers but I'm not much for soldering so the less of that the better.

Based on my limited research so far it seems like the Wandaboard based solution might be easiest from the standpoint that it already comes with the S/P DIF so no soldering needed. Is there anything else that I should be aware of re: hardware/software availability, etc?

First thing, forget S/PDIF on the Wandboard. Two reasons, the Wandboard Dual has it wired incorrectly, and there's no stock of WB Quads.

If soldering's not your thing, that leaves you with an RPi + Wolfson Aduio card as a possibility. With the CPU load reduced and less stress on the combined USB/Network bus when using this audio card, streaming wirelessly to the RPI should be OK. But as has already beeen said, pick your USB Wifi dongle for the RPi carefully.

One other board that may be of interest is the Cubietruck, you get SATA and SPDIF that works.

[ruleof72]

First thing, forget S/PDIF on the Wandboard. Two reasons, the Wandboard Dual has it wired incorrectly, and there's no stock of WB Quads.

If soldering's not your thing, that leaves you with an RPi + Wolfson Aduio card as a possibility. With the CPU load reduced and less stress on the combined USB/Network bus when using this audio card, streaming wirelessly to the RPI should be OK. But as has already beeen said, pick your USB Wifi dongle for the RPi carefully.

One other board that may be of interest is the Cubietruck, you get SATA and SPDIF that works.

Cubietruck? Never heard of it but took a quick look at cubieboard.org and it is very interesting. There's no documentation (at least that I could find) on configuring it for Logitech Media Server. Is there any specific info on that somewhere?

[slate]

It is correct that the HifiBerry boards requires soldering but it is only the connectors... no SMD stuff

http://www.hifiberry.com/products/dac/soldering-hifiberry/

[Stratmangler]

And for stability and performance soundwise id chose Sonos every day of the year

I agree with your comments about the Touch sounding loads better than the Classic - that's why I've had a Classic sat here powered off for a few years now. I must get round to listing it for sale ...
The bit about stability intrigues me - my server and Squeezebox Touches (we have two on the network here) haven't missed a beat. Stability has never been an issue for me, and that's all you can ever hope for.

[ruleof72]

I agree with your comments about the Touch sounding loads better than the Classic - that's why I've had a Classic sat here powered off for a few years now. I must get round to listing it for sale ...
The bit about stability intrigues me - my server and Squeezebox Touches (we have two on the network here) haven't missed a beat. Stability has never been an issue for me, and that's all you can ever hope for.

When you say the Touch sounds better than the Classic you're referring to using the internal DAC's, not outputting the signal to an outboard DAC right?

[Stratmangler]

When you say the Touch sounds better than the Classic you're referring to using the internal DAC's, not outputting the signal to an outboard DAC right?

It's a far better transport than the Classic ever was.
The sound from the stereo analogue outputs is better than the Classic too.

Of the two Touches here, the one I listen to most is feeding an external DAC, and it does a better job than the Classic it replaced.

[Krisbee]

Cubietruck? Never heard of it but took a quick look at cubieboard.org and it is very interesting. There's no documentation (at least that I could find) on configuring it for Logitech Media Server. Is there any specific info on that somewhere?

Do you mean using the Cubietruck as your media server, or just as networked player connecting to LMS on your desktop? I'm not aware of images that have been specifically created for this task as they have for the RPi. But if you start from a Debian based image you should be able to install LMS and/or squeezelite on it without a problem. The quickest route would be to use a pre-built image, say one of those listed on the cubieforums:

http://www.cubieforums.com/index.php?board=32.0

The "wheezy server" or "cubieez" images look like good starting points. Otherwise there's cubian : http://cubian.org/tutorials/

It so happens the "Community Squeeze" project is begining to look beyond the Wandboard, and the Cubietruck has attracted their attention.

[ruleof72]

Do you mean using the Cubietruck as your media server, or just as networked player connecting to LMS on your desktop? I'm not aware of images that have been specifically created for this task as they have for the RPi. But if you start from a Debian based image you should be able to install LMS and/or squeezelite on it without a problem. The quickest route would be to use a pre-built image, say one of those listed on the cubieforums:

http://www.cubieforums.com/index.php?board=32.0

The "wheezy server" or "cubieez" images look like good starting points. Otherwise there's cubian : http://cubian.org/tutorials/

It so happens the "Community Squeeze" project is begining to look beyond the Wandboard, and the Cubietruck has attracted their attention.

I would be using it as a player only, not a server. I guess that might be a little easier to set up. One other "box" I've come across is the SolidRun CuBox-i2. Apparently it's easy to install squeezelite on it and get it to stream music.

[ruleof72]

Do you mean using the Cubietruck as your media server, or just as networked player connecting to LMS on your desktop? I'm not aware of images that have been specifically created for this task as they have for the RPi. But if you start from a Debian based image you should be able to install LMS and/or squeezelite on it without a problem. The quickest route would be to use a pre-built image, say one of those listed on the cubieforums:

http://www.cubieforums.com/index.php?board=32.0

The "wheezy server" or "cubieez" images look like good starting points. Otherwise there's cubian : http://cubian.org/tutorials/

It so happens the "Community Squeeze" project is begining to look beyond the Wandboard, and the Cubietruck has attracted their attention.

Just wanted to update this thread and say that I ordered a Cubietruck today and should get it within the next week or two. I also investigated the Community Squeeze project and it looks like they are hard at work on rolling out a version for the Cubietruck. They have a beta image that seems to work fine so hopefully there will be an "actual" image very soon. I will update here once I have either succeeded or failed miserably in my attempt to turn a Cubietruck into a squeezebox.

[Krisbee]

Well, I hesitated to mention the existence of CSOS beta image for the Cubietruck as it is just that - Beta with no support.

I don't have a Cubietruck, but it's possible to boot the images using QEMU which emulates a sub-set of the type of hardware found on the Cubietruck and other ARM boards, and do some testing. In order to administer the Cubietruck remotely from your Windows 7 desktop you can use putty to make a ssh connection to get to the Cubietruck command line, and once a vncserver is running on the Cubietruck, use a vncviewer to view the Cubietruck desktop remotely.


Anyway, these screenshots should wet your appetite:

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t526/squeezetop/cubietruck-CSOS/putty1_zps167c7d5f.png (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/squeezetop/media/cubietruck-CSOS/putty1_zps167c7d5f.png.html)

[Krisbee]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t526/squeezetop/cubietruck-CSOS/putty2_zps33aa4edf.png (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/squeezetop/media/cubietruck-CSOS/putty2_zps33aa4edf.png.html)

[Krisbee]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t526/squeezetop/cubietruck-CSOS/putty3_zpsab824fce.png (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/squeezetop/media/cubietruck-CSOS/putty3_zpsab824fce.png.html)

[Krisbee]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t526/squeezetop/cubietruck-CSOS/vnc1_zps382b7fb6.png (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/squeezetop/media/cubietruck-CSOS/vnc1_zps382b7fb6.png.html)

[Krisbee]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t526/squeezetop/cubietruck-CSOS/vnc2_zps59450eb4.png (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/squeezetop/media/cubietruck-CSOS/vnc2_zps59450eb4.png.html)

[Krisbee]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t526/squeezetop/cubietruck-CSOS/vnc3_zps053824d9.png (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/squeezetop/media/cubietruck-CSOS/vnc3_zps053824d9.png.html)

[Krisbee]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t526/squeezetop/cubietruck-CSOS/lms1_zpsce2b6ecc.png (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/squeezetop/media/cubietruck-CSOS/lms1_zpsce2b6ecc.png.html)

[Krisbee]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t526/squeezetop/cubietruck-CSOS/lms2_zpsde6bd2a5.png (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/squeezetop/media/cubietruck-CSOS/lms2_zpsde6bd2a5.png.html)

[Krisbee]

For the record, in the screenshots Windows 7 is running in VirtualBox and the beta image CSOS-Cubietruck-F20-BETA2-20140422-1.img is runningl in QEMU, all in a Linux environment.

The Cubietruck ip is 192.168.0.204 in my example and a vncserver has been sarted on the cubietruck with these commands:



sudo systemctl enable vncserver@:10.service
sudo systemctl start vncserver@:10.service


The in-built vncserver on the CSOS image has a password of "fedora" as does the user fedora. The vncviewer is pointed to "<cubietruck ip>:5910" , the vnc port is 5900+10. The vnc connection is insecure, but Ok for an internal Lan behind a domestic router firewall. For the paranoid use ssh forwarding.